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10 bandit Waylay should be removed from chapter 1

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Comments

  • bretbret Member Posts: 16
    edited April 27
    The guys that like to play no-reload, well thats entirely your choice, and of course ups the difficulty significantly.. The game was never meant to be played this way so, I hate to say it but, thats on you. Sure its fun and challenging, but it was designed to make you have to save like crazy as often as possible, and thats how they wanted you to do it. There's a reason it autosaves every time you leave an area, whether its a town or moving from section to section in the wilderness.. Ever play Diablo in hardcore mode, bust your a** getting to a certain point, only to finally die and guess what, have to start the entire game over again?


    For me, no-reload isn't about bragging rights or making the game more difficult just for the sake of it. Rather, playing with that constraint forces me to slow down and be more thoughtful and strategic, even for minor encounters. I like how that makes me play more creatively and make greater use of all available options (especially consumables). If I allow myself to reload, I find I get sloppier and over-reliant on lucky rolls to get through situations, and that's less rewarding.

    No-reload is very achievable and is mostly about maintaining focus and avoiding careless mistakes. But things like the 10-bandit waylay are frustrating because it's not really the player's fault; it can happen to a level 1 character on her first trip to Friendly Arm Inn, and there's very little you can do about it. If I die, I want it to be because I did something foolish/dangerous that I could have handled differently or avoided. I don't want it just be an unlucky roll from the random number generator :neutral:

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 1,941
    I almost never play no-reload, but my understanding is that:

    1. Even without this encounter, no-reload would require metagame knowledge or luck.
    2. This encounter is avoidable with metagame knowledge or luck.

    If both of those things are true, then I don't see how this encounter changes the equation.

  • Yann1989Yann1989 Member Posts: 92
    edited April 27
    Haha, this post is going to roll forever :) This is not the same kind of meta knowledge though, you have no clue what traveling hours are safe even if you have already finished the game several times. It's meta-game knowledge that comes from reading the beamdog forum ;) .

    PS : I don't advocate for a change of the 10 bandit encounter, my soul is fine with it, Baldur's Gate is a harsh game.

  • bretbret Member Posts: 16
    edited April 27
    It's true that no-reload requires extensive metagame knowledge, but the luck element can often be minimized with good tactics.

    The thing I find objectionable about the 10-bandit waylay is that (A) it can happen to a level 1 character before there are any tactical options available, and (B) the metagame knowledge for avoiding it is not very discoverable.

    With things like the location of traps, or that pesky fight with Tarnesh, players can gain the meta-knowledge simply through in-game experience gained from repeated playthroughs. But to discover the mechanics of the 10-bandit waylay (so you can reliably avoid it) you pretty much have to dig through internal game files (or rely on folks like @CamDawg to do the work for you! Thanks!)

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,033
    @bret "No-reload is very achievable and is mostly about maintaining focus and avoiding careless mistakes. But things like the 10-bandit waylay are frustrating because it's not really the player's fault; it can happen to a level 1 character on her first trip to Friendly Arm Inn, and there's very little you can do about it. If I die, I want it to be because I did something foolish/dangerous that I could have handled differently or avoided. I don't want it just be an unlucky roll from the random number generator :neutral:"

    You DO realize you are playing a game based on a dice system, right?

  • bretbret Member Posts: 16
    @ThacoBell

    I'm not sure what you're implying...

    Sure, there's plenty of randomness in BG attack rolls and saving throws. But the challenge (and fun) of no-reload gameplay is to avoid situations where one unlucky roll could kill CHARNAME. As a low-level character, that often means running away or chugging potions of invisibility. At higher levels there are a lot more interesting options, especially for arcane casters who can make themselves immune to almost everything and completely remove the element of luck from an encounter.

    I'm less familiar with BG 1 content, and until I read this discussion I didn't realize the 10-bandit waylay could be avoided. I often play mage characters and use SCS, and it's basically a death sentence if it occurs before I've managed to acquire a potion of invisibility. At least now I can avoid it...

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,033
    That's the very nature of the game.

  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 613
    Absolutely NOT.. It's part of the charm=P

  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 735
    My addiction to the mild dopamine hit of avoiding it and the adrenalin rush of it showing up leads me to oppose the removal of the circle of death :).

  • MonotremataMonotremata Member Posts: 70
    edited April 29
    bret said:

    @ThacoBell

    I'm not sure what you're implying...

    Sure, there's plenty of randomness in BG attack rolls and saving throws. But the challenge (and fun) of no-reload gameplay is to avoid situations where one unlucky roll could kill CHARNAME. As a low-level character, that often means running away or chugging potions of invisibility. At higher levels there are a lot more interesting options, especially for arcane casters who can make themselves immune to almost everything and completely remove the element of luck from an encounter.

    What he's implying is, thats how D&D works, including the random encounters (hence the "random" title). Have you ever played an actual pen and paper game of it?? I don't know how many times we restarted the Temple of Elemental Evil or the Tomb of Horrors back in high school because, oops random dice roll, three of you just died, oh and you two that got hit just got drained a few levels too, you're now just about out of hit points and here comes a wandering patrol of ogres down the hall. The actual D&D/AD&D game is VERY unforgiving when it comes to this stuff. Better hope your DM is very lenient with the rules. Even the old Basic boxed rules of D&D, I had people die fighting the carrion crawler in the sample dungeon they give you to start out with in the DM rulebook heh. I know they've dumbed the rules down in the later editions, but when BG came out, it was based on the older hardcore 2nd edition rules that were current at the time (and there was no internet or strategy guides to cheat and look up how to get past things before you did it). TSR's Marvel Super Heroes was even worse, and god help us if they ever make a game based on the old ICE Middle-Earth Role Playing (or Rolemaster)! That game was all about percentage rolls for EVERYTHING. You've got a chance of 1-100 for any roll you have to make. Wanna talk about unforgiving in just about all situations!

  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,926
    @Monotremata Oh dear god, ICE! I’d finally got out of therapy for that a year ago and you have to remind me of it.

    *crawls into corner and sucks thumb*

    BTW, whose thumb is this? Tastes like blueberries

  • MonotremataMonotremata Member Posts: 70
    tbone1 said:

    @Monotremata Oh dear god, ICE! I’d finally got out of therapy for that a year ago and you have to remind me of it.

    *crawls into corner and sucks thumb*

    BTW, whose thumb is this? Tastes like blueberries

    :D :D :D
    To be fair I really liked MERP, mainly because of the setting, and some of the sourcebooks that came out for it were awesome for a Tolkien geek. But the mechanics of the game were just WOW REALLY?? We didn't run it very many times just because of how long it took to do even a simple little trek into a cave or something to go beat up some trolls. TSRs Marvel Super Heroes was the same way. Loved playing in the Marvel Universe, but the game itself..

  • NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 241
    Play on legacy of Bhaal mode and give your character the innate ability to cast protection from normal missles through EEKeeper and NearInfinity. An ability learned from Gorion. Problem solved.

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