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Does it get any better? Finished Baldur's Gate

I've just defeated Sarevok and finished Baldur's Gate 1 and now I'm playing Siege of Dragonspear. The graphics look way better and the new enemies are amazing, I don't understand why the expansion got bad reviews.

I was wondering if these graphics, new enemies and items are used in Baldur's Gate 2? It would be disappointing to play it and everything seems downgraded.

GrumlolienAerakar
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Comments

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Casters said:

    I was wondering if these graphics, new enemies and items are used in Baldur's Gate 2? It would be disappointing to play it and everything seems downgraded.

    Many of the enemy types used in SoD also appear in BG2, but not all. (Several of them are borrowed from Icewind Dale rather than BG2.)

    All of the generic items in SoD also appear in BG2 (IIRC). A few of the unique items in SoD can be carried forward into BG2 (by having them in inventory at the end of SoD), but a majority of unique items are SoD-only. However, BG2 has loads of its own unique items - far more than BG1.

    As already implied, the graphics of BG2 are more like those of BG1.

    OrlonKronsteen
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 509
    I can't recommend BG2 enough. It's got cool enemies (tombs full of undead? Dragons? Yes please!), tons of treasure, countless quests and gorgeous aesthetics. It's fun to play at higher levels where you get powerful new items to play with and an assortment of new spells. It opens up a whole new level of tactical combat.

    Also, if you're really attached to your SOD gear, there's a mod that carries a lot more of it over to BG2 (the mod also includes a number of install-able components that add and/or enhance already existing BG2 items).

    JuliusBorisovJoenSoStummvonBordwehrsemiticgod
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    edited January 2017
    BG2 is crap.

    But I don't want to start a holy war over it. If you can tell decent writing from purple prose, sandbox from linear, spartan from Monty Haul, then you'll feel the difference between the first game and the sequel. If not, then not. Hey, maybe you like it when there are... what was it, two or three dragons to kill in BG2?

    In my opinion, the first Baldur's Gate and Torment were the only games true to the spirit of AD&D. The first Icewind Dale might have been, it had a robust scaffold, but the designers locked themselves in a linear narrative, oversaturated with action. And everything after that - repetitions.

    Same with Fallout. The series died after part 2. RIP.

    Same with Elder Scrolls. The series died after Morrowind. RIP.

    RaduzielGaelicVigilConjurerDragonSharGuidesMyHand
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 966
    chimeric said:


    Same with Fallout. The series died after part 2. RIP.

    you take that back. new vegas is just as good.

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMageUnionhackredline
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,030
    bg2 has dramatically better area graphics than bg1. sod looks more modern and more colourful but bg2 areas are still miles ahead of bg1, look way less dated, so you'll be fine. the difference is stylistic and technical but aesthetically sod and bg2 are close for me, while bg1 is considerably more humble (not to say it's ugly cuz it's not)

    lolienAerakarStummvonBordwehr
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 2,514
    chimeric said:

    BG2 is crap.

    But I don't want to start a holy war over it. If you can tell decent writing from purple prose, sandbox from linear, spartan from Monty Haul, then you'll feel the difference between the first game and the sequel. If not, then not. Hey, maybe you like it when there are... what was it, two or three dragons to kill in BG2?

    In my opinion, the first Baldur's Gate and Torment were the only games true to the spirit of AD&D. The first Icewind Dale might have been, it had a robust scaffold, but the designers locked themselves in a linear narrative, oversaturated with action. And everything after that - repetitions.

    Same with Fallout. The series died after part 2. RIP.

    Same with Elder Scrolls. The series died after Morrowind. RIP.

    Needed to double check if this post wasn't mine.

    Anyway: +1

    GaelicVigil
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,911
    JoenSo said:

    Even though the graphics of BG2 are more similar to BG1 I think it has a very different style to it. The architecture, the look and atmosphere of dungeons and all that. Which I think makes it look very different from BG1.

    I noticed this recently when I went through into the Temple of Umberlee on Brynnlaw. It's the same map/graphics as the temple in the first game and seems ... different from other places in BG2

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 5,222
    I kinda want an example of purple prose in Baldur's Gate 2.

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,834
    deltago said:

    I kinda want an example of purple prose in Baldur's Gate 2.

    Anything Irenicus says.

    Culminating in the speech at the Tree of Life.


    semiticgod
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 5,616

    deltago said:

    I kinda want an example of purple prose in Baldur's Gate 2.

    Anything Irenicus says.

    Culminating in the speech at the Tree of Life.


    He doesn't say anything particularly elaborate though.

    StummvonBordwehrShapiroKeatsDarkMagesemiticgod
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 5,616
    tbone1 said:

    deltago said:

    I kinda want an example of purple prose in Baldur's Gate 2.

    No, you'll get no villain's exposition from me.
    Irenicus has read the overlord's list.

  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 368
    Casters said:

    I don't understand why the expansion got bad reviews.

    Three reasons:

    1. There was a bit of controversy involving some topics that will not be named.
    2. A lot of people are eternally upset at Beamdog that they update a 20 year old game and charge money for their work.
    3. The game railroads you pretty hard.

    Personally I liked it well enough. They did some amazing work as far as the mass battles, the areas looked pretty darn good, and there's an elevator fight at the end which surprised me because that level of background animation for a 2d game hasn't been seen for a long time. On the other hand, the fan generated resources are somewhat lacking, to the point I don't think Gamefaqs has a guide up, there are like 2 or three clickbait sites with poor information, and 1 very detailed blog that covers just about everything, but has formatting issues and is also hosted on a clickbait website. To top it off, the level cap leaves something to be desired in as much that because BG2 is designed to pick up after BG1, you spend a LOT of time in SoD to get the amount of XP you would get in a quarter of the time in BG2. Magic Item selection also felt pretty bland. Some of the new NPCs are awesome. Love M'khiin.

    The problem is #1 killed a lot of potential for organic hype in other gaming communities because no one can discuss it without the whole thing degenerating in to vitriolic mud slinging, and retro-gaming boards tend to have rather draconian entry rules... I mean discussion rules.

    semiticgodsarevok57
  • AlkaluropsAlkalurops Member Posts: 268
    Bigfish said:

    2. A lot of people are eternally upset at Beamdog that they update a 20 year old game and charge money for their work.

    BG1:EE and BG2:EE didn't get the type of reviews SOD got. And nobody has to buy beamdog's games, the old games are still on GOG last time I checked.
    Bigfish said:

    3. The game railroads you pretty hard.

    So does Throne of Bhaal. And while many rightfully say ToB is the worst game in the series, it never got the type of reviews SoD got. Not even close.
    Bigfish said:

    1. There was a bit of controversy involving some topics that will not be named.

    This is pretty much all it is. People who have never even touched the series and just liked a flame war.
    Now mind you, I think there are good reasons to criticize SoD. There was a railroad and some decisions were made for the player that really didn't need to be made (i.e. the party composition). It also got a bumpy release. But the player reviews were uncalled for IMO.

    semiticgodUnionhack
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,834
    @Alkalurops

    "Now mind you, I think there are good reasons to criticize SoD. There was a railroad and some decisions were made for the player that really didn't need to be made (i.e. the party composition). It also got a bumpy release. But the player reviews were uncalled for IMO."

    Haven't you just contradicted yourself?

    There are good reasons to criticise SOD, so what should players do?
    Not review one aspect they found dissappointing because there is another aspect that, if you like, "trouble makers" have made an issue of?

    I's well worth playing, some parts are very good.
    But I find I can't face playing it again because of what's wrong, so as before, I jump from BG to BG2.

    That's quite a fail when you consider that the groundwork for what had to be created was so strong. The idea that because this was an add on to a well established and much loved and respected saga made it more difficult is nonsense.
    Any company launching a product would give their eyeteeth to have so much freely available market research about what customers wanted and liked before they started creating a new product.
    They have not been expected to invent the wheel, that was already done. I think we just wanted more wheels.
    Instead the decision was taken to interfere with the existing parts that people liked. And ignore the almost universal criticism of one particular part and make the same mistake.

    In other words, TOB is disliked for being so railroaded, that's not news.
    So why on earth do the same with SOD?

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 966
    the real difference is. tob barley has any side content so the rail roading is more noticeable. sod has all of chapter 10.

    Unionhack
  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 368

    the real difference is. tob barley has any side content so the rail roading is more noticeable. sod has all of chapter 10.

    Eh, chapter 10 was mostly running errands at the flaming fist camp, running errands at the crusader camp, and a whole bunch of really cool stuff at the underground river, which was on the railroad.

    But it's not just a matter of side content, it's the difference between the player regularly getting jumped by assassins and bounty hunters in Baldur's Gate and being able to decide how hard you react to that, versus having one group attack you at the Ducal Palace and going along like a slack jawed idiot because Corwin tells you "Caelar Argent totally sent them." At least ToB had the excuse that your destiny was forcing itself upon you. SoD feels like you've been drafted.

    But that's one shortcoming of an otherwise pretty ok game.

    Artona
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 5,616
    "SoD feels like you've been drafted." You HAVE been drafeted. Its war and you are a big name player now.

    semiticgodUnionhackStummvonBordwehr
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 782
    ThacoBell said:

    "SoD feels like you've been drafted." You HAVE been drafeted. Its war and you are a big name player now.

    That's the in-universe justification and it does make sense, but it doesn't magically make it more enjoyable for the player. It also limits the range of possible characterizations for Charname even more strictly than BG2 already does.

    Of course if you're a player who enjoys linearity (and linearity itself isn't a bad thing, fundamentally) you're less likely to be bothered by that. But for someone who likes BG1 for its relative freedom? It's incredibly frustrating to be treated like an enlisted soldier and not being able to do anything about it.

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,834
    ThacoBell said:

    "SoD feels like you've been drafted." You HAVE been drafeted. Its war and you are a big name player now.

    But not enough of a "big name player" to be able to change anything?


    Whenever SOD is discussed, "in-universe justification" (thanks Korona for that useful phrase) is used as an argument against people saying they are not enjoying or haven't enjoyed the game enough.

    It's worth buying definitely, I would have supported it whatever, paid full price ect.

    But it is part of a saga, a saga that for some (many? who knows) has you thinking about your new game/Charname as you finish the current game you are playing.

    As I said previously, SOD just hasn't achieved that, so I skip it.
    The sad part (IMO) is that it could have because all the information needed to achieve that is out there and available. And there are parts of SOD that show that would have been possible.

  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 368
    I need to play through SoD doing more kicking and screaming next time, just to see how railroady things get, since last time I went along just to see what was going on. The thing about being drafted is that you can refuse if you're prepared to deal with what the authorities will do to you in response. Charname is strong enough at that point to say "forget this whole thing, I'm going to go party in Beregost", and the dukes would have little they could do without inviting the wrath of the guy/gal who just saved the city.

    I think the thing is BG and BGII were very much about not telling you who you are. I mean you have your parentage, which no one can really do anything about in fiction or life, but there was very little sense of "you are so-and-so and have obligations to fulfil!" Excepting of course the ones you got in to yourself but which you could also abandon at your leisure, such as the strongholds.

    BelgarathMTHAerakar
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