Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Axis & Allies 1942 Online is now available in Early Access! Buy it on Steam. The FAQ is available.
New Premium Module: Tyrants of the Moonsea! Read More
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

How do you normally beat Firkraag?

2

Comments

  • inkblowoutinkblowout Member Posts: 49
    Wow guys thanks for the tips. I've used some of those tips for fighting thaxll'ssillyia with 2 archers, 1 tank, cleric, mage and bard doing the additional damage.

    The most helpful opinion is to use proper defenses spells + positioning when fighting dragons. I feel that dragons focusing on my tank while he's getting healed by clerics or by extra healing potions help a ton while the rest does a ton of damage.

    And it took me the first try to beat thaxll'ssillyia. Not sure if the outcome would have been the same for frikraag but it does help a ton.

    Montresor_SPStummvonBordwehr
  • SloaneRangerSloaneRanger Member Posts: 17

    Well I finally defeated Firkraag after 3 hours I think... (Thank god, he was tough.)

    How do you guys normally beat him? I know some people have done it so easily with level 12 character/solo and I'm just in shock because Firkraag was hard.

    The key to defeating Firkraag and all the other dragons is the Lower Resistance spell. Normally the high magic resistance of the dragons mean that physical attacks are the only effective attack. However even with the dragon killing halberd +6, that takes some doing. Lower Resistance lowers their resistance so all magic attacks fully work. Magic Missile is very effective. The combination of physical and magical attack will make short work of Firkraag and any dragon in the games. One spell is required. Two is better. Thereafter the usual tactics (buff up and summon monsters) should make the battle easy.

    There is one Lower Resistance scroll in Trademeet. There are several more in ToB. Nalia and Imoen have the Intelligence to learn it. Aerie and Jan can learn it if their Intelligence is temporarily boosted with potions.

    IMHO the toughest dragon is Draconis in Throne of Bhaal. Much of the difficulty with Firkraag is the relatively low level of the party when you meet him but your party are demi-gods when they meet Draconis and he is still hard to kill.

    broshimosemiticgodStummvonBordwehrdunbar
  • broshimobroshimo Member Posts: 19
    edited September 2017
    Good recommendations by everyone. The ideas and tactics in this thread are great against every dragon, so in summary:

    By priority of offensive spells cast, it should be
    1. (optional) Cleric's Magic Resistance
    2. Lower Resistance (multiple times recommended)
    3. Breach/Pierce Magic to remove Stoneskin
    4. Breach (if it used other defensive spells)
    5. your choice of debuffers or disablers. Greater Malison highly recommended

    (option for non-hostile dragons only) If you have Aerie, have her cast the Cleric's Magic Resistance spell since it SETS magic resistance to caster level x2, ignoring target magic resistance and saves - especially useful since her cleric level isn't very high because of her multiclass.

    For pre-battle defensive tactics, the only spell buff I think isn't too metagamey is Resist/Remove Fear. Have a few hasted summons available, making sure they're spaced far apart from each other (to prevent them all dying from Death Spell), and that they're closer to the dragon than your party. Spread out your party as well, otherwise they'll be knocked out by the dragon's Wing Buffet. Have everyone use a ranged weapon until Pierce Magic is cast. Make sure your Lower Resistance mage is the fastest caster (i.e. Robes of Vecna, Amulet of Power), and stagger their order. IIRC both Lower Resistance and Greater Malison are projectiles so distance and casting speed are important to note!

    The dragon should be hostile after your first Lower Resistance, triggering its Stoneskin contingency. If you're against pre-battle buffing because it's too metagamey (though there are no surprise dragon encounters), this is a good time to start buffing. The great thing about hasted summons is that the dragon will use Death Spell and Remove Magic in some order, buying your melee-oriented characters a few rounds to buff and out of range from being debuffed. Once Breach/Pierce Magic* removes the dragon's Stoneskin, send in the cavalry. Sequencers containing a Greater Malison and save penalty disabler recommended. Spell redundancy is fine because the dragon might resist your spells. So most of your spells will now work. My personal favorite combo is Insect Plague (Jaheira) + Doom/Blind (Aerie via Minor Sequencer). Doing this on a dragon will make it wander around the map as if it were Horror'd - annoying but you'll escape with near 100% health!

    Paladin tip: don't use Carsomyr because your hard work may be dispelled :( I learned this the hard way against Irenicus' shadow dragon.

    * I remember reading somewhere that a dragon's Stoneskin is only removed via Pierce Magic. Haven't checked to confirm so I use both.

    edit: wrong information and formatting

    Post edited by broshimo on
    semiticgodPermidion_Stark
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    Fought him first time since my 2y break, what a blast ;-)

    Easy tactics for reasonably mid level party with not that many people and not much cheesing:

    1. Realize that aggro in BG2 doesn't necessarily work like aggro in MMORPG
    2. Take a mage, protect with: protection from fire, mirror image, stoneskin, protection from fear, spell immunity: abjuration
    3. Have the rest of the team way back, far beyond Firkraag's line of sight. Have them protected from fear, fire, hasted and ready. Will be faster if you invest in potions of heroism as well.
    4. Start the fight with the mage - decrease magic resistance.
    5. Dragon will buff and unleash hell on the mage, but with those protections it should be fine.
    6. Wait for the initial attacks to pass - if mage got wing buffeted away, run close again. It is imperative that the dragon focuses on the mage.
    7. Once the initial flurry of attacks has passed, join the fight with the rest of the team.
    8. Mage's role should be a) using breach asap b) minding their protection (renew mirror image and stoneskin as soon as you notice that they actually got hit with something)
    9. Dragon should be dead soon.

    Bonus: it helps if the mage has already access to 6th level spells - Improved Haste and Protection from Magic Weapons are the two spells you will want to have, as they will both speed up the fight (use IH on your best warrior and protection once you run out of stoneskins).

    It's a fairly simple tactics that relies on the fact that no matter how much damage the dragon gets, his attention is mainly on the spellcaster. Obviously some luck is needed but I think that if you are not going to cheese it with cloudkill or traps, this tactics gives you more than enough fighting chance. You can even summon some critters but remember to keep them next to warriors far away in the beginning of the fight. Once Firkraag concentrates on the mage, he might forget to kill them fast.

  • recklessheartrecklessheart Member Posts: 691
    People have invented a wide range of tactics, some of which manage to kill off Dragons in 2 rounds of combat. Crazy!

    For my part, I rarely put too much stock in my melee characters to take down the SoA Dragons. I position my melee characters (usually 3 of them) at different places in a triangle around Firkraag so that a wing buffet will not immediately clear the field for him to attack my spellcasters, nor encourage him to use fire breath. Lower Resistance is great; Mazzy or another archer will consistently help out in a way that your melee character cannot because they'll be quaffing potions and closing the gap after wing buffets.

    My casters do much of the work by ripping Firkraag apart with Wands of Lightning which are a fantastic upgrade from Magic Missile for an occasion like this one.

    Preparing for battle, resistance to fear and fire are critical. Mirror Images will spare some party members from the risk of a fire attack too if you don't have even fire proofing for everybody. Protection From Evil Radius 10' is as wonderful here as everywhere else in the game, and Defensive Harmony can provide some critical cover for your melee characters - no matter how many healing potions you have, a Dragon can quickly overwhelm any NPC if they don't attempt to wing buffet them away!

    Later, strategies involving Time Stop will be valuable, and melee HLAs will allow these characters to survive and contribute more critically than they can in the early game.

    This is one strategy, and it is far from foolproof. If you can hold the frontline for long enough and have more than 1 Arcane character, Greater Malison (and even Doom) can give you a plethora of new options. Some people one hit kill them with Chromatic Orb or Finger of Death, but if that isn't your thing - and Dragon fights should be lots of fun, so don't feel bad if you forego this route - you can try Glitterdust or Ray of Enfeeblement to bring the Dragon's power down to civilized levels. That allows you to proceed with a bevy of options as suits your style.

  • VitharVithar Member Posts: 70
    Have something to dispel the Stoneskin , buff your characters and place them right next to him so you can ''open'' on him 1st.
    I think melee oriented setup of heroes is better and if you have some summons near him to distract him while the knocked back ones come back to hit him.
    If you have Lightning Wands , you can use them with the casters from behind at an angle that doesn't hurt the melee guys.

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,141

    Well I finally defeated Firkraag after 3 hours I think... (Thank god, he was tough.)

    How do you guys normally beat him? I know some people have done it so easily with level 12 character/solo and I'm just in shock because Firkraag was hard.

    The key to defeating Firkraag and all the other dragons is the Lower Resistance spell. Normally the high magic resistance of the dragons mean that physical attacks are the only effective attack. However even with the dragon killing halberd +6, that takes some doing. Lower Resistance lowers their resistance so all magic attacks fully work. Magic Missile is very effective. The combination of physical and magical attack will make short work of Firkraag and any dragon in the games. One spell is required. Two is better. Thereafter the usual tactics (buff up and summon monsters) should make the battle easy.

    There is one Lower Resistance scroll in Trademeet. There are several more in ToB. Nalia and Imoen have the Intelligence to learn it. Aerie and Jan can learn it if their Intelligence is temporarily boosted with potions.

    IMHO the toughest dragon is Draconis in Throne of Bhaal. Much of the difficulty with Firkraag is the relatively low level of the party when you meet him but your party are demi-gods when they meet Draconis and he is still hard to kill.
    There are Lower Resistant Scrolls,

    In one of the chests in the room where the blind, former Unseeing Eye followers are "living", next to the room with the tomb with the Kangaax skeleton pieces (so it's free whoop, whoop)

    The merchant you save from a mugger at night in the "City Gates" area sells one.

    There are others dotted around, you really need it long before TOB IMO.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • squirossquiros Member Posts: 23
    i only play vanilla bgt, so i'm not sure if this works anymore. but feeblemind replaces dragon scripts. essentially, they will lose all of their spells and innate abilities. they won't attack until half health and even then, will only use their melee attacks. feeblemind also isn't hostile (i believe this was changed) so you can cast until it succeeds. 

    semiticgod
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 513
    squiros said:

    i only play vanilla bgt, so i'm not sure if this works anymore. but feeblemind replaces dragon scripts. essentially, they will lose all of their spells and innate abilities. they won't attack until half health and even then, will only use their melee attacks. feeblemind also isn't hostile (i believe this was changed) so you can cast until it succeeds. 

    Not 100% sure as i don't tend to use the spell much, but i think if it works then the enemy literally just stays in 1 spot drooling on the floor and will not retaliate at all whilst you beat it to death.

    ThacoBellsemiticgod
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,141
    Borek said:

    squiros said:

    i only play vanilla bgt, so i'm not sure if this works anymore. but feeblemind replaces dragon scripts. essentially, they will lose all of their spells and innate abilities. they won't attack until half health and even then, will only use their melee attacks. feeblemind also isn't hostile (i believe this was changed) so you can cast until it succeeds. 

    Not 100% sure as i don't tend to use the spell much, but i think if it works then the enemy literally just stays in 1 spot drooling on the floor and will not retaliate at all whilst you beat it to death.
    I use it and if it lands that's exactly what happens to dragons. It allows me to mess around and share out the "dragon kills" between the NPC. Then each NPC has a nice named enemy in their record to be proud of.
    Very silly I know.

    BorekPermidion_Starktbone1JLee
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,594

    Borek said:

    squiros said:

    i only play vanilla bgt, so i'm not sure if this works anymore. but feeblemind replaces dragon scripts. essentially, they will lose all of their spells and innate abilities. they won't attack until half health and even then, will only use their melee attacks. feeblemind also isn't hostile (i believe this was changed) so you can cast until it succeeds. 

    Not 100% sure as i don't tend to use the spell much, but i think if it works then the enemy literally just stays in 1 spot drooling on the floor and will not retaliate at all whilst you beat it to death.
    I use it and if it lands that's exactly what happens to dragons. It allows me to mess around and share out the "dragon kills" between the NPC. Then each NPC has a nice named enemy in their record to be proud of.
    Very silly I know.
    @UnderstandMouseMagic Hah! I do that too! Everyone has to have a powerful enemy on their kill list. My character has to have the most powerful one typically. My romance has to have the second most powerful one usually.

    The first time I played BG2, however, I used Feeblemind on Lavok. It took me a while to figure out why he wouldn't die. Finally I guessed he was supposed to surrender and I dispelled him.

    UnderstandMouseMagic
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,141
    edited September 2017
    @Tresset

    Glad I'm not the only one. :)

    I might start a thread about it and ask who people see as being the most deserving of the various kills and why.

    Poor Lavok, trying to do the right thing at the end and some careless Bhaalspawn comes along and feebleminds him so he can't remember WTF is going on.

    "So" says Valagar, " you want to see the sky one last time?"
    "What's the sky" mumbles Lavok, " can you eat it, I'm feeling a bit peckish? And you are...?"

    TressetBlackravenlolien
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,955
    By joining him. ;) I am hoping one of our excellent modders will come up with a 'workin for the man' mod with lots more quests for master Firkraag. That would be awesome. Especially for some of us humanoid race players. B) Ogres, lil kobolds, gnolls, orcs,etc.

    ShikaoUnderstandMouseMagicBlackraven
  • molemole Member Posts: 1
    Beat Thax'll at level 10 and Firky at level 12. No cheese from cloudkill or traps. The key to fighting dragons is the anti-fear and protection against their chosen breath weapon, plus encircling them. Do NOT engage in melee unless you absolutely have to. First job is to debuff their saves and magic resistance.

    Party for Firky:

    Keldorn
    CHARNAME_2 - Adfric, Elven Fighter/Thief I did BG1 with
    CHARNAME_1 - Ranwen, Human Ranger/Cleric
    Jaheira
    Jan
    Nalia

    So 2 divine casters, 2 arcane casters, 3 fighters. Only one character (Adfric) died, but he's quite squishy due to dual-wielding CF and Peridan.

    Summoned skeleton warriors, plus Jaheira's Fire Elemental and Nymph.
    Buff up pre-fight - Protection from Evil, Resist Fire, Remove Fear, Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Draw upon Holy Might (both Bhaalspawn in the party can do this).

    Ranwen tanked, Flail of Ages + Saving Grace, Holy Might, Blade Barrier.
    Keldorn had the big heavy crossbow from the beholder cult loaded up with Bolts of Biting.
    Jan and Nally had Bolts of Wounding, Jaheira Sunstone Bullets.
    Jan had the Robe of Vecna on so super-fast casting time.

    Round 1-2 - debuff ol' fiery. Pierce Magic x 2, Doom, Greater Malison, Miscast Magic, Insect Plague, Keldorn super-dispel.
    Round 3 onwards - mages spam Magic Missile, Jan tries a Feeblemind (occasionally that sticks, and it's VERY funny).
    As soon as any summons die, Jaheira re-summons. A screen of mobs around him so Firk only knocks a few party members down with wing buffet at a time.

    ArdulBlackraven
  • inkblowoutinkblowout Member Posts: 49
    OP Update: I know this could be considered as Nercoing since this post is pretty old. But ever since I made this thread you guys have have made my dragon battles a lot, lot easier for me and you guys are awesome for that.

    Hell I would even say that fighting dragons is my favourite battles in BG2. (Shame there is only 9 existing dragons in the entire game. And I only killed 6 of them :( because being a good guy and all.)

    I've also recorded some of the fights since I did enjoy them so much. :)

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=kwNS4wnTjIA&index=3&list=PLNPGGHcRM4qvgymvyNjMFg7tKWfNTmW_r

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=E5P8E4E4ydA&index=4&list=PLNPGGHcRM4qvgymvyNjMFg7tKWfNTmW_r

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=kiBPudvLjDI&index=2&list=PLNPGGHcRM4qvgymvyNjMFg7tKWfNTmW_r

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=eXKGjR9A-7w&list=PLNPGGHcRM4qvgymvyNjMFg7tKWfNTmW_r&index=1

    Blackraven
  • Drizzt150Drizzt150 Member Posts: 3
    Usually I bring a monk and just use Quivering palm and he dies

  • AttalusAttalus Member Posts: 156
    All three mages (Immie, Nalia, and Neera) have Chain Contingency loaded with a combo of Lower Magic Resistance, Breach, and Abu-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, and then they fire spell sequencers with a mix of Chromatic Orb and Magic Missile. Works like a charm. But, yeah, Protection from Fire and fear are pretty much a must.

  • matricematrice Member Posts: 86
    edited April 2018
    a technique that you can use against any tough opponent (i think only 3 of them who are really special among boss are immune to it): fatality + malediction + bolt of jansen.

    btw; most (but one) dragons die all the time to malediction + finger of death (but you mb don't have the level for it)

  • ReliantReliant Member Posts: 30
    First, I have my tanks and summoned fodder engage him and distract him from my spell casters.  I have Nalia and Aerie hit him with lower resistance followed by greater malison.  Next comes the minor sequencers with double chromatic orbs!  I then have Nalia and Aerie keep the chromatic orb bombardment up, if needed.

    gorgonzola
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 417
    If i don't cheese, i usually have a cleric with Easthaven and armor of faith + fire & fear protection.
    Use this character to kite/tank and everyone else just dispell, malison and pelt him with projectile or magic, whatever i have available.

    It doesn't take much more effort than that.. if i have a thief with good trap laying i'll of course lay down 7 surprises for him.

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    Doesn't Firk use a lower fire resistance effect? As in, isn't it normally pointless to work at fire resistance and better to just pelt him with everything you've got from a distance, so he'll blast only 1 char at a time? Was the lower redistance taken out?? Using arrows of dispel from a couple good archers to keep him debuffed and just go to town. 

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,831
    DreadKhan said:
    Doesn't Firk use a lower fire resistance effect? 

    afaik he does not, at least in vanilla, while the tactics mod fire giants do.

    anyway my usual way is
    1.lower his magic resistance
    2.lower his saving throws
    3.turn him to stone
    4.rest if is needed, it depends on how many mages i have and if they can use PI and/or spell recharging loops
    5.turn him to flash again
    6.go to 1

    after 5-10 loops i allow myself to use a feeblemind after 2 as i am pretty sure that the party can pull out the trick easily and in a reliable way.

    if the pally sword is not needed he can remain in stone form and the party is free to return to his lair whenever they need to boost their xp.
    when i get bored of it or i milked enough xp 
    6. MM, he is at 1 hp and a MM can easily kill him
    7. collect the loot.

    this is not for cheese purpose, is cause he is so arrogant and does not deserve anything less, what is more humiliating than see how the puny humans (elves, dwarves, gnomes or whatever) he planned to play with in a such devious and evil way for his own fun only are in reality playing with him and further more using him to get a lot of free xp on top of his most valuable treasure, the sword...
    try to imagine his feelings in the short moments when he is in flash form, fully aware and badly wounded, knowing that he will soon be again turned to a stone statue. 

    lolien
  • gmazcagmazca Member Posts: 60
    I believe the last time I beat him it was:

    Cleric casts Magic Resistance (thereby setting Firkraag's MR to a much lower value) ---> Cast Feeblemind.

    He just stands there while you beat up on him. Kinda cheesy, but effective.

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,098
    I usually kill my dragons by using by using the lower resistance + feeblemind trick on them. If that doesn't work that it's wand of lightning abuse . It works for me because you can do it at any point in the game, while relying on fighters requires good equipment and thac0.

  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 543
    Even with SCS and solo, Firkraag is a pussy cat begging to be slaughtered. This formula is really straightforward for a fighter/mage type character:

    1) Make yourself immune to his attacks (Stoneskin + Mirror Image / PFMW)
    2) Make yourself immune to fire (scrolls/potions etc)
    3) Make your saving throws safely negative (various means, or just Potion of Magic Shielding)
    4) Make your buffs undispellable (SI Abjuration + Spell Shield)
    5) Enhance your fighting prowess however you can (strength potions, oil of speed or Improved Haste)
    6) Kill that kitten by charging in and cutting him to ribbons.

    You need to renew your buffs when they expire (e.g. SI Abjuration) and a few Breaches speed things up in getting through Stoneskins. But it’s basically foolproof and you’re under no risk of even being scratched.

    gorgonzolalolienAndreaColombo
  • DavidWDavidW Member Posts: 728
    I heard a rumor that Firkraag may have been studying the Breach spell.

    Jaheiras_WitnessBlackravenlolienAndreaColombo
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 543
    Haha, I hope so! I haven’t tried latest version yet. But still, Breach ain’t getting past either SI Abj or Spell Shield, let alone both. Old Firki needs to have a sequencer at the ready, like Spell Thrust/Secret Word/Breach. That will give the player something to think about. I would suggest him getting a PFMW or two also, but maybe he’s not meant to have level 6 spells? Otherwise, if you want to mean, how about a couple of Invisibility spells, or a Minor Sequencer Invisibility + Mirror Image when he gets in trouble to buy a couple of rounds to put his defences back up?

    Blackravenlolien
  • DavidWDavidW Member Posts: 728
    I prefer keeping Firkraag's spells relatively low level, both to differentiate him from some ToB dragons and to make dragon combat feel a bit different from mage combat - but there's always room to experiment.

    How well does your F/M formula work for ToB dragons - Anadramatis in particular?

  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 543
    The general gist of “make yourself untouchable and undispellable” would not change, though the component spells and complexity would. It’s been a long time since I last played ToB to the end so I can’t remember precise details. I seem to remember Time Stop being handy ;)

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,831
    edited February 11
    i did never try it but...
    use the staff of command domination spell on the big lizard, no save and he is not immune afaik.
    so you end up with the party members and the lizard ally, no enemies in sight, let your thief use all his traps, he can as no enemy is around, and let your mages use skull traps in the same place, where no one is in to trigger. then order to the lizard to reach the mine carpet and watch him explode, the damage from the skull traps should make him hostile so should trigger the thief traps against him.
    i did never try, but if it works it would be probably the easiest way to kill him.
    maybe is needed to lower his magic resistance, doom and gm him before lure him in the traps carpet but as you can make him go in wherever place you like as he is dominated it should not be a problem to do it. he in a corner of the room, the traps about in the middle, your casters hasted cast the needed spells and run around the traps, he will try to reach them and as he is slower will run right where it hurts.

    now i probably don't have a saved game suited to test it, but if someone can do it and report here the results would be great.

    and it is no cease at all, the domination without save from that staff is clearly intended, is how it is supposed to work. and as the only enemy is dominated to prepare the ground for his destruction is only the safest and easiest way to continue the battle, is not like setting traps before he turns hostile and you don't even have to attack him before starting dialogue, you walk in, talk to him, tell him that you want to kill him and as he turns hostile you use the staff. this is elegance, is using an item for what it is supposed to do and get the best advantage from it. attacking the lizard without telling him that you will is not elegant, is quite lame imo.

    DreadKhanlolienAndreaColombo
Sign In or Register to comment.