Playing no- or minimal reload runs is like an exam for me: you have to know threats, you have to remember everything, you have to think in advance. Of course, it imposes a lot of difficulties if you try a game for the first time, or for the first several times. I always feel a lot of responsibility and pressure when I play that way. But I - personally - like that, for some reason. Of course, people who try no- or minimal reload runs in BG, PoE, Diablo, etc most likely had some (or I'd say big) experience with the game, - they might not have finished the game but they know how it works.
Trying new builds, starting anew, picking different dialogue lines, seeing new quest twists (and in D:OS you get many of them depending on your choices) is very, very cool. Restricting yourself from it decreases possible enjoyment.
I wouldn't say participating in online discussions is a bad thing. It all comes down to how independent you can stay. I always prefer to try everything myself, rarely trusting something just because someone says it's good or bad. And at the same time, it leads to situations when I don't fear to share my own thoughts.
It's really bad when you don't even expect but "count on" getting massive attacks and negative reinforcement for sharing an opinion.
The good thing here is that there always people who would support you. Even if they're only few. I'd even say - the more anyone keeps sharing their opinion, the more supporters they get.
In any case, I'm really glad you're gradually immersing into a new game. Reading your analysis is always a pleasure of its own, I've enjoyed all your reviews, from IWD 2 to P:K.
So I, too, am finally giving D:OS2 a shot. I've tried many times but I dislike the general character building and mechanics but I've finally forced myself through for the sake of companions and story which I do like. I'm at Arx now and gosh darn the difficulty ramped up considerably and I'm playing on the explorer difficulty which is like the second easiest. I think I just don't get the combat mechanics well enough and the game expects me to by now. Going to try and trudge through, though I will say I haven't seen yet why people praise this game as "best RPG of the decade."
Like I like it, but I guess it's just not appealing to my specific jams. Party so far is Red Prince, of whom my own Lizard Necromancer Priest girl is romancing, Lohse, and Fane. I'm having fun RPing a necromancer since some of the story mechanics cater to that.
If I play this game again ima make a cute dwarf girl using the bard class mod but I wanted to do my first run mod-less so doing said Lizard Necromancer Priest build. Idea is to make her like an evil D&D cleric so focusing on hydrosophist and necromancy along with one handed weapon+shield and heavy armor. Though despite my attempts to play "evil" I have the hero tag since I'm just doing what my character wants to do and I guess that makes her a hero.
Edit: I think when I play more tomorrow I’m going to try and respec all my characters to make them more optimal since I’m losing every fight I go in to.
I noticed that DOS2 can be unforgiven if not really building your characters to the strengths of your party. Have at least someone with level 2 loremaster to be able to identify enemies and see what their (elemental) weaknesses are. I have a party build of 1 earth/poison mage, 1 air/water/necro mage, 1 melee/fire frontliner and 1 ranger. This seems to combine more or less ok. I just entered Arx at the moment, and looking forward to wrap it up.
I think the appeal of (esp.) DOS2 is that they allow various paths to reach the target, and that some things are truly locked out depending on how/with whom you play. For example, there was (at least) one quest (that I know of that) I couldn't solve because I did not have an undead party member.
Furthermore, this game also lets you do interesting and unexpected things. For example
when handling the trolls on the bridges in driftwood, I teleported lava from another area onto the bridge with the spell terrain transformation which gave a very easy kill. Another example is the way that you can teleport Alice Alisceon onto the lower beach and then tag her with an archer so you have Jahan (who is 5 levels higher than her) help you out with killing her.
. The game allows this, which can create some fairly interesting things and thinking. It allows a lot of freedom.
@Vallmyr , I'm struggling with combat in D:OS2, too. I can do all the fights in Fort Joy and on the island fairly well now on Explorer difficulty, but when I try it on Classic difficulty, I have a really, really hard time with the arena fight and then with Griff's gang. I've beaten both those fights on Classic difficulty, but only with several reloads each and some lucky dice rolls, such as Griff only rolling one critical hit on his double backstabs instead of two.
Since I've spent quite a bit of time on both difficulties, I'm noticing that Explorer mode is slightly more generous with finding gear in chests and drops, and the enemies are either slightly less well-geared or don't use their skills as often or as efficiently.
I first noticed in the arena fight that every member of the rival party had many skills that were better than the skills my party had, and had no access to, because of not being able to afford more skill books, and I won't steal them. They also have way higher armor, which means they have better gear than I could possibly afford.
The game expects you to try to study the environment before and during a fight. Larian is really big on that. I learned a trick where, say, before the fight with Griff's gang, I unchained everybody, and positioned my archer on a platform. Then, he moved some boxes and stools in front of the ladder up there, effectively blocking it. I've learned that enemies will try to chase your archer up onto platforms.
I positioned my mage and my off-tank across the kitchen area from each other, right next to two different enemies. Then my main tank talked to Griff to start the fight.
I had to have the metaknowledge to know that trying to get Griff to honor his deal, without our giving up the name of the "thief", was going to start the fight, to do any of that, though.
Even with all that advance planning and positioning, I still lost the fight twice before I finally won on the third try.
(I know that fight can be avoided, but courageously taking on that gang seems like what a paladin type like me would be honor-bound to do.)
I think I see how this intensely tactical combat, with a very real chance to lose every time, appeals to a certain fairly large audience. It's very intense and adrenaline pumping, and it increases the rush when you finally win, because it was so hard, and took so many tries.
That constant adrenaline-pumped, omg we're all going to die, mental state isn't something I personally enjoy very much in a game, though. So, for now, I'm going back to Explorer mode, so I can finally play the rest of the game, and get out of Fort Joy. Like you, the characters, story, and lore were the main thing that drew me in, and I'd like to see more of it.
Sometimes on Classic difficulty, I feel almost like I'm playing a game of Heroes of Might and Magic, on a really hard map. (Turn-based strategy game.)
For D:OS2 , I think they expect everybody to study guides and min-max all their characters like crazy, because so many players do that any way. It's just not how I, personally, like to play, at least not very often.
However, they included story mode (I don't want to go *that* low in difficulty) and Explorer mode specifically for players like me, and I continue to be impressed by their characters and story.
Mmm I do not think they expect you to min-max and read guides, but also they do not expect to win every fight in classic mode in auto-combat (figuratively speaking), they should warn you more about that in character creation. I think they could have named the explorer game "normal" and the classic "hard" because I read that misconception several times. Classic mode is hardcore for newer players and many games use those labels, so I understand that people expect the classic mode to be more forgiven.
I noticed that DOS2 can be unforgiven if not really building your characters to the strengths of your party. Have at least someone with level 2 loremaster to be able to identify enemies and see what their (elemental) weaknesses are. I have a party build of 1 earth/poison mage, 1 air/water/necro mage, 1 melee/fire frontliner and 1 ranger. This seems to combine more or less ok. I just entered Arx at the moment, and looking forward to wrap it up.
I think the appeal of (esp.) DOS2 is that they allow various paths to reach the target, and that some things are truly locked out depending on how/with whom you play. For example, there was (at least) one quest (that I know of that) I couldn't solve because I did not have an undead party member.
Furthermore, this game also lets you do interesting and unexpected things. For example
when handling the trolls on the bridges in driftwood, I teleported lava from another area onto the bridge with the spell terrain transformation which gave a very easy kill. Another example is the way that you can teleport Alice Alisceon onto the lower beach and then tag her with an archer so you have Jahan (who is 5 levels higher than her) help you out with killing her.
. The game allows this, which can create some fairly interesting things and thinking. It allows a lot of freedom.
Due to the two types of armour, it´s usually better to have the group attack the same armour at the same time, i.e a group of rangers, fighters, healers, necros, summoners attacking with physical attacks or an all-mage with an inquisitor group of elemental attackers. The game gets a little more complicated if you mix damage types in the last act.
To be honest, a party of versatile characters is more fun IMHO and you can beat the game anyway when you are more experienced in DoS2 but for a first playthrough, it´s more manageable that way. Sometimes you also are really unlucky in the drops and the vendor´s items so having a party that uses a more broad spectre of equipment always helps.
Interesting. I haven't beaten D:OS 2 yet, stopped at about Act 2.5. It seemed to me (on Tactician) combat actually became easier approximately at 2/3 of Act 2. I started approximately 15 times in D:OS 2 and after getting the idea of how it plays switched to D:OS 1. I managed to complete it without reloads as well, but I had very deep knowledge of the game mechanics. And in D:OS 1 - again - after about 1/2 of the game - combat started to seem easier than in the beginning (thanks to so many nice spells).
D:OS 2 is letting you easy free respec once you leave Act 1, so using wrong skills shouldn't be a problem.
All this talk is making me start the game again. I hope I'll be able to share about my progress in the minimal reload thread. After all, the "Honour" and "Tactician" achievements are waiting for me.
So, I was perusing my character screens, and I saw that playing on Explorer difficulty is giving all my characters +30 percent armor and +50 percent damage, as well as +5 accuracy and +5 percent critical chance! No wonder it's so easy!
I couldn't figure out before why I felt like I had so much more armor and damage ability using early junk weapons. Now I know.
I can't confirm it, but I have a feeling the enemies are getting a debuff (way less armor and health) as well.
EDIT: I confirmed it by examining an enemy during combat. Not only does my party have huge buffs, the enemy has huge debuffs.
The classic difficulty gives no bonuses at all to the player, and I don't know for sure if it buffs the enemies. It sure feels like it.
I wish there were something in between as far as difficulty, but for now I prefer the easy mode over the constant stress of the hard mode. I'm not even considering playing the hardest mode, Tactician difficulty.
The modes are effectively No Challenge, Easy, Very Hard, and Extremely Hard. I would enjoy a "Just Normal" difficulty, but, oh well. Explorer mode for me it is.
EDIT: Also, I'm not super crazy about the dual armor system, because it encourages the player to concentrate on one or the other, to the point of needing either four magic damage characters, OR four physical damage characters on the harder difficulties rather than a balanced party.
Don't get me wrong with the criticisms I keep pointing out, I'm still really enjoying it and I see it's a great game. I don't plan to quit playing any time soon.
No, don't worry about concentrating on one or the other. I usually have both attacks in my party - you will find enemies who are better "suited" for you to go through either physical or magical defences, and in one fight. Usually for me, Louse (or any enchanter) on higher levels can destroy all magical defense on one of the hardest enemies in the group in one turn and thus disable it from taking its turn, while my rogue/archer can destroy all physical defense on one enemy during the same turn (and as well disable it). I like using both physical and magic attacks in the group, it's fun to use nearly everything you can.
But if you're a min-maxer, then yes, you can play with either a "physical" or "magical" party, but that is not so fun, in my opinion.
Well, this just got really fun. I decided to go for a full frontal assault on the Magisters' Keep. I'm not sure this option would be possible on Classic or Tactician.
Sadly, I was not able to save Paladin Cook, because he ran away from us towards more magisters, instead of towards us like he should have done when he saw he had unexpected allies.
I happen to know from a previous playthrough that if you go through the dungeons first and come back up to this area from inside, you can hear Paladin Cook talking to the magisters (the paladins are suspicious of what the magisters are doing to Sourcerers), and it is possible to save him if you attack from inside the doors, and you can possibly get a quest from him, or at least some new lore, after talking to him when all the magisters are dead.
Sadly, I will have missed that this time around. But I am impressed with all the possibilities programmed into the game. There are so many different possible outcomes to everything, I don't think it is possible to see them all in one run, increasing potential replayability.
It really is like a tabletop session of D&D with a good dungeon master, where anything is possible, as long as you don't get hung up in difficult combats.
So, for me, Explorer difficulty is definitely the most fun. That is the mode that makes it seem the most similar to BG, or say, NWN, to me. Combat is dangerous, but not that big a deal if you have learned how the game operates and some tricks. That allows me to focus on the roleplaying, the story, and the lore.
I see what Larian has done with the various difficulty modes. There's a difficulty that makes it feel like BG, and higher difficulties that make it feel like BG with SCS or worse, more like Dark Souls, or some game where dying all the time is expected and wanted.
I just think it would have helped them win over more players if there was one more difficulty mode between Explorer and Classic, and that they had named them differently, or at least included more detailed descriptions on the game creation screen about exactly what kind of experience was desired. I see where they did in fact try their best to do that, but I didn't get it from how they wrote the descriptions until I spent an entire week off from work playing the game alternately on Explorer and Classic.
As it stands, it feels to me like the difficulty slider is trying to do something similar to what Beamdog did with BG's difficulty slider, but they skipped "Core Rules" somehow. It feels to me like it goes "Story", "Normal", "Hard", "Legacy of Bhaal". There's not a difficulty setting that feels like "Core Rules", which is what I would prefer if it was there.
EDIT: Btw, I still haven't reloaded a single time yet on this run, making it a potential no-reload run so far. Maybe I'll report back the first time I get a party wipe.
EDIT 2: Steam says I spent 72 hours playing this week. Wow.
This was a really fun fight. As you can see from our health and armor totals, we're taking a lot of damage, but we're giving as good as we're getting.
This felt like a good D&D game, or like an engaging game of Baldur's Gate. I wasn't steamrolling the enemy, but I felt like a powerful paladin and his friends fighting a great wrong, a great evil. That's exactly the feeling I play D&D games to get.
It gave me just the right mix of feeling powerful but challenged, without feeling frustrated, as if I were a weak peasant in rags taking on a whole army, and depending on outsmarting vastly superior enemies to survive. Instead, I felt like somebody powerful but not invulnerable, and who still must be careful, while defending goodness, right, duty, honor, and all those paladin values I love so much.
Kudos, game. For anyone who finds the combat in D:OS2 frustrating and unfair, and who just wants to roleplay a D&D character in an engaging setting, I most definitely recommend playing on Explorer mode rather than Classic or Tactician modes.
About the two types of armour, I agree. I end up making a mod that gives you weapons with elemental damage and wands that deliver physical damage so your warriors can destroy magic or physical armour if needed. I do not know why they do not give that option in the game at first ¿?
There are also a few mods that merged both types of armour in one, but I think that could be meddling too much.
I stick almost exclusively to physical weapons but use tunes to add elemental/magical damage. Bows can switch to elemental arrows to take down magic armor as well. My main (Lohse) is mainly necromancy, so stripping that physical armor is key.
I recently started playing DOS2 again after quitting after leaving Reapers Coast, and am just about at the same place now. I’m playing on the Nintendo Switch, which is remarkably playable. Even when I play on the PC (cloud saves ftw) I generally play using a controller. Such a fun game! My only gripe is the inventory gets completely out of hand, but that’s my own fault for picking up everything that’s not nailed down!
About the two types of armour, I agree. I end up making a mod that gives you weapons with elemental damage and wands that deliver physical damage so your warriors can destroy magic or physical armour if needed. I do not know why they do not give that option in the game at first ¿?
There are also a few mods that merged both types of armour in one, but I think that could be meddling too much.
As I mentioned once, the introduction of the 2-type defense system in D:OS 2 was a way to address the issue from D:OS where on later levels you can just boss the whole fight (not only 1 enemy, but all of them) after one single cast from your wizard (eg. Jahan). I personally don't have any issue with the 2-type defense system and having played D:OS 1 see how this is an improvement. But in the same time, D:OS 2 allows for mods, which is a great thing.
That I understand, and I find interesting that you (and the enemies) have different armour types to resist physical or elemental damage, and that enemies could resist your debuffs (unlike DoS) I just find it puzzling that you have elemental ammo for ranged types but you do not have melee weapons that do the same or wands/staffs that deliver physical damage to the armour in the vanilla game.
I finally beat D:OS 2. While I haven't really composed my thoughts yet I enjoyed the game overall and feel the only "bad" part of the game is how absolutely boring gear is and how difficult it is to compare gear across all characters to see who can use what, such as when completing a quest and picking a reward I only see it compared to charname's gear and can't switch for party members. So I'd pick rewrards blindly hoping the are better than what the character is already wearing. Aside from the gear gripes though I had a lot of fun with everything else.
I think they are just really popular mods made official. I used the one for regaining source on rest because for the longest time I didn't realize how to restore source. Like most of these exist as mods.
Replaying the game this time with a friend, I'm letting them do most of the talking while I just RP with their character and occasionally talk to Npcs. While I had the bard mod installed last time I didn't use so using it this time to get my aura/buff playstyle. Going to combine it with summoning and huntsman for dominate mind and charm arrows. I like the game a lot, but the gear system is still the worst I've seen since WoW >_>.
@Vallmyr Seems you are just not a fan of the Diablo-esque, Borderlands-like loot system. I personally like it, - not that it's a big part of the game, but I like the sound of the Lucky Charm effect, as well as visiting traders once in a while. This is very similar to rolling for stats in BG or finding a Pokemon (to me).
If I could name one thing that I don't like the most in DoS2 it's indeed gear system. I wonder how is it possible there was no such a good gear system since BG2?It has the perfect balance of diversity, simplicity and lore filled descriptions. Each rpg I have played since BG2 have failed in at least on of those points.
It's just a gear system. D:OS follows exactly the model of Diablo and Borderlands games. It's their choice.
D&D games don't have that system, and BG3 won't have RNG gear.
You'd be surprised how important gear system is to me. In some games it tipped the balance for me to stop playing it. Incentive to find a new cool gear is powerful. The feeling when you assemble Crom Fayr, The Wave or Flail of Ages for the first time is priceless. I didn't feel emotional connection with any item in DoS2 at all. It's just a bunch of stats for me.
That's valid, sure. It's just a different system, and someone likes it, someone doesn't like it.
D&D gear in BG, IWD and PST is cool indeed. Unfortunately, the gear system in PoE and P:K didn't manage to capture the same feeling, for me. Those games, not D:OS, tried to emulate the feeling of old games as the main feature. So I wouldn't blame Larian for the Diablo-esque loot - they followed another design.
That's valid, sure. It's just a different system, and someone likes it, someone doesn't like it.
D&D gear in BG, IWD and PST is cool indeed. Unfortunately, the gear system in PoE and P:K didn't manage to capture the same feeling, for me. Those games, not D:OS, tried to emulate the feeling of old games as the main feature. So I wouldn't blame Larian for the Diablo-esque loot - they followed another design.
True for the first part, PoE had overcomplicated loot system (and mechanics in general) and P:K lacks the lore descriptive feeling (although it's the closest to BG2 from all BG spriritual successors I have ever played). But I would really want Larian to at least try to capture this BG feeling when it comes to loot and not go the safe way of Diablo-esque design.
That's valid, sure. It's just a different system, and someone likes it, someone doesn't like it.
D&D gear in BG, IWD and PST is cool indeed. Unfortunately, the gear system in PoE and P:K didn't manage to capture the same feeling, for me. Those games, not D:OS, tried to emulate the feeling of old games as the main feature. So I wouldn't blame Larian for the Diablo-esque loot - they followed another design.
True for the first part, PoE had overcomplicated loot system (and mechanics in general) and P:K lacks the lore descriptive feeling (although it's the closest to BG2 from all BG spriritual successors I have ever played). But I would really want Larian to at least try to capture this BG feeling when it comes to loot and not go the safe way of Diablo-esque design.
Which they will kinda try in BG3, a D&D game.
On a side note, I've tried to find articles on why I might like the D:OS loot:
I just find difficulty trying to examine stats and gear across 4 different characters when I'm comparing things like pants that give 200 armor, 134 magic armor, +1 summoning, +1 geomancer, +1 pyrokinetic but then I have pants that give 100 armor, 90 magic armor but it gives +1 hydrosophist, +1 necromancer, and +2 str and since my cleric uses hydro, necro, and str is it better than the raw armor output of the higher gear that gives me useless stats? Idk, apply this across four characters with multiple equip slots and I never feel like gear is making much of a difference with the only exception when I get a weapon that has higher damage numbers.
And this is just my lack of knowledge about the game, like it's entirely possible I should just focus on weapon damage/armor values first, and ignore the + stats unless it's comparing two pieces of gear with the same values. Or do +stats matter more than armor value stats? My unfamiliarity with the system causes me frustration which I feel is the exact complaint some people have about kingmaker when they are new to pathfinder. I imagine if I had a decade of experience with the divinity system and understood all the inner math workings I would enjoy it much more. So it's more of a me problem than a game problem.
I thought that one potential factor leading to that situation might be the player's problem (in a way) with inventory management and going through items for the XXth time. I can see how this can be difficult for such a player. Personally, I find extra pleasure in spending hours in my inventory.
About +skills vs +damage - I usually look at the damage before and after, actually (both on the character screen, and on one random spell).
Eg. I'd take +1 INT over +1 Hydrosophist on a character who also has Aerotheurge spells.
I'd look at how my initiative changes when taking off +Initiative items but boosting Wits.
I think the confusion might be due to not fully realizing which attribute and skill school do what (eg. Scoundrel improves the crit chance and movement, Warfare improves ALL physical damage, including from bows, but Ranged/One Handed improve both physical damage and the crit chance).
I also take into account how squishy I can let certain characters be: a tank should have higher armors than a backstabbing rogue, so for the rogue I'd pick equipment with more damage factors.
Improving side skills, eg. if you character is not a Pyrokinetic mage, might be useful in case of special attacks, like Red Prince's fire skill (it scales with levels and gets a boost from Pyrokinetic), or in case you put runes into the weapon that inflict fire damage. Same with Beast (whose skill is a melee earth attack) and Geomancer.
I kinda like the gear system of the game, sometimes you are unlucky with the drops and the item selection in the shops at your level, but at least you find plenty of variation, like in diablo or borderlands games.
What I like the most are the unique items you find hidden in the world, or wield by powerful characters or part of quests. Some of them seem related to their owners or had interesting origins like the armour and spear of braccus rex or Septa´s shield, or offer cool abilities (Migo´s ring or shadows eye or the gloves of teleportation comes to mind) or even penalties, like the poisoning antique ring of the necromancer and the Very silent armour in Reaper´s coast.
I think the ones that are not that good are the ones in the reaper´s coast. You level up too fast in there for them to be of use.
PD: I just remembered that I have a mod that level-up your unique items to your level, I think in the vanilla game most of the time the unique items were under-levelled and you do not get to use them that much.
Comments
Playing no- or minimal reload runs is like an exam for me: you have to know threats, you have to remember everything, you have to think in advance. Of course, it imposes a lot of difficulties if you try a game for the first time, or for the first several times. I always feel a lot of responsibility and pressure when I play that way. But I - personally - like that, for some reason. Of course, people who try no- or minimal reload runs in BG, PoE, Diablo, etc most likely had some (or I'd say big) experience with the game, - they might not have finished the game but they know how it works.
Trying new builds, starting anew, picking different dialogue lines, seeing new quest twists (and in D:OS you get many of them depending on your choices) is very, very cool. Restricting yourself from it decreases possible enjoyment.
I wouldn't say participating in online discussions is a bad thing. It all comes down to how independent you can stay. I always prefer to try everything myself, rarely trusting something just because someone says it's good or bad. And at the same time, it leads to situations when I don't fear to share my own thoughts.
It's really bad when you don't even expect but "count on" getting massive attacks and negative reinforcement for sharing an opinion.
The good thing here is that there always people who would support you. Even if they're only few. I'd even say - the more anyone keeps sharing their opinion, the more supporters they get.
In any case, I'm really glad you're gradually immersing into a new game. Reading your analysis is always a pleasure of its own, I've enjoyed all your reviews, from IWD 2 to P:K.
Like I like it, but I guess it's just not appealing to my specific jams. Party so far is Red Prince, of whom my own Lizard Necromancer Priest girl is romancing, Lohse, and Fane. I'm having fun RPing a necromancer since some of the story mechanics cater to that.
If I play this game again ima make a cute dwarf girl using the bard class mod but I wanted to do my first run mod-less so doing said Lizard Necromancer Priest build. Idea is to make her like an evil D&D cleric so focusing on hydrosophist and necromancy along with one handed weapon+shield and heavy armor. Though despite my attempts to play "evil" I have the hero tag since I'm just doing what my character wants to do and I guess that makes her a hero.
Edit: I think when I play more tomorrow I’m going to try and respec all my characters to make them more optimal since I’m losing every fight I go in to.
I think the appeal of (esp.) DOS2 is that they allow various paths to reach the target, and that some things are truly locked out depending on how/with whom you play. For example, there was (at least) one quest (that I know of that) I couldn't solve because I did not have an undead party member.
Furthermore, this game also lets you do interesting and unexpected things. For example
Since I've spent quite a bit of time on both difficulties, I'm noticing that Explorer mode is slightly more generous with finding gear in chests and drops, and the enemies are either slightly less well-geared or don't use their skills as often or as efficiently.
I first noticed in the arena fight that every member of the rival party had many skills that were better than the skills my party had, and had no access to, because of not being able to afford more skill books, and I won't steal them. They also have way higher armor, which means they have better gear than I could possibly afford.
The game expects you to try to study the environment before and during a fight. Larian is really big on that. I learned a trick where, say, before the fight with Griff's gang, I unchained everybody, and positioned my archer on a platform. Then, he moved some boxes and stools in front of the ladder up there, effectively blocking it. I've learned that enemies will try to chase your archer up onto platforms.
I positioned my mage and my off-tank across the kitchen area from each other, right next to two different enemies. Then my main tank talked to Griff to start the fight.
I had to have the metaknowledge to know that trying to get Griff to honor his deal, without our giving up the name of the "thief", was going to start the fight, to do any of that, though.
Even with all that advance planning and positioning, I still lost the fight twice before I finally won on the third try.
(I know that fight can be avoided, but courageously taking on that gang seems like what a paladin type like me would be honor-bound to do.)
I think I see how this intensely tactical combat, with a very real chance to lose every time, appeals to a certain fairly large audience. It's very intense and adrenaline pumping, and it increases the rush when you finally win, because it was so hard, and took so many tries.
That constant adrenaline-pumped, omg we're all going to die, mental state isn't something I personally enjoy very much in a game, though. So, for now, I'm going back to Explorer mode, so I can finally play the rest of the game, and get out of Fort Joy. Like you, the characters, story, and lore were the main thing that drew me in, and I'd like to see more of it.
Sometimes on Classic difficulty, I feel almost like I'm playing a game of Heroes of Might and Magic, on a really hard map. (Turn-based strategy game.)
For D:OS2 , I think they expect everybody to study guides and min-max all their characters like crazy, because so many players do that any way. It's just not how I, personally, like to play, at least not very often.
However, they included story mode (I don't want to go *that* low in difficulty) and Explorer mode specifically for players like me, and I continue to be impressed by their characters and story.
Due to the two types of armour, it´s usually better to have the group attack the same armour at the same time, i.e a group of rangers, fighters, healers, necros, summoners attacking with physical attacks or an all-mage with an inquisitor group of elemental attackers. The game gets a little more complicated if you mix damage types in the last act.
To be honest, a party of versatile characters is more fun IMHO and you can beat the game anyway when you are more experienced in DoS2 but for a first playthrough, it´s more manageable that way. Sometimes you also are really unlucky in the drops and the vendor´s items so having a party that uses a more broad spectre of equipment always helps.
D:OS 2 is letting you easy free respec once you leave Act 1, so using wrong skills shouldn't be a problem.
All this talk is making me start the game again. I hope I'll be able to share about my progress in the minimal reload thread. After all, the "Honour" and "Tactician" achievements are waiting for me.
I couldn't figure out before why I felt like I had so much more armor and damage ability using early junk weapons. Now I know.
I can't confirm it, but I have a feeling the enemies are getting a debuff (way less armor and health) as well.
EDIT: I confirmed it by examining an enemy during combat. Not only does my party have huge buffs, the enemy has huge debuffs.
The classic difficulty gives no bonuses at all to the player, and I don't know for sure if it buffs the enemies. It sure feels like it.
I wish there were something in between as far as difficulty, but for now I prefer the easy mode over the constant stress of the hard mode. I'm not even considering playing the hardest mode, Tactician difficulty.
The modes are effectively No Challenge, Easy, Very Hard, and Extremely Hard. I would enjoy a "Just Normal" difficulty, but, oh well. Explorer mode for me it is.
EDIT: Also, I'm not super crazy about the dual armor system, because it encourages the player to concentrate on one or the other, to the point of needing either four magic damage characters, OR four physical damage characters on the harder difficulties rather than a balanced party.
Don't get me wrong with the criticisms I keep pointing out, I'm still really enjoying it and I see it's a great game. I don't plan to quit playing any time soon.
But if you're a min-maxer, then yes, you can play with either a "physical" or "magical" party, but that is not so fun, in my opinion.
Sadly, I was not able to save Paladin Cook, because he ran away from us towards more magisters, instead of towards us like he should have done when he saw he had unexpected allies.
I happen to know from a previous playthrough that if you go through the dungeons first and come back up to this area from inside, you can hear Paladin Cook talking to the magisters (the paladins are suspicious of what the magisters are doing to Sourcerers), and it is possible to save him if you attack from inside the doors, and you can possibly get a quest from him, or at least some new lore, after talking to him when all the magisters are dead.
Sadly, I will have missed that this time around. But I am impressed with all the possibilities programmed into the game. There are so many different possible outcomes to everything, I don't think it is possible to see them all in one run, increasing potential replayability.
It really is like a tabletop session of D&D with a good dungeon master, where anything is possible, as long as you don't get hung up in difficult combats.
So, for me, Explorer difficulty is definitely the most fun. That is the mode that makes it seem the most similar to BG, or say, NWN, to me. Combat is dangerous, but not that big a deal if you have learned how the game operates and some tricks. That allows me to focus on the roleplaying, the story, and the lore.
I see what Larian has done with the various difficulty modes. There's a difficulty that makes it feel like BG, and higher difficulties that make it feel like BG with SCS or worse, more like Dark Souls, or some game where dying all the time is expected and wanted.
I just think it would have helped them win over more players if there was one more difficulty mode between Explorer and Classic, and that they had named them differently, or at least included more detailed descriptions on the game creation screen about exactly what kind of experience was desired. I see where they did in fact try their best to do that, but I didn't get it from how they wrote the descriptions until I spent an entire week off from work playing the game alternately on Explorer and Classic.
As it stands, it feels to me like the difficulty slider is trying to do something similar to what Beamdog did with BG's difficulty slider, but they skipped "Core Rules" somehow. It feels to me like it goes "Story", "Normal", "Hard", "Legacy of Bhaal". There's not a difficulty setting that feels like "Core Rules", which is what I would prefer if it was there.
EDIT: Btw, I still haven't reloaded a single time yet on this run, making it a potential no-reload run so far. Maybe I'll report back the first time I get a party wipe.
EDIT 2: Steam says I spent 72 hours playing this week. Wow.
This felt like a good D&D game, or like an engaging game of Baldur's Gate. I wasn't steamrolling the enemy, but I felt like a powerful paladin and his friends fighting a great wrong, a great evil. That's exactly the feeling I play D&D games to get.
It gave me just the right mix of feeling powerful but challenged, without feeling frustrated, as if I were a weak peasant in rags taking on a whole army, and depending on outsmarting vastly superior enemies to survive. Instead, I felt like somebody powerful but not invulnerable, and who still must be careful, while defending goodness, right, duty, honor, and all those paladin values I love so much.
Kudos, game. For anyone who finds the combat in D:OS2 frustrating and unfair, and who just wants to roleplay a D&D character in an engaging setting, I most definitely recommend playing on Explorer mode rather than Classic or Tactician modes.
There are also a few mods that merged both types of armour in one, but I think that could be meddling too much.
I recently started playing DOS2 again after quitting after leaving Reapers Coast, and am just about at the same place now. I’m playing on the Nintendo Switch, which is remarkably playable. Even when I play on the PC (cloud saves ftw) I generally play using a controller. Such a fun game! My only gripe is the inventory gets completely out of hand, but that’s my own fault for picking up everything that’s not nailed down!
As I mentioned once, the introduction of the 2-type defense system in D:OS 2 was a way to address the issue from D:OS where on later levels you can just boss the whole fight (not only 1 enemy, but all of them) after one single cast from your wizard (eg. Jahan). I personally don't have any issue with the 2-type defense system and having played D:OS 1 see how this is an improvement. But in the same time, D:OS 2 allows for mods, which is a great thing.
Thanks for all your insights about D:OS 2.
I feel like giving this game a second chance...
I didn't like the setting the first time I played it and as my gaming time is very limited, I just stopped after 4 hours.
Thanks for sharing your experience @BelgarathMTH
They are optional, you can decide which option you want to use. I don't use them at all.
That said, D:OS in MP is such a great experience.
D&D games don't have that system, and BG3 won't have RNG gear.
You'd be surprised how important gear system is to me. In some games it tipped the balance for me to stop playing it. Incentive to find a new cool gear is powerful. The feeling when you assemble Crom Fayr, The Wave or Flail of Ages for the first time is priceless. I didn't feel emotional connection with any item in DoS2 at all. It's just a bunch of stats for me.
D&D gear in BG, IWD and PST is cool indeed. Unfortunately, the gear system in PoE and P:K didn't manage to capture the same feeling, for me. Those games, not D:OS, tried to emulate the feeling of old games as the main feature. So I wouldn't blame Larian for the Diablo-esque loot - they followed another design.
True for the first part, PoE had overcomplicated loot system (and mechanics in general) and P:K lacks the lore descriptive feeling (although it's the closest to BG2 from all BG spriritual successors I have ever played). But I would really want Larian to at least try to capture this BG feeling when it comes to loot and not go the safe way of Diablo-esque design.
Which they will kinda try in BG3, a D&D game.
On a side note, I've tried to find articles on why I might like the D:OS loot:
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/10/23/the-science-behind-why-we-love-loot.aspx
https://www.psychologyofgames.com/2012/06/the-psychology-of-diablo-iii-loot-part-3-dopamine-binds-on-pickup/
https://www.psychologyofgames.com/2009/12/phat-loot-and-neurotransmitters-in-world-of-warcraft/
To me, every time I find the epic gear in D:OS I feel lucky and cool that I managed to find it, I feel a reward and the uniqueness of that moment.
And this is just my lack of knowledge about the game, like it's entirely possible I should just focus on weapon damage/armor values first, and ignore the + stats unless it's comparing two pieces of gear with the same values. Or do +stats matter more than armor value stats? My unfamiliarity with the system causes me frustration which I feel is the exact complaint some people have about kingmaker when they are new to pathfinder. I imagine if I had a decade of experience with the divinity system and understood all the inner math workings I would enjoy it much more. So it's more of a me problem than a game problem.
About +skills vs +damage - I usually look at the damage before and after, actually (both on the character screen, and on one random spell).
Eg. I'd take +1 INT over +1 Hydrosophist on a character who also has Aerotheurge spells.
I'd look at how my initiative changes when taking off +Initiative items but boosting Wits.
I think the confusion might be due to not fully realizing which attribute and skill school do what (eg. Scoundrel improves the crit chance and movement, Warfare improves ALL physical damage, including from bows, but Ranged/One Handed improve both physical damage and the crit chance).
I also take into account how squishy I can let certain characters be: a tank should have higher armors than a backstabbing rogue, so for the rogue I'd pick equipment with more damage factors.
Improving side skills, eg. if you character is not a Pyrokinetic mage, might be useful in case of special attacks, like Red Prince's fire skill (it scales with levels and gets a boost from Pyrokinetic), or in case you put runes into the weapon that inflict fire damage. Same with Beast (whose skill is a melee earth attack) and Geomancer.
What I like the most are the unique items you find hidden in the world, or wield by powerful characters or part of quests. Some of them seem related to their owners or had interesting origins like the armour and spear of braccus rex or Septa´s shield, or offer cool abilities (Migo´s ring or shadows eye or the gloves of teleportation comes to mind) or even penalties, like the poisoning antique ring of the necromancer and the Very silent armour in Reaper´s coast.
I think the ones that are not that good are the ones in the reaper´s coast. You level up too fast in there for them to be of use.
PD: I just remembered that I have a mod that level-up your unique items to your level, I think in the vanilla game most of the time the unique items were under-levelled and you do not get to use them that much.