May 25 Livestream Recap

JuliusBorisov

Greetings!

Enjoy the recap of today's stream.

http://blog.beamdog.com/2018/05/may-25-livestream-recap.html

ThacoBell

This was a pretty heavy NWN centered update. You know what would add more variety? An announcement for the SoulTaker questline in BG2EE!

Contemplative_Hamster

ThacoBell said:

This was a pretty heavy NWN centered update. You know what would add more variety? An announcement for the SoulTaker questline in BG2EE!

I stand by my previous statement:

Contemplative_Hamster said:

@JuliusBorisov , have a Noober-esque character named Thaco Bell appear in BGIIee and close the Soultaker plothole.

Cahir

@ThacoBell jusy out of curiosity, why are you focusinh on Soultaker plot above all other things? Beamdog could expand BG2EE with other stuff too?

ThacoBell

@Cahir They absolutely could, but SoulTaker stands out because it is a gigantic orphaned plot thread that Beamdog created. So they should finish it. You don't drop something midway through the story that not only affets a major npc, but alos the player, an event that ties directly to charname being forced out of BG, and leads directly in BG2, without resolving it. Its bad form.

*EDIT*
Oh and to add to this. It makes it sting more knowing that a quest WAS planned for BG2 to resolve this, before Trent Oster changed his mind. I suspect it had to do with SoD's initial reception.

MiraStastny

SoD didn't sell all that well, right? (Sure, the PR nightmare probably contributed to that) So maybe that's the reason?

ThacoBell

I don't think it sold badly, so much as the bad pr was the biggest cause. As time goes on, SoD is going to be remembered FAR more fondly. Every single player (Completely new to the series. Started with BG1 EE, the into SoD, then BG2) that I've seen weigh in on it say its really good and fits in well with the series. Its mostly the combination of people who never played the game, and looking for an excuse to complain about "political agenda" and old guard players who hated it simply because it was something new that carried the BG name. It was such a firestorm that any actual constructive criticism was buried.

Arunsun

"We’re constantly exploring different concepts for our future projects. We like the idea of the The Black Pits III, but if we do it, most likely it wouldn’t be in the Infinity Engine. According to Phil, there’s no reason why Baeloth the Entertainer can’t show up in 3E or 5E."

Looking forwards to hearing more of that. I absolutely love Baeloth and would very much like to see more of him in the future. Really I think there hasn't been a playthrough in a couple of years in which I haven't picked Baeloth.

BelegCuthalion

Mirak said:

SoD didn't sell all that well, right?

Is this in fact true?
I have no numbers, but measuring it to a new game does not fit, it's only bought by people who have and liked bg1ee and bg2ee per concept and known to beamdog in the beginning (I guess no sane buyer just bought and played sod only?).
So as long as it developed on the long run as expected, it was a success (and my assumption is that beamdog would be out of business if it was a really low performer).

Raduziel

@JuliusBorisov any forecast for the SoD update? As I said before, the fact that BGEE updated without SoD is giving me a bad time when it comes to modding.

Thanks.

MiraStastny

BelegCuthalion said:

Mirak said:

SoD didn't sell all that well, right?

Is this in fact true?
I have no numbers, but measuring it to a new game does not fit, it's only bought by people who have and liked bg1ee and bg2ee per concept and known to beamdog in the beginning (I guess no sane buyer just bought and played sod only?).
So as long as it developed on the long run as expected, it was a success (and my assumption is that beamdog would be out of business if it was a really low performer).

I have no idea, but I've seen rumors and speculations that SoD didn't sell as well as Beamdog hoped. And there's no follow-up to SoD. If SoD was a massive hit, I think they would try do another BG expansion fairly soon and that didn't happen.

Arunsun

Mirak said:

BelegCuthalion said:

Mirak said:

SoD didn't sell all that well, right?

Is this in fact true?
I have no numbers, but measuring it to a new game does not fit, it's only bought by people who have and liked bg1ee and bg2ee per concept and known to beamdog in the beginning (I guess no sane buyer just bought and played sod only?).
So as long as it developed on the long run as expected, it was a success (and my assumption is that beamdog would be out of business if it was a really low performer).

I have no idea, but I've seen rumors and speculations that SoD didn't sell as well as Beamdog hoped. And there's no follow-up to SoD. If SoD was a massive hit, I think they would try do another BG expansion fairly soon and that didn't happen.

Well they're hiring more and more people so I guess things are going in the right direction for them. But no matter the success SoD had, making yet another BG expansion would probably not be a good idea. They've proven themselves capable of making good games that are more than just minor expansions, as SoD was, but the Bhaalspawn saga is over and done. IMHO it would be a bad move to force yet another Bhaalspawn expansion. SoD was legit in that there always was this hole between BG1 and BG2, but there is no other such void to be filled in the saga. And when you force-write a sequel onto a series that is fine as it is, it results in SW episode 7, or AC: Unity, or Son of the Mask, or Dragon Ball GT, or countless others which I must forget.

I quote Qyburn from GoT on this: "Sometimes, before we can usher in the new, the old must be put to rest." Well, it's time to celebrate the great farewell that Beamdog made to the Bhaalspawn saga, with the EEs and then SoD, and wait for their next project.

Besides it is high time Beamdog flew of its own wings. They've proven competent enough to make their own games, with their own stories entirely, if they keep making EEs the "we can only improve 20yo games" reputation will definitely stick to their skin, and it's the last thing they want !

Aedan

Arunsun said:

SoD was legit in that there always was this hole between BG1 and BG2, but there is no other such void to be filled in the saga.

Actually, there is such hole. It's called Throne of Bhaal

ThacoBell

Aedan said:

Arunsun said:

SoD was legit in that there always was this hole between BG1 and BG2, but there is no other such void to be filled in the saga.

Actually, there is such hole. It's called Throne of Bhaal

How so?

Neverwhere

ThacoBell said:

Aedan said:

Arunsun said:

SoD was legit in that there always was this hole between BG1 and BG2, but there is no other such void to be filled in the saga.

Actually, there is such hole. It's called Throne of Bhaal

How so?

Throne of Bhaal had pacing problems. Plot-wise, it always felt like it was supposed to be Baldur's Gate III instead of an expansion to the second game, so while it was still phenomenal, there were parts of it that never felt quite as fleshed-out as it should have.

There's a reason why one of the most popular mods in the franchise is called Baldur's Gate Trilogy when there were only two games. A lot of players felt that Throne of Bhaal should have been a full-blown sequel instead of an expansion.

MiraStastny

@Arunsun

The Soul Taker expansion was originaly planned for BG2, so even if your reasoning makes somewhat sense, I'm not sure that's the real reason why Beamdog didn't make it.

Again, Beamdog purposefully created a cliffhanger in SoD with clearly obvious plan to do another expansion for BG2.

If SoD was a smashing hit, I don't believe for a second they would have just said: Oh no, we're too good to make another BG DLC now.

And yeah, Beamdog sure is hiring, but at the same time quality vet like creative director David Gaider left without producing a single title.

zenblack

Jesus, I never thought it would take over a year of saying they were going to patch BG1 and BG2 for them to attempt it. Just disgusting.

ThacoBell

zenblack said:

Jesus, I never thought it would take over a year of saying they were going to patch BG1 and BG2 for them to attempt it. Just disgusting.

The games have been patched half a dozen times. What are you smoking?

@Neverwhere The team was more rushed than they would have liked, but ToB was planned as an expansion from the beginning. BG3 was something different. (At least, according to an interview with David Gaider about Ascension that I read years ago.)