(...)But in a computer game you *need* standardising and therefore balancing. Because there is no DM.
(...)
This is what i disagree completely. In fact, this excuse is why don't get a decent D&D adaptation since NWN2 and this is one reason...
I would also make the dead walk summon stronger undead on epic level since they become worthless for ToB too.
As for tentacles, Chilling Tentacles are the most ICONIC 3.5e WLK invocation. Even on D&D Online which doesn't follow the P&P rules, they made it scale to higher levels... Imagine if fireball was only 3d6 damage, evokers would lose one of the most iconic spells and it would be sad. If was up to me, i would make it into a summon with ZERO move speed that has start with a THAC0 of 18, gaining -1 TACH0 per caster level up to -8 THAC0(lv30) and starting with 2 attacks per round and gain one each 6 caster levels up to lv 30 with 7 attacks per round and each attack being a melee attack with 1d6+4 bludgeoning damage, and grappling enemies on attack + the 2d6 automatic cold damage. The duration would be equal to caster level.
No, you always need boundaries in a game. Imagine if you could just roll for intimidation or torture. Or get pretty much everything you ever need through Charm Person. But you need to make cuts because of scale, lack of human DM flexibility and with it vulnerability to exploits. It's not only Warlocks.
I mean, why am I not able to seduce that skank Firkraag if I'm playing a bard (to give you the most blatant exploit of all) because in PnP I can do it.
I'm all in favour for everyone making their own homebrew mod that's making the story better and restricting themselves from playing in an exploity way. But the broader the audience, the more you need to have an eye on that.
But I feel like we're opening a whole other discussion with that. I'm just gonna let it rest as again, that's opinion vs opinion it seems.
But why the constant comparison to the power level of the sorcerer though? A 60d6 damage sequencer on a sorcerer is so ridiculously low, I always forget it exists after the 2 hours playtime where it's actually good. As soon as Improved Alacrity hits, a sorcerer needs one level seven spell and a little setup time for ~500d6. And I don't know why it is that important for you to go there power level wise. That's pretty boring after the second time to be honest.
I'm not saying your tentacles wouldn't be cool. I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying that I personally would just be rather bummed if they turn out to be another "I win button" when they stun everything forever while ignoring MR or do nothing at all depending on your level. Then I rather have them be useless. Because there will very likely be nothing in between.
The Warlock deals good damage, I don't feel like a burden or anything. I'm easily able to beat the game with him. And the Skeleton Warriors get replaced by the Gate HLAs, so I don't really care about them. And for some magic tanking, they're still ok.
Siebenfinger, there are a >HUGE< difference between having the most iconic invocation of a warlock scaling like literally any spell in the game scales and making spells hard to translate like "charm person" equal to P&P...
Take this dragon that a lot of people consider one of the hardest. Before talking to the dragon, i've stopped the time and casted a lot of lower resistance on him. Then my chain contingency casted the rest, lowering his resistance by about 150%. My sequencer casted 3 Greater Malison on him, meaning that he has a 12 penalty on saves and then, i casted stop time again, putted 3 skull traps in a sequences and ended his life in a fraction of a minute.
Tentacles on P&P aren't "win button". Freedom of movement on 3.5e prevents the grapple for locking you, resistance to budgeoning damage prevents the physical damage and from cold the cold damage. Note that on my suggestion, tentacles has a THAC0 instead of automatically hitting the enemy. If all tentacles hit at lv 30 and deal max damage, you will get like 12 cold(2d6) + 7 * 10(d6+4) damage or 82 damage on max level. That is far less than what any caster(divine or arcane) before reaching "epic levels"; even a lv 10 Wizard can outDPS a warlock. In other words, warlocks would have more durability and unlimited power but EXTREMELY less power.
Once a warlock reaches the 14d6 on this mod, what is the point of using any other invocation? The max damage of a fully maxed warlock on this mod with EB is 84(14*6). How much damage a lv cap "ranger" can output in the same level????
Even DDO, a game where they don't care about the P&P rules, the black tentacles ". All enemies within the zone take 1d4 Bludgeoning damage per caster level (Scales with Spell Power) every 2 seconds as the tentacles try to grab them, " https://ddowiki.com/page/Evard's_Black_Tentacles
My suggestion of alteration is far less than other games. I mean, 1d4 / caster level, at lv 30 would be 30d4 with no THAC0 to hit enemies or 120 max damage. What i don't wanna is warlocks that are just dumbed down archers like on nwn2 where there are a total of zero pvp builds of then on any non modded server...
@SorcererV1ct0r I have absolutely nothing against you buffing the damage. As we both seem to agree, it's nothing against that of an arcane caster.
But if I understand you correctly, everything that doesn't have freedom will get hit by 7 attacks per round each dealing ~40 damage with a thaco higher than an epic fighter's that also bypass MR. And you specified no save so I have to assume the grapple applies automatically on hit?
If that is not the case please correct me here because then I simply misunderstand you.
But if that is the case, just being in the tentacle zone for 2 seconds is already game over for pretty much everything that isn't immune to hold. And very few things are. And those who are take damage like from a fighter.
For your other damage argument: 14d6 is by far not the damage cap for the Warlock.
Hellfire Blast is 14d10 of unmitigated fire.
Hellblade (I think, maybe it was the gauntlets) pushes elemental damage by 20%
Hellfire Shield pushes it by 50%
Even if only additive, that's *24d10* bypassing pretty much everything.
Before that you have the ring for 40% increased cold damage.
Electrifying Blast has a stun on a -6 modifier from level 14 upwards (measly 880k XP).
Also on level 14 you can get a blast bypassing MR.
That's why I'm saying the tentacles in their current mechanic are not balanceable. Because either they are worthless because your other spells are stupidly strong already. Or they are so good that they are by far the best spell you will ever get. That is my problem. If they have an easy save, Blasts are still better. If not, everything else you have will be weaker and you will only cast tentacles and defensive spells from there on. It needs a rework instead of a number buff.
@Flashburn are you sure about the fiends and atweaks? Because I just tried it on the weekend and it didn't work. But it was a mega install that I paused after EET to install Warlock in between, I don't know if something could have gone wrong there.
No Siebenfier, each tentacles only deals d6+4 a similar damage to a CROSSBOW. And the THAC0 is not bigger than a fighter. My sorcerer with BBoD and Tenser transformation can reach -15 THAC0. 1 THAC0 per caster level is actually similar to 3.5e complete arcane where each lv up adds one BAB(base attack bonus). Since on 2e, THAC0 progress slower than on 3.5e, you can make 2 caster levels meaning +1 THAC0 for each tentacle. The damage non dependent on the tentacles is just the 2d6 cold.
As you have mentioned, all other invocations PALES in comparison to the EB...
And the duration of all invocations are too short.
Can we please stop the comparisons with the sorcerer? That's the most overpowered class there is. A fighter's thaco stops at 0, contrary to that. With some buffs, -8/-10 with grand mastery and weapon bonus is doable, but usually not much more.
(I guess I misunderstood you then concerning the damage. My bad, sorry. The damage is the easier to balance problem though.)
As I said, such a strong thaco with a physical hold effect is just bonkers. Once the enemy is held, you move out of sight and cast it again. Now it's 14 attacks. And even with only 5 attacks, one of them is bound to hit. It might take longer, but it's still game over for the bad guy once the first attack hits.
And yes, of course the offensive invocations pale vs the blast shapes when it comes to damage. Otherwise the blasts would be redundant, wouldn't they?
About the crowd control effect: I'd say there are still quite a few options if you'd be interested in some minor change. One would be to reduce the range that it can't be used out of sight of an enemy (while leaving it as you want it to be otherwise). They charge you and can't interrupt you? There I can accept such heavy punishment. Gladly, even. Might look into the cast time then too, though.
The second would be to just change the hold effect to an automatic aoe slow vs everything not immune to cold as long as they're in the field (kind of like the Ice Storm spell, only better and with more style)
In both options, it would be more of a defensive void zone instead of a one trick kill button doing the same like Electrifying Blast only way better (or way worse as it is now).
(a third one would be to just make them save vs the stun with a modifier like with Electrifying Blast only each round and then change that blast's secondary effect)
Why not compare to Sorcerer? Almost all of his invocations, except eldritch and tenacious plague(based on creeping doom) blast are made with arcane spells as basis. Warlocks on P&P aren't "eldritch weaker versions of archers", they invocations are AMAZING. I would make the "the dead walk" create a bone colossus at lv 20+,
And sorcerers aren't OP. Dual classes like Fighter/Cleric are insanely better and the most powerful class IMO is "Don't forget Ranger/Cleric multi. Starts as an absolute powerhouse from level 1; dual wielding blunt weapons with 2 * in dual wield from the get go. Unlike Fighter/Mage dual or multis, can use full armor with divine spell casting and gets both druid and cleric spells." source https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/29912/overpowered-classes-the-fun-begins
I don't know how you play your Sorcerer, but Fighter/Cleric does not only lose every single 1v1 against a Sorcerer, the only time where he beats him in damage output is vs weak non-mage enemies. And then only because the sorcerer needs some time to set up before he easily quadruples everything that guy does.
I'm sorry, but I really get the impression that not only do you not know about the sorcerer's power level (or choose to ignore it).
It seems, your mind is set in stone concerning pretty much everything about the Warlock, too, since you didn't even bother to think about the changes I suggested. So I'll leave it at that now.
I do wish you the best for your effort of improving the Warlock how you like it best though.
Disabled alternate spell selection for IWDEE
Reworked Hideous Blow - Hideous Blow can now channel the selected blast for one attack per round
Improved Eldritch Cone and Doom animations
Fixed IWD warlock item costs
Added optional component for gaining HLAs in IWDEE
The Dead Walk summon is now unique, also no longer requires to have no other summons. Summoning a second revenant will cause the original to die.
I respect the hard work to give a amazing mod to the community but even a "single summon limit"... Are you using the Complete Arcane as a source to warlock or NWN2?
And is not as if nwn2 warlock are a huge disappointment compared to P&P warlocks. They are a huge disappointment even if compared to other iterations like DDO. Anyway, reading more, seems that will be extremely hard to create a 3.5e similar warlock. I an not talking about Shadowmaster feats that even Warlock that allow WLKs to casts Shades at will or any conjuration up to tier 8 at will. Or even mod your mod to be more 3.5e like. So i an thinking on making a 5e WLK.
Things like "short rest", i can't do with IE, but having a pact and each pact giving unique spell like abilities and he having the same spells of a sorcerer BUT with less
A (long) text comparing warlocks on P&P and on TTRPG
Well, i said that NWN2 warlocks are completely trash by a lot of reasons. Among the reasons, i can list >
The DC of your Eldritch Blast is bugged
The game threats you as a half level caster to overcome spell resistance.
lot of invocations that on P&P are improvements over Sorc/Wiz spells like wall of Wall of Perilous Flame are NERFED in relation to Sorc/Wiz spells. World of change is probably the most extreme case of a huge nerf. A DARK invocation that you can only obtain at lv 16+, near end game, would be only useful among lv 1 to 6 thanks to his nerfs.
Other invocations are nerfed on warlock and on "sorc/wiz" counterpart. Tentacles having a fix +5 AB means 5% change of hitting any enemy with more than 25 AC. And allowing a fort save instead of a grapple check kills the invocation. On P&P is caster level + 8 to hit and the grapple also scales with CL.
The dead walk limited to only one summon.
You can't get feats that you can on P&P like point blank attack
A lot of things like Eldritch Glaive that allow you to excel on melee got removed from the game.
And this comparing to 3.5e, 5e received massive changes to warlocks. They no longer have unlimited power BUT their power can be regain in a short rest instead of a long rest. 4e IDK much about warlocks on 4e, but in general, a lot of DM's aren't reluctant on allowing 3.5e warlocks and now, seems that DM's encourages players to be warlocks.
But in general, everything that is possible to do with 3.5e warlocks, you can do in 5e with less raw destructive eldritch power. Including a melee warlock with the pact of the blade. Warlocks has way less versatility than Wizards BUT only needs a short rest to regain most of his powers.
Other game who adapted warlock is sword coast legends. In a DLC. Despite butchering the D&D rules, they din't ruinned warlocks. DDO also butchered D&D rules but warlocks are amazing in DDO. Despite only having 3 pacts to choose form, each pact changes a lot on the gameplay.
One alteration that i particularly liked is that the signature invocation(3)/cantrip(5e) is no longer pure force. Now depending upon your pact, you gain different damage types who adds do your force damage
The archfey gives SONIC, a element rarely resisted BUT subjected to evasion and improved evasion
The great old one, ACID damage. And has a WILL save.
The fiend, FIRE damage and has a FORT save. Synergies well with tieflings
On DDO, Warlocks also doesn't have 4 tiers of invocations(least/lesser/great/dark) nor 9 like on 5e, they have 6 but they can learn powerful spells like Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Trap the Soul and Wail of the Banshee ( https://ddowiki.com/page/Warlock_spells )
Other amazing implementation of warlocks is the NWN1 - PRC mod. The mod includes even epic feats. And some invocations like World of changing allow you to do this. Transofrm the enemy into a chicken; like on P&P.
@AionZ Do I have to reinstall the mod or can I just place the new files in the override-folder to update the 1.3-version from yesterday to the new one with the bugfixes?
AionZ, I've been playing with this mod and it's a lot of fun.
I have a suggestion for the Eldritch Blast casting with shapes -- I find it a bit tedious to click the spell and then wait for a second level menu to choose a shape each time. Since there are only a few shapes, could you simply make each shape a different spell to get rid of the second choice?
One more thing. One thing that bugs me is people not wanting for me to compare WLK to Mages/Wizards and Sorcerers. Warlocks always was wiz/sorc equivalent. On 2e, they are a variety of the wizard class, on 3.5e, they was banned by many DMs by being "too powerful" since their invocations is just at will improved versions of sorc spells. On 5e, they have acess to all spells that a Wizard can cast, invocations at will and regain power in a short rest. They just has way less flexibility than a wizard.
Someone who only played 3.5e would think that 5e warlock is a huge nerf. Someone who only played nwn2 would think that 5e wlk is a huge buff.
That said, i think that 5e warlock would be far easier to mod into BG/IWD than 3.5e WLK
I don't care. I'm not a D&D purist, and I'm not rebuilding this mod from the ground up after spending who-knows-how-long just coding the interactions just to get the damn thing to work. You also seem to fail to recognize that balance is relative and doesn't just translate 1:1 across different games. This version's warlock's blasts do not have to roll to hit and scales differently due to class xp tables which is not the case in 3e, so it's ridiculous to use NWN2's warlock as any sort of argument for this adaptation's balance.
I cannot speak for the NWN2 warlock's balance but the last test run through IWDEE my warlock hit effectively permanent -20 AC at around level 12 and could output enough damage to take the lion's share of the kills from the party. The Hideous Blow change was also a huge buff overall to single-target damage output, which I think is fine. Not every class has to be able to AoE wipe everything in one round just because the stupidly broken mage gets to do that.
This is the only statement I'll make regarding this topic. I'm probably going to diverge from the original incarnations of the invocations I made with personal tweaks, but I'm not taking direct reference from anything else unless I feel like it.
Sorry if my comments offended someone. I just don't think that balance is more important than fun, variety and immersion(and what is the balance of greater and darker invocations being worthless on late game?). BG is a unbalanced game. You can solo the game naked with some classes while others have a hard time even with full party. And exactly by it that the game is fun. All classic RPG's are unbalanced. I prefer any Gold Box game over Sword Coast Legends, Neverwinter mmo and other """balanced""" D&D products which doesn't care about the rules. My point is that warlocks are competitive to sorcerer and wizard on DDO, on NWN/PRC, on NWN2 with spell fixes/wlk reworked, on 2e, on 3.5e, on 5e...
My point is just that seeing something being ultra nerfed can cause frustration on the fans of that thing. Imagine someone who played TT WLK for years, no longer has a group, and decided to play NWN2 WLK, the frustration that seeing his favorite class unable to do anything... The same thing happens with movie adaptation of books. Seeing your favorite character destroyed in a movie is not fun or engaging.
But differently than nwn2, your mod shows exactly that warlocks are not P&P warlocks on the text. Nobody will download and get frustrated. Sorry for all of my texts and thanks for your answer. I an reading some things about modding on my free time and will try to make a 5e WLK adapted to a 2e game. Due short rest nature, i think that a subkit for sorcerers with less spells known but more spells per day and unique at will abilities would be a cool way to adapt 5e. That way, people who wanna a more true D&D experience and people who wanna a more balanced experience will be happy. Thanks for your time and awnser.
Updated to v1.4.
Added portrait icons for Beguiling Influence, Dark One's Own Luck and Leaps and Bounds
Blast shapes of eldritch essences are now individual spells in the spellbook
Eldritch Chain should no longer chain to party members
Eldritch Cone is now 90-degree angle, makes saving throw at -2
Eldritch Doom now makes saving throw at -4
As requested, eldritch essences are now their own individual spells, making it a bit less micro-intensive to select the blast shape. They do clutter up the spellbook but there's not much I can do about that. Background scripts automatically add shapes to the spellbook on level-up at the requisite levels, but if there's ever any issue with not getting blast shapes for a particular essence please notify me.
The rest of the changes are mainly QoL and bugfixes. The AoE shapes were buffed a bit as their effects were a little disappointing for their long cast time and average size.
...
Blast shapes of eldritch essences are now individual spells in the spellbook
...
As requested, eldritch essences are now their own individual spells, making it a bit less micro-intensive to select the blast shape. They do clutter up the spellbook but there's not much I can do about that. Background scripts automatically add shapes to the spellbook on level-up at the requisite levels, but if there's ever any issue with not getting blast shapes for a particular essence please notify me.
Excellent, that was fast!
What do you think of the change? Is the increased spellbook clutter worth the elimination of the blast shape menu? I will start a new game to try this out.
I installed v1.6 (selected old spell selection option) on BGEE and started a new game. I see a message to select invocations, but nothing come up. I then click on the quick cast icon and choose invocations. Again nothing happens. I thought I should be able to choose something like Leaps & Bounds or Dark Ones Own Luck (least evocation)? Am I suppose to get any choices at 1st level or is this an issue?
EDIT: I EEKeepered to 250k and found I do get invocations. I did notice the in game descriptions of Beguiling Influence, Dark One's Own Luck, and Leaps and Bounds do not match the v1.6 notes above during the selection process. They do seem to match in the spellbook.
Dark One's Own Luck scales with every three points of Charisma instead of two
Leaps and Bounds grants Movement Rate instead of Armor Class, scales with three points of Charisma instead of two
Agh! Nerfs to my favourite buffs! They're still great though and will continue to be first on my list.
It was a bit OP when having max charisma plus tome plus Cha boosting items. Although I did not get to BG2 yet, Warlocks can also cast friends spell from wizard scrolls once they have levelled up enough. Buff to 25 cha and then cast these invocations, thats a lot of luck and AC!
The Dead Walk says it should last 8 hrs, but is expires after a much shorter time (like an hour of game time).
EDIT: Speaking of the dead walk, WOW is it powerful in BGEE. Seems to have normal weapon immunity (or maybe a fantastic AC). Attacks inflict nice damage. I am only 7th level and have the weakest version. Have to wonder what the better versions will do.
Another question: is it the intended behavior to have to wait a full in-game round before I can choose to use another invocation, EB and otherwise? The submenu for either won't appear until around 5-6 seconds after I cast one; I can't even queue up the next one. I figure it's a balance thing, but it makes the warlock my most inconvenient class to micromanage on the team in IWD.
I am otherwise enjoying the flavor this kit adds to my team, as my warlock is proving to be my most resilient toon (I'm sure the 92 stat roll helped, lol). Keep up the good work!
@AionZ
With EEex, can you transform Eldritch Blast into a weapon on the quick weapon list? I like the class's idea, but not the button presses of selecting EB so often!
... From the looks of it, the Warlock Kit mod is the impacter. It looks like it is re-writing SPECIFIC.ID without preserving the old fields.
This was apparently preventing other mods which reference SPECIFIC.ID from installing properly.
I read through the various bug fixes since April 16 when the issue was reported, but I didn't see anything specifically addressing this, so I was wondering if it had been fixed.
@AionZ, Hi! I've sent you pm some time ago, I'll repeat it here. Sorry if you already read it.
I've made Russian translation for this mod. However, mod's traification is not complete. There's still English lines in invocation selection menu, spell names for non-basic blasts, invocation swap and level up dialog boxes and I've seen some non-traified item descriptions in .tpa files. If you fix this, I will be able to complete the translation and send it to you.
I made a modded BGEET game and Entropic Warding crashes the game. I think the effects endlessly looping due to repeated references in the files causes it. It crashes in 2 cases:
1. Actual casting
2. Recasting it while it is still active
I fixed it by removing the looping references in the lettered files.
Also, is there a script for this class? It's kind of a pain to recast some of the other buffs and maybe add hotkeys to make the character spam some kind of blast. Is there anyway to edit the other spells for it to be cast automatically with the smart "script".
My current workaround is to use a hotkey script to cast blasts and all long buffs and short buffs
Comments
This is what i disagree completely. In fact, this excuse is why don't get a decent D&D adaptation since NWN2 and this is one reason...
I would also make the dead walk summon stronger undead on epic level since they become worthless for ToB too.
As for tentacles, Chilling Tentacles are the most ICONIC 3.5e WLK invocation. Even on D&D Online which doesn't follow the P&P rules, they made it scale to higher levels... Imagine if fireball was only 3d6 damage, evokers would lose one of the most iconic spells and it would be sad. If was up to me, i would make it into a summon with ZERO move speed that has start with a THAC0 of 18, gaining -1 TACH0 per caster level up to -8 THAC0(lv30) and starting with 2 attacks per round and gain one each 6 caster levels up to lv 30 with 7 attacks per round and each attack being a melee attack with 1d6+4 bludgeoning damage, and grappling enemies on attack + the 2d6 automatic cold damage. The duration would be equal to caster level.
edit : HEre is about the tentacles on D&D online, it scales with your caster level in a greater extent to the P&P ( https://ddowiki.com/page/Evard's_Black_Tentacles )
I also would make it has the same XP table of a sorcerer;
Note that a sorcerer sacrificing one tier 7 spell(sequencer) and 3 tier 3 spells(skull trap) can unleash 60d6 damage in a instant.
People even say taht 5e warlock is worthless compared to 3.5e.
I mean, why am I not able to seduce that skank Firkraag if I'm playing a bard (to give you the most blatant exploit of all) because in PnP I can do it.
I'm all in favour for everyone making their own homebrew mod that's making the story better and restricting themselves from playing in an exploity way. But the broader the audience, the more you need to have an eye on that.
But I feel like we're opening a whole other discussion with that. I'm just gonna let it rest as again, that's opinion vs opinion it seems.
But why the constant comparison to the power level of the sorcerer though? A 60d6 damage sequencer on a sorcerer is so ridiculously low, I always forget it exists after the 2 hours playtime where it's actually good. As soon as Improved Alacrity hits, a sorcerer needs one level seven spell and a little setup time for ~500d6. And I don't know why it is that important for you to go there power level wise. That's pretty boring after the second time to be honest.
I'm not saying your tentacles wouldn't be cool. I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying that I personally would just be rather bummed if they turn out to be another "I win button" when they stun everything forever while ignoring MR or do nothing at all depending on your level. Then I rather have them be useless. Because there will very likely be nothing in between.
The Warlock deals good damage, I don't feel like a burden or anything. I'm easily able to beat the game with him. And the Skeleton Warriors get replaced by the Gate HLAs, so I don't really care about them. And for some magic tanking, they're still ok.
Take this dragon that a lot of people consider one of the hardest. Before talking to the dragon, i've stopped the time and casted a lot of lower resistance on him. Then my chain contingency casted the rest, lowering his resistance by about 150%. My sequencer casted 3 Greater Malison on him, meaning that he has a 12 penalty on saves and then, i casted stop time again, putted 3 skull traps in a sequences and ended his life in a fraction of a minute.
Tentacles on P&P aren't "win button". Freedom of movement on 3.5e prevents the grapple for locking you, resistance to budgeoning damage prevents the physical damage and from cold the cold damage. Note that on my suggestion, tentacles has a THAC0 instead of automatically hitting the enemy. If all tentacles hit at lv 30 and deal max damage, you will get like 12 cold(2d6) + 7 * 10(d6+4) damage or 82 damage on max level. That is far less than what any caster(divine or arcane) before reaching "epic levels"; even a lv 10 Wizard can outDPS a warlock. In other words, warlocks would have more durability and unlimited power but EXTREMELY less power.
Once a warlock reaches the 14d6 on this mod, what is the point of using any other invocation? The max damage of a fully maxed warlock on this mod with EB is 84(14*6). How much damage a lv cap "ranger" can output in the same level????
Even DDO, a game where they don't care about the P&P rules, the black tentacles ". All enemies within the zone take 1d4 Bludgeoning damage per caster level (Scales with Spell Power) every 2 seconds as the tentacles try to grab them, " https://ddowiki.com/page/Evard's_Black_Tentacles
My suggestion of alteration is far less than other games. I mean, 1d4 / caster level, at lv 30 would be 30d4 with no THAC0 to hit enemies or 120 max damage. What i don't wanna is warlocks that are just dumbed down archers like on nwn2 where there are a total of zero pvp builds of then on any non modded server...
But if I understand you correctly, everything that doesn't have freedom will get hit by 7 attacks per round each dealing ~40 damage with a thaco higher than an epic fighter's that also bypass MR. And you specified no save so I have to assume the grapple applies automatically on hit?
If that is not the case please correct me here because then I simply misunderstand you.
But if that is the case, just being in the tentacle zone for 2 seconds is already game over for pretty much everything that isn't immune to hold. And very few things are. And those who are take damage like from a fighter.
For your other damage argument: 14d6 is by far not the damage cap for the Warlock.
Hellfire Blast is 14d10 of unmitigated fire.
Hellblade (I think, maybe it was the gauntlets) pushes elemental damage by 20%
Hellfire Shield pushes it by 50%
Even if only additive, that's *24d10* bypassing pretty much everything.
Before that you have the ring for 40% increased cold damage.
Electrifying Blast has a stun on a -6 modifier from level 14 upwards (measly 880k XP).
Also on level 14 you can get a blast bypassing MR.
That's why I'm saying the tentacles in their current mechanic are not balanceable. Because either they are worthless because your other spells are stupidly strong already. Or they are so good that they are by far the best spell you will ever get. That is my problem. If they have an easy save, Blasts are still better. If not, everything else you have will be weaker and you will only cast tentacles and defensive spells from there on. It needs a rework instead of a number buff.
@Flashburn are you sure about the fiends and atweaks? Because I just tried it on the weekend and it didn't work. But it was a mega install that I paused after EET to install Warlock in between, I don't know if something could have gone wrong there.
As you have mentioned, all other invocations PALES in comparison to the EB...
And the duration of all invocations are too short.
(I guess I misunderstood you then concerning the damage. My bad, sorry. The damage is the easier to balance problem though.)
As I said, such a strong thaco with a physical hold effect is just bonkers. Once the enemy is held, you move out of sight and cast it again. Now it's 14 attacks. And even with only 5 attacks, one of them is bound to hit. It might take longer, but it's still game over for the bad guy once the first attack hits.
And yes, of course the offensive invocations pale vs the blast shapes when it comes to damage. Otherwise the blasts would be redundant, wouldn't they?
About the crowd control effect: I'd say there are still quite a few options if you'd be interested in some minor change. One would be to reduce the range that it can't be used out of sight of an enemy (while leaving it as you want it to be otherwise). They charge you and can't interrupt you? There I can accept such heavy punishment. Gladly, even. Might look into the cast time then too, though.
The second would be to just change the hold effect to an automatic aoe slow vs everything not immune to cold as long as they're in the field (kind of like the Ice Storm spell, only better and with more style)
In both options, it would be more of a defensive void zone instead of a one trick kill button doing the same like Electrifying Blast only way better (or way worse as it is now).
(a third one would be to just make them save vs the stun with a modifier like with Electrifying Blast only each round and then change that blast's secondary effect)
How do you feel about something like that?
And sorcerers aren't OP. Dual classes like Fighter/Cleric are insanely better and the most powerful class IMO is "Don't forget Ranger/Cleric multi. Starts as an absolute powerhouse from level 1; dual wielding blunt weapons with 2 * in dual wield from the get go. Unlike Fighter/Mage dual or multis, can use full armor with divine spell casting and gets both druid and cleric spells." source https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/29912/overpowered-classes-the-fun-begins
I'm sorry, but I really get the impression that not only do you not know about the sorcerer's power level (or choose to ignore it).
It seems, your mind is set in stone concerning pretty much everything about the Warlock, too, since you didn't even bother to think about the changes I suggested. So I'll leave it at that now.
I do wish you the best for your effort of improving the Warlock how you like it best though.
Disabled alternate spell selection for IWDEE
Reworked Hideous Blow - Hideous Blow can now channel the selected blast for one attack per round
Improved Eldritch Cone and Doom animations
Fixed IWD warlock item costs
Added optional component for gaining HLAs in IWDEE
The Dead Walk summon is now unique, also no longer requires to have no other summons. Summoning a second revenant will cause the original to die.
And is not as if nwn2 warlock are a huge disappointment compared to P&P warlocks. They are a huge disappointment even if compared to other iterations like DDO. Anyway, reading more, seems that will be extremely hard to create a 3.5e similar warlock. I an not talking about Shadowmaster feats that even Warlock that allow WLKs to casts Shades at will or any conjuration up to tier 8 at will. Or even mod your mod to be more 3.5e like. So i an thinking on making a 5e WLK.
Things like "short rest", i can't do with IE, but having a pact and each pact giving unique spell like abilities and he having the same spells of a sorcerer BUT with less
A (long) text comparing warlocks on P&P and on TTRPG
Well, i said that NWN2 warlocks are completely trash by a lot of reasons. Among the reasons, i can list >
For those who wanna a more P&P like experience of warlock, i recommend warlock reworked ( https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/warlock-reworked-102g )
And this comparing to 3.5e, 5e received massive changes to warlocks. They no longer have unlimited power BUT their power can be regain in a short rest instead of a long rest. 4e IDK much about warlocks on 4e, but in general, a lot of DM's aren't reluctant on allowing 3.5e warlocks and now, seems that DM's encourages players to be warlocks.
But in general, everything that is possible to do with 3.5e warlocks, you can do in 5e with less raw destructive eldritch power. Including a melee warlock with the pact of the blade. Warlocks has way less versatility than Wizards BUT only needs a short rest to regain most of his powers.
Other game who adapted warlock is sword coast legends. In a DLC. Despite butchering the D&D rules, they din't ruinned warlocks. DDO also butchered D&D rules but warlocks are amazing in DDO. Despite only having 3 pacts to choose form, each pact changes a lot on the gameplay.
One alteration that i particularly liked is that the signature invocation(3)/cantrip(5e) is no longer pure force. Now depending upon your pact, you gain different damage types who adds do your force damage
On DDO, Warlocks also doesn't have 4 tiers of invocations(least/lesser/great/dark) nor 9 like on 5e, they have 6 but they can learn powerful spells like Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Trap the Soul and Wail of the Banshee ( https://ddowiki.com/page/Warlock_spells )
Other thing that a lot of people confuse is that warlocks aren't "clerics". They learn from their masters, but their relationship is more akin to master/apprentice than to cleric and his/her deity. https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/warlock/23721-why-do-people-still-think-that-your-patron-is-the
Other amazing implementation of warlocks is the NWN1 - PRC mod. The mod includes even epic feats. And some invocations like World of changing allow you to do this. Transofrm the enemy into a chicken; like on P&P.
And here is how much summons you can have
Fixed revenant turning hostile bug
Fixed HLA bugs for IWD
I have a suggestion for the Eldritch Blast casting with shapes -- I find it a bit tedious to click the spell and then wait for a second level menu to choose a shape each time. Since there are only a few shapes, could you simply make each shape a different spell to get rid of the second choice?
Cast spell -> Eldritch Blast Hideous Blow
instead of
Cast spell -> Eldritch Blast -> Hideous Blow
In any event, thanks for this mod!
Possible, yes. It'll mean a lot of work, though. Will get back to you on it.
Someone who only played 3.5e would think that 5e warlock is a huge nerf. Someone who only played nwn2 would think that 5e wlk is a huge buff.
That said, i think that 5e warlock would be far easier to mod into BG/IWD than 3.5e WLK
I cannot speak for the NWN2 warlock's balance but the last test run through IWDEE my warlock hit effectively permanent -20 AC at around level 12 and could output enough damage to take the lion's share of the kills from the party. The Hideous Blow change was also a huge buff overall to single-target damage output, which I think is fine. Not every class has to be able to AoE wipe everything in one round just because the stupidly broken mage gets to do that.
This is the only statement I'll make regarding this topic. I'm probably going to diverge from the original incarnations of the invocations I made with personal tweaks, but I'm not taking direct reference from anything else unless I feel like it.
My point is just that seeing something being ultra nerfed can cause frustration on the fans of that thing. Imagine someone who played TT WLK for years, no longer has a group, and decided to play NWN2 WLK, the frustration that seeing his favorite class unable to do anything... The same thing happens with movie adaptation of books. Seeing your favorite character destroyed in a movie is not fun or engaging.
But differently than nwn2, your mod shows exactly that warlocks are not P&P warlocks on the text. Nobody will download and get frustrated. Sorry for all of my texts and thanks for your answer. I an reading some things about modding on my free time and will try to make a 5e WLK adapted to a 2e game. Due short rest nature, i think that a subkit for sorcerers with less spells known but more spells per day and unique at will abilities would be a cool way to adapt 5e. That way, people who wanna a more true D&D experience and people who wanna a more balanced experience will be happy. Thanks for your time and awnser.
Added portrait icons for Beguiling Influence, Dark One's Own Luck and Leaps and Bounds
Blast shapes of eldritch essences are now individual spells in the spellbook
Eldritch Chain should no longer chain to party members
Eldritch Cone is now 90-degree angle, makes saving throw at -2
Eldritch Doom now makes saving throw at -4
As requested, eldritch essences are now their own individual spells, making it a bit less micro-intensive to select the blast shape. They do clutter up the spellbook but there's not much I can do about that. Background scripts automatically add shapes to the spellbook on level-up at the requisite levels, but if there's ever any issue with not getting blast shapes for a particular essence please notify me.
The rest of the changes are mainly QoL and bugfixes. The AoE shapes were buffed a bit as their effects were a little disappointing for their long cast time and average size.
Excellent, that was fast!
What do you think of the change? Is the increased spellbook clutter worth the elimination of the blast shape menu? I will start a new game to try this out.
EDIT: I EEKeepered to 250k and found I do get invocations. I did notice the in game descriptions of Beguiling Influence, Dark One's Own Luck, and Leaps and Bounds do not match the v1.6 notes above during the selection process. They do seem to match in the spellbook.
[spoiler/]
Agh! Nerfs to my favourite buffs! They're still great though and will continue to be first on my list.
It was a bit OP when having max charisma plus tome plus Cha boosting items. Although I did not get to BG2 yet, Warlocks can also cast friends spell from wizard scrolls once they have levelled up enough. Buff to 25 cha and then cast these invocations, thats a lot of luck and AC!
EDIT: Speaking of the dead walk, WOW is it powerful in BGEE. Seems to have normal weapon immunity (or maybe a fantastic AC). Attacks inflict nice damage. I am only 7th level and have the weakest version. Have to wonder what the better versions will do.
Excited to jump into this more; warlocks have become a bit of an obsession of mine in D&D lately. Thanks!
I am otherwise enjoying the flavor this kit adds to my team, as my warlock is proving to be my most resilient toon (I'm sure the 92 stat roll helped, lol). Keep up the good work!
With EEex, can you transform Eldritch Blast into a weapon on the quick weapon list? I like the class's idea, but not the button presses of selecting EB so often!
The conflict information was
This was apparently preventing other mods which reference SPECIFIC.ID from installing properly.
I read through the various bug fixes since April 16 when the issue was reported, but I didn't see anything specifically addressing this, so I was wondering if it had been fixed.
Thanks!
@Skitia @AionZ
I've made Russian translation for this mod. However, mod's traification is not complete. There's still English lines in invocation selection menu, spell names for non-basic blasts, invocation swap and level up dialog boxes and I've seen some non-traified item descriptions in .tpa files. If you fix this, I will be able to complete the translation and send it to you.
1. Actual casting
2. Recasting it while it is still active
I fixed it by removing the looping references in the lettered files.
Also, is there a script for this class? It's kind of a pain to recast some of the other buffs and maybe add hotkeys to make the character spam some kind of blast. Is there anyway to edit the other spells for it to be cast automatically with the smart "script".
My current workaround is to use a hotkey script to cast blasts and all long buffs and short buffs