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Aerie lost two body parts. She became a cleric. Yet still was never able to regrow her wings.

MakeAthkatlaGrtAgainMakeAthkatlaGrtAgain Member Posts: 132
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Regenerate

> If the parts were not available or too damaged, the live body would regrow the missing members, but it took longer.[2][3][4][7] The conjuration version of this spell took less than half an hour to regenerate missing parts,[2] the necromantic version could take up to an an hour longer than that.[3][4][7] Bones and missing or damaged organs would also grow back.[2][3][4][7]


In theory if she simply wore a Ring of Regeneration for a month, her wings would grow back.

It always seemed a logical flaw. And plus with the main character being a god potentially, he could do it too.




Post edited by MakeAthkatlaGrtAgain on
ZaghoulgorgonzolaSkatantbone1ThacoBellProont
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Comments

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,786
    there can be quite a few plot holes like this,

    another example being the fact that you find khalid dead in irenicus' dungeon, and even if you are a high enough level cleric there is still no option to bring him back to life, because somehow he is "too dead" to do so

    maybe this was the original dev's ideas on to show what your romance option lost in the past ( since both cases are with romanceable characters)

    although realistically if you were a cleric, this would really be not an issue

    ( with the more ironic part being that both are healers with said spells that could have fixed this, but they go; nah brah, nah, i need romance excuse) or at least that is what it seems it looks like

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,059
    I must admit I always had the same thing in mind with Aerie concerning her wings. I suppose though that a character that could fly (and that was always a good PnP spell) would pass over location triggers and could potentially escape many encounters as well. Still, though, would have made a nice quest for her. Maybe needing to hunt for some special ingredient to regenerate, or even saying that after the regeneration her muscles had atrophied to much to fly again. Even then she would look nice with them.
    I don't think it is mentioned but the baby born from her romance is not given any description at all IIRC. I wonder if a half elf of her race would have at least some sort of vestigial wings at all?

  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201
    edited February 7
    In EET she gets an ability to fly again.
    Irenicus provides it for her after his redemption at ToB and after the two elves became a couple. You can visit her in the aerial plane in Irenicus home in Athkatla. You can also later witness their marriage in Faenya Dale when you go there for a Saemon quest.

    It's one of these chances for modders to fill unfinished business.

  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201
    O_Bruce said:

    Her wounds were burned out with fire after her wings were cut off. She shouldn't be able to regrow them, just like trolls aren't able to regenerate wounds made by fire and acid.

    Or at least this is how it looks to me.

    Agree, this is why the *gets an ability to fly again* variation I mention above makes more sense than regrowing wings. BTW, in the same mod there is an earlier episode about what can be healed and what can not, and Aerie's wings are an example of where the limits are.

  • KuselKusel Member Posts: 50

    In EET she gets an ability to fly again.

    Irenicus provides it for her after his redemption at ToB and after the two elves became a couple. You can visit her in the aerial plane in Irenicus home in Athkatla. You can also later witness their marriage in Faenya Dale when you go there for a Saemon quest.

    It's one of these chances for modders to fill unfinished business.
    Don't forget
    The couple's son is named Quayle.
    They inherited a butler Lassal from Bodhi.

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 467
    O_Bruce said:

    Her wounds were burned out with fire after her wings were cut off. She shouldn't be able to regrow them, just like trolls aren't able to regenerate wounds made by fire and acid.

    Or at least this is how it looks to me.

    While true, I'd think there would be a big difference between a natural, if severe, regeneration ability and magical regeneration.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,516

    after ... became a couple.

    Aw, gross.

    There's actually an animation for wings in the EE game... but there is no real way to represent flight in the engine. Better to represent them as unable to regenerate.

  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201

    after ... became a couple.

    Aw, gross.

    There's actually an animation for wings in the EE game... but there is no real way to represent flight in the engine. Better to represent them as unable to regenerate.
    Ha, you may consider this marriage as a very special type of punishment.
    In the episode I mentioned, she has not her wings back but the mage found another option to make her fly.

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,124
    maybe someday someone will make a mod based on that cut aerie quest.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,516
    It's a 2-dimensional game. There's no mechanic to represent flying.

    This is Oblivion, not Morrowind. No treehouses with missing elevators.

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162

    after ... became a couple.

    Aw, gross.

    There's actually an animation for wings in the EE game... but there is no real way to represent flight in the engine. Better to represent them as unable to regenerate.
    How about the Harpies in Trials of the Luremaster? Not perfect, but still 'flying'

  • MakeAthkatlaGrtAgainMakeAthkatlaGrtAgain Member Posts: 132
    For the issue of Aerie having a child with a non-flying species.

    Now birds have hollow bones and even flightless birds keep this. For instance, ostriches are only 20 pounds. This keeps the birds really, really light. Flying birds are extremely light.

    A comparison is something I learned from the old show Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chonicles. The non-shapeshifting terminators are metal and weight a lot and so they can't swim. They can't down, but will sink.

    Avariel probably have hollow bones too, and this would justify Aerie's very low constitution.

    So if Aerie and a non-flying humanoid have kids, not only will the wings be weaker (or possibly non-working) but the bones will be denser and will have even more trouble flying.


  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,059
    edited February 10
    Huh, that might be the case. I know it's mentioned they are more delicate than other elves, but what is delicate? They seem to have a neg on con. but it could just as easily be strength as well I suppose. Regardless of that, birds of prey are pretty darn powerful and fierce though, well, the great horned owls and peregrine falcons around here are anyway. Always seems a bit weird when flying familiars can't cross water, pits, etc. that walking characters can't, plus the fly spell got a lot of use in PnP, but guess it's an engine related thing, so I get it. Would be nice though.
    On a side note, I think it's pretty cool how some hawks take out small drones, hehheh.




    On regeneration, I remember it being a 7th lvl cleric spell in 1st ed. that had no limitations on lost limbs, organs, or even heads of multi headed creatures.

  • MakeAthkatlaGrtAgainMakeAthkatlaGrtAgain Member Posts: 132
    @Zaghoul

    Aerie has low strength too, but she's half mage so it would make sense.

    For drones, there's videos you can find of people using drones to safely destroy wasp nests. Professionals are using them more and more too.



  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 695

    In EET

    Credit where credit is due. The content is not in EET but in the Sandrah Saga I assume (which only works on EET). I'd rather you name the mod you are referring to, because I don't think k4thos wants to have reports about contents people are expecting in their EET install.

  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,201
    edited February 13
    jastey said:

    In EET

    Credit where credit is due. The content is not in EET but in the Sandrah Saga I assume (which only works on EET). I'd rather you name the mod you are referring to, because I don't think k4thos wants to have reports about contents people are expecting in their EET install.

    Yeees, the only mod that adds anything to the game in EET after ToB end is Sandrah, so that's clear. I'm talking of stuff that happens when the official game has ended and you find yourself in a new plot after you gave Solar your decision.

  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,167
    The distinction Jastey requests is important, though!

    From what I know, EETs primary focus is to combine BGEE+SOD+BG2EE+TOB into a single game, where you're capable of moving forth and back between the different campaign maps. I expect only minimal changes to the actual gameplay to make this possible.

    Since you posted "EET changes this", it struck me as worrysome. I didn't expect that to be something that EET at its core should handle. If it does that, what else does it meddle with? I'm therefor glad that Jastey corrected you, and clarified that it is in fact not EET but an entirely different mod.

    So I second Jastey's request to specify the correct mod, not only because credit where credit is due, but also to prevent any misconceptions people may have about certain mods.

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,124
    i really wish the answer to everytime someone asks about something story related stops becoming " in eet blah blah blah."

    I get it @PaulaMigrate you enjoy eet and i'm assumeing have worked on it but the shilling man.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 419
    edited February 24
    sarevok57 said:



    another example being the fact that you find khalid dead in irenicus' dungeon, and even if you are a high enough level cleric there is still no option to bring him back to life, because somehow he is "too dead" to do so

    The body was too badly damaged. I don't see what's too weird about that.

    It's even reflected in the gameplay. If a killing blow takes you more than 10 hitpoints below 0 then the corpse is ruined and you can't be revived, no matter what clerical magics you have at your disposal.

    True revival anyway. Jaheira acknowledges that undeath is an option, but he wouldn't have wanted that.

  • Yulaw9460Yulaw9460 Member Posts: 607
    Well, from what I've been able to read about the spell Resurrection, you only have to have a tiny fragment of the body, and the resurrection must occur within 10 years of death.

    No other conditions really apply, defilement or otherwise. You should in theory be able to resurrect someone with nothing more than a lobbed off finger joint and the material components. The condition of the body is otherwise irrelevant, unless it's been completely destroyed. The rules say, that a DM may impose penalties to the revival, if only bits remain of the corpse. Which, in the case of Khalid's body, doesn't apply. His entire body is clearly still there.

    Besides, the chunking of bodies and utter destruction of party members would technically be against those rules. Just because a corpse explodes massively into chunks, the chunks don't magically evaporate. They're still there. On the wall. And the ceiling. And in the corner. And on the table. Unless you're playing BG2. Then they're not. Then they turn to mist.

    Irenicus could probably do some divine intervention-mojo or defilement, as per Jaheira's claim, to interfere with any resurrection, but from what I've been able to deduce, he has zero support from any divine member of any pantheon. Definitely not the Elven, at least. And he's trying to claim a spot in the Elven Pantheon throughout the game, so I'll go out on a limb and claim, that his interest in any other divine powers equals exactly squat. And vice versa. Why would any god purposefully help a mortal in any way, if he or she is on a path to ascension? And possibly allow him to rein in some of the followers of that deity? Gorion's Ward is even directly opposed by potential rival deities on occasion in ToB, as his/her ascension approaches.

    And about Aerie: As specified above, the different Regeneration spells and items in the category of regrowing limbs, organs etc. WILL regrow ANY kind of missing bodypart (even decapitated heads of multi-headed creatures), if they're not available for reattachment. It'll just take a bit longer without the severed limb present.

    So, yeah. Stick her with a Ring of Regeneration, and her wings WILL grow back. Unless you're playing BG2. Then they won't.

    I suppose we can conclude that BG2 decided to skimp on some of the official rules and spells for the sake of the story. But that wouldn't really be the first time. Of course, the dead in question (Khalid) must also be willing to return to life. If not, the spell fizzles and he stays dead. End of story. Being fed up with Jaheira is an entirely plausible option.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 419
    Honestly it doesn't seem strange to me that they would've decided that for the purpose of this campaign they're not gonna bring in all that stuff about resurrecting a nine years dead chunk of meat.

    Hard for there to really be stakes under that rule set. Even in a situation like the start of the game where Gorion's dead, and he's a powerful man so it's gonna be expensive to raise him. Suddenly all you've gotta do is keep one of his fingers in your bag and you've got ten years to raise the funds.

  • Yulaw9460Yulaw9460 Member Posts: 607
    Well, the rules are the rules. 2E. That's just the way it is. Unless they change them, of course. Which they did.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 419
    I admittedly don't have much experience with tabletop gaming but I feel like there has to be some allowance to let the Dungeon Master do their own thing a little bit.

    It sounds like a lot of people's home games take what they want from the rules but then leave the rest. I don't see why this would be any different.

    The games are entirely internally consistent on the "badly damaged corpses can't be revived" front, and I think that takes precedence over any external sources on how things generally work in The Forgotten Realms.

  • Yulaw9460Yulaw9460 Member Posts: 607
    "External sources"? The games were based on the 2E ruleset, not the other way around.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 419
    Yes, the games are based on the 2E ruleset, but that the games are still their own thing and allowed to put their own spin on the system.

    The Harry Potter movies are based on the books. In the movies Durmstrang is a boys only school, where in the books it's not. You couldn't point to the book to try and claim that Durmstrang is not a boys only school in the movies, because the movies are quite clear and internally consistent on this subject. The movies are just different.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,045
    There are already plenty of instances of the BG series departing from 2e rules. At no point have they ever been an exact conversion.

  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,167
    Note that while what Borek said is entirely true, it is important that whatever changes you still make sense and still remain consistent. Once the rules start to change from one moment to another, or when the rules are one soppy mess that don't make any sense to the players, then you've gone too far.

    Note, that was just general advise, and in no way specified at a specific GM or Dev Team.

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