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I sided with the Shadow Thieves first time, & why I sided with Bodhi each additional time *SPOILERS*

MakeAthkatlaGrtAgainMakeAthkatlaGrtAgain Member Posts: 132
in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
I sided with the Shadow Thieves and I saw their torture center and torturer. And I was really horrified. Victims left in there tortured for months.

This was way worse than the vampires.

Now siding with Bodhi is supposedly the evil path, but as a matter of ethics I'd side with the vampires so I could end that torture center each game. And then I later exterminate the vampires so both mafias are gone.


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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2017
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,002
    the only problem doing it this way is that you wont be able to kill renal bloodscalp, which wears one of the only 6 pairs of boots of speed in the entire game ( SoA and ToB both ) so that is why i always side with the shadow thieves in chapter 3 and then in chapter 6 i just wipe the floor with aran and his gang ( thanks to the EEs beamdog made it so you can kill all the shadow thieves in chapter 6 with no penalties and then just grab those awesome boots of speed )
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @sarevok57 You don't actually have to kill renal to get permanent haste on all your party members. The grandmasters armor in ToB comes with a haste effect as well.

    @PaulaMigrate I actually ran through alternatives for the first time yesterday. Its not bad, but it feels quick and dirty compared to the vanilla options. Being (oddly enough for a "good" option) a straight slaughterfest as opposed to the actual quest chains of the vanilla options.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,002
    ThacoBell said:

    @sarevok57 You don't actually have to kill renal to get permanent haste on all your party members. The grandmasters armor in ToB comes with a haste effect as well.

    i dont like using the grandmaster's armor, for thieves i will use the white dragon scale or the upgraded bladesinger armor, even valygar can use the white dragon scale

    at least now a days, i dont have to use the silver sword "exploit" to kill renal now

  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    Quest Pack lets you wipe out the thieves too. There are many more pairs of Boots of Speed if you install a few mods.
  • MakeAthkatlaGrtAgainMakeAthkatlaGrtAgain Member Posts: 132
    ThacoBell said:

    Bohdi's Mass slaughter and delivery of victims to Irenicus for torture is worse than the shadow thieves torturing like three ex-thieves?

    I thought Irenicus was mostly experimenting on the prisoners at Spellhold that the Coweled Wizards already were experimenting on and eventually killing. Though now I remember a few shadow thieves in the mix.
    PaulaMigrate said:

    To solve this dilemma, there is (what else!) a mod, and a pretty good one.
    *Alternatives* http://www.gibberlings3.net/alternatives/

    The description says "or he may opt to skip the whole decision entirely and set sail for Maztica."

    Maztica is a long ways away and Brynnlaw is a nearby island.








  • MakeAthkatlaGrtAgainMakeAthkatlaGrtAgain Member Posts: 132
    sarevok57 said:

    the only problem doing it this way is that you wont be able to kill renal bloodscalp, which wears one of the only 6 pairs of boots of speed in the entire game ( SoA and ToB both ) so that is why i always side with the shadow thieves in chapter 3 and then in chapter 6 i just wipe the floor with aran and his gang ( thanks to the EEs beamdog made it so you can kill all the shadow thieves in chapter 6 with no penalties and then just grab those awesome boots of speed )

    I'm glad EE quit with the lame instant kill stuff. Considering your character kills demi-liches and Melissan and potentially waves of Coweled wizards if you want to fight them instead of getting a license, some much weaker characters would pose no threat.

    As for Renal, his quest comes up before you decide on a guild to join.



  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201
    edited December 2017
    MakeAthkatlaGrtAgain said:

    ThacoBell said:

    Bohdi's Mass slaughter and delivery of victims to Irenicus for torture is worse than the shadow thieves torturing like three ex-thieves?

    I thought Irenicus was mostly experimenting on the prisoners at Spellhold that the Coweled Wizards already were experimenting on and eventually killing. Though now I remember a few shadow thieves in the mix.
    PaulaMigrate said:

    To solve this dilemma, there is (what else!) a mod, and a pretty good one.
    *Alternatives* http://www.gibberlings3.net/alternatives/

    The description says "or he may opt to skip the whole decision entirely and set sail for Maztica."

    Maztica is a long ways away and Brynnlaw is a nearby island.








    The description is intentionally misleading -
    the guy who offers this *run away from it all* is lying because you can't escape your fate. Even with Alternatives you will end in Brynnlaw. Regardless which option you chose.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    edited December 2017
    The vampires dine on the clotted blood like steak.

    *EDIT* Or you know, magic. This IS the Forgotten Realms.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    chimaera said:

    Adding new blood wouldn't work; the old would still clot and likely clog the drain pipes. Here is the secret: all those mind controlled peasants? They are on tomato squishing duty.

    No, I mean they go through it fast enough that it doesn't have time to clot!
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    chimaera said:

    chimaera said:

    Adding new blood wouldn't work; the old would still clot and likely clog the drain pipes. Here is the secret: all those mind controlled peasants? They are on tomato squishing duty.

    Of course magic was used: to make the ketchup appear like blood to unsuspecing adventurers. This is also why Bodhi had to ask charname for money; she blew her yearly budget on the services of Jansen & Jansen Family Illusionists.

    Clearly they use turnips and not tomatoes #ThatsTheFamilySecret #SecretRecipies
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 910
    It's pretty impressive that Bodhi manages to make herself seem like the evil choice when the alternative is the Cosa Nostra on steroids and LSD. Though Renal's and Aran's charisma is surely also to blame.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201
    edited December 2017
    JoenSo said:

    It's pretty impressive that Bodhi manages to make herself seem like the evil choice when the alternative is the Cosa Nostra on steroids and LSD. Though Renal's and Aran's charisma is surely also to blame.

    The choice between the two ways is NOT a choice between good and evil this time - It's rather a choice of what you think is the lesser evil.
    You can't solve the issue without losing your innocence (remember that in ToB one of the challenges is when your lost innocent self appear before you...).
    And even when you have the Alternatives mod and decide to follow the *good* way, it will mean that a number of innocents will have to die even then.
    There's no black and white just a lot of shades/colours in between.
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 910
    Yeah, I never said that it was a black and white thing. The game makes it pretty clear that the Shadow thieves are supposed to be the lesser evil though, considering that no good npcs will abandon you when you join them.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    Well, Shadow Thieves are a known quantity in the universe. What's more, they're NOT vampires, and there are very few GOOD vampires that I can think of in FR. (The ONLY one I can think of offhand is Thimbledorf Pwent).

    What's more, the reason I feel that they're pushed as the more good option, is the "Enemy of my enemy is my friend" syndrome.

    We SEE the Shadow Thieves fighting against Irenicus, in fact it's how we break out.

    I'm just trying to think, with that information, why a Paladin (my own main character) would side with Bodhi over the shadow thieves.
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    She's Bodhilicious
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,742
    scriver said:

    chimaera said:

    Adding new blood wouldn't work; the old would still clot and likely clog the drain pipes. Here is the secret: all those mind controlled peasants? They are on tomato squishing duty.

    No, I mean they go through it fast enough that it doesn't have time to clot!
    Might the vampires be adding anti-coagulants? That's the way blood is prevented from clotting in blood banks in real life. And making such things won't be a big problem.
  • MakeAthkatlaGrtAgainMakeAthkatlaGrtAgain Member Posts: 132
    edited January 2018
    Dragonspear said:

    Well, Shadow Thieves are a known quantity in the universe. What's more, they're NOT vampires, and there are very few GOOD vampires that I can think of in FR. (The ONLY one I can think of offhand is Thimbledorf Pwent).

    So there's a lack of the Toreador style vampires: http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Toreador_(VTM)
    You know Edward Cullen, Angel from Buffy, the nicer vampire in Interview with The Vampire.
    Well it does give the world style not to have that cliche.
    Rik_Kirtaniya said:

    Might the vampires be adding anti-coagulants? That's the way blood is prevented from clotting in blood banks in real life. And making such things won't be a big problem.

    The blood would rot. Insects and microbes (in addition to bacteria making it rot) would try to consume the blood.

    I don't know for sure, but organic things tend to do this.

    The thing is, we never see human victims led into Bodhi's lair even when people go hunting. It's just this pool of blood that magically doesn't rot, stink, or have insects swarming it.




  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    MakeAthkatlaGrtAgain said:

    Dragonspear said:

    Well, Shadow Thieves are a known quantity in the universe. What's more, they're NOT vampires, and there are very few GOOD vampires that I can think of in FR. (The ONLY one I can think of offhand is Thimbledorf Pwent).

    So there's a lack of the Toreador style vampires: http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Toreador_(VTM)
    You know Edward Cullen, Angel from Buffy, the nicer vampire in Interview with The Vampire.
    Well it does give the world style not to have that cliche.
    Rik_Kirtaniya said:

    Might the vampires be adding anti-coagulants? That's the way blood is prevented from clotting in blood banks in real life. And making such things won't be a big problem.

    The blood would rot. Insects and microbes (in addition to bacteria making it rot) would try to consume the blood.

    I don't know for sure, but organic things tend to do this.

    The thing is, we never see human victims led into Bodhi's lair even when people go hunting. It's just this pool of blood that magically doesn't rot, stink, or have insects swarming it.




    Maybe they add sodium benzoate or nitrites. ;)

    Not sure about vampire physiology but mixing the blood with alcohol or some other poison would probably work. I think they're supposed to be immune to poisons and a lot of poisons kill anything biological...
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @MakeAthkatlaGrtAgain We DO see vampires in the streets charming people and leading them away however.
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