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Pathfinder : Kingmaker

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  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,554
    It surprises me how ill prepared people are. I literally went into Vordakai's Tomb with about 30 rations my first time. It was really clear I was going further away from my capital than ever before and I knew I needed to be ready. The fact that you fight soul eaters and defaced sisters in spots not far from the valley of the dead also prepared me to have a decent amount of restoration spells memorized. I also always made sure to pack a rope and pry bar.

    Daily supplies for a camp do weigh a lot even not counting the tent. A gallon of water is over 8 pounds by itself. Water's not just for drinking but has many necessary functions like food preparation, cleaning wounds and your body as well as cleaning your equipment and cooking ware. You can assume the weight probably also includes things pots and pans for cooking, tinder if you're in areas where it's not accessible and maybe actual dry logs for fire in areas where there's not much wood as well as blankets/sleeping bags.

    PsicoVicDinoDin
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,605
    Vallmyr wrote: »
    As I was writing the below I realized I was being obtuse but for in depth weight on camping supplies according to PnP rules click below. TL;DR, camping supplies should weigh more if this was PnP.
    I mean, it's not unreasonable? If we assume "Camping supplies and rations" is a tent, rations, and a bedroll.

    A small tent in pathfinder is 20lbs, a bedroll is 5lbs, and a day's worth of rations is 1lb. So each camping supplies should be at least 26lbs while in game each is 10. If we assume 1 big tent like is shown in game then one that can hold four creatures is 40lbs. But since it's a 6 man party you'd go up to a pavilion which is 60lbs.

    So 60lb tent, 6 bedrolls (30lbs) and then rations for 6 people, 6lbs.

    So they should be 96lbs if we're going by PnP. Granted the only thing that would get consumed is the rations but in game rations for 6 is only 60lbs.

    But you don't consume any of that but the rations. The tent and bedroll are indefinitely reuseable. And more than one person can sleep in a tent. The game makes you carry a separate tent and bedroll for every rest.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,425
    Oh, I bring that up in the last sentence, and thought that it weighing less justifies the fact that it's consumed.

    I guess a better system is you need to carry tent which is x pounds, sleeping bags that can be one item that weighs x pounds, and then you just either re-buy rations or hunt.

  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,159
    Vallmyr wrote: »
    As I was writing the below I realized I was being obtuse but for in depth weight on camping supplies according to PnP rules click below. TL;DR, camping supplies should weigh more if this was PnP.
    I mean, it's not unreasonable? If we assume "Camping supplies and rations" is a tent, rations, and a bedroll.

    A small tent in pathfinder is 20lbs, a bedroll is 5lbs, and a day's worth of rations is 1lb. So each camping supplies should be at least 26lbs while in game each is 10. If we assume 1 big tent like is shown in game then one that can hold four creatures is 40lbs. But since it's a 6 man party you'd go up to a pavilion which is 60lbs.

    So 60lb tent, 6 bedrolls (30lbs) and then rations for 6 people, 6lbs.

    So they should be 96lbs if we're going by PnP. Granted the only thing that would get consumed is the rations but in game rations for 6 is only 60lbs.

    But you don't consume any of that but the rations. The tent and bedroll are indefinitely reuseable. And more than one person can sleep in a tent. The game makes you carry a separate tent and bedroll for every rest.
    Well, you're probably carrying firewood for your fires as you wouldn't be sure of its availability everywhere you may go. Also food in a game like this is not like food from a supermarket. For a pound of consumable food, you probably will have to carry several pounds of raw ingredients. And you should need at least one pound of consumable food per meal per person, and way more than that especially for the warrior types and if you haven't eaten all day. You're also going to be consuming a lot of water throughout your adventuring, not just when you rest, and that could be factored in as well. All in all, I agree that 10 lbs is quite reasonable for rations.

  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,182
    Vallmyr wrote: »
    As I was writing the below I realized I was being obtuse but for in depth weight on camping supplies according to PnP rules click below. TL;DR, camping supplies should weigh more if this was PnP.
    I mean, it's not unreasonable? If we assume "Camping supplies and rations" is a tent, rations, and a bedroll.

    A small tent in pathfinder is 20lbs, a bedroll is 5lbs, and a day's worth of rations is 1lb. So each camping supplies should be at least 26lbs while in game each is 10. If we assume 1 big tent like is shown in game then one that can hold four creatures is 40lbs. But since it's a 6 man party you'd go up to a pavilion which is 60lbs.

    So 60lb tent, 6 bedrolls (30lbs) and then rations for 6 people, 6lbs.

    So they should be 96lbs if we're going by PnP. Granted the only thing that would get consumed is the rations but in game rations for 6 is only 60lbs.

    But you don't consume any of that but the rations. The tent and bedroll are indefinitely reuseable. And more than one person can sleep in a tent. The game makes you carry a separate tent and bedroll for every rest.

    Yes, the game sacrifices realism for a predictable game metric. This isn't exactly something novel in a game.

    DrHappyAngry
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,554
    DinoDin wrote: »
    Yes, the game sacrifices realism for a predictable game metric. This isn't exactly something novel in a game.

    This. They're abstracting away some of the individual supplies and just using rations rather than having to have individual items like fire wood, kindling, water, food, pots and pans, oil (for cleaning metal weapons and armor), whetstones, tents and blankets. Think about how much water you'd be going through just washing the gore off, cleaning yourself and your gear as well as cooking. I'd think most of the food made at the camps would be stews that were boiled to make sure they're sanitary, just like what most people in the middle ages ate. Not that they understood that it killed the bacteria, just that they had noticed people didn't get sick from eating well boiled food.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,056
    Most importantly. In PnP. You can get a goddamn wagon and cart the rations on it ;)

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 743
    edited October 10
    And get some freaking horses or boats so you can actually travel the lands faster than a turtle... heck, you can even summon them.

    scriver
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Wait, wait, wait... animal companions also require their rations each day! A smilodon ain't exactly a breatharian after all. But on the other hand, I think Jaethal won't need her portion on food or water. That's one of the upsides of being undead after all.

    scriver
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,554
    Dragging a cart into a dungeon is not a good idea.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,056
    You leave the cart at the gate and send the hirelings back up to get the rations and risk all ambushes ;)

    PsicoVic
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,448
    scriver wrote: »
    You leave the cart at the gate and send the hirelings back up to get the rations and risk all ambushes ;)

    I read "hirelings" as "halflings", and now I'm imagining a cart being pulled by a cadre of halflings.

    FWIW - I totally get why people dont like the ration system, but I always found it a fun gameplay decision. Having mods that adjust their weight seems like a wonderful compromise to give everyone what they want out of it.

    (I do think it would have been another interesting level of management if the game allowed you to use spells to create rations or something approaching them. Then I'd get to decide between spell slots, weight and risk when in a dungeon).

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 743
    I supposse you can create a spell that summons a ration. RAW in the "create food and water" spell the summons disappear if you do not consume them so you cannot hoard lots of rations for later. I.e. you actually have to spend a spell to get them. I do not think that would be game-breaking.
    Not so easy to make it as a mod the "disappearing food" part tho.

    In "Call of the wild" they have the "song or march" for the skalds, that reduces fatigue when you´re travelling, but that is based on a food buff already in the game.

  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,448
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    I supposse you can create a spell that summons a ration. RAW in the "create food and water" spell the summons disappear if you do not consume them so you cannot hoard lots of rations for later. I.e. you actually have to spend a spell to get them. I do not think that would be game-breaking.
    Not so easy to make it as a mod the "disappearing food" part tho.

    In "Call of the wild" they have the "song or march" for the skalds, that reduces fatigue when you´re travelling, but that is based on a food buff already in the game.

    In my mind, it would be something like - an option in the rest screen. You need to have the spell slots prepared, and for each one, you get a ration (or something).

    Hunting/Use Supplies/Summon Food. Something like that. In a dungeon, you lose the Hunting option, but can still use your supplies or summon food.

    PsicoVicSkatan
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,522
    edited October 11
    Everything about Pathfinder tells me that I would like it, and I should really try it, but tabletop RPG worlds are a big investment for me. I enjoy roleplaying a character most when I am familiar with the world enough to know what my place in it "should" be. That means I gotta read source books, think things over, it's a lotta work I tell ya.

    But I think I might do it to give Kingmaker a try, at least. I've seen almost nothing but praise of it.

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,638
    What annoyed me about the ration system is I was already carrying a crap load of food from the ingredients from recipes.

    It should have been weighted tents, with heavier ones giving better resting bonuses, the ability to scavenge for flammable material for cooking and warmth much like the hunter could hunt to save rations and the food you find being consumable (but also perishable) with the recipes giving bonuses if you combine the right food and pass the cooking skill check.

    It was poor implementation IMO.

    Besides that, I did enjoy the resting mechanic more in this game than in others. I am not a fan of rest scumming in RPGs and the skill checks for each party member during rest was great.

    Skatan
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,182
    Everything about Pathfinder tells me that I would like it, and I should really try it, but tabletop RPG worlds are a big investment for me. I enjoy roleplaying a character most when I am familiar with the world enough to know what my place in it "should" be. That means I gotta read source books, think things over, it's a lotta work I tell ya.

    But I think I might do it to give Kingmaker a try, at least. I've seen almost nothing but praise of it.

    It's an excellent game imo. But, fair warning, it's not big on the "role-playing" aspect of RPG. It's very much geared towards people who want to enjoy number-crunching and near endless combat scenarios.

    There are plenty of role-playing elements. Lots of moral choices and other decisions that have long lasting impact in the game. But it's all so rudimentary and vanilla that it's impossible to recommend the game based on that aspect.

  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,182
    deltago wrote: »
    What annoyed me about the ration system is I was already carrying a crap load of food from the ingredients from recipes.

    It should have been weighted tents, with heavier ones giving better resting bonuses, the ability to scavenge for flammable material for cooking and warmth much like the hunter could hunt to save rations and the food you find being consumable (but also perishable) with the recipes giving bonuses if you combine the right food and pass the cooking skill check.

    It was poor implementation IMO.

    Besides that, I did enjoy the resting mechanic more in this game than in others. I am not a fan of rest scumming in RPGs and the skill checks for each party member during rest was great.

    Yeah, in a funny irony one of the best games to create an effective resting mechanic was the original NES Final Fantasy. It was absurd from a realism perspective, but they did this exact thing where you could buy a "tent" or "cabin" or "house" etc. As a way to rest. With the varying levels healing more and restoring more spells. More RPG's that rely on a resting mechanic should adopt some kind of iteration of this mechanic.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,425
    This is a slight side tangent, but the original Final Fantasy I think is a fantastic "D&D but it's not D&D" game.

    BallpointManDinoDinWarChiefZeke
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