A question about Kickstarter from Trent Oster

JuliusBorisov

https://twitter.com/TrentOster/status/952260781407485952

Raduziel

Depends what is being kickstarted.

Reviving Hitler with super powers? No.

A Baldur's Gate prequel? Yes.

DrakeICN

Pillars of Eternity was kickstarted, was it not? There are many success stories. I think the advantage with kickstarters is that you build a fan base before the game is even started - who would kickstart something and then not buy it? - and that you get independence from investors which gives you important control over story and game mechanics.

But I do not have statistics on how many failed kickstarts actually go on to make it - and if your kickstart fails, so you need to turn to an investor, you then have to explain to the investor "I could not convince potential customers to back this shit, but maybe you want to? Seeing how or own customer base rejected us and all!".

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scriver

I was just thinking earlier how if I was at Beamdog the last thing I would want is a hundred self-privileged assholes making "I paid for this game why are you putting your cuck SJW politics in my game" a thing.

But I have also been pretty burnt out on kickstarters and the like.

InKal

don't mistake game kickstarter for game engine kickstarter.

"do we know unity?" the question is. if the answer is "yes" just kickstart, what are you waiting for? don't spend all the money for booze and hookers and there will be nothing to worry about.

kanisatha

Shandaxx said:

Keep in mind that you also need a certain, that is a GOOD, reputation as a game developer to run a successful kickstarter campaign. People need to have reason to trust you.

I think on this forum we live pretty much in a "pro-Beamdog bubble". Take a look outside of this forum, see what people think of Beamdog then. Only sometimes will you find someone who dares showing their not-so-good opinion about Beamdog on this forum. But outside of this forum, to my perception, I have rarely seen or heard anything good about Beamdog.

What do people outside of this forum associate the name "Beamdog" with? Two main points come to my mind that I have come across again and again:
1.) Buggy game releases
2.) LBGT agenda forced down the throat

I don't agree with those opinions. And I am very well aware that Beamdog has released very stable games with far less bugs since then. So those two points are NOT my opinions. But that's what a discussion about Beamdog usually comes down to OUTSIDE of this forum.

Yes, my take on KS is also that your reputation matters a great deal (and for the record I have backed the crowdfunding campaigns of both PoE's, TToN, BT4, and Owlcat's Pathfinder game). But what I see being said about Beamdog out there is NOT either of these things, but rather that Beamdog does not do anything original and instead are "stealing" other people's work and making money off of it. I find this viewpoint utterly outrageous and infuriating, and have waged many a battle on various forums defending Beamdog, but at the same time, it is getting more and more difficult to defend Beamdog's reputation if they only keep pushing out EEs.

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Fardragon

I think Kickstarter had too many snake-oil salesmen, and now the concept is pretty much dying.

DrakeICN

scriver said:

I was just thinking earlier how if I was at Beamdog the last thing I would want is a hundred self-privileged assholes making "I paid for this game why are you putting your cuck SJW politics in my game" a thing.

But I have also been pretty burnt out on kickstarters and the like.

If I was Beamdog, I would be thinking that as long as I get their money, they can be butthurt all day long. Those people are SOOOOOOOO oversensitive they make the very SJWs they hate look good in comparison.

deltago

It depends on what the Kickstarter is.

If it's something small, such as a Premium module for expansion for BG 2, I think even if those failed, beamdog can shrug and say "lets focus on something else instead then."

If its a bigger project like a stand alone game, then you are banking the reputation you have accumulated. If that isn't enough to get funding, then it could be a death kneel to the company.

deltago

deltago said:

It depends on what the Kickstarter is.

If it's something small, such as a Premium module for expansion for BG 2, I think even if those failed, beamdog can shrug and say "lets focus on something else instead then."

Let me expand this thought with an example.

A Witch's Wake continuation is being asked for by the community. It is one of the Top voted for items on the Trello board. If Beamdog has trepidation of creating a sequel, they can start a kickstarter for it that guarantees break even sales for the company it eliminates this uncertainty.

If it fails, then the idea of having a continuation to the story dies with it, and Beamdog can point to the Kickstarter as evidence that not enough people are interested in it.

A project like this can also be easily tiered up with stretch goals if the funding does get secured. Add voice acting reach this stretch goal. Add new prestige classes that will be available to everyone who owns NWN:EE if this goal is reached. Add a third (fourth/fifth) chapter with voice acting reach these goals. Have it released as its own standalone game reach this stretch goal.

A project like this, also costs less than creating a new game from scratch so goals will be more attainable and a companies entire reputation won't be riding on it.

DrakeICN

Let me just for the record add I would gladly donate for an Arcanum EE, especially if you fill in the potholes, throw out the garbage SPECIAL system and replace with a Shadowrun inspired system, finish the many loose ends, add more quests, and add more middle game content. I find in general, that the world is kind of sparsely populated. It would benefit from a FFX-2 view on content (well, at least more towards tbat direction). Also, of course, there needs to be lots and lots more blueprints and item customization. Ok, maybe not lots and lots, just lots. The witcher had so many items in the end I stopped caring.

Unfortunately, I dont have a lot of money, but I'd donate what I could

JuliusBorisov

deltago said:

A Witch's Wake continuation is being asked for by the community. It is one of the Top voted for items on the Trello board.

https://twitter.com/TrentOster/status/952940424498372608

deltago

JuliusBorisov said:

deltago said:

A Witch's Wake continuation is being asked for by the community. It is one of the Top voted for items on the Trello board.

https://twitter.com/TrentOster/status/952940424498372608

Yes I am aware. i am just illustrating how kickstarter can be a tool and not just a make or break endevour.

The one downside to it is that involves gifts to pledgers that can inceease the cost of a project overall. If the company is certain they can at least break even on an project through traditional means, then a kickstarter would be a waste of energy.

Its more for high risk/low rewards projects than niche or devoted fans may want.

Ardanis

deltago said:

The one downside to it is that involves gifts to pledgers that can inceease the cost of a project overall. If the company is certain they can at least break even on an project through traditional means, then a kickstarter would be a waste of energy.

You forget marketing. Kickstarter is basically a marketing campaign that covers its own costs. I have in fact heard opinions that one should *not* try to kickstart their project at all if they can't secure elsewhere the funding to complete the basic version.

deltago

Ardanis said:

deltago said:

The one downside to it is that involves gifts to pledgers that can inceease the cost of a project overall. If the company is certain they can at least break even on an project through traditional means, then a kickstarter would be a waste of energy.

You forget marketing. Kickstarter is basically a marketing campaign that covers its own costs. I have in fact heard opinions that one should *not* try to kickstart their project at all if they can't secure elsewhere the funding to complete the basic version.

Disagree because you still have to communicate and market the campaign and do it in a shorter period of time than an actual game release.

Not to mention, that marketing games have been pretty much whittled down to giving popular YouTubers your game in advance and say "Fan Boy over us."

DrakeICN

System shock is being remade, using kick starters, or preorders or whatever it was.

They released a functioning demo together with their asking for money. I think that could be an excellent strategy, to show you mean busisness. Well, if the demo is well done, of course, otherwise you just scare people away. I remember, when I was little, EVERY game (almost) had demos... then they just stopped with demos. I think they started to sleep with gamers magasines instead, to get good ratings, and this was a more effective strategy or whatever. But people dont trust the gamers mags like they used to.... I hope, at least, gamers mag is kind of like mainstream news media, unapologetic asslickers for the establishment (or big devs, whatever), so I actually think demos could and should do a comeback!