In SoA, which enemies need +4 or better to hit?

Kneller

I know some of the Liches fall into this category, but I can't recall other enemies that can't be hit with +3 or less. Are there any?

ThacoBell

Only Kangaxx I belive. The Balor or the Demon Lord also require high enchantment levels, but I don't know if their that high.

Kneller

That's what I was thinking. It's been forever since my last run, but I recall +4 or better not really happening until ToB.

Orim_Samite_Healer

The "Lesser" Demon Lord in BG2 requires +5 but he's technically optional.

Kneller

Where is the Demon Lord?

Orim_Samite_Healer

At the very end of Ust Natha, in the Underdark.

Borek

Demogorgon and the Demi-Lich in WK require +4, but they are not required for SoA, some of the vampires need +3's i think, or maybe just +2's. Balor's/Pit Fiends need +3's as do Greater Mummies, but i can't think of anything else in SoA that needs +4.

borntodie

Orim_Samite_Healer said:

The "Lesser" Demon Lord in BG2 requires +5 but he's technically optional.

Yeah, the demon that wants the dragon eggs. I never attacked him, fighting him is definitely optional.

Kangax in demi-lich form can be destroyed with the mace of disruption, so you do not really need a +5 weapon for him, either. For SoA you will have no problems at all with +3 weapons. Even in ToB they are good enough.

sarevok57

actually i think demogorgon only needs +3 weapons to hit him

plus the werewolf woman in the umar hills in werewolf form requires +5 weapons to hit

if im not mistaken, this is a thread somewhere on this forum that has already discussed all the baddies that require more than +3 weapons to hit, somewhere around here

Kneller

I don't remember the werewolf woman. How are you supposed to take her out in SoA? Are there any +5 weapons (particularly for a cleric)? The only thing I can think of is the sling of everard.

Borek

Kneller said:

I don't remember the werewolf woman. How are you supposed to take her out in SoA? Are there any +5 weapons (particularly for a cleric)? The only thing I can think of is the sling of everard.

The Werewolf woman definitely doesn't need +5's, i kill her all the time, at worst she *may* require +3's. Demogorgon i am pretty sure +3's don't cut it, last time out i had to switch in SOTM/ram coz i was only using +3's (katana's) and they didn't damage him.

JuliusBorisov

sarevok57 said:

actually i think demogorgon only needs +3 weapons to hit him

plus the werewolf woman in the umar hills in werewolf form requires +5 weapons to hit

if im not mistaken, this is a thread somewhere on this forum that has already discussed all the baddies that require more than +3 weapons to hit, somewhere around here

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/68637/elemental-princes-2-weapon

Orim_Samite_Healer

Kneller said:

Are there any +5 weapons (particularly for a cleric)? The only thing I can think of is the sling of everard.

If memory serves, the upgraded Mace of Disruption +2 can be crafted during chapter 3 (Mace + Illithium) and hits as a +5. As you mentioned, Sling of Everard +5 counts as such. I think that's all for the early +5 weapons for clerics. Otherwise there is ever-monstrous Crom Faeyr hammer but it can only be crafted much later in Shadows of Amn.

Kneller

I don't think I'll get the mace upgraded. I'm RPing this character as good. But yeah, I guess the sling is my go to. I was originally going to go with the sling of seeking (for the strength benefit). I know you can cheese and use the sling of everard with magical bullets for the strength benefit, but that seems kind of cheaty.

Although, I just double checked 2e rules, and apparently all slings should get the strength bonus to damage. So I guess the SoE it is...

Skatan

MMM's have usually been my go-to weapon of choice for those enemies which need high level enchantment if I don't have it. Often only one or two chars have a decent weapon early game, but MMM's are only level 3 mage spells. Elemental damage or magic damage can work as well sometimes, ie AoE or DD spells from book or wand. I am very fond of fire wand's scorcher for the higher damage than the mage book spell and no save roll for at least half the damage. I use that a lot in all games.

I seem to recall MMMs being nerfed to +3 or something, but not sure if that's an official patch or a mod. Haven't played BG2 in quite some time now since I haven't got past Sarevok for a long time (restartitis and other games taking over).

Borek

Just checked, Demogorgon is flagged as immune to normal, +1 and +2, so +3 or better should work on him. Anath has no specific flags at all regarding immunities, just has a ring that simulates the GWW regeneration. It is possible she turns into a standard GWW, however the scripting doesn't seem to indicate she takes on the properties and since she's worth 2200 XP and GWW's are worth 15000 XP i'm gonna stick with a firm no on that. AFAIK she is basically a GWW that has worse stats and no notable immunities. Even if she does count as a full GWW then +3 weapons will work fine, it's only BG1 where they went a bit nuts with the named WW's and the whole Loup Garou thang.

ThacoBell

@Kneller There is also the Warblade +4, I think there is a staff +4 as well. And let's not forget Carsomyr.

I'm curious, why does you rping a good charname prevent you from upgrading the Mace of Disruption?

Jaheiras_Witness

Prob cause you give the illithium to Sir Sarles

sarevok57

Jaheiras_Witness said:

Prob cause you give the illithium to Sir Sarles

that is quite unfortunate because the upgraded mace of disruption is a brutally awesome weapon that i take with me all the way to the end of ToB

Kneller

I've upgraded it before with more morally ambiguous characters, and yeah, it's great. However, this character has stronger moral center. However, he is also a semi-solo gnome stalker/cleric (multi), so he'll level fast enough for Turn Undead to be his mace of disruption.

SirBatince

in case of doubt, use knee capper

borntodie

Kneller said:

I've upgraded it before with more morally ambiguous characters,

This gave me a good laugh. Whenever I hear Sir Sarles say "You have cheated my Art!", I know I did the right thing.

ThacoBell

Jaheiras_Witness said:

Prob cause you give the illithium to Sir Sarles

But what does that have to do with being good? Its just a comission. Sarles is an entitled madonna with unreasonable demands. Besides, the good cleric stronghold prefers the illithium alloy to the Sarles sculpture. Get the alloy for the temple, and use the illitium to upgrade the mace. There is nothing evil or even morally grey about it.

sarevok57

ThacoBell said:

Jaheiras_Witness said:

Prob cause you give the illithium to Sir Sarles

But what does that have to do with being good? Its just a comission. Sarles is an entitled madonna with unreasonable demands. Besides, the good cleric stronghold prefers the illithium alloy to the Sarles sculpture. Get the alloy for the temple, and use the illitium to upgrade the mace. There is nothing evil or even morally grey about it.

even the neutral cleric dude like the illithium alloy as well, absolutely no injustice to your character for making the upgraded mace

Borek

You have to ask for the fake illithium ore to be made, this is a clearly thought out, premeditated fraud :P

Jaheiras_Witness

Exactly. It is at the very least a chaotic/deceptive act. A Paladin for instance in P&P would temporarily fall and have to atone for this kind of act. For LG, NG and possibly LN characters it is hard to justify trying to con Sir Sarles.

Personally I don’t give two hoots what people do but that’s why some roleplayed characters would not have illithium to upgrade the mace. It also requires metagame knowledge: at the time of acquiring illithium you should have no clue that you can use it to upgrade the mace, and that the illithium therefore has no other use than to give to Sarles. It’s very rare (and therefore quite cool design) to use a quest item for a totally unrelated purpose rather than the quest itself.

ThacoBell

Borek said:

You have to ask for the fake illithium ore to be made, this is a clearly thought out, premeditated fraud :P

No, not really. The merchant frames it as 200lbs of illithium being impossible to get on short notice. You pay enough money to give several peasents a comfortable life for her to connect you to her source. There is no guarantee of illithium there. You can very reasonably pick both options for the greatest chance of success. Also of note YOU CAN BE UP FRONT WITH SARLES AND TELL HIM YOU GOT AN ALLOY TO WORK WITH. Its more than the other churches could offer, is more than fair considering his demands and treatment of you, and he not only turns you down, but refuses to work for anyone else in Athkatla as a result. Nothing chaotic, or deceptive. There is zero way this can be fraud if you tell him, "Hey, merchant says that much illithium is impossible, they tell me this alloy works just as well."

UnderstandMouseMagic

If you are going to get this picky about "morals", then you wouldn't have anything to do with the deugar to get the real illithium.
You would dob him in to the authorities, seeing as he's evil and stuff.
And employed a child killer...

UnderstandMouseMagic

Jaheiras_Witness said:

Exactly. It is at the very least a chaotic/deceptive act. A Paladin for instance in P&P would temporarily fall and have to atone for this kind of act. For LG, NG and possibly LN characters it is hard to justify trying to con Sir Sarles.

Personally I don’t give two hoots what people do but that’s why some roleplayed characters would not have illithium to upgrade the mace. It also requires metagame knowledge: at the time of acquiring illithium you should have no clue that you can use it to upgrade the mace, and that the illithium therefore has no other use than to give to Sarles. It’s very rare (and therefore quite cool design) to use a quest item for a totally unrelated purpose rather than the quest itself.

If you have the mace in your possesion and ask Cromwell whether there is anything in your pack he can upgrade, doesn't he mention what he could do with the mace/illithium then?

Nuin

This is why I love bards.
"Oh, Illithium? (Character roll: ridiculously high lore check successful) I've heard legends about the ore being used to craft potentially very powerful weapons against undead. What, some idiot primadonna is planning to use the ore to create some stupid statue while Athkatla is being overrun by a vampiric thieves' guild?"
I don't care if you're lawful, you'd better have an INT below 10 or be suicidal to rationalize giving the ore to Sir Sarles. In all fairness though bards can't be lawful so the issue never really comes up heh.

Michelle

Staff of the Magi counts as a +5 for what it can hit. Flame Tongue counts as +4. Cloak of the Stars gives six +5 darts. Some Shapechange forms hit as +4 I think, pretty sure Iron Golem and maybe the Elementals. There are I think two or even three halberds that have +4 enchantment and one spear, I really don’t play them much so not sure there. BBoD hits as a +6. Gaesen bow is +4. Firetooth xbow and Sword of the Mask are both +4 and can be easily obtained without doing any of Watcher’s Keep. Staff of the Woodlands is +4 but is only found at the end of SoA. Cutthroat maybe is +4 but I don’t think that I have ever used it. Mordy Swords hit as +4.

Other than the previously mentioned weapons that may be it. Some HLA things maybe, Energy Blades definitely and maybe the Druid HLA elemental attacks. I think that Devas, Planetars and Elemental Princes hit as +3 but not certain.

Pretty sure that everything that needs a +4 or better enchantment in SoA has already been covered.