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If I dual-class a 18/00 STR fighter into a thief, does my thief retain the STR bonuses?

I was thinking of dual-classing at level 2 so I could jumpstart my thief in his THAC0 and damage.

Comments

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,752
    edited June 2017
    Yes, you'll retain all your stats, including 18/00 STR and bonuses that come from it.

    The question is whether you really want to play a fighter2/thiefX human character, instead of going for the multiclass F/T.

    OrlonKronsteenThacoBellAerakar
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 736

    The question is whether you really want to play a fighter2/thiefX human character, instead of going for the multiclass F/T.

    Or, if you do want to dual, whether level 2 is a good time to do it.

    JuliusBorisov
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,736
    Strength works the other way if you dual to a fighter from another class - you then don't get exceptional strength, making that less attractive as an option than it otherwise would be.

    JuliusBorisov
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859

    The question is whether you really want to play a fighter2/thiefX human character, instead of going for the multiclass F/T.

    Or, if you do want to dual, whether level 2 is a good time to do it.
    A F(2)>T dual isn't comparable to a F/T multi or a higher-level F>T dual. It's basically a pureclass thief that trades the potential to get a kit for exceptional strength and the ability to achieve grandmastery.

    Which, if you're in the mood to play a pureclass thief, is generally a very, very good trade.

    ArctodusAerakartbone1
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 736
    @SomeSort True, though if you hang on for just one more fighter level you get that extra fighter proficiency point and you can get grand mastery by level 8 thief.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,467

    @SomeSort True, though if you hang on for just one more fighter level you get that extra fighter proficiency point and you can get grand mastery by level 8 thief.

    Not til level 9 or later on 2.0+.

    OrlonKronsteen
  • thesoloerthesoloer Member Posts: 77
    If I dual-class a 18 CON thief into a fighter, will my fighter gain the bonus hitpoints that warriors get? Or is there no point in putting the thief over 16 CON?

  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859
    thesoloer said:

    If I dual-class a 18 CON thief into a fighter, will my fighter gain the bonus hitpoints that warriors get? Or is there no point in putting the thief over 16 CON?

    You will gain +4 HP per level for every level of fighter and +2 HP per level for every level of thief.

    So if you dual-class at level 4, you'll gain four levels of +4 and then six levels of +2 (because thieves get the constitution bonus at levels 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10).

    Is it worth it? Basically, those two stat points will net you 2 extra HP for every level of fighter you gain before dual-classing. If you're dualing at level 2, that's 4 extra HP, which probably isn't worth it.

    JuliusBorisov
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    If you are just talking about strength, it's easy enough to boost str to 19 anyway in BG, bypassing exceptional strength all together. Or you could start with a str 19 half orc.

    If you are looking st other factors as well, you should consider taking a kit, and/or fightering to higher levels (e.g. 7 for additional .5 apr).

    JuliusBorisovOrlonKronsteen
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,736
    Fardragon said:

    If you are just talking about strength, it's easy enough to boost str to 19 anyway in BG, bypassing exceptional strength all together. Or you could start with a str 19 half orc.

    I agree the tome is useful, although if you're playing in a party that makes it unavailable for NPCs. As the discussion's around dualling though half-orc is not an option.

    JuliusBorisov
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited June 2017
    If you play a half orc then you don't NEED to dual (and hence can take a thief kit).

    Sure, there are other reasons for dual classing, but the OP is specifically about strength.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,295

    The question is whether you really want to play a fighter2/thiefX human character, instead of going for the multiclass F/T.

    Or, if you do want to dual, whether level 2 is a good time to do it.
    pretty good time to dual i'd say, especially if you want to play as a normal backstabbing thief (that hides hiding repeatedly during battle and strikes once in a round)

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,752
    bob_veng said:

    if you want to play as a normal backstabbing thief (that hides hiding repeatedly during battle and strikes once in a round)

    Why not choose a half-orc shadowdancer then? :)

    AerakarFardragonThacoBell
  • thesoloerthesoloer Member Posts: 77
    SomeSort said:

    thesoloer said:

    If I dual-class a 18 CON thief into a fighter, will my fighter gain the bonus hitpoints that warriors get? Or is there no point in putting the thief over 16 CON?

    You will gain +4 HP per level for every level of fighter and +2 HP per level for every level of thief.

    So if you dual-class at level 4, you'll gain four levels of +4 and then six levels of +2 (because thieves get the constitution bonus at levels 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10).

    Is it worth it? Basically, those two stat points will net you 2 extra HP for every level of fighter you gain before dual-classing. If you're dualing at level 2, that's 4 extra HP, which probably isn't worth it.
    If I level a 18 CON thief to level 7 and then dual-class to a fighter, will I get seven levels of +2 and three levels of +4? I was thinking about viable options for a kit thief > fighter dual-class.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,736
    thesoloer said:

    If I level a 18 CON thief to level 7 and then dual-class to a fighter, will I get seven levels of +2 and three levels of +4? I was thinking about viable options for a kit thief > fighter dual-class.

    You'll get 7 levels of a thief at +2, but only 2 levels of a fighter at +4 - thieves have 10 hit dice, but fighters only 9.

    SomeSort
  • thesoloerthesoloer Member Posts: 77
    So if I am doing a thief > fighter dual-class, it is probably not worth it to have higher than 16 CON?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,467
    It's a question of opportunity cost - it depends on your stat roll, what those two points could do for you in another stat. If they would bring you CHA from 12 to 14, that is pretty meaningless and you might as well take the 4 hit points. If you can move another stat from 15 to 17 or something - or if you use my revised stats mod where almost every point in every stat counts for something useful to everyone - then you should put those two points somewhere else.

    OrlonKronsteenJuliusBorisov
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 1,863
    Yep and Grandmastery is a major boost to the Thief class as well. Greatly enhances the fighting abilities your thief will have in the long run.

    OrlonKronsteenJuliusBorisov
  • thesoloerthesoloer Member Posts: 77
    edited June 2017
    If I am doing a fighter > thief dual-class, would it be better to dual-class at level 2 or level 3?

  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 736
    thesoloer said:

    If I am doing a fighter > thief dual-class, would it be better to dual-class at level 2 or level 3?

    Either is fine. Functionally, you'll end up as a single-class thief with the ability to dual wield or gain grand mastery in a weapon, plus the ability to wear heavy armour if you ever decide for some reason to go into melee. If you dual at level 2 you'll become a thief faster, and you'll get your fighter abilities (those extra starting proficiency points) back sooner. If you dual at level 3 you'll get an extra proficiency point to spend and some extra hit points, but you'll have to wait an extra 2000 exp. points before dualing, and then you'll have to make it to level 4 thief to get your fighter abilities back. Personally, I'd prefer to dual at level 3, as it doesn't take that long to reach the level you want to dual at or get your original class abilities back, but I guess it depends on what you want from your game. If you're itching to be a thief right away, dual at level 2.

    JuliusBorisovThacoBellAerakar
  • thesoloerthesoloer Member Posts: 77
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859
    thesoloer said:

    If I am doing a fighter > thief dual-class, would it be better to dual-class at level 2 or level 3?

    Every level you gain as a fighter is better, but it incurs a cost in terms of (A) how long you're without a thief, and (B) how long after dual-classing it takes to regain your fighter skills.

    A F(2)>T dual requires you to go 2,000 XP without a thief and 2,500 XP post-dual to regain your fighter stuff. A F(3)>T dual requires you to go 4,000 XP without a thief and 5,000 XP post-dual to regain your fighter stuff.

    In exchange for that delay, you get 4-6 extra HP (depending on your constitution) and one extra proficiency point, which is not nothing. If you're an experienced veteran of BG1, it's really easy to zoom through that extra XP requirement so you don't even really feel the difference. (I could probably get a character to F(3)>T(6) within ten to fifteen minutes if I really wanted to, just because I know where all the massive XP spots are and how to game them.)

    If you're relatively new to BG1, though, the F(2) dual will unlock a lot faster for you, and the benefits of getting to level 3 aren't so earthshattering that you'll really miss them. BG2 is a complicated game, so for early runs I'd make everything as simple as possible. I think a F(2)>T dual-class sounds like a great idea for an early run.

    ThacoBellAerakar
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    SomeSort said:

    thesoloer said:

    If I dual-class a 18 CON thief into a fighter, will my fighter gain the bonus hitpoints that warriors get? Or is there no point in putting the thief over 16 CON?

    You will gain +4 HP per level for every level of fighter and +2 HP per level for every level of thief.

    So if you dual-class at level 4, you'll gain four levels of +4 and then six levels of +2 (because thieves get the constitution bonus at levels 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10).

    Is it worth it? Basically, those two stat points will net you 2 extra HP for every level of fighter you gain before dual-classing. If you're dualing at level 2, that's 4 extra HP, which probably isn't worth it.
    Start with 18, get some HP boost.

    Dual-class and get the Claw of Kazgaroth. Just packs some Antidotes and you'll be fine.

    BTW: I would never, ever, dual a Fighter before level 7. Recommended is 9 (max HP, more weapon proficiency slots). As a Thief, you'll not struggle to recover your Fighter's abilities. Just go to Mutamim's Garden, Cloakwood and the coast.

    WarChiefZeke
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    I think some people prefer to play without farming, xp cap removers and an eye on the Throne of Bhaal.

    Arctodussubtledoctor
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    One question:

    A Wizard Slayer dueled into a Thief keeps the item restrictions?

  • ZilberZilber Member Posts: 253
    Raduziel said:

    One question:

    A Wizard Slayer dueled into a Thief keeps the item restrictions?

    Yes. With the "use any item" high level ability, he/she loses that restriction though.

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