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wonder what's the rank you reach after the ending? (spoilers)

ArthasArthas Member Posts: 1,091
in Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition
So.. some questions:

1) Does the trascendent one have the memories of each one of your incarnations?
2) What's the rating\ranking you reach after having merged once again with everyone and finished the game as the best Nameless one (namely best stats in almost everything? Check this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQFCZdyWla4). ARe you a god ? A demigod?

Comments

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    well the max level you can get to if you open the sphere is 32 so i'd say merging would up it to 40.
  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 1,091
    No, I meant another thing. How powerful you are? Are you a god on the universe? more than a god? Something else?
  • PrinceOfDoomPrinceOfDoom Member Posts: 17
    1) Possibly. You became two separate entities when Ravel separated you. There is still a connection, but TTO exists to keep existing, and to keep TNO from ever finding and returning to him(it?). It probably had some vague goals set out, but its main purpose was to keep itself apart from TNO. It had the Shadows to gather intelligence for it, for the most part. At least, that's what I gathered.
    2) Fusing back with your mortality gives you both your mortality back(and triggers the Blood War Contract you originally signed with Fhjull Fork-Tongue. Trias was part of the whole thing to keep Fhjull from being able to call on the debt so when Trias finally dies or ascends back, the force keeping Fhjull vanishes and he returns to full power. The Contract is resumed once you have your Mortality back, which is why you are teleported to a battlefield.

    But, honestly, the Fiends have no idea what just joined the Blood War. The fusion of TTO and TNO probably brought the powers of both into the mix. TTO shows as he appears almost as armor around TNO before he sinks into his body.

    At this point, TNO pretty much is something beyond most demi-gods, and possibly lower ranked deities. He will wade into the Blood War and slaughter with the fury of a thousand, thousand lifetimes. Whatever man he was originally, he is something wholly different by the end of the adventure. And Fhjull has no hope of keeping him bound to the Contract.

    Also its very possible that TNO is still immortal after fusing with TTO. As in, unable to die of old age. Though the vital energy that TTO gathered over the centuries will probably give TNO the same regenerative abilities he had before. I don't know if he can keep getting back up after dying, but death is not the end in Planescape save for the True Death. Its quite possible TNO could transcend by dying into something more.

    I would say, on a Planescape level, that he is the embodiment of Torment... a multiversal constant in the same way Pain is and the Lady is a multiversal constant.

    Its a hard thing to quantify. But he and the Lady have alot of parallels. Assuming you believe that one planescape book written from her POV that may or may not be someone's wishful thinking on the ineffable... but its a nice idea.

    TNO has friends who will keep looking for him. He can find a way back into the City of Doors. After that... who can say. Annah, Dak'kon, and Grace will never stop looking for him, and finding him across the endless battlefields of the Blood War might be easier then you'd think. Morte would follow along. Because its fun.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited June 2017
    PrinceOfDoom said:

    And Fhjull has no hope of keeping him bound to the Contract.

    Point of order: I suspect you're vastly underestimating the ability of Devils to force those who sign contracts to actually keep those contracts. A devil won't release someone from a contract or allow them to break it for, just about (rare exceptions exist), any reason. I don't care how powerful of a mortal someone is or is not, that's nothing compared to devils as a whole. So, you defeat one devil? Another takes up the contract. The whole hierarchy of the Nine Hells is designed to keep contracts intact and to keep corrupting mortals by the enforcement of said contracts.
    PrinceOfDoom said:

    At this point, TNO pretty much is something beyond most demi-gods

    He is a MORTAL. So, no, he's definitely not. A powerful mortal is still just a mortal. And being long-lived and powerful doesn't make TNO immortal.
    Comparing him to the Lady of Pain is laughable. She's so powerful that no god, demon, devil, or any other entity will dare cross her, lest she simply flays them. TNO is a powerful mortal. That's like comparing an apple to a boulder; we all know a boulder is much larger.
    PrinceOfDoom said:

    I would say, on a Planescape level, that he is the embodiment of Torment... a multiversal constant in the same way Pain is and the Lady is a multiversal constant.

    No. He's a mortal at the end. That was the whole point of regaining his mortality. To actually be able to die. And I don't care how many artificial levels the game lets you get; TNO is still a mortal with all that implies. Just because he's basically now the Planescape equivalent of Elminster doesn't mean he's a bigshot in the greater Multiverse.

  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,669
    If we assume when he became whole again he had the memory of all previous selves, not only is he wise and intelligent and tactical and meticulous beyond comprehension but he has the magical, martial, and, possibly, divine power to back him up. He toyed with the laws of the mulitiverse when he was far, far less a being than he is now. I very much doubt his story ended in mindless Blood War battles forever.

    Mostly because the Blood War is over now so his contract is as well.
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,083
    edited June 2017
    I haven't ever seen Chris Avellone comment on how he envisions the Nameless One's story ending. However, if you received the ending where
    Fall-From-Grace vows to rescue the Nameless One from the Blood War
    you can be pretty sure his story doesn't end with the Blood War.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited June 2017
    WarChiefZeke said:

    Mostly because the Blood War is over now so his contract is as well.

    LIES. What is this blasphemy?

    I know they ended the Blood War at the end of 4th Edition, but that's mostly because 4th Edition was a huge mess and they wanted Asmodeus to be a god. AND tieflings to be mostly of Devil-origin. But I'm still salty about that. We're talking about a war that lasted eons, and it's ended because Asmodeus becomes a god?! Come on...!


    Nonetheless, by the time 5th Edition rolls around, you are correct, his contract ends. But he would be bound to that contract until a) FfG works it out OR b) the Blood War ends. I still maintain that TNO is mortal and thereby a peon in the grand scheme of the Multiverse. A powerful mortal is STILL mortal.


  • 11302101130210 Member Posts: 381
    I don't think TNO receives a divine rank at death. The whole point, I believe, is that you're trying to strip yourself of your immortality, the very aspect that makes you special.

    In regards to how powerful he WAS, he definitely at the end could've killed a lesser deity -> going off stats here and assuming TNO is like level 40.
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,083
    edited June 2017
    If I remember correctly, the reason TNO heads to the Blood War is the book is a lot different than it is in the game.

    In the game itself, TNO is fated to endlessly fight in the Blood War simply because the cumulative amount of bad behavior over his lifetimes exceeds the cumulative amount of good behavior. Most of the sins were committed by the First Incarnation, a being so vile that no amount of good behavior by "our" Nameless One could ever be enough to offset what the First Incarnation did. The events of Planescape: Torment happen because the Transcendant One wants to block TNO from regaining his mortality which would have the side effect of sending him to the Blood War.

    In the novelization, the First Incarnation isn't a huge villain but rather a normal person who sees his town threatened and agrees to spend his afterlife in the Blood War if Fhjull Fork-Tongue will save the town. The events of Planescape: Torment happen because Fhjull wants to help TNO regain his mortality so he can then begin his contractually obligated service in the Blood War.

    Post edited by jsaving on
  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 171
    I always dreamed that game like "Planescape: Blood Wars" will eventually be made and we will know the fate of TNO.

    I think it would be cool if he after ending of Blood Wars became God of Torment or something like that, but it would mean he would became enemy of Asmodeus and Loviatar or a servant of Asmodeus. ;P Or God of Mortality. :P
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