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How does a Mage/Sorcerer kill a Golem all "alone"?

Whatever else they might have, every Golem has 100% magic resistance, which makes it obligatory for mages to resort to the help of their fellow party members for dispatching those pesky constructs. One can obviously use 3-4 Lower (Magic) Resistance spells per Golem, but it sure isn't a way to destroy them when there are many of them attacking you. I think there is some kind of quarterstaff somewhere that insta-kills constructs, but that just is not the proper "style". (It's cheesy, as people say.) So, is there any way for a lone mage to kill a Golem in a graceful and dignified manner?

Also, I don't think most mid-level summons would be good choices since they often don't have the weapon enchantment required to hit some of those constructs, and are themselves very, very vulnerable to those massive crushing attacks.

Comments

  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 483
    Many ways. Melf's Minute Meteors are a start. A mage with IH and protection spells can also just kill them with a quarterstaff. Summons can start from Level 5, I guess (elementals)? Polymorph self: Ogre also can hurt them.

    Also unless you want to abuse resting, a lone mage can get a lot of mileage by picking his battles and just use invisibility in the beginning.
    semiticgodRik_Kirtaniyalolien
  • malachi151malachi151 Member Posts: 120
    Firstly, the staff isn't cheese, it's there for a reason. Secondly, what Ammar, thirdly, Tensor's Transformation + Stoneskin + weapon of choice...
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 2,193
    Find a pinch point and hide behind an invisible familiar while you nibble it to death. If it's one of the big golems you don't even need an invisible helper - just duck through a doorway it can't get through.
    StummvonBordwehrlolien
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 483
    Grond0 said:

    Find a pinch point and hide behind an invisible familiar while you nibble it to death. If it's one of the big golems you don't even need an invisible helper - just duck through a doorway it can't get through.

    This is cheese, though. :)
    Rik_Kirtaniyalolien
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,153
    Cast Mordy's Sword (to keep it occupied) , cast Haste and pile in behind the sword with your weapon of choice.
    Rik_Kirtaniya
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 12,613
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 52
    Thanks everyone for sharing your ideas. I think the best weapon against Golems available right from chapter 2 is the Sling of Everard. (Isn't it?)

    @dunbar Your idea of using Mordy's swords as tanks against Golems is a brilliant one, especially, as these swords are invulnerable to physical damage (I didn't know this until I saw the Wiki just now). At least, it feels much more satisfying standing boldly behind those swords, than hiding behind invisible familiars or invisible summons, but until one gets a level 7 spell slot, there's no way but to be satisfied with the latter, or avoid constructs altogether.
  • ariakas2ariakas2 Member Posts: 13
    No need to avoid constructs, melfs minute meteor kills any golem including clay golems. It is a +5 weapon so nothing is immune. Other than that if you have 16+ strength or strength enhancement items just haste yourself and attack with a staff, they will die. Another method is cast 3-4 lower resistance to golem while keeping yourself buffed with stoneskin, mirror image and shield then cast magic missile. They go down fast with this method also.
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    edited November 8
    That Melf's meteors are +5 weapons is a mistake. There is absolutely no justification for this. They might have merited an attack bonus, since it's a ranged weapon and wizards have awful THAC0, but tiny globes of fire should NOT go through defenses of extremely strong, enchanted opponents.

    A staff that breaks constructs? Familiars for distraction? Almost as bad. It's things like these, and when I learn that people use these tactics, that make me wonder wildly what the hell is wrong with these games.

    You want to know how a wizard would kill a golem in any balanced, sensible implementation of the rules? He would not be found without a retinue of fighters in situations like this to begin with. And he would have powerful enough creatures to summon. And his options would otherwise be few against 100% magic resistance, which is what it's there for - to make people look for solutions other than magic. If he were extremely powerful, he would cast Shape Change, turn into a dragon, fly into the sky and melt the golem down.

    If only there was at least an attempt to recreate that. Instead we have stupid, childish cheese that is a disgrace to discuss. But people must do and recommend it, because they have nothing else. :#
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,302
    Imprisonment is the quickest/easisest way to take out an annoying Adamantite golem.
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 52
    chimeric said:

    That Melf's meteors are +5 weapons is a mistake. There is absolutely no justification for this.

    Well @chimeric , is there any justification against this? At most, it can be said that the spell should have been given at a higher level, or that the enchantment bonus could have been graded by level, just like the special effects from chromatic orb. If a spell like MMM cannot do things like hitting a magically resistant opponent with absolute surety, a wizard would be unjustly deprived of one of the few survival resources that he might have against things like these mechanical giants, that are otherwise invulnerable to most of the vast repertoire of magics that the practitioners of the Art possess.
    chimeric said:


    If only there was at least an attempt to recreate that. Instead we have stupid, childish cheese that is a disgrace to discuss.

    How about asking Jan to create a rocket launcher to smash the Golems to pieces? :lol:

    ThacoBell
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163


    Well @chimeric , is there any justification against this? At most, it can be said that the spell should have been given at a higher level, or that the enchantment bonus could have been graded by level, just like the special effects from chromatic orb. If a spell like MMM cannot do things like hitting a magically resistant opponent with absolute surety, a wizard would be unjustly deprived of one of the few survival resources that he might have against things like these mechanical giants, that are otherwise invulnerable to most of the vast repertoire of magics that the practitioners of the Art possess.

    That's the problem! You, we, are not given enough other ways to deal with these challenges except cheese like that. To begin with, we shouldn't be put in a situation where we have to take them head-on. And there are sometimes ways around, like Invisibility. That's the really sound advice in this thread, for sure. But is that all? Where is good AI to trick? Where are special abilities to distract monsters, where is the terrain factor, where are bottlenecks? Standing in a door a golem is too big to get through is as close as we get. I'm not even a fan of fighting at all, but I practically dream of the corridors and rooms of the first Diablo. The engine here is very old, but where is the designer effort to make it smarter? But even with this engine. What if I told you that there are ways, even now, to get rid of monsters instead of killing them, to dispatch them, make them neutral, take their XP worth without killing them? Or draw them away from where they are on the map? It's all possible, but no one but a few crazy modders even contemplates code like that. And if those means appear...

    ...Players will ignore them, because why bother, when they can summon +5 weapons out of thin air?

    Cheese is not anybody's fault, certainly not players'. It's the consequence of dumb, limited options.
    Rik_Kirtaniya
  • ariakas2ariakas2 Member Posts: 13
    But Baldur's Gate and D&D is all about cheese anyways. Isn't magic cheese itself? You can bend reality without cause and effect relationship. For story of BG, you become a god from a mortal in 100 days or so? Thats cheese in steroids. So i dont mind using some cheese tactics in game:D
    StummvonBordwehrThacoBellGrond0therdre
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 2,193
    chimeric said:

    Cheese is not anybody's fault, certainly not players'. It's the consequence of dumb, limited options.

    That's one point of view. Looked at from a different angle the game is in fact offering the wide range of tactics that you say is needed - you're just limiting the ones you choose to take advantage of based on your particular playstyle. Personally I think one of the biggest reasons the game has lasted so well is because it offers such a wide variety of ways to play it.
    ThacoBell
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 418
    edited November 9
    If you install Spell Revisions then MMM, and many other spells, are less overpowered. I go farther in my own play as well, for example I never melee in timestop - as I didn't allow it in p&p - and disable opponents' ability to do so via SCS.

    Back on topic Golems are fairly mindless. I see nothing wrong with avoiding them or trapping them in certain cases. Better than doing the same to a fire giant say. The key to placing them in a game should be area design, it would add a nice puzzle element if dodging a super strong opponent around some pillars in order to pass an area or gain a reward was implemented a little more, rather than just smashing them - should be much more difficult to smash a statue than to avoid it in any case.... I always enjoy the challenge of getting the items in the DeArnise keep with a hasted character without fighting *my* golems once I take the stronghold. Argent's golem construction mod is nice on this, and alters golem immunities as well.
    StummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 7,000
    That'll show them smartass squirrels.
    ThacoBelltbone1Balrog99dunbar
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 438
    edited November 13

    Golems should be immune to Lower Resistance, but you can still decrease their MR using Pierce Magic and Pierce Shield.

    Why would golems be immune to lower resistance? I recall feebleminding them in (original) BG2, and feeblemind is a level 5 spell as well.
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 7,000
    Golems are supposed to be immune to magic. They wouldn't be very immune to magic if magic could remove their immunity! I'm guessing that Feeblemind was bugged to bypass MR.

    For some reason, though, the immunity to Lower Resistance never applies to Pierce Magic or Pierce Shield. I think that was just an oversight. Demogorgon has the same immunity.
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 438
    edited November 13

    Golems are supposed to be immune to magic. They wouldn't be very immune to magic if magic could remove their immunity! I'm guessing that Feeblemind was bugged to bypass MR.

    For some reason, though, the immunity to Lower Resistance never applies to Pierce Magic or Pierce Shield. I think that was just an oversight. Demogorgon has the same immunity.

    It wasn't bugged, had lo lower it first, then feeblemind. I don't remember any spell immunitites on golems, though; once you lowered their mr, you could also just magic missile them. edit: Demogorgon is flat out immune to lower level spells.
    Rik_Kirtaniyasemiticgod
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 2,567
    edited November 14
    chimeric said:


    Well @chimeric , is there any justification against this? At most, it can be said that the spell should have been given at a higher level, or that the enchantment bonus could have been graded by level, just like the special effects from chromatic orb. If a spell like MMM cannot do things like hitting a magically resistant opponent with absolute surety, a wizard would be unjustly deprived of one of the few survival resources that he might have against things like these mechanical giants, that are otherwise invulnerable to most of the vast repertoire of magics that the practitioners of the Art possess.

    That's the problem! You, we, are not given enough other ways to deal with these challenges except cheese like that. To begin with, we shouldn't be put in a situation where we have to take them head-on.
    You could still get invisible and pass by them. I don't see the logic of giving a full xp reward for such a simple strategy, but perhaps the rewards given to thieves when they open a lock/ disarm a trap.

    @chimeric I have read most of your posts recently and I believe that you are seeing the glass half-empty , I mean, there are a million things that could easily be done with BG games , such as improved dialogue options, non-weapon proficiencies, alternatives to avoid combat etc , but I should remind you that SoA is such a classic because it's done things that a million games hadn't done before.
    I'm an oldschool player as well, just not a modder because I'm quite incompetent at programming, and I'm not saying criticizing most of the things we see at fantasy games is wrong because I also feel the lack of important elements, but I also feel that you've been through denial, anger and now you're at the negotiation part of it - trust me, you don't wanna dive into the next stage which is depression but rather skip it and face the ultimate stage for solving a problem : acceptance.
    Rik_Kirtaniya
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