Why aren't we all ithilids' slaves?

Artona

Semi-serious question: why isn't entire Faerun under the rule of Underdark creatures by now?
My party is in clearing lair of beholders and it just occured to me: entire Baldur's Gate that we see in the first game could be annihilated by 5 of them or less. Denizens of Underdark are very powerful, and usually evil - so I'm really not sure why they won't conquer the surface.
Is there any explanation in lore? Is it because of insufficient numbers? Is surface inhabitable for them? Any other reason?

Zaghoul

Seems like for the chaotics at least, we have in-fighting going on that hampers the cooperation needed to gather under one banner. For the Kuo-toans, I believe they used to inhabit the upper lands at one time and were driven to undersea caverns and their numbers pushed to near extinction by the land dwelling races for a time. But they would seem to be growing in power again.

Illthids though, not sure, maybe they over analyze to much with that superior intellect, drawing up long, long, long range plans. hehheh.

semiticgoddess

It might be the same reason humans never took Antarctica from the penguins. We might be able to wipe out the locals, and we might even be able to establish a sustainable colony there given the right plan and some heavy investments in capital, but we haven't bothered because we have other places to be and more profitable things to do. Fishing in Antarctica might be cost-effective under the right circumstances, but the various fishing companies of the world have better places to fish.

I have no idea what mind flayers would want in the Underdark specifically, but it's entirely possible that the surface world simply isn't as useful for them.

Artona

@Zaghoul - yeah, I haven't thought about alignment, and for some creatures it definitely can be deciding factor indeed. However, both ithilids and beholders seems to be organised enough to undertake invasion.
@semiticgod - I'm not sure with cost-effectivness. I think that surface has gigantic advantage over Underdark: it's much safer.
If I were a mind flayer, I'd rather face humans, dwarves and sun elves instead of beholders and drows.

Grond0

I think the question comes from a slant of - "surely these creatures of darkness could wipe out a bunch of peasants". Remember though that the surface races are not all just peasants . Given that solo adventurers regularly kill entire cities of illithids it seems reasonable to me that they would be just a little wary about showing their ugly mugs.

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JoenSo

If your interaction with

the Elder brain in Hordes of the Underdark

is anything to go by, we might all already be their blissfully ignorant slaves. -insert Matrix meme-

Artona

Grond0 said:

I think the question comes from a slant of - "surely these creatures of darkness could wipe out a bunch of peasants". Remember though that the surface races are not all just peasants . Given that solo adventurers regularly kill entire cities of illithids it seems reasonable to me that they would be just a little wary about showing their ugly mugs.

I'm not so sure. Thing is, peasants are overwhelming majority of all races, both surface and underground - but underground peasant will probably be much more dangerous than surface peasant. 1st level drow warrior will have advantage with his magic resistance, for example.
And - aren't there any mindflayers adventurers? :P

Mantis37

In the old FR lore this problem also existed with regard to the race of beings known as the Phaerimm. They were partially responsible for the fall of Netheril and the growth of the desert Anauroch. They were all 20th level+ spellcasters, and so extremely powerful, controlling the beholder cities etc. So why didn't they dominate Faerun? Well... mages of an even more mysterious race known as the Sharn- who could cast multiple spells simultaneously- used mighty magics from the school of tropes to wall the phaerimm in... and then enigmatically yet conveniently disappeared. So the illithids can get in the bloody queue .

PaulaMigrate

They are hiding in the Underdark from their most powerful enemies - the githyanki. Those were their former slaves until the rebellion of Gith. Githyanki claim that their rebellion will continue until the last illithid is eliminated. Those illithids you find in Underdark are in fact survivors of the githyanki crusade. They are a mere shadow of their former self and happy to have that shelter. Their plans for expansion are minimal, the Athkatla sewers is as far as they came.

Artona

@PaulaMigrate, @Mantis37 - thanks for sharing that lore.
I shiver to think what ithilids will do when they replenish their numer tho. And beholders still scare me.

scriver

Sahuagin is the top dog in both numbers and power and they raid the Underdark even more frequently than the surface. The Underdark don't rule the world because the Sahuagin keep them in check. Then why, you ask, so the Sahuagin not rule the world? The answer is simple - they already do. Every part they give a damn about, that is.

Read for perspective: http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Races_of_War_(3.5e_Sourcebook)/A_World_at_War#Borderlands_of_the_Sahuagin:_Sore_Winners

Artona

That was interesting input, @scriver, thanks.
TBH I'm not sure whether this article is canon, but it makes very plausible rock-paper-scissors stalemate. :>

sarevok57

actually, in SoA at least, there are some hidden as in literally the "hidden" and i think it deals with mind flayers trying to take over/ rule athkatla ( if you find the hammer of thunderbolts and do jan jansen's quest, there is a little bit of insight on it )

Zaghoul

The Illithid letter I always thought a nice touch, esp. regarding the Lovecraftian (IMO) nod to the mere sight of it being painful to even see. It always left me wanting to know more.

Illithid Correspondence
This note has sections written in several languages, some so alien as to be painful to look at. A small section is written in common as follows:
'The base is established and the infiltration continues. The Hidden gathers followers and soon we shall dominate the minds of the entire...'
The message continues in one of the more alien scripts. The Illithids are up to something as typical of the race, but your being here has most likely disrupted their plans.

brunardo

Whoa @scriver that article link just blew my mind with the all mighty fish people...makes sense though

Squire

From what I remember, the Underdark is a very different environment to the surface. In the Underdark, you can hear the slightest sound from, like, 20 miles away if your ears are keen enough, but on the surface, wildlife and the weather will mask most of that (IIRC this is the one thing that Drizzt noticed immediately on leaving the 'Dark). There's also the sun, which would probably be painful to somebody who spent their lives underground and are not used to it, and haven't developed the type of eyes that can withstand such conditions.

Also, I think the 'Dark is meant to be super-dangerous, and Illithids aren't really hunters as such... they're powerful when they can mind-blast you from 10 feet away but if you get the drop on one and stick them with arrows before he even knows you're there, he's not so powerful then. They're not particularly tough or skillful, everything they do relies on psionics. I seem to remember having very little trouble killing them once I got close enough to actually hit them.

Third reason: they don't really have a peasant/working class, because they rely on slaves for everything. I think they'd struggle to build a colony and start enslaving people in an unfamiliar area with an environment that they're not used to, with the whole world trying to kill them - not many Underdark races are going to be all "Look at those things building a colony! Let's unite and kill them all!" but on the surface people might do that... question is, can their mind powers out-range a longbow, and how many people can they stun/dominate/make-not-a-threat at once?

Just my thoughts.

dreamtraveler

-What do you do for a living ?
-i am an illithid slayer
-But illithids don't exist
-Yeah because i slew them
-...

ThacoBell

Because the Illithids are afraid of bees. And rightly so.