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Realistic party

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  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,204
    Artona said:

    And I agree about numbers - there is no logical explanation for limiting your party (pure game mechanics). So, the more the merrier!


    It is a tempting idea to "go Inquisition" in Baldur's Gate: after earning enough gold to buy some stronghold, and take it a operation base for you and your homies. Companions you do not need right now could spend time back there. That way you could easily gather entire cast of joinable NPCs to build considerable force of skilled warrior, thieves, mages...
    *sigh* There are some things modern cRPGs do better.
    NWN2 does it but I personally think that it broke immersion in the story .

  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201
    edited June 2017
    Artona said:

    And I agree about numbers - there is no logical explanation for limiting your party (pure game mechanics). So, the more the merrier!


    It is a tempting idea to "go Inquisition" in Baldur's Gate: after earning enough gold to buy some stronghold, and take it a operation base for you and your homies. Companions you do not need right now could spend time back there. That way you could easily gather entire cast of joinable NPCs to build considerable force of skilled warrior, thieves, mages...
    *sigh* There are some things modern cRPGs do better.
    Think of Firkrag's dungeon or Spellhold Maze or even Underdark. A small well equipped party is as effective as an army in those areas. There are pretty few open filed battles in the game (even Dragonspear Castle isn't won by the frontal attack).
    I like to think of my little elite squad like this, a band of companions/friends who trust each other, cover each others back and are most effective in those BG battles (A-Team, 3or4 Musqueteers, Green Berets).

    Like often in life, less can be more. More can easily be too much.

    DJKajuru
  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 506

    Artona said:

    And I agree about numbers - there is no logical explanation for limiting your party (pure game mechanics). So, the more the merrier!


    It is a tempting idea to "go Inquisition" in Baldur's Gate: after earning enough gold to buy some stronghold, and take it a operation base for you and your homies. Companions you do not need right now could spend time back there. That way you could easily gather entire cast of joinable NPCs to build considerable force of skilled warrior, thieves, mages...
    *sigh* There are some things modern cRPGs do better.
    Think of Firkrag's dungeon or Spellhold Maze or even Underdark. A small well equipped party is as effective as an army in those areas. There are pretty few open filed battles in the game (even Dragonspear Castle isn't won by the frontal attack).
    I like to think of my little elite squad like this, a band of companions/friends who trust each other, cover each others back and are most effective in those BG battles (A-Team, 3or4 Musqueteers, Green Berets).

    Like often in life, less can be more. More can easily be too much.
    "Going Inquisition" would not affect your party size, only convenience of selecting those you want to see in your party right now and helping to immersion by legitimate pretending those you left behind are doing something useful for the cause.

    Same with your "little elite squad" - right now you can get less than 6 party members, but can not go above the number, while "often in life" you would prefer to have an option - there are places where you need less people and there are places you would rather fill with an army.

    Artona
  • EmpyrialEmpyrial Member Posts: 107
    I assume that I'd end up as some sort of druid, cleric, or sorcerer (magic that's more intuitive and less about memorizing incantations) and I'm healthy but not warrior strong. So I'd have limited combat options outside of my magic, which tends to fit those classes.

    For BG 1:

    I'd take Imoen with me for sure because I need someone loyal and trustworthy after what just happened to me. I'd skip Montaron and Xzar because they seem like the type to sell me out at a moment's notice. And I wouldn't sleep well with Monty constantly threatening me. Xzar's insanity and thus unreliability also knock them off the table for me.

    I'd definitely take Khalid and Jaheira. Gorion said they were trustworthy and I trust his word. Plus, I'm thrown into this crazy world where magic exists and I'm way out of my depth so I'd look for knowledgeable people. I'd start looking for an arcane caster next and assuming I wasn't traumatized by having to fight for my life and kill people, I'd probably be down to try to kill a few gnolls to get to a wizard who isn't completely evil. Plus, if I really believe people are going to try to murder me, then I need to become stronger. I can't just try to hold up in the Friendly Arm inn. I need to become an active participant in the world and get strong. I'd be open to having more than a party of 6 though. In general, I'd likely be very distrustful so I doubt we'd amass too many people.

    For BG 2:

    Jaheira and Minsc are musts. We got tortured together and I will not let them suffer alone. Imoen is also a must-rescue. She's only in this because of me and I'm responsible for saving her. Yoshimo is out. I'd watchfully keep him with us until we got out then he's gone. He's way too convenient for me.

    I've liked Aerie from the start with her earnest desire to save you ahead of herself. The first thing she does when you meet her is to tell you to leave. She doesn't care about being rescued or ask for help, she just doesn't want another innocent hurt. I'd take her along with me because I like that nobility and when I find out she's got both kinds of magic, I'd definitely keep her as a valuable asset. I'd be a little nervous that she wouldn't be able to fight and kill but once she proved herself I'd accept her wholeheartedly in.

    I'd probably accept Anomen in the group so long as he didn't try to lead us on idiotic crusades. He's tough and an experienced fighter so his opinion, even if it will likely try to be the loudest one, might be useful.

    My last body would probably be Nalia. I like her "try and do good" mentality even if she is spoiled. Plus I need money so I might as well try to help a noble to get it. Plus she has arcane magic which would be useful. Imoen would rejoin us as person seven when we rescue her and all seven of us would go kill Irenicus.

    semiticgod
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,073
    NWN2 does it but I personally think that it broke immersion in the story .

    Maybe, but we are talking about realism here - if I were not limited by gampelay mechanics, I'd rather have more followers than six, and some secure base.

    Think of Firkrag's dungeon or Spellhold Maze or even Underdark. A small well equipped party is as effective as an army in those areas. There are pretty few open filed battles in the game (even Dragonspear Castle isn't won by the frontal attack).


    I don't agree here. Let's say we are exploring Firkraag's lair. How exactly less effective would it be, if besides charname's party (let's say Yoshimo, Jaheira, Minsc, Aerie and Keldorn), I would bring secondary support group of Valygar, Mazzy, Keldorn and Anomen? They could work as Flaming Fist in Korlasz Tomb. They could scout other areas, or secure our backs, or provide lines of supply, or make sure Firkraag force's won't try to seal us in the dungeon, or take care of wizard while Charname fights the dragon.
    I can see that there would be issues, because commanding twelve people is more bothersome than five, but it's not something that outweighs benefits.
    We actually can see that during final assault on Bodhi's guild. Is presence of Drizzt, not-uber-Gath and paladins somehow counterproductive?

    Mirandel
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    edited July 2017
    Every NPC that owns me a favor. And Imoen.

    BG1:

    Branwen (saved her/killed Tranzing), Viconia (saved her), Minsc/Dynaheir (aided him save her/killed Edwin), Imoen (old friend), Yeslick (saved him/killed Rieltar).

    Breaking the game mechanics: Ajantis (honor-bounded), Kivan (common goal: hunt Tazok), Khalid/Jaheira (Gorion trusted them).

    BG2:

    Jaheira/Minsc (common goal), Mazzy (saved her), Valygar (saved him/killed Lavok), Nalia (saved her keep/killed Tor'Gal), Viconia (saved her)

    Breaking the game mechanics: Keldorn (honor-bounded), Imoen, Aerie (saved her).

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,955
    Interesting that no one so far have chosen Garrick! (what I've read at least, but maybe I missed one) He'd definitely be on my list.

    I recently did a playthrough where I played something very similar to "me" in game. It was a cheated F/shadowdancer since it was a character which had the skills I would have aimed for I think, both some prowess in battle but also the pseudo-magic abilities that would let me get away when needed or setup the stage for battle my way. I've read countless books on strategy etc and I believe my in-game avatar would have done the same. I am not prone for violence IRL, so my character wouldn't be either. But overtime (reaching halfway through SoD) my character became ûber strong I and realized it changed my behaviour. I started to act more recklessly and I actually think that may very well be true to my RL persona.

    BG1
    Anyways, starting my journey I would most definitely follow Gorion's advice and head straight to FAI and met up with J and K. As soon as my sis Imoen came after me, I would hug her tightly and bring her with me. Having her with me would bring me comfort, knowing I was not alone and that we would always have eachother's backs. I am fiercely loyal to those I love. I would have J&K join with me throughout for reasons already stated in this thread ten times.
    I would continue south, probably straying on and off from the path to explore some. I am a curious person and with the added strenght from Immy and my two friends, I would dare to do it. I would hear the rumours of the powerful mage who has a store and go there, so I would meet Kivan on the way. He's a good guy, a ranger which is close to my own heart, so I would let him join me if he wanted to. It's his choice.
    We would continue down and meet Garrick, whom I would immediately let join the party. He's a kind person, has a big heart and we would drink and he would sing for us in the evenings. Good times!
    We'd continue on, slowly exploring, gaining exp, gold and boosting morale and courage. We would probably meet Neera and the battle would be unavoidable. I would help her but would never trust a wildmage.
    After some time we would go to the mines and do that quest. I'd let Xan join if he wanted to but only until we reached safety in a town (too many in the team I know, but I would never let him just find his way out himself! If some metaphysics blocked me, then I would make Jaheira lead the team out including Xan so they are 6 ppl, and then I would find my way out myself as a one-man party).

    Minsc, Edwin, Rasaad, Dorn I would never let join my team, so would maybe never meet Dyna. Minsc seem unreliable, Edwin is a complete lunatic who talks to himself, Rasaad seem like a great guy but I have no more room in my party and Dorn is a psycho who I might actually end up killing instead.
    Also, I'm not a religious guy and distrust ppl who feel to be guided by something other than themselves, so I would probably not have a cleric at all. I would rescue Branwen of course, but would not ask her to join us.

    After the mines etc I would move onwards, maybe I would bump into Ajantis but since paladins seem to be obnoxious a-holes, I would not let him join. Fanatics *sigh*.. same with Faldorn.
    Moving on I would meet another great drinking buddy, Coran. I feel we would become best friends right away. He would tell great tales while Garrick sang some songs, we'd drink beer around the fire in camp at night and I would idolize him (at least in the beginning). Jaheira would frown and tell me to not listen to him too much, but I wouldn't mind her. Khalid would listen to her and sit with her instead of the guys but secretly he would of course want to join the guys around the camp fire and chug beers and tell ridiculous tales. Our eyes would meet and I would nod against Jaheira and wink to him, letting him know we understand how he feel but that it's ok to prio his GF instead of us. Kivan would sit in silence, close but still not really in the group. He would listen in and sometimes smile but then quickly hiding it again. We would be great buddies but the group is growing to big and maybe my charisma is not high enough to keep them all (we're seven ppl now).
    After clearing out the bandits, one morning after we notice Kivan has left us. He would leave a small gift and leave seeking solace. The party would grieve the loss but all agree that he probably needed a lot of time alone to find himself again. We would move on knowing he was at least on the path towards inner peace.

    We would meet many more ppl on the roads and in mines and cities, but the team would be strong and our bonds and loyality would only increase over time. We would never split up. The ppl we meet notice this and don't join us, a few offers their services but we kindly turn them down.

    SoD
    Don't have time now :) it's fika time at work

    BG2
    Don't have time now :)

    ThacoBell
  • dibdib Member Posts: 384
    edited July 2017
    I'd probably head to FAI with Imoen, run away from that mage assasin near the entrance and let the guards deal with him. Then I'd go with Jaheira and Khalid to wherever Jaheira told us, because I'm definitely no leader and would prefer if someone more experienced told me what to do.

    Or alternatively, just get outta Dodge and hope everything blows over.

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,142
    I'm surprised so many here would take Jaheira/Khalid and be so accepting of the scenario that's presented.

    From my POV, the moment they started talking about sorting out the mines, basically putting my safety second, I'd say thanks but no thanks. Never have seen the logic for charname doing something like that after being attacked.
    You know somebody's after you, so let's get away from here. So perhaps travel with them, but going into the mines? Are you nuts?

    Also, no influence being a Bhaalspawn?
    Happy to be meek and mild cooped up in Candlekeep?
    I would have expected a fair number of people to be crawling the walls even without an evil Gods taint.

    You are twenty when you leave, Imoen would be a rival. Would have been for years in the scenario. You need the adults in charge to love you, care for you. You are both adopted. Children are survivors first and foremost.

    OK the above seems paranoid and obviously I'm a psychopath. But it's easily as likely a scenario but not one which is so popularly discussed. I would have expected more variety.

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,204
    Raduziel said:

    Every NPC that owns me a favor. And Imoen.

    BG1:

    Branwen (saved her/killed Tranzing), Viconia (saved her), Minsc/Dynaheir (aided him save her/killed Edwin), Imoen (old friend), Yeslick (saved him/killed Rieltar).

    Breaking the game mechanics: Ajantis (honor-bounded), Kivan (common goal: hunt Tazok), Khalid/Jaheira (Gorion trusted them).

    BG2:

    Jaheira/Minsc (common goal), Mazzy (saved her), Valygar (saved him/killed Lavok), Nalia (saved her keep/killed Tor'Gal), Viconia (saved her)

    Breaking the game mechanics: Keldorn (honor-bounded), Imoen, Aerie (saved her).

    Imoen saved you at the begining of BG2,. Touché!

    semiticgod
  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 506

    Children are survivors first and foremost.

    Actually, it's the opposite. This is why students and teenagers are the majority in any orchestrated riots and any movements potentially involving violence and death - youth does not learn to cherish life yet, physiologically incapable of calculation consequences (brain development issues) and can be easily talked into any heroics or "heroics". In our case in addition to all above - Charname is "the chosen one", "very special" and "important" - an irresistible attraction at that age.


    OK the above seems paranoid and obviously I'm a psychopath.

    Would not argue that but can trough in "too old to remember himself very young" yet keeping nihilism as a motto for life.

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,142
    Mirandel said:

    Children are survivors first and foremost.

    Actually, it's the opposite. This is why students and teenagers are the majority in any orchestrated riots and any movements potentially involving violence and death - youth does not learn to cherish life yet, physiologically incapable of calculation consequences (brain development issues) and can be easily talked into any heroics or "heroics". In our case in addition to all above - Charname is "the chosen one", "very special" and "important" - an irresistible attraction at that age.


    OK the above seems paranoid and obviously I'm a psychopath.

    Would not argue that but can trough in "too old to remember himself very young" yet keeping nihilism as a motto for life.

    Students and teenagers are not children. A very important change has occured, puberty and all the hormonal changes associated with it.

    Children are small, vulnerable and are at the mercy and whims of the world they find themselves in. Instinctively when very young, they are self centered and they want to live.
    And they are experts at picking up the subtleties involved in achieving that.
    They have to be, it's all they have. And the ones who don't or who can't wouldn't have made it until very recently in human history.

    Why do I have to remember it?
    My oldest is 27, my youngest 16, it's been apparent and demonstrated for the last 27 years observing the various interactions between my children and between my children and their peers.


    tbone1semiticgod
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    DJKajuru said:

    Raduziel said:

    Every NPC that owns me a favor. And Imoen.

    BG1:

    Branwen (saved her/killed Tranzing), Viconia (saved her), Minsc/Dynaheir (aided him save her/killed Edwin), Imoen (old friend), Yeslick (saved him/killed Rieltar).

    Breaking the game mechanics: Ajantis (honor-bounded), Kivan (common goal: hunt Tazok), Khalid/Jaheira (Gorion trusted them).

    BG2:

    Jaheira/Minsc (common goal), Mazzy (saved her), Valygar (saved him/killed Lavok), Nalia (saved her keep/killed Tor'Gal), Viconia (saved her)

    Breaking the game mechanics: Keldorn (honor-bounded), Imoen, Aerie (saved her).

    Imoen saved you at the beginning of BG2. Touché!
    Maybe Imoen is actually recruiting Charname and the entire Trilogy is about her!

    ThacoBelltbone1
  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 506
    edited July 2017

    Mirandel said:

    Children are survivors first and foremost.

    Actually, it's the opposite. This is why students and teenagers are the majority in any orchestrated riots and any movements potentially involving violence and death - youth does not learn to cherish life yet, physiologically incapable of calculation consequences (brain development issues) and can be easily talked into any heroics or "heroics". In our case in addition to all above - Charname is "the chosen one", "very special" and "important" - an irresistible attraction at that age.


    OK the above seems paranoid and obviously I'm a psychopath.

    Would not argue that but can trough in "too old to remember himself very young" yet keeping nihilism as a motto for life.

    Students and teenagers are not children. A very important change has occured, puberty and all the hormonal changes associated with it.
    Um... Are you implying Charname did not reach puberty yet? I thought it set quite clear that Charname is 20 year old (races do not count in this case otherwise we will never move forward - it's another overlook in the game).

    And since Charname is fully classified as a young (very young) being with full hormonal imbalance, no life experience but know-it-all and sure about everything - adventure with dangers involved is the very thing he/she wants and/or can be talked into.


    Children are small, vulnerable and are at the mercy and whims of the world they find themselves in. Instinctively when very young, they are self centered and they want to live.
    And they are experts at picking up the subtleties involved in achieving that.
    They have to be, it's all they have. And the ones who don't or who can't wouldn't have made it until very recently in human history.

    You are aware how many children die every year, don't you? In our very safe (relatively) times? Exactly because primitive instincts do not work in complex environment but curiosity (multiplied by stupidity, inexperience and inability to predict or even see danger) still there - hence, lots of tragedies.

    Sorry, I just thought, did you mean by that sentence about "children and surviving" that "real people would never take Imoen with them"? But that would be wrong as well, since - exactly because of childhood - familiar faces/objects is what people (and specifically children/youngsters) cling to under stress. If anyone, Imoen has to be forever in your party for just that very reason.


    Why do I have to remember it?
    My oldest is 27, my youngest 16, it's been apparent and demonstrated for the last 27 years observing the various interactions between my children and between my children and their peers.

    Depends, how you play, of course. I tend to play Charname as my avatar, but this is not a rule, obviously. In any case - observation and personal experience still different things.

    Now, your children are not orphans raised by monks in secluded academia with no other kids around, are they? Two kids in such conditions might grow quite differently from what you observed in your family. I'd say, BW got that right with Imoen and J&K.

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,142
    @Mirandel

    I think we maybe talking at cross purposes here.

    I said children are survivors, you said no they are not and introduced teenagers into the mix and started talking about riots ect.

    I didn't ever say "real people would never take Imoen with them".

    It was simply an observation that as this thread was meant to reflect "realism" that it was quite uniform in the choices made. And gave alternative scenarios to illustrate why there might be that variety.



  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 506
    @UnderstandMouseMagic Was trying to understand why did you mention children. But you are right, ended up almost offtopic. Let's just go back to the subject.

  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 677
    edited July 2017
    Well realistically I wouldn't really know where to go or who anyone was anyway. So I guess a good start would be Khalid and Jaheira, but it seems you literally run into Xzar and Montaron on the road to the friendly arm inn as well. It would take a few nights and conversations around the campfire to learn what Xzar was like anyway....=P After that you might sneak away quietly after dark or convince Montaron that this addled guy needs to be taken care off. But even that seems unlikely to succeed, since they're agents for the Zhentarim.

    Anyway Jaheira and Khalid seem like a decent start to learn about being on the road. I'm not sure I would stick around with them though.

    Gaining experience in Kagains small time mercenary company might not be such a bad idea either.

    "Gold runs the world kid, the faster ya learn that the better life'll treat ya."

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