Page 48 in the survival guide: Mentions starting spell selection for mages and sorcerers, but not bards. Don't the get a starting spell or spells, too?
Melee & magic, page 30: Stat requirements as they pertain to dual classing are not mentioned.
Melee & Magic, page 33: Intelligence says it's a prime requisite for wizards, but it is for bards and sorcerers, too.
A lesser issue is that it says Charisma is important for druids, bards and paladins, but it does bugger all for any of them. It might be a prime requisite and therefore relevant to dual classing, at least for the druid, but it is not "important" as a stat.
I believe Bards don't get spells until level 2. I don't think they can pick from any at character creation, but I could be mistaken. I will check when I have time.
You have a point. Even if it doesn't specify all of the requirements it should at least state that there are minimum ability requirements in order to successfully dual class a character.
Of the two you listed intelligence is really only relevant for bards, and only because of spell learning failure. Since you can't dual class into a bard including it in the manual isn't all that important (at least in terms of the purpose of mentioning prime requisites, which since you roll for stats after choosing a class are only really relevant for dual classes).
Your last statement is kind of subjective (though admitedly my own comment on intelligence with bards is subjective to so who am I to judge ). Importance is relative to the character you are playing (more important to know for dual classes than single since you find out about bards minimums in the character creation screen) . I'm pretty certain when dualing into a druid from a fighter you need to have a charisma minimum. But I will make a note to test tonight for both this and for what you've suggested about bards.
Page 48 in the survival guide: Mentions starting spell selection for mages and sorcerers, but not bards. Don't the get a starting spell or spells, too?
Bards get their first spell at level 2, right? They don't have the option to choose a spell during character creation (level 1 char).
For Druids charisma is important (and I would argue deserving of a prime requisite mention under both wisdom and charisma scores) because it and wisdom both have to be at 17 in order for you to dual class from a fighter to a druid.
Why are dwarves getting stiffed even more than usual? Is someone with BGEE access able to check ingame again? If this is the case it should really be corrected. It seems a little off to incur 3 stat penalties just to be a dwarf.
Why are dwarves getting stiffed even more than usual? Is someone with BGEE access able to check ingame again? If this is the case it should really be corrected. It seems a little off to incur 3 stat penalties just to be a dwarf.
I guess just because thats how it was in the first and second games. In both games 16 was the maximum at character creation. Presumably they did it to balance out the health gains you get from being a dwarf right off the bat (which I suppose are only applicable if you are some kind of fighter). Plus you were the only race that could get health regenerate with one playthrough (which mattered more back then). Otherwise I just checked the 2.0 rules and you are right under them it should be 17.
I guess we will have to wait til tomorrow to find out if this new manual is correct, but I suspect they changed nothing and the manual was just never updated.
I've never had a dwarf with more than about 10 Cha but I don't think it is right they should incur an extra malus to their Cha score, after all they already receive a -1.
As you say, it can be checked tomorrow, if it is incorrect then a feature request can be made to rectify this.
Why are dwarves getting stiffed even more than usual? Is someone with BGEE access able to check ingame again? If this is the case it should really be corrected. It seems a little off to incur 3 stat penalties just to be a dwarf.
Well if it is -2 Cha, it's not new, as BG1/BG2 is like this. BTW in the above chart it shows Dwarves having a maximum of 18 Con, but in BG1/BG2 a Dwarf can have 19 Con, so they're not getting "stiffed" in this regard!
@Oxford_Guy Those scores reflect changes prior to racial adjustments.
You know what, I can see why it is implemented like this, it's just never occurred to me. Those stats as I have said are before racial modifiers. So a dwarf can have a max of 17 Cha before his dwarven -1 Cha is subtracted.
That's stupid. No other races are penalised like this.
Anyhow, it conforms to rules I guess so I'l be quiet now.
In case the horrible plight of halflings and their 17 wisdom is brought up (woops ) I figured I'd try to post the full 2nd edition race table and then afterwards list off the adjustments for race. So it may take me some attempts to get the table so it doesn't look wonky.
I'm confused about these min/max and stat tables. Are you guys talking about errors in the game or just casually talking PnP?
Basically @decado was thinking that dwarves were getting hit with a charisma penalty that was both unreasonable and against the rules, then later decado corrected him/her self and then I was like "well it would be a good thing to put down for future reference in case it comes up with other races (halflings and their wisdom) so I'll just put it down."
Ohh and because it involved a change made to the manual being incorrect.
and thus began the tale of why there are two more tables on this thread now...
OK I had listed Ghoul Touch and Chill Touch as Range: Touch, that's wrong, I'm sorry I removed it, please update the main list. I thought all spells that required a melee attack roll was considered a touch spell, that is not true.
Shocking Grasp is Touch as the caster has to make an attack with their bare hands.
Chill Touch and Vampiric Touch are Range:0 you are using your weapon to make the attack.
Found a few typos here and there in Mastering Melee and Magic.
(26) Combat effects and recovery: "...when opponents attacks them..." the verb should not have the ending -s. (32) Halfling Racial Traits: Fullstops are missing at the end of every bullet sentence. (36) Stalker Advantages: 20 and % are one space apart. (49) Wild Mage: "...explodes in a wild charge. a wild charge produces..." That "a" after the fullstop should be capitalized. (59) Lore: The sentence in the parentheses does not end in any punctuation mark. Also, in the lore example, it says that 15 Intelligence offers +5 Lore, while the tables say that 15 Intelligence offers +3 Lore. (138) The table lists 10 Intelligence as giving 0 Lore, but lists 10 Wisdom as giving -10 Lore. One of them is obviously wrong.
Here's some revised text for the portraits section:
To import a custom portrait, create a directory called "portraits" in the directory where your local game files are stored (under Documents\Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition), and add any custom portraits to that directory.
The dimensions and naming format required for player portraits are: - XXXXXXXS.bmp (54x84, 200 dpi) - XXXXXXXM.bmp (169x266, 200 dpi) - XXXXXXXL.bmp (210x330, 200 dpi)
The manuals do not mention the to-hit penalties of the different damage types versus the different types of armor. Are they not implemented, or is this an error?
It's not an error; it's an omission. It wasn't in the original manuals either, as far as I can recall (unless it was in a table that was removed). But duly noted.
Comments
You have a point. Even if it doesn't specify all of the requirements it should at least state that there are minimum ability requirements in order to successfully dual class a character.
Of the two you listed intelligence is really only relevant for bards, and only because of spell learning failure. Since you can't dual class into a bard including it in the manual isn't all that important (at least in terms of the purpose of mentioning prime requisites, which since you roll for stats after choosing a class are only really relevant for dual classes).
Your last statement is kind of subjective (though admitedly my own comment on intelligence with bards is subjective to so who am I to judge
Bards can't chose spells at character creation.
For Druids charisma is important (and I would argue deserving of a prime requisite mention under both wisdom and charisma scores) because it and wisdom both have to be at 17 in order for you to dual class from a fighter to a druid.
In PnP the chart which defines the minimum and maximum attributes shows this.
Ability Dwarf
Strength 8/18
Dexterity 3/17
Constitution 11/18
Intelligence 3/18
Wisdom 3/18
Charisma 3/17
Why are dwarves getting stiffed even more than usual? Is someone with BGEE access able to check ingame again? If this is the case it should really be corrected. It seems a little off to incur 3 stat penalties just to be a dwarf.
I guess we will have to wait til tomorrow to find out if this new manual is correct, but I suspect they changed nothing and the manual was just never updated.
As you say, it can be checked tomorrow, if it is incorrect then a feature request can be made to rectify this.
You know what, I can see why it is implemented like this, it's just never occurred to me. Those stats as I have said are before racial modifiers. So a dwarf can have a max of 17 Cha before his dwarven -1 Cha is subtracted.
That's stupid. No other races are penalised like this.
Anyhow, it conforms to rules I guess so I'l be quiet now.
<.<
Ohh and because it involved a change made to the manual being incorrect.
and thus began the tale of why there are two more tables on this thread now...
Shocking Grasp is Touch as the caster has to make an attack with their bare hands.
Chill Touch and Vampiric Touch are Range:0 you are using your weapon to make the attack.
(26) Combat effects and recovery: "...when opponents attacks them..." the verb should not have the ending -s.
(32) Halfling Racial Traits: Fullstops are missing at the end of every bullet sentence.
(36) Stalker Advantages: 20 and % are one space apart.
(49) Wild Mage: "...explodes in a wild charge. a wild charge produces..." That "a" after the fullstop should be capitalized.
(59) Lore: The sentence in the parentheses does not end in any punctuation mark. Also, in the lore example, it says that 15 Intelligence offers +5 Lore, while the tables say that 15 Intelligence offers +3 Lore.
(138) The table lists 10 Intelligence as giving 0 Lore, but lists 10 Wisdom as giving -10 Lore. One of them is obviously wrong.