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Any "non melee" ways to deal with spell immune creatures in IWD?

I finished my first "playthrough" with a solo Dragon Disciple at insane difficulty. Against golems in OC, i tried everything. spells to lower his magick resistance, a lot of powerful spells, and even tried a "one time wish" to kill then(they took no damage). The solution was time stop + melee attack, then time stop again and melee attack(...), against the final boss, i have used a eqquipment to increase my character speed(since my defenses are dispelled) to let me take distance and used some spells, without Tenser's transformation, Time Stop and Black Blade of Disaster and meatshield summons to give some time, i probably will never be able to complete the game.

Spell resistance is IMHO a think that makes no sense at all. A "summoned piercing object" and a "non summoned piercing object" should work the same way. A electricity summoned and a natural electricity should work the same way too. In D&D 3.5, some spells allow SR and some won't allow SR. Like Arc of Lightning, in nwn2 OC i have used this spell against golems. In nwn1, i use the same tactic of IWD since a lot of spells that won't allow SR in PnP like Incendiary Cloud allow in game(by no reason).

Arc of lighting
http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Arc_of_Lightning

I don't know how Magic resistance works in D&D 2.0 and in IWD to be honest, but there are any way to use offensive spells, against Iron Golems and the final boss? There are any "non melee" way to deal with spell immune creatures in IWD? If in my second playthrough i play as a Druid, how can i defeat iron golems?

Comments

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,406
    well technically the game is supposed to be played with a party, not with only one character, so in theory it doesnt need to be possible to beat the game with one character

    hence the reason why you have a party, to help diversify the list of skills you have so no matter what situation is thrown at you, you are still able to over come the challenge

    now, when it comes to the golems, im assuming you mean the 2 iron golems in malavon's lair, for solo play there is a way better strategy for them:
    if you find the golem book in makreth's room ( i think that is how his name is spelled) and have high enough INT, you can make those golems on your team instead without needing to battle them, plus that route gives you more XP


    when it comes to the final battle, Belhefit is immune to all spells of level 7 and lower, so if you want to lower his magic resistance you will have to use pierce shield to do so, and even if you do, you can only use level 8 or 9 spells on him

    when it comes to fighting the golems, you can try out the elemental summoning spells, i know in BG2 they attack with "+4" weapons and golems/last boss require +3 weapons or higher to hit

    so with that being said, sometimes you can luck out on darts that are +3/+4, so if you find any of those, keep them around for iron golems and the last boss

    ThacoBelljoluvGusindaStummvonBordwehr
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 1,737
    Iron golems in IWD don't have any spell immunity, don't have any physical resistances, and aren't resistant to magic damage. So once you lower their magic resistance, any non-elemental spell damage (e.g., Magic Missile, Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, the piercing damage from Flame Arrow...) will work against them.

    Contrary to what @Sarevok57 says above, Belhifet is also immune to level 8 and 9 spells, so there's no point in using any offensive spells on him. Stick to summons and buffs. In your Druid playthrough, Creeping Doom makes effective meat shields. If you do Heart of Winter before finishing the main campaign, you can also pick up a ranged weapon that works against Belhifet and his golems.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,406
    ah, indeed he is immune to all spell levels from 1 through 9, and that is incredibly stupid in my opinion

    why not just make it so belhefit is immortal and as soon as you see him he kills you in one hit, deletes your save file and laughs at you, jeez

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 114
    sarevok57 said:

    well technically the game is supposed to be played with a party, not with only one character, so in theory it doesnt need to be possible to beat the game with one character

    hence the reason why you have a party, to help diversify the list of skills you have so no matter what situation is thrown at you, you are still able to over come the challenge

    now, when it comes to the golems, im assuming you mean the 2 iron golems in malavon's lair, for solo play there is a way better strategy for them:

    if you find the golem book in makreth's room ( i think that is how his name is spelled) and have high enough INT, you can make those golems on your team instead without needing to battle them, plus that route gives you more XP


    when it comes to the final battle, Belhefit is immune to all spells of level 7 and lower, so if you want to lower his magic resistance you will have to use pierce shield to do so, and even if you do, you can only use level 8 or 9 spells on him

    when it comes to fighting the golems, you can try out the elemental summoning spells, i know in BG2 they attack with "+4" weapons and golems/last boss require +3 weapons or higher to hit

    so with that being said, sometimes you can luck out on darts that are +3/+4, so if you find any of those, keep them around for iron golems and the last boss


    Thanks for the hints. About the game supposed to be played on party, i agree but if some enemy have infinite armor class (aka can only be hurt by spells), he will be broken too IMHO. Also, if someone wanna roleplay a "mage school association" in bg/iwd?

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 114
    Where i can find the spells that bypass MR?

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 1,815

    Also, if someone wanna roleplay a "mage school association" in bg/iwd?

    They would hire a Fighter. Or try to pursue any other solution as in any PnP adventure.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,406

    Where i can find the spells that bypass MR?

    as far as i know, in the IE, the only spells that actually bypass MR are buff spells and healing spells, if you want spells that lower MR they are: lower resistance, pierce magic and pierce shield

  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 672
    Flame Arrow in IWDEE bypasses any MR, for some reason.

    if infernal harpies are to be trusted

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 114

    Flame Arrow in IWDEE bypasses any MR, for some reason.

    if infernal harpies are to be trusted

    Yes, but will do no damage on fire immune creatures...

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 114
    Only a update. Combining Black Blade of Disaster + Tenser's tranformation, i can have 3 attacks at -10 THAC0 with 15-37 damage totalizing 45-111 damage per round(more than a lot of spells) and the enemy must make 3 save vs death or be insta killed / round. Also, i have 27% of chance of healing 20 hp and drains 4 levels assuming that all attacks hit. With improved Haste i probably can attack 4 times(only used tier 3 haste in print bellow) / round... I wonder how much attacks a high level figher/mage can do with BBD + Improved Haste + Tenser's transformation....

    My char

    sarevok57StummvonBordwehr
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,406
    if a fighter mage with improved haste/tenser's transformation ( given if that extra attack stacks with haste) was using BBoD ( although your fighter mage would need at least 6 million XP to get to a high enough level to be able to cast this spell ) he would have 7 attacks per round, which would be pretty solid

    one unfortunate thing about this though, i dont recall if BBoD is in IWD but in HoW instead, so you would have to import/use EE keeper to get it before HoW ( if you were a fighter/mage )

    SorcererV1ct0r
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 672
    edited February 13
    hey, on the plus side, you aren't trying to solo IWDEE with a thief.

    the way enemies from the entire map constantly follow, mob *and* face you even when you are fully invisible and undetected.

    currently in dragon eye level 2 with 30 trolls, 1 APR and no fire weapon due to randomness. it's such a mess that the game lags to hell because of AI pathing :)

    joluv
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 1,737
    I swear, the stealth mechanics of that game were designed by Tempus himself.

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 1,511

    hey, on the plus side, you aren't trying to solo IWDEE with a thief.

    the way enemies from the entire map constantly follow, mob *and* face you even when you are fully invisible and undetected.

    currently in dragon eye level 2 with 30 trolls, 1 APR and no fire weapon due to randomness. it's such a mess that the game lags to hell because of AI pathing :)

    Believe it or not, I've actually managed to solo most of Icewind Dale with an assassin on Insane difficulty. I got up to the beginning of Chapter 6, at which point I gave up because the Tarnished Sentries could see through stealth and were easily a match for my assassin.

    SirBatince
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 672
    ya I figured out a way. stick in a one-person spot, double katana + oil of speed + poison weapon, then throw fire oils

    life finds a way! but level 3 is gonna be shit

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 114

    hey, on the plus side, you aren't trying to solo IWDEE with a thief.

    the way enemies from the entire map constantly follow, mob *and* face you even when you are fully invisible and undetected.

    currently in dragon eye level 2 with 30 trolls, 1 APR and no fire weapon due to randomness. it's such a mess that the game lags to hell because of AI pathing :)

    Well, i already finished the game with a solo DD. But a Thief sounds very hard.

    Only a small gameplay

    hey, on the plus side, you aren't trying to solo IWDEE with a thief.

    the way enemies from the entire map constantly follow, mob *and* face you even when you are fully invisible and undetected.

    currently in dragon eye level 2 with 30 trolls, 1 APR and no fire weapon due to randomness. it's such a mess that the game lags to hell because of AI pathing :)

    Believe it or not, I've actually managed to solo most of Icewind Dale with an assassin on Insane difficulty. I got up to the beginning of Chapter 6, at which point I gave up because the Tarnished Sentries could see through stealth and were easily a match for my assassin.
    Pretty impressive considering how "invisible" and stealth are broken in IWD;
    sarevok57 said:

    if a fighter mage with improved haste/tenser's transformation ( given if that extra attack stacks with haste) was using BBoD ( although your fighter mage would need at least 6 million XP to get to a high enough level to be able to cast this spell ) he would have 7 attacks per round, which would be pretty solid

    one unfortunate thing about this though, i dont recall if BBoD is in IWD but in HoW instead, so you would have to import/use EE keeper to get it before HoW ( if you were a fighter/mage )

    In my first gameplay, i completed IWD with more than 10 million XP, solo - insane. With a medium(3/4 characters) to a big party and at normal difficulty, will be impossible to get this amount of XP.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,406
    when i play a party of 6 i usually hit around 1.37 or so million XP per character which equals a total of 8 million

    are you using the double XP for higher difficulty? or just grinding a bit? because even 10 million sounds kind of high for IWD

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 114
    sarevok57 said:

    when i play a party of 6 i usually hit around 1.37 or so million XP per character which equals a total of 8 million

    are you using the double XP for higher difficulty? or just grinding a bit? because even 10 million sounds kind of high for IWD

    Yes, 2x XP for insane difficulty. To be honest, without tier 5+ spells i don't know how solo Yxunomei at insane.

    sarevok57
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,406

    sarevok57 said:

    when i play a party of 6 i usually hit around 1.37 or so million XP per character which equals a total of 8 million

    are you using the double XP for higher difficulty? or just grinding a bit? because even 10 million sounds kind of high for IWD

    Yes, 2x XP for insane difficulty. To be honest, without tier 5+ spells i don't know how solo Yxunomei at insane.
    oil of speed, +2 arrows with the messenger of sseth bow would be one way

    SorcererV1ct0r
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 482
    A mage can "melee" fairly well with the mordekainen's sword spell in IWD, though the way it works it's more of a ranged attack. I've played a solo dragon disciple with the original level cap reinstalled (meaning no level 8 & 9 spells) and the "whack them from afar" swords were enough most of the time. Unfortunately I don't remember anymore what weapon he used in the final battle. He did use tenser's transformation and a lot of potions, mostly to counter the disease/poison effect B. applies on hit.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 114
    edited February 13
    chimaera said:

    A mage can "melee" fairly well with the mordekainen's sword spell in IWD, though the way it works it's more of a ranged attack. I've played a solo dragon disciple with the original level cap reinstalled (meaning no level 8 & 9 spells) and the "whack them from afar" swords were enough most of the time. Unfortunately I don't remember anymore what weapon he used in the final battle. He did use tenser's transformation and a lot of potions, mostly to counter the disease/poison effect B. applies on hit.

    OMG... Beat the final boss without high tier summons, time stop, Spell Trigger sounds insane. How did you manage to survive the first round after lose all defensive spells and have to deal with one very powerful boss demon, two demons and two iron golems? Without a spell trigger to quickly cast haste, stoneskin, etc? If you have unlimited summons(don't know if is truth that iwd non ee the PC can have unlimited summons), maybe bombard then with a lot of summons and attack with "summoned melee weapons"? Since no spell can damage the golems and the boss?

    Sounds like try defeat mephistopheles in nwn1 - hotu without epic/high tier spells...

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,406
    im not 100% sure, but if you use an invisibility potion you could recast your buffs, but one thing to note: haste/ improved haste count as an offensive spell in terms of breaking your invisibility, so make sure to cast that last

  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 482
    edited February 14



    OMG... Beat the final boss without high tier summons, time stop, Spell Trigger sounds insane. How did you manage to survive the first round after lose all defensive spells and have to deal with one very powerful boss demon, two demons and two iron golems? Without a spell trigger to quickly cast haste, stoneskin, etc? If you have unlimited summons(don't know if is truth that iwd non ee the PC can have unlimited summons), maybe bombard then with a lot of summons and attack with "summoned melee weapons"? Since no spell can damage the golems and the boss?

    Sounds like try defeat mephistopheles in nwn1 - hotu without epic/high tier spells...

    None of the enemies there have ranged attacks, so if you drink a haste potion and then run in circles, you can buff up again. Edit: it might have been a magical quarterstaff and not a summoned weapon that my disciple used; I really can't remember.
    The toughest battle in the game for me was - surprisingly - maiden Ilmadia.

    Btw, since you have asked about the druid, there is a solo druid IWD run on yt, except it was done on HoF difficulty.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 114
    edited February 14
    Fair enough but if you wonder how much effective a "melee sorcerer" can be(Black Blade of Disaster + Tenser's transformation + haste + etc), at max level with a specific ring(that lower your armor in exchange for 2 more attacks/round), is possible to reach 6 attacks/turn each one with 15-37 damage, so you will do 90-222 damage/round if all attacks hit, with -11 THAC0 that is not rare...

    My char


    This second playtrough with a melee caster is ridiculous easy...

    sarevok57
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 672
    edited February 14
    adding on the previous bit about stealth being broken in IDWEE, I want to report there seems to be 3 different types of artificial intelligence

    1. old type BG enemies that just follow at the last seen spot and stand still forever

    2. "wanderers" enemies that constantly move around with no purpose if there's no enemy, (they even like to move through solid walls and obstacles, comically enough)

    3. "homing" enemies that constantly move to your position forever regardless of sighting, come in huge squads, never give up, even go in area transitions, try to bodyblock you, and all this even when you are invisible

    Honestly I wouldn't have noticed this stuff without doing a solo thief run

    SorcererV1ct0rsarevok57Bubb
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 8,461
    sarevok57 said:

    ah, indeed he is immune to all spell levels from 1 through 9, and that is incredibly stupid in my opinion

    I keep toying with the idea of making this effect disruptable by Breach or some higher-level spell, so you can tear down this immunity from liches and rakshasa and then use spells on them... but I haven't gotten around to it...

    sarevok57
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