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Rings of protection ruin game play

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Comments

  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    Quartz said:

    @SomeSort It's just odd to me because I spend a good ten hours a week writing about competitive meta for an internship – so I'm no stranger to the concept – yet I've played Baldur's Gate basically my whole life and I just don't see how discussing a meta for it could be interesting or enticing. There's too much of a random element, for one.

    I agree that discussions of the "meta" aren't really all that interesting with respect to BG. (I'd say the big reason isn't the randomness, but the fact that it is essentially fixed. When something like the addition of the Chelsey Crusher is one of the biggest changes I can think of offhand, you'll quickly run out of things to discover and discuss.)

    I just find it to be a handy linguistic shortcut. Most people know the word and what it means, so I can boil down a concept to a single word and feel confident it'll still be understood. ("Weapons that shift the meta" is more parsimonious than "weapons that impact general gameplay and/or the power level of individual classes relative to the others in a way that alters the plans one makes for and/or the order one plays through the game.")

    With that said, it should be pretty evident that I'm not really married to the concept of parsimony. ;)
    Quartzsubtledoctor
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,304

    Arunsun said:

    While ring of protection +2 does offer a very big advantage in BG1, I disagree that rings of protection +1 are so nocive to the game:

    -There aren't so many of them till lategame except if you go to Durlag's,
    -Most people will still rather a +1(or more) armor, losing 1 to saving throws, but gaining some passive effect or a lot of weight. And yes, weight is important unless you have Dorn or Minsc around because they can carry a lot.
    -They take a ring slot. Not a big deal if you are playing a party of 6, but with a more restricted party there are a lot of good rings already.

    Some items are much more gamebreaking. The ankheg plate in Nashkel, Varscona, Ashideena, the dexterity gloves, and even that free Dagger+2, in terms of early availability, the Dagger of Venom, the light Crossbow of speed, the ogre gloves, the cursed hill giant strength belt, Albruin and I probably forget some, are all empowering your character beyond what it should be at that point.

    The ogre gloves and the cursed giant of hill giant strength are both only available pretty late in the game. I don't think it's unreasonable that you'd start to accumulate some trinkets like that once you're in the city of Baldur's Gate. The game's almost over by then.

    The dagger of venom and light crossbow of speed also require a substantial financial investment. Most people probably don't buy them until at least the mid-game just because they don't wanna spend their whole fortune on a single trinket. And even when they do buy it I'm not sure they're "Empowering your character beyond what it should be at that point". The money's there by design. You've gotta spend it on something. I'm sure it occurred to the developers that the player would notice the shiniest trinkets in the weapons store and start saving up.

    There's even an unavoidable NPC who'll direct you to the Thunderhammer Smithy. It's not like you're using your knowledge as a veteran player to find something that most players would miss in their first go.

    The second part of my list was meant to be mid to lategame items. The point was to say that by the time you get more than a couple of rings of protection +1, you may also get some far more powerful, "gamebreaking" items.
    As someone said, there are 3 rings of protection before you reach BG.
    The gloves of dexterity will add up to +4 AC to some characters. Kagain for example, he goes from a pretty good fighter to an absolutely crazy one when he gets these, because they give +4AC from them. That, an ankheg plate mail, a +1 axe, a +1 small shield and a girdle of piercing, you can literally get all of these 5 items within one hour of playing, and Kagain's a beast that will trivialize every fight till the Cloakwood Mine, and even then he's still insane.
    I gave Kagain as an example because he really makes the most out of it, but Khalid gets about as much (swap the axe for Varscona), and then again they are examples. Once you get these, well adding a ring of protection +1 is the icing on the cake, but really nowhere close to as powerful.
    ThacoBellLoldrupSkatan
  • lelag200lelag200 Member Posts: 118
    I agree with those who say that rings of protection are perfectly fine. Really the only item that should be introduced later in the game is the ankheg mail. Picking it up from the dirt is a bit too indulgent so early in the game. The game difficulty at core setting is such a good balance. If you find it easy, it's because you've played plenty.
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 330
    One of the Rings of Protection that I can think of is only gotten if you know what to pick up and where to go to go ask for it. Considering it's in an unmarked house and takes a slight bit of backtracking to go get and tends to be missed at least once if not a few times by newer players.

    I'd say the fact that I can pick up 2 sets of low AC armour before I've finished the mines and before I can really put enough money together to buy them with just a little foreknowledge and no side tracking. As well as one of the best weapons in the game has a lot more affect on it than the rings. Specially since usually I can have 2 ankheg armours to put on my party shortly after Nashkel Mines because I have a knack for being able to kill one on my way out in many playthroughs.

    Which if that's your problem one of the item randomizing mods may work wonderful for you to make things more fresh and unsure when and where your going to pick up what strong item or reward.
    AndreaColombo
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,560
    fateless said:

    One of the Rings of Protection that I can think of is only gotten if you know what to pick up and where to go to go ask for it. Considering it's in an unmarked house and takes a slight bit of backtracking to go get and tends to be missed at least once if not a few times by newer players.

    I've played this game for 15 years and I didn't even know about this!
    lelag200AndreaColombo
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    fateless said:

    One of the Rings of Protection that I can think of is only gotten if you know what to pick up and where to go to go ask for it. Considering it's in an unmarked house and takes a slight bit of backtracking to go get and tends to be missed at least once if not a few times by newer players.

    There's also the hidden Ring of Protection on the crossroads map that players would originally have been very unlikely to stumble across without using a guide of some sort. Of course, the new "highlight containers" feature means the jig is up on that one. You can get two rings of protection +1 within four area transitions, (or three plus one transition back).
    tbone1
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 330
    LOL. I almost never remember the crossroads one quite honestly. What I've been trying harder to remember without resorting to looking up is the map that the squirrel is carrying the luck item since luck is finally fixed. Talk about a small but tangible bonus over the course of the game.
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,480
    Squirrel carrying luck item? Oh do tell. :) This is one I’ve not heard of before.
    Loldrup
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 468
    edited July 4
    Ahh, the infamous ring of Luck... that doesn't exist, sadly. :p
    RavenslightmlneveseThacoBell
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,480
    Perhaps it is merely a legend. Like the leprechaun’s pot of gold…

    (Begins digging through the Candlekeep library in search of squirrel lore.) :)
    Loldrup
  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 2,384
    Many squirrels have been slaughtered in the search for the alleged item of luck! I never knew about it back in the day, then read about it a year ago or so but immediately after read it doesn't exist and that it's just a hoax so I never got did go out there in search for it myself.
    RavenslightmlneveseArctodusLoldrup
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,054
    fateless said:

    One of the Rings of Protection that I can think of is only gotten if you know what to pick up and where to go to go ask for it. Considering it's in an unmarked house and takes a slight bit of backtracking to go get and tends to be missed at least once if not a few times by newer players.

    As it happens, I also didn't know about this and I wish to learn more.
    RavenslightmlneveseLoldrup
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 1,376
    @Ravenslight Haha, I was about to mention your Critter Parts mod with that myself. ;) Mr Tanner and squirrel pelts, hehheh. I suppose he might be the one to know, him and his boy. The Legend of the Lucky squirrel. B)
    RavenslightArctodus
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 330
    edited July 4
    Well I don't remember it being west of Nashkel is all I can say. I want to say it was south west or south southwest of beregost. But I could be remembering it wrong. I actually started out playing on the DVD version of the game and owned the 5/6 disc cd set for a very long time as well. The DVD version had slightly different maps in a couple places and a couple small things snuck in.

    Edit: I should set up an old OS offline machine and load up the dvd version and play it again some time. It would be fun.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 1,822
    edited July 4

    fateless said:

    One of the Rings of Protection that I can think of is only gotten if you know what to pick up and where to go to go ask for it. Considering it's in an unmarked house and takes a slight bit of backtracking to go get and tends to be missed at least once if not a few times by newer players.

    As it happens, I also didn't know about this and I wish to learn more.
    Talk to Mirianne in her house on the eastern side of Beregost to find out what she needs.

    No-one's mentioned it in this thread, but if you're not one of those do-gooders picky about your reputation then you can just kill Mirianne to get her ring - that gives you 2 rings of protection available for a mere 2 area transitions >:).
    AndreaColombo
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 17
    I think I might actually not know the third one.

    I know about the crossroads one and Mirianne's one, and you're all talking as if the third one's the really obvious one that everybody knows about, but I'm pretty sure I only pick up the two of them on my way to Nashkell.
    AndreaColombo
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 1,822
    I don't think anyone's suggested there are 3 prior to Nashkel. There is a third prior to Baldur's Gate though - from Tranzig.
    ChroniclerAndreaColombo
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 17
    Oh tranzig! I only found out about him recently!

    I knew you could pickpocket a glitterdust scroll, but I don't think I noticed the ring.
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 404
    fateless said:

    Which if that's your problem one of the item randomizing mods may work wonderful for you to make things more fresh and unsure when and where your going to pick up what strong item or reward.

    I know there's G3's Item Randomizer but I don't think Mode 1 (randomizes using in-game scripts, which means each new game gets new randomizing without having to re-run WeiDU) works with the Enhanced Editions

  • ZagaciousZagacious Member Posts: 47
    You bring up a point that is both a good and bad thing about the items in BG : EE. Placing strong items in random spots you might not have normally payed attention to is a good thing because it encourages you to explore the world. But after playing through it many times I noticed some of the best items in BG1:EE are too easy to get, it's only a matter of knowing where they are and you can get really powerful without actually killing that many things.

    Most of the items in the game are just passive bonuses, a majority if not all belts, helms, boots, and gloves just have passive bonuses. So I think what you're saying is just a problem of not having enough depth in items, which is true overall, there are very few 'active' items that are more useful than the other items with passive bonuses.
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