Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Axis & Allies 1942 Online is now available in Early Access! Buy it on Steam. The FAQ is available.
New Premium Module: Tyrants of the Moonsea! Read More
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Neverwinter Nights 2 Enhanced Edition

124

Comments

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,399
    edited September 2017
    @subtledoctor , I just ran across a reference that mentioned that if you set the camera mode to strategy mode, there's a checkbox to "turn on marquee select" in the settings, if you're still interested in that. The author claimed that the strategy camera mode would create a more top-down, isometric rpg experience.

    I didn't know about it, because I never use the strategy mode camera.

    The reference is under "minor tweaks" in the "Neverwinter Nights 2 Best Mods" section of Lilura's Blog. @Lilura 's blog is a pretty popular website for NWN fans, with lots of good links and walkthroughs.

    https://lilura1.blogspot.com/p/neverwinter-nights-2-mods.html

    Vallmyr
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    edited September 2017
    I love this idea!

    @subtledoctor , I just ran across a reference that mentioned that if you set the camera mode to strategy mode, there's a checkbox to "turn on marquee select" in the settings, if you're still interested in that. The author claimed that the strategy camera mode would create a more top-down, isometric rpg experience.

    That's straight out of the game manuals, actually. As I said, the game itself claims to give players a great single-player top-down isometric-style rpg experience.

    Funny thing, I've been reading the manuals (after ~5 hours playing... because this 3E stuff is maddeningly complex and I need a primer). They talk over and over again about the two ways to play: "strategic mode" (BG-style) and "character mode" (@Fardragon-style, I presume).

    But I'm pretty sure I've found my sweet spot using the other mode. "Exploration mode," I think it's called. I've got marquee selection working this way, although nowhere does it say that's possible. Just a funny thing.

    BelgarathMTH
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited September 2017
    I hate this idea!
    I think the game manuals represent aspiration rather than truth. Obsidian tried to add in BG style controls to a game engine that wasn't designed to support them. So they don't actually work very well. Say hello Qara.

    I usually play in exploration mode, as I don't care for wasd controls, annd the top down view limits visual range too much less than bow/spell range.

    Post edited by Fardragon on
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    I hate this idea!
    Never played NWN 2. Disliked NWN 1 so never really felt tempted. The game was ugly, controls were -- well not really controls. Unlike some, I liked the story. But the engine? Terrible. I *really* hope Beamdog's confirmation that the they are using the unreal engine leads them to make a NWN like game.

  • JumboWheat01JumboWheat01 Member Posts: 1,028
    I have no opinion.
    The Aurora Engine is definitely not the greatest of engines.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    edited September 2017
    I love this idea!
    Fardragon said:

    I usually play in exploration mode, as I don't care for wasd controls, annd the top down view limits visual range too much less than bow/spell range.

    Yes, that's the one. I'm actually finding it totally serviceable this way.

    The AI is weird... I read that it tends to try to target whoever the selected caster is? And if that's in the back row then it just walks past your tanks and suffers attacks of opportunity? That's silly. I haven't noticed it because my Charname is a DEX-focused parrying bard/swashy, comfortable in the front row. Controlling casters (who need more control) seems harder with stuff like this. What might be useful for casters is to allow infinite cantrips (as they should be, come on 3.5) and use an AI script that prefers low-level spells. Then you can use them like magical archers, let them plink away with Daze or Flare at will, until you want them to cast a particular stronger spell, and then you can issue directions. Something like that.

    But anyway it seems like there are solvable problems here. Getting back to the thread topic, the pipe dream of Beamdog doing a multi-platform remaster that enhances what needs enhancing, I would look for something like:

    - Improve enemy AI
    - Improve party caster AI
    - Show a visual indicator of the selected PC's current target
    - Use the SoZ conversation method so that I can use my bard's bluff skill while keeping my dumb ugly tank in the front of the party without worrying about triggering dialogues
    - Set some good default values for basic controls in Exploration Mode and Strategy Mode
    - For Heaven's sake, fix the thing where you can't do inventory management or weapon switching while the game is paused. This is the WORST.
    - When I click on my current weapon in a quick slot, don't unequip the weapon! If there needs to be an easy way to switch to unarmed, just have a separate dedicated button for that.

    If stuff like that were done and I was able to play the game natively on different platforms (gold star for getting it to work on iOS) then I'd be interested enough to give Beamdog some money for their effort.

    BelgarathMTHdemoix
  • helmo1977helmo1977 Member Posts: 360
    I have no opinion.
    I think nwn 2 is not in need of an overhaul.

    Besides, it is a very different monster to that of the EE versions we have seen so far. It is 3.5 rules, different engine and different point of view. IE engine games have a fixed view. NWN 2 doesnt.

    On any case, I think enhacing a game that, imo, doesnt need to be enhaced is pointless

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    I love this idea!
    Yeah but by that logic, BG2 didn't need to be enhanced either. The main enhancement of BGEE was that it brought BG1 content into the TOB engine. Same for IWDEE.

    But what was the point of enhancing BG2? What do you get out of it that you couldn't get - for cheaper - from vanilla BG2/TOB on GOG? I think the answer is something like:
    - some bug fixes
    - some UI improvements
    - available on more platforms
    - a couple new NPCs & quests

    Same proposition here.

    ThacoBellsarevok57rorikonleeux
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    I hate this idea!
    You certainly get a lot more AOOs in NWN than you do in PnP! It worth taking skills/feets to avoid them on the hero party.

  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 664
    edited September 2017
    Well Nwn 2 modding isn't very unified. There is no comprehensive unofficial fixpack for Nwn2. There are a number of mods you can shuffle into your override folder, but it's a bit of a mess compared to vanilla BG2 and not all of them are compatible with each other.

    I would say it needs a patch more than anything. I think there was a final patch in the works, but Atari pulled the plug on that..Twats :(

  • kingnightkingnight Member Posts: 45
    I have no opinion.
    May I ask why should NW2 be remastered, isn't the game not powerful enough?

  • toolargtoolarg Member Posts: 178
    edited April 2018
    I love this idea!
    I love NWN2, much more than NWN1. However there are plenty of things that NWN1 did better, as it seemed to be a better funded in house project and not a third party RELEASE IT NOW kind of deal:
    - Better animations, specially battle ones. While waiting for attacks to happen you would see characters crossing swords, sparks flying, various ways of dodging/parrying etc. NWN2 had none of it. If you have played BGEE/BG2 and IWD2 youll know what I mean, it happens in IWD2 low budget too, all the "idle" combat animations are cut.
    - Better controls, specially the camera. Not even the last patch, not even the unofficial patch that used some sort of injector to fix numerous things managed to make the camera as fluid as NWN1. NWN2 camera works in stances: low-middle-high-zoom, whereas NWN1 responded to your every input. It also had a nasty bug where it would start spining uncontrollably during dialogues under certain circumstances. There was also a sort of lag effect: while moving around your character would often stop while keeping the running animation and then go back to a previous point, like a MMO with bad connection. It was just terrible.
    - Cut content, LOTS OF IT.
    - Buggy all around, quests, classes, feats, dialogue checks.

    Yet I still loved it, because of the sheer variety of races and classes. I even liked the OC campaign, that so many people hated. To me it was a classic sword&sorcery campaign, yes, full of cliches, but still very much enjoyable because of the characters.
    An EE could fix/improve all of that.

    Wandering_Minstrel
  • ChiefBigFeatherChiefBigFeather Member Posts: 15
    Mask of the Betrayer is my favorite rpg ever. The story is just beautiful. I would certainly play an EE.

    Things that could be improved:
    1. AI
    Even with Tony_k's AI mod, many monsters and NPCs are fairly stupid
    2. Spell bugs
    There are many bugged spells in NWN2, defensive casting mode was bugged too as far as I know
    3. Encounter Design
    The game is way too easy, it needs tougher encounters (not just a +dmg setting)

    I think the camera is fine tbh. There was one really useful camera mode while the other two seemed to be there just to confuse people.

    FinneousPJSikorskysarevok57
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,564
    I would buy it.
    i never seem to have camera problems in NWN 2 ( dont know if i mentioned this earlier ) but people keep saying that the camera in NWN 2 is way worse than it was in NWN 1 and yet, they both seem the same to me...?

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,466
    I love this idea!
    I don't have any issues in the field or large rooms, but in dungeons with narrow corridors, the camera gets stuck on ALL THE GEOMETRY.

    sarevok57
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,510
    I love this idea!
    Lucky you, @ThacoBell I started to hate NWN2's camera from the tutorial.

    ThacoBell
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,399
    sarevok57 said:

    i never seem to have camera problems in NWN 2 ( dont know if i mentioned this earlier ) but people keep saying that the camera in NWN 2 is way worse than it was in NWN 1 and yet, they both seem the same to me...?

    @sarevok57 , The problem is the speed of the camera turning. It's incredibly oversensitive, even at the lowest setting. The slightest touch at the edge of the screen causes the camera to jerk around violently, causing disorientation, eyestrain, and headaches to the players who complain, including me. That's why I found a workaround to slow it down so I could play the game.

    NWN1 only has one camera speed setting, and the camera rotates at a reasonable speed, mimicking natural eyesight, as it should.

    The difference is so obvious to me, it's hard for me to understand how anyone could not see it, but I think the NWN2 camera issue must be a similar thing to the "blue-dress/gold-dress" and the "laurel/yanni" phenomena.

  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    I would buy it.

    Mask of the Betrayer is my favorite rpg ever. The story is just beautiful. I would certainly play an EE.

    MotB gets a lot of love, but I could never really get into it. The whole soul-eater mechanic put a clock on my play-style that I found very uncomfortable, and I play games to relax. Which isn't to say that I'm right and everyone else is wrong, I can well believe that if I got over my discomfort there is a great game waiting for me, but could never find it.

    OTOH, I seem overly fond of Storm of Zehir, which I think brought some great game mechanics to the NWN2 engine, and simply needed one more story-focused campaign with some depth to go with the mechanics to really shine. Sadly, that was where funding dried up :(

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,564
    I would buy it.

    sarevok57 said:

    i never seem to have camera problems in NWN 2 ( dont know if i mentioned this earlier ) but people keep saying that the camera in NWN 2 is way worse than it was in NWN 1 and yet, they both seem the same to me...?

    @sarevok57 , The problem is the speed of the camera turning. It's incredibly oversensitive, even at the lowest setting. The slightest touch at the edge of the screen causes the camera to jerk around violently, causing disorientation, eyestrain, and headaches to the players who complain, including me. That's why I found a workaround to slow it down so I could play the game.

    NWN1 only has one camera speed setting, and the camera rotates at a reasonable speed, mimicking natural eyesight, as it should.

    The difference is so obvious to me, it's hard for me to understand how anyone could not see it, but I think the NWN2 camera issue must be a similar thing to the "blue-dress/gold-dress" and the "laurel/yanni" phenomena.
    interesting, i use the arrow keys to turn the camera around and it turns around just fine, if you hold right click and use the mouse then yes, it's warp speed, but the arrow keys, even when maxed out i almost find it a little slow

    but with the mouse at the side of the screen with the arrow keys, perfect speed :)

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    I hate this idea!
    I suspect it depends on the characteristics of the machine the game is running on. The time-base is set relative to the speed of the machine, with the assumption that the player will adjust it manually. Wheras in NWN1 an absolute value for time-base is used.

    RaduzielProontelminster
  • demoixdemoix Member Posts: 19
    I love this idea!

    Fardragon said:

    I usually play in exploration mode, as I don't care for wasd controls, annd the top down view limits visual range too much less than bow/spell range.

    Yes, that's the one. I'm actually finding it totally serviceable this way.

    The AI is weird... I read that it tends to try to target whoever the selected caster is? And if that's in the back row then it just walks past your tanks and suffers attacks of opportunity? That's silly. I haven't noticed it because my Charname is a DEX-focused parrying bard/swashy, comfortable in the front row. Controlling casters (who need more control) seems harder with stuff like this. What might be useful for casters is to allow infinite cantrips (as they should be, come on 3.5) and use an AI script that prefers low-level spells. Then you can use them like magical archers, let them plink away with Daze or Flare at will, until you want them to cast a particular stronger spell, and then you can issue directions. Something like that.

    But anyway it seems like there are solvable problems here. Getting back to the thread topic, the pipe dream of Beamdog doing a multi-platform remaster that enhances what needs enhancing, I would look for something like:

    - Improve enemy AI
    - Improve party caster AI
    - Show a visual indicator of the selected PC's current target
    - Use the SoZ conversation method so that I can use my bard's bluff skill while keeping my dumb ugly tank in the front of the party without worrying about triggering dialogues
    - Set some good default values for basic controls in Exploration Mode and Strategy Mode
    - For Heaven's sake, fix the thing where you can't do inventory management or weapon switching while the game is paused. This is the WORST.
    - When I click on my current weapon in a quick slot, don't unequip the weapon! If there needs to be an easy way to switch to unarmed, just have a separate dedicated button for that.

    If stuff like that were done and I was able to play the game natively on different platforms (gold star for getting it to work on iOS) then I'd be interested enough to give Beamdog some money for their effort.
    This. I agree with everything and would love NWN2:EE to see daylight someday

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    I love this idea!
    NwN2 absolutely needs an improvement.
    I don't understand people that say that NwN2 doesn't need.
    That pretty much shows that they haven't even touched it, or even heard about it, nevermind played it.

    1) It's still very very buggy. There are bugs everywhere, from races, to spells (a ton there), to feats, to classes and Prestige Classes, to the campaigns.
    Some can be fixed with unofficial patches but not the hardcoded ones, unless you make a workaround.

    Plus the way it's designed, if you have an unofficial patch that fixes things, it's not compatible many times with class packs that add new stuff, unless someone merges the mods.

    2) It's still horribly unoptimized. As in, it makes modern PCs cry, especially when you turn Shadows on. Even without, it doesn't take advantage of multicore CPUs, which are the norm now.
    And there are reports that it might even run WORSE with modern CPUs, because it freaks out with multi-threaded CPUs.

    3) There are various glitches with the engine, such as WASD movement and other stuff that make moving around a pain. I believe the last patch somehow broke something with the movement and so it's been like that for a decade almost.

    4) The various models and animations are made in some outdated Autodesk 3DS Max format I believe, so it's a pain to make new models or animations. NwN2 modelers can better explain why it's a pain making new stuff for it.

    5) No Linux/Mac version unlike NwN1EE. Plus less DLCs.
    There's exactly 1 DLC/Adventure module for NwN2 which is Mysteries of Westgate.

    Kamigoroshi
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,007
    I love this idea!
    I'm rather worried about the news of Microsoft now owning Obsidian. If the IP rights of NwN2 were still in Obsidian's hands, then Microsoft has them now. Which means there is basically no chance of Beamdog doing an NwN2:EE, given that Microsoft isn't exactly known to give up on potential cash cows. And even if, it would very likely cost tremendous amounts of money to buy them off Mircrosoft...

    Of course, if Beamdog had already bought the NwN2 rights then this won't be an issue at all... well, one can hope at least.

    ThacoBell
  • 1varangian1varangian Member Posts: 320
    I love this idea!
    NWN:EE already makes enhancing 2 a pointless endeavour. It just needs expansions with new graphics.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    I love this idea!

    NWN:EE already makes enhancing 2 a pointless endeavour. It just needs expansions with new graphics.

    Huh?

    KamigoroshiThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,466
    I love this idea!

    NWN:EE already makes enhancing 2 a pointless endeavour. It just needs expansions with new graphics.

    Uh, no. NWN2 is actually fun to play, you know with actually decent story and companions.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,367
    I love this idea!
    Despite owning NWN and NWN:EE I find it to be the worst of all the D&D video games >_>. NWN2 on the other hand might be my favorite video game of all time, tied with Baldur's Gate and Pillars of Eternity.

    BelgarathMTHMirandelThacoBell
  • 1varangian1varangian Member Posts: 320
    I love this idea!
    There's nothing worth enhancing in nwn 2. You can play it already. It's not *that* old.

    NWN 1 on the other hand needed the enhancements to run on modern systems and the new graphical bells and whistles. And we don't want Beamdog to split their resources and MP community between two games with a toolset and DM client.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,466
    I love this idea!

    There's nothing worth enhancing in nwn 2. You can play it already. It's not *that* old.

    NWN 1 on the other hand needed the enhancements to run on modern systems and the new graphical bells and whistles. And we don't want Beamdog to split their resources and MP community between two games with a toolset and DM client.

    I think you should read Archaos' post above.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    I love this idea!

    There's nothing worth enhancing in nwn 2. You can play it already. It's not *that* old.

    The same is true of BG2...?

    I mean BG1 was old, with a teensy-tiny resolution of I think 480x640, and none of the imptoved engine that allowed so much modding on the BG2 platform. BGEE put the whole BG1 campaign into the BG2 engine, and then improved it, and then improved it again.

    Same for IWDEE: you get the IWD campaign(s) with all the improvements and moddability of the BG2 engine.

    But BG2 was on sale at GOG, it ran on several platforms, it was fairly bug-free with the FixPack, and it was extensively moddable with ToBEx. You can probably find posts of mine saying something like "There's nothing worth enhancing in BG2. You can play it already. It's not *that* old." (Note, NWN2 is about as old now as BG2 was when the EE was released.)

    So if you think doing BG2EE ended up being a good idea, then you should be able to see how NWN2EE could be a good idea.

    ThacoBellArtona
Sign In or Register to comment.