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Pathfinder : Kingmaker

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  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 510
    edited June 7
    Whiterose Abbey early access could be an issue.

    Edit: There are a few other spots that are only revealed as the story progresses. Pitax River Bend, Littletown maybe. I think the Menagerie appears through exploration, but I can’t remember exactly. Castle of Knives should probably be avoided until after Pitax is pacified.

    Cahir
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,412
    Don't worry about that, locations you are not meant to enter are protected in game. I think it's Pitax next from where you are in the game, feel free to try to enter, you won't be able to.

    Well, I never visited Flintlock Grasslands and from what I understand, I should visit it before Amarg's Tomb. I wonder how it works out when I visit it now.

  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 990
    edited June 7
    Cahir wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    I assume you have kingdom management set to the easiest difficulty setting? On that setting your kingdom should never get destroyed.

    Also, did you look for Pike's Stretch? That's where the storybook event happens to find Armag's Tomb. You can Google Pike's Stretch to get a visual of the location.

    No, I didn't set kingdom management to the easiest difficulty, I installed a mod instead, that allowed me to tweak it to my liking. It's not a chore now as it was on default setting, but it's not fully painless either (i.e it doesn't prevent kingdom to be wrecked by events such as barbarian horde raids). I'll try to find a setting in bag of tricks mod that would allow me to pass this quest through and then switch it back to current settings. I don't want to resort to cheating unless I absolutely have to.

    Yes, I visited the Pike's Stretch and as I wrote before I'm 100% sure I passed the tests with Amiri. So if this should reveal Amarg's Tomb location, it didn't. Maybe it would if I have this quest already active back then, don't know. As I've said before, either it's a very bad design or I stumbled upon a nasty bug.

    That is very strange. I get Armag's Tomb revealed exclusively through doing that storybook event.

    As for difficulty, I guess that's each person's personal preference. I personally would rather not use cheats like Bag of Tricks, so I just set kingdom management to 'Easy' in all my playthroughs, and I have yet to have my kingdom ever drop below 'Stable.' It's always on 'Serene,' and drops to 'Stable' only briefly when a quest force-drops you a level, which just comes back up again when the quest gets completed.

  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 590
    You are certainly meant to have done Flintrock Grasslands before Armag's Tomb. It's a crucial part of the plot and story, that might be where your problems started.

  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,412
    You are certainly meant to have done Flintrock Grasslands before Armag's Tomb. It's a crucial part of the plot and story, that might be where your problems started.

    The problem is that I couldn't get to reveal Flintlock Grasslands either. Let's see if I didn't screw the whole game by finishing Armag's Tomb before visiting Flintlock Grasslands.

  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 590
    Flintrock Grasslands does get closed off immediately after its quest. You can visit it only once (as I found to my cost first time - the place is teeming with loot and I couldn't carry even 10% of it; I left most of it behind and couldn't go back to get any more later :/ ). If you close off or fail that quest somehow, that might be problematic. Might be interesting for you to post a screenshot of your journal to see what the status of that quest is.

  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 590
    Octavia only loses one level of spellcasting, she only has 1 Rogue level (and it's perfect by the way for Arcane Trickster, which is a sickeningly powerful offensive prestige class). So she is one level of spellcasting behind a PC mage, which is not really a big deal. You have the same situation in a lot of games where NPCs are a level behind the PC. Octavia is fragile though, so there's nothing wrong with a PC mage as well (not uncommon to have 2 mages in a party anyway).

    Conjurer is ok, though Wizards are generally not as good as Sorcerers (the usual + flexibility and slightly faster progression vs - power); the best summoner class btw is Monster Tactician (Inquisitor archetype), a really fun class. Happy to hear it is working better for you this time and you are understanding the magic system more. If you're focusing on crowd control spells, I'm sure you will soon realise that spells which force a save every turn (such as Grease for instance as a low level example) are superior to spells that require a one-time save only (which at low levels are things like Cause Fear, Colour Spray etc).

    kanisatha
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 990
    I second what @Jaheiras_Witness says. Octavia is actually a really good arcane spellcaster, including with Arcane Trickster added. At higher levels she will blow away your enemies. And you can get really solid support arcane spellcasting from Linzi and/or Jubilost. That said, if you are having a good time playing your PC as a wizard, that's exactly what it's there for, just like all the other classes.

    I've discovered that a great approach to PC-building is to try out different builds in the "Beneath the Stolen Lands" DLC mega-dungeon. It is fantastic for build experimenting.

    Jaheiras_Witness
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,946
    If anyone's wondering, the difference between Octavia going Arcane Trickster with only one level of Rogue as opposed to three is taking the feat for an extra d6 sneak attack damage. It's called... Accomplished Sneak Attacks or something.

    Jaheiras_Witness
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 590
    Exactly, just 1 level of Rogue, take Accomplished Sneak Attacker at level 3 as your feat, and you can take Arcane Trickster at level 5 (Rogue 1 + Wizard 3 = Arcane Trickster 1). This is one of the fastest combinations of unlocking a prestige class (paying attention also to the skill ranks AT requires).

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 604
    You lose evasion and a rogue talent, but if you want your character to be a main caster 1 rogue level is enough.

  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,476
    For your main you could also pick the Vivisectionist Alchemist archetype for a one level dip instead of rogue to get that sneak attack dice. You then get that sweet mutagen. The level one spells might not amount to much and you do lose out on weapon finesse compared to rogue, but if you're in the back, that's not really a loss.

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,728
    edited June 11


    Kingmaker's console release will hit the stores on the 18th of August. Also will include an official turn-based mode for those who are into such things. Desktop players also will get it via an upcoming update.

    bleusteel
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,946
    I hope the official mode won't make the game randomly drop all sounds for no reason

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,601


    Kingmaker's console release will hit the stores on the 18th of August. Also will include an official turn-based mode for those who are into such things. Desktop players also will get it via an upcoming update.

    I suppose it's great for people who only have consoles, but I can't imagine the nightmare playing these type of games without a mouse and keyboard would be. I've tried Pillars of Eternity on my Switch and it's horrendously awful to play isometric, turn-based RPGs with a controller.

    DrHappyAngryBallpointManMirandel
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,728
    @jjstraka34 I suppose it should be interesting to see how that turns out. Given that controller support will be one of the new features that will be backported to the desktop versions as well.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,706
    An update on my playthrough. I reached the 7th level and about to enter the troll fortress. Knowing what was to come, I managed to win the Valerie duel on the first attempt (she was buffed in-advance and took every perk for a better to-hit chance she could) and save Bartholomew on the 3rd attempt (when 2 trolls out of 3 failed their saving throws against Grease in the 1st round). I still think those 2 encounters are bad, design-wise, but metaknowledge helps.

    I keep enjoying my choice of Conjurer as the main character and found out Stinking Cloud (which is now my Spell Specialization) works well with Jaethal (as an undead, she's immune to its effects).

    I'd say the hardest fight in the game so far was an ambush by 5 Giant Slugs when only Valerie survived.

    This time, I found Ekundayo (and I like him) but nearly missed on Jubilost - if I didn't know when I should visit that area I wouldn't have figured I should travel there again. The area was first visited by me before the troll problem appeared as it was the closest "new" area to the capital.

    mlneveseJaheiras_WitnessDinoDin
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 590
    You know Valerie winning the duel and saving Bart are not needed? Certainly not the kind of things to worry about or reload until successful.

    Random encounters and ambushes when resting are really dangerous :/

    DrHappyAngry
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,476
    You know Valerie winning the duel and saving Bart are not needed? Certainly not the kind of things to worry about or reload until successful.

    Random encounters and ambushes when resting are really dangerous :/

    Ya, the no reload run I did, Bart died and I managed to finish the game without a single reload. The only thing that you really get out of it is another advisor that only fits if you're evil. With Val's duel
    It has an extremely minor impact on an event in chapter 6 and you can still get the "good" result even if she lost the duel.
    Jaethal's undead ability is really fun and abusable. You can have her tank the swarms in the early game since she's not affected by poison. Also delay poison, communal makes those cloud spells really awesome and you can just drop them on your whole party without any negative effects. Cloudkill will outright kill a lot of annoying enemies and cripple the rest and is completely mitigated with delay poison on your party.

    BallpointMan
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 1,987
    edited June 13
    Since you are a conjurator, a combo spell which i love is animate dead + cloudkill and send your skely army to tank while your cloudkill deals CON damage. Just know that a enemy uses this deadly combo against you too in mid part of the game. And don't commit the mistake of fighting a enemy which you are not prepared. Those who beat the game knows what i an talking about.

    Every spell that you can use, enemies can use.

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 604
    You know Valerie winning the duel and saving Bart are not needed? Certainly not the kind of things to worry about or reload until successful.

    Random encounters and ambushes when resting are really dangerous :/

    Ya, the no reload run I did, Bart died and I managed to finish the game without a single reload. The only thing that you really get out of it is another advisor that only fits if you're evil. With Val's duel
    It has an extremely minor impact on an event in chapter 6 and you can still get the "good" result even if she lost the duel.
    Jaethal's undead ability is really fun and abusable. You can have her tank the swarms in the early game since she's not affected by poison. Also delay poison, communal makes those cloud spells really awesome and you can just drop them on your whole party without any negative effects. Cloudkill will outright kill a lot of annoying enemies and cripple the rest and is completely mitigated with delay poison on your party.

    You can even have a kingdom upgrade that makes you immune to poison while fighting in your territories. It´s very useful since you can add the lands where the Tenebrous depths are so it applies to the entire dungeon there.

  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,476
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    You know Valerie winning the duel and saving Bart are not needed? Certainly not the kind of things to worry about or reload until successful.

    Random encounters and ambushes when resting are really dangerous :/

    Ya, the no reload run I did, Bart died and I managed to finish the game without a single reload. The only thing that you really get out of it is another advisor that only fits if you're evil. With Val's duel
    It has an extremely minor impact on an event in chapter 6 and you can still get the "good" result even if she lost the duel.
    Jaethal's undead ability is really fun and abusable. You can have her tank the swarms in the early game since she's not affected by poison. Also delay poison, communal makes those cloud spells really awesome and you can just drop them on your whole party without any negative effects. Cloudkill will outright kill a lot of annoying enemies and cripple the rest and is completely mitigated with delay poison on your party.

    You can even have a kingdom upgrade that makes you immune to poison while fighting in your territories. It´s very useful since you can add the lands where the Tenebrous depths are so it applies to the entire dungeon there.

    Yup this is true. If possible I try to have Lake Silverstep annexed and the poison immunity project before heading to
    Lamashtu's Womb at the end of chapter 3. The immunity even carries over the First World portion of the dungeon. It really makes all those spiders a lot easier. Of course Delay Poison, Communal lasts for an hour, so it's not super necessary.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 1,987
    edited July 5
    Those who wanna know how kingmaker is in relation to the source TT game, a guy on RPG codex explained chapter by chapter, the differences between TT kingmaker and CRPG kingmaker

    OBVIOUS SPOILERS from TT game and CRPG adaptations.
    Xamenos wrote:
    I suppose running is a form of playing and I'm qualified to answer.

    Generally, it's fairly faithful to locations and general themes, and a MASSIVE improvement to story and characters. The tabletop path is essentially a series of unrelated unfortunate events, that only at the end of the game are revealed to be the work of a single mastermind. In more detail:

    The prologue is entirely new. The players spawn right outside Oleg's before the bandit attack with a letter explaining their mission in tabletop.
    Chapter 1 is broadly, but not entirely, the same. Nyrissa doesn't make an appearance. In fact, there's no way for the players to learn she even exists before Pitax. There's no Tartuccio. Tartuk is an unrelated gnome who hated kobolds but got reincarnated into one and is now destroying kobold tribes from within, by sparking a war with the Mites in this case. Kressle is not Svetlana's sister, but has stolen her wedding ring. No Technic League. Erastil's temple is just a random location with a hard fight against the treant-like bear and an unimportant backstory that the players have no way to know. There are some extra unimportant side locations and NPCs that didn't make it to the game (in all chapters), with the only one I'm missing personally being a juvenile fairie dragon inhabitant of the forest who loves pranking people. My party was split right in half in their love and hate of him. Some locations are also Owlcat's creations, the wererats being one of them. The players don't visit the Stag Lord's home, and have no way to learn his backstory. The Stag Lord's fort is almost the same, with the same NPC lieutenants, but it's quite a bit smaller in tabletop. The players also have the chance to RP their way in by pretending to be members of the gang.
    Kingdom mechanics were practically made from scratch by Owlcat. Big improvement over the tabletop rules.
    Chapter 2 is more faithful. There's no bald hilltop, ancient curse or specific timers. The triggers are all in the hands of the DM. Jubilost is there in the tabletop, but there's no Ekundayo or Delgado. The trolls are different only in that with no Tartuk, Hargulka acted alone (with Nyrissa's prodding) and there are no fire-resistant trolls.
    Chapter 3 is 90% new. There's no season of Bloom in the tabletop. Instead, Nyrissa influenced a pack of hunters into enraging an ancient Owlbear and driving it to attack the player capital while the players are away to the trolls. The players then track it down to its lair when they return. That's all.
    Chapter 4 has few differences. Biggest one is no barbarians or defaced sisters. Instead, the players meet the tribe of Nomen Centaurs who point them in the right direction. Vordakai is an even worse opponent, a 9th-level Lich who atrophied so much with his slumber that his phylactery doesn't even work anymore.
    Chapter 5 is more than half-new, and the only chapter with significant content missing. Armag is unrelated to Nyrissa. Instead, he was raised by a hag covey with a grudge against Restov for some reason I can't remember. He's working with Irovetti to attack the player kingdom. There is also an extra barony in tabletop, lead by Baron Drelev who in the game is insane and held in Irovetti's dungeon. The entire location is missing from the game. Anyway, Armag and Irovetti attacked and defeated him, and now Armag holds his daughter hostage to force him to send his troops against the player kingdom. This is where the tabletop introduces the mass combat rules, and the chapter uses them extensively in the ensuing war. The players defeat Drelev's and Armag's armies (Irovetti stays in the shadows) and rescue Drelev's daughter after the boss-fight with Armag.
    Chapter 6 is the same in broad strokes, but not the methods. Irovetti launches an invasion during the tournament, and the war is mostly fought with armies. The Whiterose abbey is a trap by Irovetti, its location deliberately leaked along with rumors of a powerful weapon developed there to turn the tide of the war. The nymph the players save is not Nyrissa's sister, but the Briar's guardian. Pitax and its NPCs are significantly less developed, but the players have the choice to siege it down or infiltrate it and take out Irovetti themselves which plays fairly similar to the game. This chapter is the first the players have the chance to hear about Nyrissa, either from the Nymph or from Irovetti. The Briar is a fairly powerful weapon, and the players are encouraged to use it as it gets even stronger from killing fae.
    Chapter 7 a remix of the game's final two chapters, with more than a few differences. Nyrissa herself is wholly evil and wants the Briar only because it's a weapon especially powerful against her. Her backstory and motivation is different: She fell in love with an Eldest and sought to rule by his side. The other Eldest punished and exiled both of them for this transgression, but then promptly forgot about them. There is no Apology requiring a thousand grains. Nyrissa just wants to drag the Stolen Lands into the First World to expand her realm. Her lover doesn't make an appearance. The chapter itself begins with Nyrissa overlaying the player kingdom with the First world, and the players have a time limit to beat back those incursions that occur randomly anywhere, attack her realm in the western forest and defeat her before she succeeds. The forest itself is fairly different, with many otherworldly encounters and fights with Nyrissa's lieutenants. In addition to the Gnarly Witch and the Worm-that-Walks ,a medussa sorceress and Ilthuliak the black dragon serve Nyrissa. The House at the Edge of Time has more enemy variety, but the dungeon itself is fairly straightforward with only some time-fuckery involved. Nyrissa herself cannot be talked down or have her heart restored and cannot love a PC. It all ends in a fight, with the wielder of the Briar gaining a lot of buffs against her. After she's killed, it's all over. There's no Lantern King in the tabletop.

    source https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/pathfinder-kingmaker-enhanced-edition-turn-based-combat-coming-august-18th.125267/page-693#post-6796713
    source https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/pathfinder-kingmaker-enhanced-edition-turn-based-combat-coming-august-18th.125267/page-693#post-6796713

    PsicoVicDrHappyAngryJaheiras_Witness
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 604
    edited July 5
    Yeah, they improved the OC a lot for the game. It was much more sandbox-y.

    Ch4 was much more empty. You have all the Tors of Levenies to explore with very few events for all that huge map.

  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,476
    That's interesting, it certainly felt like there should've been more with Baron Drelev. I mean he's just snide to you at ceremony where you become baron and then you don't see him again till
    The Pitax dungeons and his mind's all messed up and he thinks he's dead, but nothing more comes of it.
    It would've been more interesting if they mentioned and involved his troops more in chapter 5.

    Overall it sounds like the modifications and additions were pretty extensive and really helped to flesh out the story more.

    BallpointMan
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 510
    Humble Bundle has a deal on Pathfinder 2ed books. The highest tier includes a physical copy of the core rulebook for $30 (shipping extra). Heck, the $5 tier includes the core PDF so you can’t really go wrong if you have any interest in 2ed.

    Could be a good deal considering the 2ed Kingmaker PnP AP is coming this year.

    https://www.humblebundle.com/books/pathfinder-second-edition-paizo-inc-books

  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,476
    There's a massive patch in beta available
    https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/2792745783012956667/

    It has a ton of fixes for a lot of things, but the biggest is it adds turn based mode to the game and game pad support in preparing for the console port. I'm not into either of those, but if those are your thing they'll be in the game shortly.

    One of the things that jumped out at me was that nunchaku can be picked by the rogues finesse training. I tried to play a dex based dual weilding nunchaku user and was disappointed you couldn't take it as an option, so you can do that now.

    bleusteelSkatanBallpointManPsicoVic
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,728
    Yeah... sitting testing that one out. Having bug fixes is of course nice and all. But I really couldn't care less about its new features: controller support and TB mode.

    That, and it will take some time for my mods of choice to become compatible with the new update anyway.

  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,412
    There's a massive patch in beta available
    https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/2792745783012956667/

    It has a ton of fixes for a lot of things, but the biggest is it adds turn based mode to the game and game pad support in preparing for the console port. I'm not into either of those, but if those are your thing they'll be in the game shortly.

    One of the things that jumped out at me was that nunchaku can be picked by the rogues finesse training. I tried to play a dex based dual weilding nunchaku user and was disappointed you couldn't take it as an option, so you can do that now.

    Nah, I don't think this game is salvageable for me at this point anyway. Good decision to add TB mode though, it's TB mod that made this game even playable for me.

    SkatanPsicoVic
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