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Rings of protection ruin game play

LoldrupLoldrup Member Posts: 132
Rings of protection IMHO have *negative* influence on BG game play:

First of, they add passive protection. No interesting game mechanic there.

Second, there are plenty of these things on the main route of BG, so there's no push towards having to hunt them down in exotic places. They thus don't instigate any 'drive' in you.

Third, they make BG easier. BG is plenty easy as it is, so that simply translates into: more boring.

Fourth, and worst: they make magic armor mostly pointless. Which is sad because magic armors *do* reside in exotic places which thus really could instigate you to go on adventure to hunt them down. If they were actually useful, that is. Which they aren't, because of protection rings...

Therefore, I have added protection rings and necklaces on my long list of banned things in BG.

Furthermore, I have decided that I won't sell these items when I find them. I will go to Beregost and simply dump them in the streets! Muahahaha!

(okay, that's not so evil.. but still!)
sarevok57OrlonKronsteenRavenslighttbone1

Comments

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 1,382
    I agree that the way rings of protection interact with magic armor is flawed - resulting in normal armor usually being preferable. In P&P the bonus from magic armor did benefit saving throws against things armor might be expected to help against (such as fireball), which gave the magic armor an extra edge.
    Loldruptbone1Arctodus
  • LoldrupLoldrup Member Posts: 132

    I foresee many happy beggars and common folk in the streets of Bereghost. :)

    but.. are ther actually any beggars in Bereghost..?
    Ravenslightdstoltzfus
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 514
    Loldrup said:

    I foresee many happy beggars and common folk in the streets of Bereghost. :)

    but.. are ther actually any beggars in Bereghost..?
    Plenty of silly beggars, if yer arst me.

    ZaghoulRavenslightLoldrup
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 514
    edited June 19
    In the PnP game, due to the armor and shields granting saving throws and the rings not stacking with either, rings were not as useful for warriors and clerics (and to a lesser extent, thieves and druids). They tended to go to mages, possibly a frontliner if it was VERY early.

    Of course, I haven't played PnP in decades so I'm sure this is all wrong, will derail the thread, cause a massive argument, get exasperated mods involved, and will trigger outsiders to invoke racism or homophobia or anti-Trumpism or the Pope or the Sultan of Swing.

    (And yes, I am trying to shift my alignment to chaotic, thank you.)
    RavenslightThacoBellLoldrupformer_customer
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 6,949
    Loldrup said:

    Rings of protection ruin game play

    Second, there are plenty of these things on the main route of BG, so there's no push towards having to hunt them down

    We are working on a mod that addresses this... :wink:
    mlneveseAquadrizztLoldrup
  • ZilberZilber Member Posts: 201
    Of all the things that are detrimental to gameplay, I can't say these rings count.

    My list?

    The Stupifier
    Wands
    Gauntlets of dex
    Gauntlets of OP
    Ankheg plate
    Everything Drizzt has

    These are much more powerful, and change the game more than the rings +1
    Loldrupsemiticgod
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 323
    @Zilber I agree with you, except for the Stupifier. Since the nerf, it's nowhere near as strong as it was before.
  • ZilberZilber Member Posts: 201
    @Arctodus It is still the second easiest +1 weapon to get, and gets a nice (if no longer blatantly overpowering) boost.
    Arctodus
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 658
    Zilber said:

    @Arctodus It is still the second easiest +1 weapon to get, and gets a nice (if no longer blatantly overpowering) boost.

    Given that one can get Varsacona-- in contention for the best weapon in the game-- with nothing but two characters, one bow, and a stack of arrows, the (nerfed) Stupefier hardly stands out as especially broken to me. In terms of weapons that shift the entire meta, I'd say there's Varsacona, the Chelsey Crusher, Spider's Bane, the Staff Mace, Drizzt's scimitars, throwing axes +1 (you can use them in melee for an unbreakable +1 weapon that costs like 50 gold), generic throwing daggers (2 APR with strength bonus, which can reach +7 even for charname mages and thieves), and all bows, (including the LCoS).

    And, of course, Tomes, but that kind of goes without saying.
    LoldrupArctodus
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 514
    Confession time: as someone who played D&D before many of you were born, the BG series felt like a bit of a Monty Haul campaign, and still does. However, I also recognize that it can be brutal at low levels, and that given CHARNAME's father one should be rather overpowered and well equipped, it doesn't bother me much.

    Except the tomes, it feels like they should be in SoA, not BG, if at all.
    mlneveseZaghoul
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 1,382
    SomeSort said:

    Given that one can get Varsacona-- in contention for the best weapon in the game-- with nothing but two characters, one bow, and a stack of arrows, the (nerfed) Stupefier hardly stands out as especially broken to me. In terms of weapons that shift the entire meta, I'd say there's Varsacona, the Chelsey Crusher, Spider's Bane, the Staff Mace, Drizzt's scimitars, throwing axes +1 (you can use them in melee for an unbreakable +1 weapon that costs like 50 gold), generic throwing daggers (2 APR with strength bonus, which can reach +7 even for charname mages and thieves), and all bows, (including the LCoS).

    @SomeSort why do you like the Chelsey Crusher? The only class where I might consider that a good weapon would be bards - who would rarely be meleeing in my BG1 games anyway. For fighter types the loss of APR means just a standard +1 halberd will normally do better damage.
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 658
    Grond0 said:

    SomeSort said:

    Given that one can get Varsacona-- in contention for the best weapon in the game-- with nothing but two characters, one bow, and a stack of arrows, the (nerfed) Stupefier hardly stands out as especially broken to me. In terms of weapons that shift the entire meta, I'd say there's Varsacona, the Chelsey Crusher, Spider's Bane, the Staff Mace, Drizzt's scimitars, throwing axes +1 (you can use them in melee for an unbreakable +1 weapon that costs like 50 gold), generic throwing daggers (2 APR with strength bonus, which can reach +7 even for charname mages and thieves), and all bows, (including the LCoS).

    @SomeSort why do you like the Chelsey Crusher? The only class where I might consider that a good weapon would be bards - who would rarely be meleeing in my BG1 games anyway. For fighter types the loss of APR means just a standard +1 halberd will normally do better damage.
    You answered your own question, there-- bards, and especially blades. Chelsey Crusher is a substantial melee boost to the class, enough, (in my opinion), to subtly shift the meta more in their favor than it otherwise would have been, especially given how early / easily it can be obtained. It's relevant that I'm mostly playing in a 1.3 environment where Offensive Spin boosts it to two APR; I don't know if that was patched away in 2.0.

    (This narrow applicability is also why the Staff Mace is on the list. Yes, it's technically the highest-damage one-hander in the game, but it's not really an upgrade to Varsacona for Fighter-types, especially considering how late you get it. But it's a big upgrade for Clerics, Cleric multis, and backstabbing thieves. And especially to Alora, whose luck bonus gets applied twice to brutal effect.)
    AndreaColomboThacoBell
  • Drizzt150Drizzt150 Member Posts: 1
    Join my BG:EE game "Assassin's hard work"
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 7,537
    tbone1 said:

    Confession time: as someone who played D&D before many of you were born, the BG series felt like a bit of a Monty Haul campaign, and still does. However, I also recognize that it can be brutal at low levels, and that given CHARNAME's father one should be rather overpowered and well equipped, it doesn't bother me much.

    Except the tomes, it feels like they should be in SoA, not BG, if at all.

    I have to agree.. in 30+ years playing the pen & paper version I have seem tomes maybe twice... and never a full set to raise all stats...
    ZaghoulRavenslight
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 285
    I would like to do a non-monty haul run sometime with item randomiser removing 75% of magic items and some xp reductions. Possibly it will cut into the power curve but may be fun to try once.
    mlnevese
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 863
    Well, I ain't to proud to admit I've been killed off MANY a times over the years with this game, no matter what kinda magic I'm carrying. Lil bitty ol rings, phhttt, I's like a tank sometimes, esp doin no re-load runs exclusively, (add in alot of solo (or 1 or 2 comp's) then even moreso). B)
    mlneveseRavenslightThacoBell
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 7,537
    Now I'm imagining all those beggars with rings of protection and flaming swords "asking" the poor adventurers if they can spare a coin :)
    RavenslightThacoBellSomeSort
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