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semiOverhaul for IWD2 (UPDATE!)

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  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94

    ...which notably fixes the save DC's for various spells, including vanilla bugs like an erroneously low save DC for Symbol spells.

    @semiticgod, can you tell little more detail? Did you buff "Inflict Wounds" spells? Also i think that low Symbol DC in vanilla not bug. For priests with maximized wisdom Symbol spells was very effective in vanilla even without spell focuses. Symbols not good for wizard/sorcerer on HoF, but those classes has other good spells for crowd control or instant kills.

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Firecrow: I think the most important thing was changing Otiluke's Resilient Sphere and Great Shout to strike as level 6 and level 8 spells. Previously, I had set them to level 0 spells in order to bypass spell level immunities, but that had the unintended side effect of lowering their save DCs. I could restore their original DCs while still having them strike as level 0 spells, but I decided not to. The Knock spell is already a good option against golems with spell level immunity; it does 1d6 damage per level to constructs with no save.

    I could buff Inflict Wounds spells. They're pretty interesting and yet few people use them.

    The low Symbol DCs in vanilla is in fact a bug. They're set to level 7 while they all occupy level 8 spell slots. The reason for the bug is that the game was originally designed in a 2nd edition engine, so Symbol spells were all level 7, like in BG2 or IWD, instead of level 8. It's a relic of the development process.

    I think they're fairly balanced now. Symbol of Hopelessness now only lasts 5 rounds, and while that's very powerful, it is a level 8 spell. Other level 8 spells are about as powerful. The main reason Symbol of Hopelessness is so strong is because it forces a Will save, and enemy Will saves tend to be much lower than their Fortitude or Reflex saves.

    Wizards have limited access to Symbol scrolls and INT-boosting items are rare, but sorcerer Symbol spells are roughly the same power as clerics. You can get a character's INT, WIS, or CHA to 20 at level 1, and the Every God Ring is nerfed to +4 WIS while Eagle's Splendor (available much earlier) is nerfed to +3.

    What do you think about the prospects of introducing some high-level mage scrolls to Targos and other spell vendors?
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018

    I think the most important thing was changing Otiluke's Resilient Sphere and Great Shout to strike as level 6 and level 8 spells. Previously, I had set them to level 0 spells in order to bypass spell level immunities, but that had the unintended side effect of lowering their save DCs. I could restore their original DCs while still having them strike as level 0 spells, but I decided not to. The Knock spell is already a good option against golems with spell level immunity; it does 1d6 damage per level to constructs with no save.

    @semiticgod, I think Spell Resistance bypassing sounds logical for GS effect. How about to make this for Tremor (I mean knocking effect) too? Mobs can ignore knocking effect bcs Spell Resistance, but can't ignore damage, it looks very stange for me. This changes can warp balance to the player's side, but I think it can be corrected quite easily. For example you can do GS Bard exclusive and nerf Tremor damage a little. Or expand a Tremor effects for all in area of effect (ignoring party members for this spell looks strange for me too). Also I don't cheaked it yet, War Chant of Sith regenerates hp only in combat or any time?


    I could buff Inflict Wounds spells. They're pretty interesting and yet few people use them.

    Wall of Moonlight needs some changes too. This is very weak spell even for normal mode.


    The low Symbol DCs in vanilla is in fact a bug. They're set to level 7 while they all occupy level 8 spell slots. The reason for the bug is that the game was originally designed in a 2nd edition engine, so Symbol spells were all level 7, like in BG2 or IWD, instead of level 8. It's a relic of the development process.

    I never noticed that before. Thanks, very interesting moment. I thought that you meant lack of spell focuses imrovements for Symbols.


    What do you think about the prospects of introducing some high-level mage scrolls to Targos and other spell vendors?

    I think that will be good, at least for wiz/sorc HoF start balance. But I am not an arcan casters gameplay expert and don't sure in details.

    A few more remarks. You placed new True Seeing spell on fifth level for Cleric, but wiz/sorc has it on second level of spells. I think that some disbalance here. I'm used to that arcan casters has more options with different invisibility and illusions spells, clerics can better see the truth in a counterweight. I think True Seeing at least must has equal level for clerics and mages. And about illusion/invisibility spells. Can you change visual effects for Blur and Invisibility a somehow? Wide blurring figures of chars look ugly and strain eyes. Sometimes blurred figures compressed a little and this looks much better. Can you do this effect regular for Blur spell?




    Final Tactics fight with Twins, when all enemies uses different forms of invisibility, turns into a catching of a black cat in a dark room. Running through the "empty" throne room (with only red circles) makes me feel stupid. Partial transparency of invisible mobs not so realistic, but little more enjoyable.)
    Cone of Cold (and maybe Freezing Sphere) needs extra slowing effect. This is much more powerfull cryospells then Ice Blade and Frost Fingers, CoC and FS victims must be literally blown to the bone.
    Your new Desintegrate spell. The description now sounds very threatening, as for something against no mortal flesh can withstand. How about reflex save instead fortitude?
    Post edited by Firecrow on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Firecrow:

    1. I can make Tremor bypass SR, but I'm concerned about the balance. The current version of the spell should be non-party-friendly (I've nearly lost party members to it a couple times), but it has a major buff as well: the unconsciousness effect doesn't end when the victim is hit; that's 3 rounds of automatic hits on a level 9 spell that can be Spell Focused and uses a Reflex save which most critters will not resist. That's a lot more damage than the spell itself. Either way, I think I'll have both damage and the sleep effect bypass SR. Same goes for Great Shout, I think. I don't like the idea of restricting it to bards, though; bards won't get it until much later, and players might never see it if they don't do HoF mode.
    2. War Chant of Sith should regenerate at any time. The next release should be fixed so that it can't heal while paused using Lingering Song (if I'm going to introduce any new exploits, I want them to be a lot more interesting than that).
    3. I've already buffed Harm, Destruction, and Slay Living so that the save DC scales with caster level. In fact, the next update will include scaling DCs for Ghoul Touch, Black Blade of Disaster (which will now have an energy drain effect instead of Disintegrate), Ice Blade, and Snakebite. We've also got scaling damage for Ball Lightning and Spiritual Hammer and some important buffs to Phantom Blade and Star Metal Cudgel. Also, all magically created weapons that do not benefit from STR bonuses (as well as Mordenkainen's Sword) will now benefit from the Weapon Finesse feat. How much would the base Inflict Wounds spells need to be buffed? Maybe allow them to hit multiple times?
    4. True Seeing is level 6 for mages and sorcerers. I haven't updated mage scrolls yet, so the spell scroll for Disintegrate, for example, still says the spell is level 6 instead of 8. As for the reason mages get it at level 6 while clerics get it at level 5, I just based it on the BG2 True Seeing spell.
    5. I cannot change the visual effects of either Blur or Invisibility. There's no parameters I could fiddle with to make that happen; it's probably pretty hardcoded. Theoretically, you could make enemies cast other buffing spells instead of Improved Invisibility, but I don't want to screw around with enemy scripts when Tactics already does lots of that stuff. Fun fact: the distortion from Blur is based on movement rate, so critters with high movement rates will get more distorted.
    6. I can add Slow effects to Otiluke's Freezing Sphere, but I'm concerned about making Cone of Cold too strong vis-a-vis Sunfire. Cone of Cold already has the advantage of dealing zero damage to undead summons, which many players will prefer to living ones. What could we do to balance out Cone of Cold with Sunfire, if the former got a Slow effect?
    7. Disintegrate is pretty strong as it is considering it works with Spell Focus: Transmutation. With Wail of the Banshee now a Transmutation spell, SF: Trans is already a strong option. I could switch Disintegrate to a Reflex save, but it would make it distinctly more dangerous against a lot of enemies. Most enemies in IWD2 have strong Fortitude saves, mediocre Reflex saves, and poor Will saves due to the large numbers of enemy fighters. I found it extremely powerful as it was (though it really needs to be level 30 to kill stuff in HoF mode).

    While I'm here, I'll list a few things I plan on including in the next update:

    1. Good clerics will no longer have access to Animate Skeleton/Animate Zombie. Apparently the developers originally intended to have a powerful evil-exclusive Animate Dead spell to balance out the fact that evil clerics could not spontaneously cast healing spells. Since I've buffed high-level spontaneous casting (it no longer caps at Cure Critical Wounds; it scales all the way up to Mass Heal now), I've decided to restrict Animate to neutral and evil clerics. Mages and sorcerers are not affected.
    2. Zombie Lords and Festering Drowned Dead will no longer have instant death auras. Their auras will still have other negative effects; they just won't have the 20% chance of an unblockable death on a failed save.
    3. Good clerics will have Holy Smite. Neutral Clerics will have both Holy Smite and Unholy Blight, as well as Holy Word and Blasphemy both. Not that the evil ones are any good.
    4. The player will be able to SKIP THE ENTIRE ICE TEMPLE if they can deal enough damage to an "Ice Wall Fault," a little blue circle you can find at the northwest corner of the ice wall exterior (the map with Sherincal and the Remorhazes and stuff). The Ice Wall Fault has massive damage resistances, regeneration, gobs of HP, and it deals 1d8 cold damage whenever it's hit (1d20 in HoF mode!), but a sufficiently strong party should be able to bring it down. Once it takes enough damage, the wall vanishes and you can walk right to the next chapter!
    5. I'll be including a dialogue option that lets you skip all of the Severed Hand quests by talking to Ruinlord Argos Val at the throne room. If you have a Bluff of 30 or higher (or 20 or higher if you manage to charm him), you can get him to bring Isair and Madae right to you, starting the final fight early. This is new territory for me, so it might not get into the next release--I won't post it if I can't make it work.
    6. If I can figure out how, I'll make it so that the player can force their way into the Horde Fortress without sneaking through the tunnels (the big gate can be forced open).
    7. Bard songs will scale with level. Every beneficial spell except for the Song of Kaudies will upgrade at higher levels, and the Siren's Yearning will have a higher DC at higher levels. It will still impose cumulative Will save penalties, but it'll also be more dangerous to the party. It should still be very much worth it, though it's risky if you're dealing with a bunch of enemy mages or your party members have lousy Will saves. Remember that Barbarian Rage and a cleric's Spell Shield can always block stun.
    8. Monk fists benefit from Weapon Finesse. Monks with high DEX and WIS are no longer just for tanking; they'll also be excellent at stunning critters.
    9. A new component will remove critical hit immunity from all critters; you can land critical hits even on golems and undead. Disabled targets will still be immune to critical hits (that's hardcoded).
    10. If I haven't already mentioned it, Knock will deal 1d6 magic damage per level to constructs.
    11. Animate Zombie now has the vanilla icon for Disintegrate. It looks nicer than the green version I created, and it's easy to tell apart from Animate Skeleton anyway.
    12. Power Word Kill now uses a Will save instead of a Fortitude save, making it much more reliable against most enemies.
    13. If possible, I'll include an option that rigs all enemies to have saving throws dependent on their class (which will notably give most enemies better Reflex saves).

    Plus bugfixes, probably, and other stuff. I don't remember it all.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Done! Posted! Man, that was a lot of work. I've included everything except number 9, about critical hit immunities, and 13, about class-dependent saving throws. Also, Inflict Wounds spells now strike 3-5 times depending on caster level.

    Also, race ability score bonuses and penalties have been cut in half, from +2/-2 to +1/-1 and -4 to -2, while characters can now have ability scores from 2 to 19 instead of 3 to 18. This narrows the difference between ECL characters and normal ones when it comes to maximizing stats.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    By the way: the descriptions on character creation are still not updated because I haven't figured out how to edit them. You can still view all the class and kit and race descriptions from the Information screen, though, and they will be accurate.
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018


    Done! Posted! Man, that was a lot of work.

    @semiticgod, I can say only one. Simple "Amasing". ;)

    But I still have a few questions and comments.)


    2. War Chant of Sith should regenerate at any time. The next release should be fixed so that it can't heal while paused using Lingering Song (if I'm going to introduce any new exploits, I want them to be a lot more interesting than that).

    I never cheaked it, but Tactics must already fix Lingering Song bug. There will be no conflict here?


    Also, all magically created weapons that do not benefit from STR bonuses (as well as Mordenkainen's Sword) will now benefit from the Weapon Finesse feat.

    Monk fists benefit from Weapon Finesse. Monks with high DEX and WIS are no longer just for tanking; they'll also be excellent at stunning critters.

    "Custom DLL Fixes & Changes v1.5.0 by MindChild" must do something like this too. I worry about compatibility.


    7. I can add Slow effects to Otiluke's Freezing Sphere, but I'm concerned about making Cone of Cold too strong vis-a-vis Sunfire. Cone of Cold already has the advantage of dealing zero damage to undead summons, which many players will prefer to living ones. What could we do to balance out Cone of Cold with Sunfire, if the former got a Slow effect?

    I think will no big disbalance here. Becouse player can easily "add" slow effect to Sunfire with Entangle, Greese or Death Fog. Also Sunfire more quick than CoC, and with Tactics Aura Cleasing component can do much more damage in round. And many summons has strong fire resist too. For example Glabrezu Shades. Or Apocalyptic Boneguards.


    9. Disintegrate is pretty strong as it is considering it works with Spell Focus: Transmutation. With Wail of the Banshee now a Transmutation spell, SF: Trans is already a strong option. I could switch Disintegrate to a Reflex save, but it would make it distinctly more dangerous against a lot of enemies. Most enemies in IWD2 have strong Fortitude saves, mediocre Reflex saves, and poor Will saves due to the large numbers of enemy fighters. I found it extremely powerful as it was (though it really needs to be level 30 to kill stuff in HoF mode).

    Disintegrate reflex save just for more variety of gameplay, like your new PW:K with willsave instead fortsave. We have many quick killing spells for enemy "rogues" and "mages". Almost all of them easily dies from FoD, WoB, FtS. New Dis will have the same efficiency against "mages" and less against "rogue" type of mobs (according to my feelings many mobs in late chapters has good reflex save, on HoF Tactics my druid with 40 wiz and greater spell focus in Transmutation missed with Tremor often enough). You can kill or at least severaly wound almost any "fighter" or "priest" (do the Death Ward work against Dis now?) mob, but there are so many opponents of this type in almost any fight, that low reflex save "will not make the weather". I don't sure only about Guardian and Sherincal fights, they has low reflex saves and Sherincal can be easely separated from her minions.


    1. Good clerics will no longer have access to Animate Skeleton/Animate Zombie. Apparently the developers originally intended to have a powerful evil-exclusive Animate Dead spell to balance out the fact that evil clerics could not spontaneously cast healing spells. Since I've buffed high-level spontaneous casting (it no longer caps at Cure Critical Wounds; it scales all the way up to Mass Heal now), I've decided to restrict Animate to neutral and evil clerics. Mages and sorcerers are not affected.

    Spontaneous casting buffed for evil clerics too?
    And what about spontaneous casting for druid? Are you going to do this? "Custom DLL Fixes & Changes v1.5.0 by MindChild" provides such an option, allowing change memorized spells to Summon Nature Ally I-IX. I worry about potentional compatibility problems here too.


    The Ice Wall Fault has massive damage resistances, regeneration, gobs of HP, and it deals 1d8 cold damage whenever it's hit (1d20 in HoF mode!).

    If you later will have free time and desire, do such a modification for Guardian, please. Just for me.) I want to see Chahopek exuding deadly poison from every scratch, which kills all life around in seconds.


    11. A new component will remove critical hit immunity from all critters; you can land critical hits even on golems and undead. Disabled targets will still be immune to critical hits (that's hardcoded).

    I've included everything except number 9, about critical hit immunities.

    When you finish it, put it in a separate component, please. Becouse without critical hit immunites of strongest mobs gameplay becomes very simular to BG2. This is not bad, but for some people (at least for me) this difference between BG2 and IWD2 very important.


    15. Power Word Kill now uses a Will save instead of a Fortitude save, making it much more reliable against most enemies.

    I like this change very much. But I think that it more OP than Dis with reflex save.)


    Post edited by Firecrow on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Firecrow: This Lingering Song fix is better than the Tactics one. The Tactics one works by granting 5 seconds of immunity to the song after it applies its effects, which means you can't refresh the duration by re-activating it--you have to wait until the icon vanishes before you can re-activate it. In semiOverhaul, you can just re-activate the song and it will overwrite the previous song, refreshing the duration without any stacking effects. The only song that stacks is the Siren's Yearning and its Will penalties, but Lingering Song doesn't work on that song for whatever reason.

    There won't be any compatibility issues with Custom DLL regarding Weapon Finesse. SemiOverhaul doesn't actually mess with the Weapon Finesse feat at all--it just patches a bunch of items so that they're coded as small swords. All items that are coded as small swords automatically benefit from Weapon Finesse. I think Custom DLL does the same thing, because I recall seeing the same coding changes on certain magical weapons. They basically do the same thing; semiOverhaul just covers a broader range (I think) of items.

    I still think Disintegrate is a tad too strong if you switched it to a Reflex save. But it is a projectile, and an instant death effect with a Reflex save would be novel. I might change it.

    Spontaneous casting is extended for both good/neutral and evil clerics (the original game stopped at level 4):

    Level 5: Healing Circle / Slay Living
    Level 6: Heal / Harm
    Level 7: Greater Restoration / Destruction
    Level 8: Mass Heal / Fire Storm
    Level 9: Mass Heal / Gate

    As for spontaneous casting for druids: nope. It's my understanding that that mod actually prevents clerics from using spontaneous casting; giving it to druids means taking it away from clerics. It would be nice to have both, but I'm not willing to hand it over to druids; cleric spontaneous casting has more utility and more flavor. Besides, I'm guessing that that mod works with some hardcoded stuff that WeiDu and Near Infinity can't touch, so I'm not going to risk causing any hideous bugs by trying to build on that mod's work.

    I suppose I could give Chahopek a poisonous skin ability. It would certainly make him very dangerous against mage-heavy parties that rely on Mirror Image to survive, since Chahopek's other attacks will fail against Mirror Image. Poison and bleeding effects go right through Mirror Image (which is one of the reasons why Flaying is so deadly against enemy mages). Maybe I'll give it a high magnitude and a slow rate, like 5 or 10 damage per round, instead of the 2 damage per second that a lot of poison effects use.
    Firecrow said:



    11. A new component will remove critical hit immunity from all critters; you can land critical hits even on golems and undead. Disabled targets will still be immune to critical hits (that's hardcoded).

    I've included everything except number 9, about critical hit immunities.

    When you finish it, put it in a separate component, please. Becouse without critical hit immunites of strongest mobs gameplay becomes very simular to BG2. This is not bad, but for some people (at least for me) this difference between BG2 and IWD2 very important.
    It will be a separate component. But I don't know what you mean by the comparison to BG2. In BG2, immunity to critical hits is very common, but primarily reserved for bosses rather than undead and constructs (making Critical Strike famously underpowered compared to Greater Whirlwind Attack), whereas in IWD2 it's the other way around. Since luck doesn't impact critical hit rolls in BG2 and there are no 3x critical damage multiplier weapons in BG2, critical hits play very little role in BG2; they're just an occasional bit of extra damage. In IWD2, they play a major role in total damage output because there are so many ways to increase the chance of a critical hit, and certain weapons deal triple damage. An optimized character build can deal upwards of 70% more damage by focusing on maximizing critical hit chances.

    I'd say that the relative scarcity of critical hit immunities is what makes damage so different in IWD2, and making fewer critters immune to them would only make the game more different from BG2.
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018


    It will be a separate component. But I don't know what you mean by the comparison to BG2.

    @semiticgod, such a stupid mistype for me.*>_<* I mentioned BG2 several times above and it became some kind of habit. I meant IWD1 in my previous post. Sorry for my inattention.(



    Post edited by Firecrow on
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018

    @Firecrow:In BG2, immunity to critical hits is very common, but primarily reserved for bosses rather than undead and constructs (making Critical Strike famously underpowered compared to Greater Whirlwind Attack), whereas in IWD2 it's the other way around. Since luck doesn't impact critical hit rolls in BG2 and there are no 3x critical damage multiplier weapons in BG2, critical hits play very little role in BG2; they're just an occasional bit of extra damage. In IWD2, they play a major role in total damage output because there are so many ways to increase the chance of a critical hit, and certain weapons deal triple damage. An optimized character build can deal upwards of 70% more damage by focusing on maximizing critical hit chances.

    @semiticgod, your thoughts is actual for comparison IWD1/IWD2 too (exept warrior HLA). But my remark concerned not differences of critical hit mechanics itself, but rather the consequences of this difference. Actually even nonwarrior class can kill any mob in melee combat in IWD1 (in IWD:EE this even easy), and critical hit damage immunity of some bosses has only cosmetic value. In IWD2 mobs on average have twice as much hp in comparison with IWD1. Other mechanic of nature resistance and Damage Reduction with critical hit immunity makes some mobs extremely difficult to hurt in melee (and nonmagic range) combat in HoF IWD2, especially in Tactics. Only special builds can fight openly against squad of xvimian knights or throw down Madae in hand-to-hand single combat. I meant this in my post about optional critical hits immunities.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Firecrow: I want to make sure I understand your perspective better. Are you saying that removing critical hit immunity would be bad for game balance in IWD2 because non-warriors would be competitive against high-end enemies?
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018

    @Firecrow: I want to make sure I understand your perspective better. Are you saying that removing critical hit immunity would be bad for game balance in IWD2 because non-warriors would be competitive against high-end enemies?

    @semiticgod, I am not sure. Maybe removing critical hit immunity will make balance of classes only better. But sometimes disbalance makes the game more spicy.) "Warrior" and "nonwarrior" this is more IWD1 terms. I meant that you needs (in vanilla, without your class rebalancing) to construct special character with maximazed phisical damage in order to kill (in melee combat) few HoFed Slayer-Knights faster than they will kill him. Or for overcome Madae's damage resistances. Without critical hit immunity it will be much easier, no needs for special melee builds more. And you already buffed fighters so strongly. In short, I do not like potential simplification (in field of HoF melee combat) of party development after removing critical hit immunity.)
    Post edited by Firecrow on
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018

    4. True Seeing is level 6 for mages and sorcerers.

    @semiticgod, you forgot about specialist mages, they has True Seeing on second level as before.)




    Post edited by Firecrow on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Fixed it. The next update will also have revised mage school restrictions. They're based on 3E (I think) restrictions that made a lot more sense than the BG or IWD2 systems. They're now organized by pairs of opposition schools:

    Illusion / Divination (one conceals, the other reveals)
    Conjuration / Necromancy (one summons living critters, the other summons dead critters)
    Enchantment / Transmutation (one manipulates the mind, the other manipulates matter)
    Abjuration / Evocation (one protects, the other attacks)

    Every specialist mage will have a meaningful tradeoff, and no specialist mage is objectively superior to another. Unlike the vanilla game, each specialist only has one restricted school. Since Symbol and Power Word spells are domain spells of clerics of Oghma, Symbol and Power Word spells now belong to the Divination school, which keeps Illusionists from being overpowered.

    The next version will also have updated descriptions for all spells that have been changed by semiOverhaul.
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018
    @semiticgod, I have regular small bugreport.

    Description and spell name have been rewritten for another spell here.




    Just strange thing. Savethrow from Cure Light Wounds. Works only for one caster level of cleric.



    My drow druid make fortitude save against Produce Fire instead reflex from description. Actually old vanilla feature with two separated saves for druid blinding spells. But you did only one reflex save for blinding and damaging effects of Sunbeam, as described in vanilla discription.



    I think all "Light and Fire" blinding spells must have same save type and same mechanics. Actually I like vanilla variant of Sunbeam with separated saves more. Reflex for damage (mob has managed to run into the shade or cover itself with cloak and not strongly browned) and fortitude save for blinding (good retina, rapid and plentiful lacrimation, fast eyes accommodation). Also this is one of iconic features of druid, mass fortitude save based control with Sunbeam. It will be too much reflex based controls on 8-9 spell levels. Whirlwind, Tremor, Sunbeam. And with reflex save 8-level Sunbeam became almost like Tremor, but more efficient and handle, I think.

    Another old vanilla bug. GSoL don't give proper electricity resistance. Don't forget about it in final patch. And don't forget about lack of magic damage resistance in SoL description.



    I has bad feeling about this. With such duration stacking of SoLs becomes very op.



    Actually I noticed undocumented(?) Tactics SoL long duration only now. And only now I noticed stacking ability of SoLs (and GSoLs). With vanilla duration stacking of SoLs did not make much sense and I never tried it before.)
    Post edited by Firecrow on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Firecrow: I also noticed that Tactics' Shield of Lathander had a 20-round duration despite its description saying it lasted only 2 rounds. I gave it the same effect, but with a corrected description, since I thought the extended duration made the spell worthwhile--but no one would use it, of course, unless they knew how long it really lasted. I think I also removed poison resistance from the spell.

    It will no longer stack in the next version. Not because I want to close exploits per se (I've said many times that exploits can be very fun, and closing them can make the game less interesting), but because I want to discourage lengthy pre-buffing rituals. In fact, Elemental Barrier will be an area-effect spell like Mage/Ghost/Spirit Armor to discourage extra rounds pre-buffing (though it only grants 10/- resistance to allies besides the caster and is now a level 8 spell).

    I've fixed the Impervious Sanctity of Mind bug. These bugs pop up because the TP2 and TRA files that install the mod are so large and it's so easy to let a typo slip in when the difference between the Destruction spell and Impervious Sanctity of mind is a single character: SPWI716.spl and SPWI717.spl.

    The code behind this mod currently has over 11,000 lines across almost 400 pages. I've had to deal with those little typos over and over again.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Firecrow: By the way, do you have any suggestions for item rebalances? I've never found items to be quite as interesting as spells, so I haven't given them much thought.
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94

    @Firecrow: By the way, do you have any suggestions for item rebalances? I've never found items to be quite as interesting as spells, so I haven't given them much thought.

    Almost didn't look at items yet. Becouse spells more interesting for me too.)
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018

    @Firecrow: By the way, do you have any suggestions for item rebalances? I've never found items to be quite as interesting as spells, so I haven't given them much thought.

    @semiticgod, little item bug report.
    Missed discription.




    Old vanilla bug, Xvimian Fang of Dispair cast stun with will save instead Emotion: Despair from discription.




    Old vanilla feature. This arbalet actually a bow with crossbow ammunition. It's used char number of attacks instead crossbow one attack. Rapid Shot feat works too. I think this special crossbow is interesting feature and it must be left in game. But discription must be corrected somehow.



    Barkskin spell from HoFed Book of Leaves don't works as in vanilla.


    Post edited by Firecrow on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    edited May 2018
    @Firecrow: I can fix the bow. As for the Book of Leaves, you should be able to switch between Barkskin and Shambler by right-clicking its quick slot from the game screen. As for the Xvimian Fang of Despair, the bug isn't what you think it is. The description says it casts Emotion: Despair, but the actual effect is a Hopelessness effect, which appears identical to stun in-game (they're different opcodes that do the same thing). Since it's the Xvimian Fang of Despair, ostensibly the effect should mimic the Emotion: Despair spell.

    I'm mulling the possibilities for replacing all on-hit effects on weapons with on-hit spells that scale with level. It would take a lot of work, but it would solve the problem of low weapon DCs in HoF mode.
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018
    Firecrow said:


    I think all "Light and Fire" blinding spells must have same save type and same mechanics. Actually I like vanilla variant of Sunbeam with separated saves more. Reflex for damage (mob has managed to run into the shade or cover itself with cloak and not strongly browned) and fortitude save for blinding (good retina, rapid and plentiful lacrimation, fast eyes accommodation). Also this is one of iconic features of druid, mass fortitude save based control with Sunbeam. It will be too much reflex based controls on 8-9 spell levels. Whirlwind, Tremor, Sunbeam. And with reflex save 8-level Sunbeam became almost like Tremor, but more efficient and handle, I think.

    @semiticgod, I thought about druid crowd control system today, in logic of roleplaing and game balance. And I think that many of spells must be changed or rechanged.

    I think Sol's Searing Orb must have reflex save agains blinding instead fortitude. This is projectile type spell, mob can have time to protect his eyes from damage with his hand. For S'sSO damage reflex and fortitude save both has some sense. Reflex for simpleness (only one save for both damage and blinding effects), fortitude for "self-guided" Orb, which impossibly to avoid. For Sunscorch reflex save can be good too. Accordingly to ingame animation, Sunscorch quick, but not instantaneous flash. Mob can try to protect his eyes, like for S'sSO. Also no needs in special options for drow and duergars for Sunscorch. Becouse in Tactics they has a fortitude save against Sunscorch, this can cause some confusion with/without some Tactics components for sOh'ed spells description.



    Unlike S'sSO and Sunscorch Sumbeam must have fortitude save against blinding. Becouse this is continual light. This light not so intensive (round damage less than Sunscoarch, exept for undeads which hurts greatly becouse special spectrum of Sunbeam light), but this light floods everything around. Very difficult to avoid from this blinding light. Mob must keep his eyes closed for a long time (all the same he kinda blinded), or try to overcome blinding effect by tears, blinking, etc. I think this must be fortitude based. For example, warrior used to fight with eyes bathed in sweat and blood, he did it much easily then bard or rogue. And I think that for your new Tremor fortitude based save better too. You made damage with no save for it. So this is strike, which is impossible to avoid. Only strong head and thick chest can withstand against this breathtaking knockout blow.

    I tested Whirlwind a little and think that with current probability of instant killing attempt spell overpowered. Also I can't think of what must do this attempt. Whirlwind just a wind, carrying random trash (slashing and bladgeoning damage). It can swirl mob and spin it head (stun effect, maybe fortitude based, but only fortitude based contols on high spells levels no good), but instant death with spell resistance cheak confused me. Blinding effect for Whirlwind would be very logical (the dust rose up and powdered eyes), but so many blinding spells for druid not good too. Also I don't like that Whirlwind don't affect caster, becouse: "...the whirlwind reaches its destination, the caster WILL LOSE CONTROL and the whirlwind will fly around randomly, harming friend and foe alike"(C). I think for balance you must nerf potential death effect and remove caster immunity. Prolonged stun, increased damage already good for me, I successfully used even vanilla variant and it did not seem weak to me. But if you want to save current variant of Whirlwind just like very powerful and fun spell, you must rename it in something more theurgical. Greater Dust Devil Summoning, or Quietus Wind for example.
    Post edited by Firecrow on
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018

    @Firecrow: As for the Xvimian Fang of Despair, the bug isn't what you think it is. The description says it casts Emotion: Despair, but the actual effect is a Hopelessness effect, which appears identical to stun in-game (they're different opcodes that do the same thing). Since it's the Xvimian Fang of Despair, ostensibly the effect should mimic the Emotion: Despair spell.

    @semiticgod, oh, I see.)

    Post edited by Firecrow on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Firecrow: I'll change those Fortitude and Reflex saves to your suggestions. They make sense to me.

    I'll remove the instant kill effect from Whirlwind. It's not very user-friendly, anyway; party members aren't immune. I've also fixed the save DC; it was 2 lower than it was supposed to be (this is another spell level bug from vanilla; the devs originally planned on making Whirlwind level 6). Whirlwind and Tremor both bypass spell resistance and spell level immunities (they should hurt golems in the next update) and the caster will be immune to both, at least initially (if the Whirlwind spins back to the caster after a few seconds, they should get hit). I figure that Spell Focus: Transmutation will already make them quite powerful. What do you think about rigging Whirlwind to knock stuff unconsciousness instead of stunning, like Tremor does? That would make it work against undead.

    The new version will have three new skips:

    Faster Targos: This will let you skip right to the fight with Caballus on your first talk with Shawford Crale. All you have to do is say "Did you hear that?" shortly into your first discussion.

    Faster Black Raven Monastery: This will let you force the door in the monastery basement, allowing you to progress to the next area without either going through the monk trials or killing all the monks.

    Faster Underdark: This will let you force the door to the mind flayer lair, bypassing the Viciscamera questline.

    I think that will be the last of the skips; there's nothing left to cut out. I'm quite pleased with how they've turned out--I can now skip over every part of IWD2 I don't find interesting. It's very non-invasive, too; I only needed to tweak a few tiny things in a few maps to make the skips possible.
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018

    @Firecrow: As for the Book of Leaves, you should be able to switch between Barkskin and Shambler by right-clicking its quick slot from the game screen.

    @semiticgod, ofc I tried this and this don't work. Cheak it please.


    I can fix the bow.

    No need to fix Hagnen's Folly (Folly of Hagnen Odestone), I like this crossbows.) Just a little discription change, something like "Special: Quickloading: The user can use his full attack rate".
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018

    I'll change those Fortitude and Reflex saves to
    Whirlwind and Tremor both bypass spell resistance and spell level immunities (they should hurt golems in the next update) and the caster will be immune to both, at least initially (if the Whirlwind spins back to the caster after a few seconds, they should get hit). I figure that Spell Focus: Transmutation will already make them quite powerful. What do you think about rigging Whirlwind to knock stuff unconsciousness instead of stunning, like Tremor does? That would make it work against undead.

    Complete Spell Resistance ignoring for both Whirlwind and Tremor good. I think Tremor damage must affect Golems and Elementals (exept Air maybe). Nevertheless I think Golems and Elementals must be immune to stun and knock unconscious FTGJ, but this only my personal opinion. Whirlwind stun still must'nt affect huge mobs I think, only deal damage (wind can't lift up and twirl a heavy Frost Giant, only scratch and beat him with flying debris). I do not mind against knock instead of stun for Whirlwind to work against undeads. This has't big difference even for solo druid becouse Sunbeam and Tremor. And by the way, I think it would be logical to unificate damage types of Sunbeam, fire for both living and undeads mobs. Magic energy damage for both types looks even better, but I fear Six and Apocalyptic Boneguards will become too easy opponents.
    Post edited by Firecrow on
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018
    @semiticgod, find few more bugs.

    Actually this not work.




    Something strange with characters level. You changed XP progression table? Charecters can't obtain highest levels, becouse cap on 528000 exp.





    Few more spell remarks.

    Did you knowingly left stacking spell resistance and saving throw bonuses from repeating Holy Aura casts? With your nerfs this is not so op as in vanilla, but stacking HAs from one cleric not good for me. To be precise, staking Auras granted by one god. Or from different gods with opposite aligment.)

    About new Horrid Wilting. You made it party friendly, but this makes HW more powerful and efficient than Meteor Swarm. I think better to remove spell resistance ignoring of HW in a counterweight. Selective evaporation of scattered targets, separated from fighting crowd, needs constant magic control, that can be scrambled by spell resistance. Like for Wail of the Banshee.

    I think that Acid Fog must be changed a little. Grease and Entangle has almost same slowing effect without save, slowing from AF not really necessary. And for cloud of caustic vapors slowing looks strange. I can not think of what slows down mobs. Affected mobs can't see? But blinding spells don't cause slow effect. I think Acid Fog must cause some "breath based" debuff, like Cloud of Pestilence or Suffocate. Simple cumulative str/dex penalty from lung injury may be good. More slow then CoP (-1 in round), but with no save. Or direct BAB cumulative debuff. Blinding very logical too (the acid literally eats up the eyes), but we already have many different blinding spells. Only pure damage for undeads, bcs most of it has't lungs and eyes.
    Post edited by Firecrow on
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018
    Firecrow said:


    I think Sol's Searing Orb must have reflex save agains blinding instead fortitude. This is projectile type spell, mob can have time to protect his eyes from damage with his hand. For S'sSO damage reflex and fortitude save both has some sense. Reflex for simpleness (only one save for both damage and blinding effects), fortitude for "self-guided" Orb, which impossibly to avoid.

    At last about Otiluke's Freezing Sphere and Ice Lance. I think S'sSO and O'sFS must have many common properties. Right now its both ignore spell resistance, but S'sSO can't be avoided, O'sFS can. This is not very right for me. I think O'sFS must be self-guided projectile with partial save for damage and slow, or S'sSO must be "nonmagical" incendiary-lighting bomb with reflex save for negate both effects.

    Or you can swap O'sFS and Ice Lance. This is best variant by my sight. Right now IL has automatic hit like very quick M'sAA (and can't bypass spell resistance). But Flame Arrow, Lance of Diruption, Lighting Bolt have reflex save and its projectiles much more quick then LA projectile. Self-guided Freezing Sphere with automatic hit and potential slow effect (from freeze) looks like good alternative choise for FA, LD, LB. And Otiluke's Ice Lance, which can impale unlucky mob and freeze him to the backbone (30d6 damage, stun) regardless spell resistance. Or completely miss bcs successful saving throw.
    Post edited by Firecrow on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Firecrow: Resurrection has never fit the spell description. I'll just remove the stuff that never got implemented (IWD2 doesn't even have a proper level drain opcode; energy drain is just a combination of HP, AB, and damage penalties).

    I've noticed the level 30 XP bug. See, I extended the XP tables to level 50 even though the game is hard-capped at level 30 or 40 depending on if you've got the right mod for the latter. Apparently, I copied my tables from the level 40 mod, which also slowed down level progression. The end result? The maximum XP value is only enough to hit level 29, when it's supposed to be enough for level 33 (30 for deep gnomes). I'll just re-extend the tables with a different base table so it won't affect people without the level 40 mod.

    I didn't know Holy Aura ever stacked. I'll prevent it from stacking; it makes other SR buffs kind of meaningless since two castings mean 50 SR.

    Looking at Horrid Wilting, it shouldn't bypass spell resistance. Could you double-check and make sure it does? If so, I'll remove it.

    I don't know why Acid Fog ever imposed a 50% movement penalty. It dates back to IWD, when the Death Fog spell also cut movement rate in half. Though the IWD spell was overpowered due to its sheer damage (4 on round 1, 8 on round 2, 12 on round 3, and then 16 for the next 12 rounds with no save!) rather than the movement rate penalty.

    Acid Fog always did seem redundant with Acid Storm. I'll probably move one of them to a different level and give it some different effects.

    Icelance has always bypassed spell resistance, or at least the Tactics or LoS-modified version has. Though I think that only applies to the cold damage. Either way, it shouldn't bypass SR in semiOverhaul; I removed that.

    Otiluke's Freezing Sphere can no longer be dodged completely. I always thought that was incredibly lame; Chain Lightning in the vanilla game had no such disadvantage and also deal extra damage, using a damage type that fewer critters were resistant to. It wasn't remotely worth a level 6 spell slot. That's why I made the Reflex save only cut damage in half. Now it slows the target for 1 round per level, which should make it a pretty excellent disabler as well.

    I think I'll bump up Lightning Bolt to level 4 and Lance of Disruption up to level 5, with some buffs for the latter two. Lightning Bolt already does 1d8 damage instead of 1d6 and comes with a -4 save penalty, so it kind of makes Flame Arrow useless until you reach really high levels or are fighting critters with high SR (Flame Arrow bypasses spell resistance). I might also move Otiluke's Freezing Sphere down to level 5 or even level 4. I might have to bump another level 5 spell up or down to make room.

    Icelance might also warrant a higher spell level. After all, the 5d6 cold damage isn't the real draw; it's the 3 rounds of stun that basically mean death for anything that fails its Fortitude save.
  • FirecrowFirecrow Member Posts: 94
    edited May 2018


    Looking at Horrid Wilting, it shouldn't bypass spell resistance. Could you double-check and make sure it does? If so, I'll remove it.




    @semiticgod, but I used Bracers of Icelandic Pearl for this cheak.


    Otiluke's Freezing Sphere can no longer be dodged completely. I always thought that was incredibly lame; Chain Lightning in the vanilla game had no such disadvantage and also deal extra damage, using a damage type that fewer critters were resistant to. It wasn't remotely worth a level 6 spell slot. That's why I made the Reflex save only cut damage in half. Now it slows the target for 1 round per level, which should make it a pretty excellent disabler as well.

    Actually I don't cheaked it ingame, I only read the description.



    Icelance has always bypassed spell resistance, or at least the Tactics or LoS-modified version has. Though I think that only applies to the cold damage. Either way, it shouldn't bypass SR in semiOverhaul; I removed that.

    I have some thoughts about spells, which can/can't bypass spell resistance. Vanilla game has many strangenesses here, like "Cone of Cold and Snilloc's Snowball Swarm can bypass spell resistance, but Ice Storm can't". Or Holy Smite (and Unholy Blight) can, Holy Word (Blasphemy) can't.
    But I am not ready to voice them. I want to experiment with sOh more before, not all my old notes can be actual now.

    Final for today.)
    No big deal of corse, just a little niggling. Clerics and druids can somehow imitate certain arcane spells with their divine and nature methods, same for the mages, which can adapt some clerics and druids spells for arcane spell system. But I think "copyrighted" arcane spells must not be in cleric/druid spell list. Also SoL and GSoL must be only for Morninglords. At least only for priests of good gods. I mean only "copyright" terms here, no problem with analogic spells without mentioning Lathander for any priest.



    Post edited by Firecrow on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Firecrow: Otiluke's Freezing Sphere cannot be avoided. I think you missed part of my previous post; OFS now offers a save for half damage instead of a save for no damage. Icelance doesn't bypass SR at all in semiOverhaul.

    I don't plan on swapping OFS and Icelance. OFS would be very similar to Flame Arrow, while Icelance would be less unique because its role as a stunning spell with a Fortitude save would be partially redundant with Great Shout. I might change their levels, but Icelance isn't strong enough for level 6, and OFS at level 3 would just be a Flame Arrow that does cold damage.

    I like the Fortitude save on Icelance. It keeps the spell balanced against normal mobs, who tend to have high Fortitude saves. I've found the spell to be very strong with a Fortitude save; it would be overpowered with a Reflex save.

    I'm afraid I can't edit projectiles with Near Infinity to change their speeds. It's not even possible to view them.
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