Basically people who are asking for more classes want a classless system.
Why have classes in the first place if they don't bind your character to a certain skill set or template? The more classes you add to your character, the less the class system matters and the less it reflects what the character is about.
3 classes is quite enough for any kind of character concept. Allowing any more would only cater to mechanical optimization of stats and undermine the class based system itself.
Basically people who are asking for more classes want a classless system.
Why have classes in the first place if they don't bind your character to a certain skill set or template? The more classes you add to your character, the less the class system matters and the less it reflects what the character is about.
3 classes is quite enough for any kind of character concept. Allowing any more would only cater to mechanical optimization of stats and undermine the class based system itself.
No it's not. Especially in a game like NWN where Warriors, at epic levels, end up more powerful than wizards. The game needs more flexibility.
That is also true, but I suppose that adding Level 10 spell slots and/or more spell slots for normal level progression would not be impossible if BD unlocks that as well.
Basically people who are asking for more classes want a classless system.
Straw man. 4 classes are available in NWN2 and the class system is very much alive. This looks like a "I can't understand why anyone would ever need 4 classes, so I don't want it" style argument. Why is 4 wrong, but 3 OK? There's no logic to it.
An argument needs to be made as to why 4 is bad, not just because you don't want it. If you truly feel that it is not a worthy enhancement, please explain why. Arguments based on the opinion that you don't like it, are not really a valid criticism.
An argument needs to be made as to why 4 is bad, not just because you don't want it. If you truly feel that it is not a worthy enhancement, please explain why. Arguments based on the opinion that you don't like it, are not really a valid criticism.
Because the dev time is far better spent on basically anything else?
An argument needs to be made as to why 4 is bad, not just because you don't want it. If you truly feel that it is not a worthy enhancement, please explain why. Arguments based on the opinion that you don't like it, are not really a valid criticism.
Because the dev time is far better spent on basically anything else?
That is just a statement. Can you provide an argument with points to back up your statement?
Sorry for the late reply. I have not dug into this forum much beyond the pinned threads.
How is GetLevelSum( oPC ) different from GetHitDice( object )? Is it truly necessary? It may make more sense to just make sure GetHitDice() handles a 4th class properly. Modules may need to update their code to handle a 4th class, so if that's considered game breaking, I suppose that could a guidepost on deciding wether to pursue supporting a 4+th class or not.
D&D 3.0 does not have a limit of how many base classes a character can have, so as long as the player understands he is paying an experience point penalty, there should be no limit at all. Yeah, there is the issue of front loading abilities in some classes, but the fix is 3.5, anything else is a quickfix and unlike many pnp sessions, in NWN players want and can get their characters to the highest level (so the xp penalty can be take effect).
Sorry for the late reply. I have not dug into this forum much beyond the pinned threads.
How is GetLevelSum( oPC ) different from GetHitDice( object )? Is it truly necessary? It may make more sense to just make sure GetHitDice() handles a 4th class properly. Modules may need to update their code to handle a 4th class, so if that's considered game breaking, I suppose that could a guidepost on deciding wether to pursue supporting a 4+th class or not.
-Dave
I'm totally new to the scripting of nwn. I just saw the example adding up levels manually, i thought they do this because of the lacking command set. As far as i see, GetHitDice already handles arbitrary number of classes, so it is exactly what i meant. For all i see it was even created before GetLevelByPosition.
I'm totally new to the scripting of nwn. I just saw the example adding up levels manually, i thought they do this because of the lacking command set. As far as i see, GetHitDice already handles arbitrary number of classes, so it is exactly what i meant. For all i see it was even created before GetLevelByPosition.
Basically people who are asking for more classes want a classless system.
Why have classes in the first place if they don't bind your character to a certain skill set or template? The more classes you add to your character, the less the class system matters and the less it reflects what the character is about.
3 classes is quite enough for any kind of character concept. Allowing any more would only cater to mechanical optimization of stats and undermine the class based system itself.
The available classes don't represent every character concept that a player might want to play. There are a lot of character archetypes that aren't possible in NWN. There's no guarantee that Beamdog or any custom content makers will ever add them to NWN. A fourth class would allow players to make their character a little more like they envision without relying on Beamdog and/or custom content makers making that specific archetype.
D&D 3.0 does not have a limit of how many base classes a character can have, so as long as the player understands he is paying an experience point penalty, there should be no limit at all. Yeah, there is the issue of front loading abilities in some classes, but the fix is 3.5, anything else is a quickfix and unlike many pnp sessions, in NWN players want and can get their characters to the highest level (so the xp penalty can be take effect).
I had a fellow player in 3.0 days that as a joke to play around with the mechanics made a character with 1 level in each PHB core class. We called him "The Sampler"
"Could we perhaps allow one to choose as many as x base classes and y prestige classes, to a maximum of z total classes? (where x, y, and z each = any integer)"
Basically people who are asking for more classes want a classless system.
Why have classes in the first place if they don't bind your character to a certain skill set or template? The more classes you add to your character, the less the class system matters and the less it reflects what the character is about.
3 classes is quite enough for any kind of character concept. Allowing any more would only cater to mechanical optimization of stats and undermine the class based system itself.
The available classes don't represent every character concept that a player might want to play. There are a lot of character archetypes that aren't possible in NWN. There's no guarantee that Beamdog or any custom content makers will ever add them to NWN. A fourth class would allow players to make their character a little more like they envision without relying on Beamdog and/or custom content makers making that specific archetype.
Which archetype or concept can't be done with 3 classes?
I can only think of the battlemage archetype, and that requires the Elritch Knight PrC instead of a 4th class.
Basically people who are asking for more classes want a classless system.
Why have classes in the first place if they don't bind your character to a certain skill set or template? The more classes you add to your character, the less the class system matters and the less it reflects what the character is about.
3 classes is quite enough for any kind of character concept. Allowing any more would only cater to mechanical optimization of stats and undermine the class based system itself.
The available classes don't represent every character concept that a player might want to play. There are a lot of character archetypes that aren't possible in NWN. There's no guarantee that Beamdog or any custom content makers will ever add them to NWN. A fourth class would allow players to make their character a little more like they envision without relying on Beamdog and/or custom content makers making that specific archetype.
Which archetype or concept can't be done with 3 classes?
I can only think of the battlemage archetype, and that requires the Elritch Knight PrC instead of a 4th class.
Which archetype or concept can't be done with 3 classes?
I already answered this in the other thread. With the existing classes, I can't build a HiPSing Assassin Arcane Archer with only 3 classes, which is a pretty archetypal Shevarash follower.
As far as concepts go, if you have extra classes, then there are piles of concepts that require 4 of them as NWN2 has proved (and don't worry there are people in NWN2 that like to restrict classes too - there are always those who think that they know what's best for everyone else).
Of course you can make these concepts with fewer classes - if you open up all Feats to all classes then all you need is one class; but then it's not D&D...
Basically people who are asking for more classes want a classless system.
Why have classes in the first place if they don't bind your character to a certain skill set or template? The more classes you add to your character, the less the class system matters and the less it reflects what the character is about.
3 classes is quite enough for any kind of character concept. Allowing any more would only cater to mechanical optimization of stats and undermine the class based system itself.
The available classes don't represent every character concept that a player might want to play. There are a lot of character archetypes that aren't possible in NWN. There's no guarantee that Beamdog or any custom content makers will ever add them to NWN. A fourth class would allow players to make their character a little more like they envision without relying on Beamdog and/or custom content makers making that specific archetype.
Which archetype or concept can't be done with 3 classes?
I can only think of the battlemage archetype, and that requires the Elritch Knight PrC instead of a 4th class.
As @Thorsson mentioned there are many NWN2 builds that utilize 4 classes.
For role playing one may want to represent a character that tried many different careers before finding their true calling. @Dark_Ansem mentioned Elminster, a Fighter 1/Rogue 2/Cleric 3/Wizard 24/Archmage 5.
Then there are challenge builds for multiplayer servers where people will try to build a character to solo a powerful boss designed to challenge a whole party, either for bragging rights or out of necessity as player bases have declined.
In the last blog it mentioned that you could vote up this thing but I dont see it in the input board. What is up with that?
https://trello.com/c/TTG8gn79 is on Beamdog's Trello board, which either means it is not eligible for votes, or doesn't need them (since it is already on THEIR board)
It is, however, on their board in the "Needs more discussion" category, so I think the conversation here should probably steer more towards how to do it right than if it is done.
So the 4th class is all about powergaming and mechanical optimization. Nothing wrong with that but it shouldn't be the focus of a D&D game.
Whether it is or not the focus should be decided by the player (in the OC campaign) or by whoever plays DM (in a multiplayers setting), it should not be something hardcoded.
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Why have classes in the first place if they don't bind your character to a certain skill set or template? The more classes you add to your character, the less the class system matters and the less it reflects what the character is about.
3 classes is quite enough for any kind of character concept. Allowing any more would only cater to mechanical optimization of stats and undermine the class based system itself.
Why do you feel this is not worth the effort?
Sorry for the late reply. I have not dug into this forum much beyond the pinned threads.
How is GetLevelSum( oPC ) different from GetHitDice( object )? Is it truly necessary? It may make more sense to just make sure GetHitDice() handles a 4th class properly. Modules may need to update their code to handle a 4th class, so if that's considered game breaking, I suppose that could a guidepost on deciding wether to pursue supporting a 4+th class or not.
-Dave
the character was as useless as it sounds
How 'bout.
I can only think of the battlemage archetype, and that requires the Elritch Knight PrC instead of a 4th class.
As far as concepts go, if you have extra classes, then there are piles of concepts that require 4 of them as NWN2 has proved (and don't worry there are people in NWN2 that like to restrict classes too - there are always those who think that they know what's best for everyone else).
Of course you can make these concepts with fewer classes - if you open up all Feats to all classes then all you need is one class; but then it's not D&D...
For role playing one may want to represent a character that tried many different careers before finding their true calling. @Dark_Ansem mentioned Elminster, a Fighter 1/Rogue 2/Cleric 3/Wizard 24/Archmage 5.
Then there are challenge builds for multiplayer servers where people will try to build a character to solo a powerful boss designed to challenge a whole party, either for bragging rights or out of necessity as player bases have declined.
"Soloing a powerful boss" in not an archetype.
So the 4th class is all about powergaming and mechanical optimization. Nothing wrong with that but it shouldn't be the focus of a D&D game.
It is, however, on their board in the "Needs more discussion" category, so I think the conversation here should probably steer more towards how to do it right than if it is done.