@JuliusBorisov As you can see, very detailed manual how HP, THAC0, saving throws, weapon proficiencies, attacks per rounds etc progress depending TNO class combination are extremely needed. I hope that everything from PSTEE mechanics will be explained.
First point I've gave into INT, and then 3 points in CHA. So I still need to give 5 points in CHA and 1 point in INT (to have base 25 INT, 25 WIS and 25 CHA at the end of game) and then I can give points in CON (at least 11). After leaving Montuary first think I did was conversation with O (+1 WIS), and grind little bit on thugs to make money and I bought 3 tattoos (+4 WIS).
I'm still not sure what advantages I have from levelling first in fighter ( @JuliusBorisov I'm still waiting for extended manual), but until level 9 it isn't a big deal.
I've invested 2 proficiencies points in Blades (Porfiron was the teacher) and I have still 4 unassigned proficiencies points. I need to give 3 more points in blades (but first I must meet next teacher - Korur), so I have at least 1 spare point.
So my question is in what weapon proficiencies I should invest (beside blades)? I know that mages can only use blades but what weapon are most useful when I'm fighter? Axes? Hammers? Mauls? Fists (here I have 1 proficiency from the game start)?
Best fighter weapon is the same as thief weapon - fists. While hammers are pretty stunning (punpunpun) they get outclassed in the 2nd half of the game. A viable choice for a fighter though. Get the one from Lady's Maze first. You can't specialize in weapons above 3* unless you are specialized fighter (4*) or double specialized fighter (5*). As a mage spend your points on whatever you like.
1. So you mean if I'm 13th level fighter, but double specialized mage (inactive) I can only give 3 points in blades? 2. So axes and mauls are lame and there is no point to invest in them?
1) Well, that's what I wrote, didn't I? 2) Pretty much, by mauls I take it you mean clubs? Those are poop, only ok ones are for thief. And it's 12th level for a second spec. Not 13th.
@Queegon The Death of Desire Club (from the Dustmen Vault) is actually a great weapon that you can get very early (after finding Soego). Though it's limited to Dustmen Fighters, it deals 3-13 Damage and has a 40% chance to Stun for 1 round with no Save.
Well then you could cease to be something else and stay a Dustman last. But if you're going for Fighter > Mage, it doesn't matter much anyway since you'll end up using Daggers.
To answer to @Hadar question, leveling up first as a Fighter as the benefit of giving you d10 HP rolls, and quick access to great THAC0 plus additional 1/2 attacks (level 7 and 13).
1. I'm not native speaker so I'm just assuring that I understand you right. 2. I'm interested in secondary proficiency for my secondary class (fighter) when I'm levelling up. 3. I know that second specialisation is at 12th level, I just wrote an example with 13th level warrior.
I won't stay Dustman long. I don't know if I become Dustman at all, because I want extremely lawful character (never lie).
I know that my primary weapons will be daggers, But when I'm levelling in fighter class in which weapons (and why) I should invest).
d10 rolls TNO have regardless of class. I think (I'm not sure) that if I level first with fighter I get better THAC0, Saving Throws, Attacks per Round and more Weapon Proficiencies. But I still wait for detailed manual which @JuliusBorisov wrote that should be this week.
@Hadar Yes, it all depends on when you will level up to 13. I myself farmed Black Abishais (worth 7000 XP) in the Northwestern area of the Hive (with the long house in the center where you can sleep) to reach that level. I did not bother using anything else than a Bone Dagger since I was upping my Strength to 21 anyway.
As far as I know, being a Dustman doesn't affect your alignment in any way. It all depends on your answers in conversations still and on your actions (killing random citizens makes you Chaotic Evil pretty quickly as I discovered). What you could do is that: stay a Dustman and use their club until you change your class to Mage. Or, if you want to experience the other factions as soon as you can, do that first and finish by joining the Dustmen. In the meantime, you'd use the Club of Piercing (2-12 + 1 Damage) that you find in the Rats Tomb.
If for any reason that doesn't suit you, you could either invest your points in Hammers for the Hammer of Comminution (5-20 + 1 Damage) that you can buy in the Cleric's Ward or in Fists like @Queegon suggested for the Punch Daggers of Zar 'Anun (3-12 + 4 Damage; + 2 AC; +35% Stealth) given by the Thief trainer Lenny in the Lower Ward.
As for the HP rolls, no, TNO doesn't roll d10 for other classes. It's d4 for Mage and d6 for Thief.
Yes, as I said, as a Fighter you get better THAC0:
You don't get strictly better ST (each class has favored ST types), but I don't think ST are really important at that point. As I said, you get +1/2 Attacks per Round at level 7 and 13. And yes, more Proficiency points too (1 each 3 levels):
@Abel but when I was 6 lvl fighter (inactive) abd 6 lvl mage (active) and I advanced to 7 level mage, I got 10 hit points (I also have option "Max HP on level up" on)...
I myself farmed Black Abishais (worth 7000 XP) in the Northwestern area of the Hive (with the long house in the center where you can sleep) to reach that level. I did not bother using anything else than a Bone Dagger since I was upping my Strength to 21 anyway.
I actually did exactly the same (you don't have to sleep to make Black Abishais respawn, just go in and out the house). The one difference maybe was that I made Black Abishais attack TNO, but run him away and kill Black Abishais with Morte and Dak'kon.
If for any reason that doesn't suit you, you could either invest your points in Hammers for the Hammer of Comminution (5-20 + 1 Damage) that you can buy in the Cleric's Ward or in Fists like @Queegon suggested for the Punch Daggers of Zar 'Anun (3-12 + 4 Damage; + 2 AC; +35% Stealth) given by the Thief trainer Lenny in the Lower Ward.
If I remember I also should get a quite decent hammer after leaving Players Maze...
@Hadar So you got more HP leveling up as a Mage? It's weird and it doesn't work like this in my game. I leveled up straight to Fighter 13, but I see you want Mage specializations. I deemed the extra Attack that 5 proficiency points in Daggers give better. But then, I wanted my character to be more combat oriented. So, given your aim, yes I think your plan is the best. I would just add this: 12-13 Fighter; 13+ Mage.
As for the Abishais, I'm playing solo on maximum difficulty so they would usually kill me in the lower levels or would take almost all my HP, hence why I would rest between each killing.
About Emoric, yes you're right but you don't have to lie about it (just don't tell).
No idea about this Hammer. I think the one I talked about or the one you can buy at the Godsmen Vault would be the best ones before the end-game weapons.
@Abel 1. I get 10 HP per level of any class (but if I'm 6 level fighter, then I get only 1 HP for 2-6 mage levels each). I've got "Max HP on level up" option enabled. 2. So I've should stop leveling fighter at level 13? I thought about 17-20, but I don't know if I will time to grind so much. 3. I play on maximum difficulty but always full party. :P Black Abishai can even give my TNO 40 damage per shot. 4. Ok, I will see. 5. I got it - it's Brimstone Hammer - http://torment.wikia.com/wiki/Brimstone_Hammer
I'm playing a Mage TNO and I'm still very much at an early stage so I'd like to join the optimizing/powergaming fray
So far I've reached level 4 as a Fighter, then switched to Mage and reached level 4.
I'm currently undecided whether to start grinding Fighter levels up to level 12 to be able to get Grand Mastery and enjoy the extra APR (as well as 3 extra HP), or just keep going as a Mage and call it a day (I don't deem it worth it to grind Fighter levels just for the extra THAC0.)
The thing is that the double Mage specialization enables you to buy this spiffy tattoo from Fell's parlor:
Tattoo of the Magi
+3 to Intelligence.
Doubles all 1st level spells.
Doubles all 2nd level spells.
Usable only by Mages.
which is quite a bit better for a Mage, imho, than this is for a Fighter:
Tattoo of the Supreme Warrior
+3 to Armor Class.
+3 to Strength.
+9 to Base Hit Points.
Usable only by Fighters.
Don't get me wrong—both are pretty good but doubling all 1st- and 2nd-level spells is WAY good as the main issue with Mages is running out of spells.
In terms of equipment, I was thinking:
Bracelet: Intestinal Phylactery (+9 HP; +2 AC)
Earring: Amber Earring (+2 AC; +1 spell of 1st and 2nd level) / Stinger Earring (+2 AC; +2 AC vs. Piercing)
Eye: Caleidoscopic Eye (+1 ST; +1 ST vs Spell; +5% Magic Resistance)
Ring 1: Deionarra's Wedding Ring (later: Ring Zero)*
Ring 2: Aegis of Torment (later: Ring of Thex)
* Not sure I want to grind until I get Ring Zero and, if I got it, I might keep Deionarra's Wedding Ring on TNO as I play full party and nobody else could wear it.
Tattoo 1: Tattoo of the Magi / Tattoo of the Supreme Warrior
Tattoo 2: Tattoo of the Redeemer (+2 WIS would be wasted but +1 Luck is too good to pass)
Tattoo 3: Tattoo of Sensation
Weapon: Mage: ? Ravel's Fingernail*
Fighter: Punch Daggers of Shar (later Umei Kaihen)
I think the Punch Daggers of Shar are better than the Punch Daggers of Zar'anun if you're not a Thief.
* Would love Celestial Fire but that would prevent me from getting the Tattoo of the Redeemer; also I doubt it would look as good on TNO as it does on Trias.
STATS:
Current:
STR 9
DEX 12
CON 9
INT 16
WIS 19 [18 starting; +1 from O]
CHA 12
Based on Dan Simpson's guide, bonuses from playing the game would put me at:
STR 11 [both +1 come late; could be more from Vhailor]
DEX 13
CON 12
INT 18
WIS 25
CHA 15
Adding specialization and equipment:
MAGE
STR 11
DEX 13
CON 12
INT 25 [+3 specialization; +3 tattoo; +3 Ring Zero—will be 24 without Ring Zero]
WIS 25
CHA 16 [+1 tattoo]
FIGHTER
STR 16 [+2 specialization; +3 tattoo]
DEX 13
CON 13 [+1 specialization]
INT 21
WIS 25
CHA 16 [+1 tattoo]
Even if I went the Fighter route, I could consider INT/WIS/CHA enough as 16 passes most checks and IIRC the highest INT check is 21 and the highest WIS check is 24. CHA has a check at 24 for Nordom which could be reached via multiple casts of the Friends spell.
So I could concentrate on maxing physical stats (in order: CON, DEX, STR.)
AC bonuses from equipment:
+2 Earring
+2 Phylactery
+4 Ring of Thex / +3 Aegis of Torment
+3 Deionarra's Wedding Ring
---
+11 / +10
You can get another +7 from maxing DEX and another +1 from Qui-Shai for a total of +19 / +18 (or AC -9 / -8)
@AndreaColombo We've pretty much thought about the same things!
I gave much thought to the Specialization too. Since I'm now leveling up as a Mage (after reaching level 13 as a Fighter), I can't use the Tattoos for Specialized Fighters and I don't have access to the Mage ones. I deemed it indeed more important to have more fighting capabilities than spell casting ones. Which is also why, unlike you, I'm not too concerned about running out of spells.
Also, not being able to use these Tattoos isn't such a loss, because I can still use those, already powerful, that give +2 to Statistics.
With that in mind and after finding out what should be the optimal scores in each Statistics (see there), I decided to go for these starting scores:
STR 16 DEX 9 CON 9 INT 12 WIS 18 CHA 11
Now, this is how I allocate the points gained by leveling up:
LVL STAT SCORE OTHER 4 WIS 19 5 STR 17 6 STR 18 7 STR 20 +1 SPEC. 8 STR 21 9 INT 13 10 INT 14 11 DEX 10 12 DEX 11 13 DEX 12 14 DEX 14 +1 QUEST 15 DEX 15 16 DEX 16 17 DEX 17 18 DEX 18 19 DEX 19 20 DEX 20 21 DEX 21 22 DEX 24 +2 QUEST 23 CON 13 +2 QUEST +1 SPEC. 24 CON 14 25 CON 15 26 CON 16 27 CON 17 28 CON 18 29 CON 19 30 CON 20 31 CON 21
As you can, see there's a big emphasis on physical Statistics but it's only because I don't over increase the intellectual ones. Since I only need a score of 16 in each of them and that I have room for three Tattoos that give them +2, a base score of 14 is enough.
As a reminder (taken and reformatted from this excellent guide), that's where you get additional points (the 'QUEST' bit in the previous table):
Mortuary, Starting Level HP +1 Smoldering Corpse Tavern WIS +1 Drowned Nations, Tomb CON +1 Lower Ward CHR +2 Mortuary, after Dead Nations DEX +1 Clerk's Ward HP +3 Clerk's Ward, Brothel CHR +1 Clerk's Ward, Vrischika's Shop CON +1 Clerk's Ward, Festhall AC +1 Godsmen Foundry WIS +1 Ravel's Maze WIS +1 Ravel's Maze INT +1 Ravel's Maze HP +3 Ravel's Maze WIS +2 Curst Prison STR +3 Curst Prison DMG +3 Carceri Warehouse STA +2 Fortress of Regrets WIS +1 Fortress of Regrets INT +1 Fortress of Regrets STR +1 Fortress of Regrets CON +1 Fortress of Regrets WIS +1
You get +3 to Charisma very early in the game, which is why I think a starting score of 11 is enough. The first point is used to increase Wisdom to 19. Why is that, considering you should gain +7 throughout the game? It's because there's an item you can use later, the Gordian Knot which gives a permanent +2 to Charisma for a -1 in Wisdom.
After using the item, I would remove the +2 to Charisma Tattoo and trade it for a Tattoo of Warding (+1 AC). Intelligence would increase in Ravel's Maze and stay at 17 until Carceri and the killing of Trias to get (with Celestial Fire) the Tattoo of the Betrayer (+1 INT/STR) which would replace the one that gives +2 to Intelligence.
When you get to the Fortress of Regrets, any increase is just cherry on cake, they don't matter much. I would just use an additional Tattoo of Warding instead of the Tattoo of the Betrayer upon Intelligence and Strength increase.
Now, back to the first table and the spending of points you earn by leveling. I focus on Dexterity before Constitution, mainly because regeneration is just a convenience thing. You can steal infinite Heart Charms so there's no true need of it. Also, Constitution is a worthless Statistics if you consider dialogs Statistics checks. On the other hand, high enough Dexterity gives you precious AC points. So it's only natural that it would get increased to 24 for the maximum AC benefit.
So, our choices regarding Statistics differ a bit. I really never go over 16 for Intelligence and Charisma and only increase them temporarily if necessary. I also put more emphasis on Strength which is absolutely necessary given that I play a more melee oriented solo character on maximum difficulty.
Regarding your choice of items, I completely agree and would pick the same except for the Earring which would be a Stinger Earring (+2 AC; +2 AC vs. Piercing Attacks) for the same reasons. About the Punch Daggers of Shar, I'm not to sure how useful would be its bonuses given the low damage they do.
Hi, this was posted many moons ago and might be useful to plan your stat progression.
Highest Checks.
CON: 21 (Paranoid Incarnation - next highest is 12) STR: 21 (Paranoid Incarnation - next highest is 17, but only occurs if you are a fighter at the time; next highest for any class is 16) INT: 21 (no checks above 19 until after Carceri) WIS: 24 (Transcendent One - next highest is 22) CHA: 25 (Nordom - Vhailor and TTO are only other checks above 18) DEX: 19 (Nabat in Curst)
If these check out, that can tell you where you can stop increasing for certain stats.
The Nameless One is Different from your other Characters Your character is different from the other characters in your party. He’s immortal, that’s one big difference. Another is the way that he gains hit points and spells. The Nameless One starts the game as a third level warrior and a first level thief and mage. The Nameless One only gets experience in the class he is currently a member of — he switches classes by talking to people in the game. Furthermore, he cannot access any of the other classes’ abilities when he is specializing in one of the classes. The Nameless One only gains hit points when he gains a level in a class that’s higher than the maximum level he’s achieved in any of his other classes. For example, he starts off as a level three fighter and a level one mage and thief. When he gains enough experience to become a second level mage he won’t get any more hit points because his mage level (two) is still lower or equal to his fighter level (three). When the Nameless One gains an experience level higher than three, then he’ll start to accrue more hit points (always 1-10 hit points per level).
and if I understand it correctly TNO should get 10 HP (with Max HP on level option on) on level without any level cap.
I guess the original manual failed to mention that, in 2nd edition, classes stop gaining hit dice at a certain level. That last sentence surely is misleading. It only applies to fighter levels up to level 9, and only if TNO gains that fighter level before gaining the level in other classes.
@Queegon As it is right now, Fighters still recieve 10HP + Con modifers even after level 9! So TNO, Morte, Nordom and Vhailor can get lots of HP at higher levels. I used the console commands to try it, and Morte has about 800 HP at lvl 127, and TNO about 1700 HP as a lvl 127 Fighter, and get +2 HP for every Mage/Thief lvl added to that ridiculous number.
They should however have more HP than those numbers, i guess the HPs recieved, gets capped when you level up to much, and too fast. Also, iv'e noticed that TNO and Annah sometimes receive less thief points then they should have. As an example, when you train as a thief for the first time you only recieve 20 thief Points (when you should recieve 40 Points+20/per level), and if you try using the console commands, sometimes you only get about 6-12 thief points at a level up. From level 12-16 i only recieved 36 Points, which i suspect is a bug? Anyone else noticed this?
@karl_maulder I don't know what you tried, but that is wrong. The current EE version, same as release, gives 3 HP at level 10 fighter.
Unless you, for whatever reason, talk about non-EE version where it indeed worked that way. But that one didn't have a console. :P Anyway, something shady going on.
Comments
STR: 9
DEX: 9
CON: 9
INT: 18
WIS: 18
CHA: 12
I've progressed
fighter: 3-6
mage: 1-7
fighter: 7
First point I've gave into INT, and then 3 points in CHA. So I still need to give 5 points in CHA and 1 point in INT (to have base 25 INT, 25 WIS and 25 CHA at the end of game) and then I can give points in CON (at least 11). After leaving Montuary first think I did was conversation with O (+1 WIS), and grind little bit on thugs to make money and I bought 3 tattoos (+4 WIS).
I'm still not sure what advantages I have from levelling first in fighter ( @JuliusBorisov I'm still waiting for extended manual), but until level 9 it isn't a big deal.
I've invested 2 proficiencies points in Blades (Porfiron was the teacher) and I have still 4 unassigned proficiencies points. I need to give 3 more points in blades (but first I must meet next teacher - Korur), so I have at least 1 spare point.
So my question is in what weapon proficiencies I should invest (beside blades)? I know that mages can only use blades but what weapon are most useful when I'm fighter? Axes? Hammers? Mauls? Fists (here I have 1 proficiency from the game start)?
You can't specialize in weapons above 3* unless you are specialized fighter (4*) or double specialized fighter (5*). As a mage spend your points on whatever you like.
1. So you mean if I'm 13th level fighter, but double specialized mage (inactive) I can only give 3 points in blades?
2. So axes and mauls are lame and there is no point to invest in them?
2) Pretty much, by mauls I take it you mean clubs? Those are poop, only ok ones are for thief.
And it's 12th level for a second spec. Not 13th.
But if you're going for Fighter > Mage, it doesn't matter much anyway since you'll end up using Daggers.
To answer to @Hadar question, leveling up first as a Fighter as the benefit of giving you d10 HP rolls, and quick access to great THAC0 plus additional 1/2 attacks (level 7 and 13).
1. I'm not native speaker so I'm just assuring that I understand you right.
2. I'm interested in secondary proficiency for my secondary class (fighter) when I'm levelling up.
3. I know that second specialisation is at 12th level, I just wrote an example with 13th level warrior.
@Abel
I won't stay Dustman long. I don't know if I become Dustman at all, because I want extremely lawful character (never lie).
I know that my primary weapons will be daggers, But when I'm levelling in fighter class in which weapons (and why) I should invest).
d10 rolls TNO have regardless of class. I think (I'm not sure) that if I level first with fighter I get better THAC0, Saving Throws, Attacks per Round and more Weapon Proficiencies. But I still wait for detailed manual which @JuliusBorisov wrote that should be this week.
As far as I know, being a Dustman doesn't affect your alignment in any way. It all depends on your answers in conversations still and on your actions (killing random citizens makes you Chaotic Evil pretty quickly as I discovered).
What you could do is that: stay a Dustman and use their club until you change your class to Mage. Or, if you want to experience the other factions as soon as you can, do that first and finish by joining the Dustmen. In the meantime, you'd use the Club of Piercing (2-12 + 1 Damage) that you find in the Rats Tomb.
If for any reason that doesn't suit you, you could either invest your points in Hammers for the Hammer of Comminution (5-20 + 1 Damage) that you can buy in the Cleric's Ward or in Fists like @Queegon suggested for the Punch Daggers of Zar 'Anun (3-12 + 4 Damage; + 2 AC; +35% Stealth) given by the Thief trainer Lenny in the Lower Ward.
As for the HP rolls, no, TNO doesn't roll d10 for other classes. It's d4 for Mage and d6 for Thief.
Yes, as I said, as a Fighter you get better THAC0: You don't get strictly better ST (each class has favored ST types), but I don't think ST are really important at that point. As I said, you get +1/2 Attacks per Round at level 7 and 13. And yes, more Proficiency points too (1 each 3 levels):
3-6 fighter
1-7 mage
7-11 fighter
8-12 mage
And I'm not sure how long I should grind fighter class to become more powerful mage.... I actually did exactly the same (you don't have to sleep to make Black Abishais respawn, just go in and out the house). The one difference maybe was that I made Black Abishais attack TNO, but run him away and kill Black Abishais with Morte and Dak'kon. I'm not sure now, but if I remember if I tell Emoric that I'm immortal then I can't join Dustman. If I remember I also should get a quite decent hammer after leaving Players Maze...
I leveled up straight to Fighter 13, but I see you want Mage specializations. I deemed the extra Attack that 5 proficiency points in Daggers give better. But then, I wanted my character to be more combat oriented. So, given your aim, yes I think your plan is the best. I would just add this: 12-13 Fighter; 13+ Mage.
As for the Abishais, I'm playing solo on maximum difficulty so they would usually kill me in the lower levels or would take almost all my HP, hence why I would rest between each killing.
About Emoric, yes you're right but you don't have to lie about it (just don't tell).
No idea about this Hammer. I think the one I talked about or the one you can buy at the Godsmen Vault would be the best ones before the end-game weapons.
1. I get 10 HP per level of any class (but if I'm 6 level fighter, then I get only 1 HP for 2-6 mage levels each). I've got "Max HP on level up" option enabled.
2. So I've should stop leveling fighter at level 13? I thought about 17-20, but I don't know if I will time to grind so much.
3. I play on maximum difficulty but always full party. :P Black Abishai can even give my TNO 40 damage per shot.
4. Ok, I will see.
5. I got it - it's Brimstone Hammer - http://torment.wikia.com/wiki/Brimstone_Hammer
So far I've reached level 4 as a Fighter, then switched to Mage and reached level 4.
I'm currently undecided whether to start grinding Fighter levels up to level 12 to be able to get Grand Mastery and enjoy the extra APR (as well as 3 extra HP), or just keep going as a Mage and call it a day (I don't deem it worth it to grind Fighter levels just for the extra THAC0.)
The thing is that the double Mage specialization enables you to buy this spiffy tattoo from Fell's parlor:
Tattoo of the Magi +3 to Intelligence. Doubles all 1st level spells. Doubles all 2nd level spells. Usable only by Mages.which is quite a bit better for a Mage, imho, than this is for a Fighter:
Tattoo of the Supreme Warrior +3 to Armor Class. +3 to Strength. +9 to Base Hit Points. Usable only by Fighters.Don't get me wrong—both are pretty good but doubling all 1st- and 2nd-level spells is WAY good as the main issue with Mages is running out of spells.
In terms of equipment, I was thinking:
Bracelet: Intestinal Phylactery (+9 HP; +2 AC)
Earring: Amber Earring (+2 AC; +1 spell of 1st and 2nd level) / Stinger Earring (+2 AC; +2 AC vs. Piercing)
Eye: Caleidoscopic Eye (+1 ST; +1 ST vs Spell; +5% Magic Resistance)
Ring 1: Deionarra's Wedding Ring (later: Ring Zero)*
Ring 2: Aegis of Torment (later: Ring of Thex)
* Not sure I want to grind until I get Ring Zero and, if I got it, I might keep Deionarra's Wedding Ring on TNO as I play full party and nobody else could wear it.
Tattoo 1: Tattoo of the Magi / Tattoo of the Supreme Warrior
Tattoo 2: Tattoo of the Redeemer (+2 WIS would be wasted but +1 Luck is too good to pass)
Tattoo 3: Tattoo of Sensation
Weapon:
Mage: ? Ravel's Fingernail*
Fighter: Punch Daggers of Shar (later Umei Kaihen)
I think the Punch Daggers of Shar are better than the Punch Daggers of Zar'anun if you're not a Thief.
* Would love Celestial Fire but that would prevent me from getting the Tattoo of the Redeemer; also I doubt it would look as good on TNO as it does on Trias.
STATS:
Current:
STR 9 DEX 12 CON 9 INT 16 WIS 19 [18 starting; +1 from O] CHA 12Based on Dan Simpson's guide, bonuses from playing the game would put me at:
STR 11 [both +1 come late; could be more from Vhailor] DEX 13 CON 12 INT 18 WIS 25 CHA 15Adding specialization and equipment:
MAGE STR 11 DEX 13 CON 12 INT 25 [+3 specialization; +3 tattoo; +3 Ring Zero—will be 24 without Ring Zero] WIS 25 CHA 16 [+1 tattoo] FIGHTER STR 16 [+2 specialization; +3 tattoo] DEX 13 CON 13 [+1 specialization] INT 21 WIS 25 CHA 16 [+1 tattoo]Even if I went the Fighter route, I could consider INT/WIS/CHA enough as 16 passes most checks and IIRC the highest INT check is 21 and the highest WIS check is 24. CHA has a check at 24 for Nordom which could be reached via multiple casts of the Friends spell.
So I could concentrate on maxing physical stats (in order: CON, DEX, STR.)
AC bonuses from equipment:
+2 Earring +2 Phylactery +4 Ring of Thex / +3 Aegis of Torment +3 Deionarra's Wedding Ring --- +11 / +10You can get another +7 from maxing DEX and another +1 from Qui-Shai for a total of +19 / +18 (or AC -9 / -8)
I gave much thought to the Specialization too. Since I'm now leveling up as a Mage (after reaching level 13 as a Fighter), I can't use the Tattoos for Specialized Fighters and I don't have access to the Mage ones. I deemed it indeed more important to have more fighting capabilities than spell casting ones.
Which is also why, unlike you, I'm not too concerned about running out of spells.
Also, not being able to use these Tattoos isn't such a loss, because I can still use those, already powerful, that give +2 to Statistics.
With that in mind and after finding out what should be the optimal scores in each Statistics (see there), I decided to go for these starting scores: Now, this is how I allocate the points gained by leveling up: As you can, see there's a big emphasis on physical Statistics but it's only because I don't over increase the intellectual ones. Since I only need a score of 16 in each of them and that I have room for three Tattoos that give them +2, a base score of 14 is enough.
As a reminder (taken and reformatted from this excellent guide), that's where you get additional points (the 'QUEST' bit in the previous table): You get +3 to Charisma very early in the game, which is why I think a starting score of 11 is enough. The first point is used to increase Wisdom to 19. Why is that, considering you should gain +7 throughout the game? It's because there's an item you can use later, the Gordian Knot which gives a permanent +2 to Charisma for a -1 in Wisdom.
After using the item, I would remove the +2 to Charisma Tattoo and trade it for a Tattoo of Warding (+1 AC).
Intelligence would increase in Ravel's Maze and stay at 17 until Carceri and the killing of Trias to get (with Celestial Fire) the Tattoo of the Betrayer (+1 INT/STR) which would replace the one that gives +2 to Intelligence.
When you get to the Fortress of Regrets, any increase is just cherry on cake, they don't matter much. I would just use an additional Tattoo of Warding instead of the Tattoo of the Betrayer upon Intelligence and Strength increase.
Now, back to the first table and the spending of points you earn by leveling. I focus on Dexterity before Constitution, mainly because regeneration is just a convenience thing. You can steal infinite Heart Charms so there's no true need of it. Also, Constitution is a worthless Statistics if you consider dialogs Statistics checks.
On the other hand, high enough Dexterity gives you precious AC points. So it's only natural that it would get increased to 24 for the maximum AC benefit.
So, our choices regarding Statistics differ a bit. I really never go over 16 for Intelligence and Charisma and only increase them temporarily if necessary.
I also put more emphasis on Strength which is absolutely necessary given that I play a more melee oriented solo character on maximum difficulty.
Regarding your choice of items, I completely agree and would pick the same except for the Earring which would be a Stinger Earring (+2 AC; +2 AC vs. Piercing Attacks) for the same reasons.
About the Punch Daggers of Shar, I'm not to sure how useful would be its bonuses given the low damage they do.
Highest Checks.
CON: 21 (Paranoid Incarnation - next highest is 12)
STR: 21 (Paranoid Incarnation - next highest is 17, but only occurs if you are a fighter at the time; next highest for any class is 16)
INT: 21 (no checks above 19 until after Carceri)
WIS: 24 (Transcendent One - next highest is 22)
CHA: 25 (Nordom - Vhailor and TTO are only other checks above 18)
DEX: 19 (Nabat in Curst)
If these check out, that can tell you where you can stop increasing for certain stats.
mage. The Nameless One only gets experience in the class he is currently a member of — he switches classes by talking to people in the game. Furthermore, he cannot access any of the other classes’ abilities when he is specializing in one of the classes. The Nameless One only gains hit points when he gains a level in a class that’s higher than the maximum level he’s achieved in any of his other classes. For example, he
starts off as a level three fighter and a level one mage and thief. When he gains enough experience to become a second level mage he won’t get any more hit points because his mage level (two) is still lower or equal to his fighter level (three). When the Nameless One gains an experience level higher than three, then he’ll start to accrue more hit points (always 1-10 hit points per level).
and if I understand it correctly TNO should get 10 HP (with Max HP on level option on) on level without any level cap.
They should however have more HP than those numbers, i guess the HPs recieved, gets capped when you level up to much, and too fast. Also, iv'e noticed that TNO and Annah sometimes receive less thief points then they should have. As an example, when you train as a thief for the first time you only recieve 20 thief Points (when you should recieve 40 Points+20/per level), and if you try using the console commands, sometimes you only get about 6-12 thief points at a level up. From level 12-16 i only recieved 36 Points, which i suspect is a bug?
Anyone else noticed this?
Unless you, for whatever reason, talk about non-EE version where it indeed worked that way. But that one didn't have a console. :P Anyway, something shady going on.