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Power Word: Guilt

For the first time ever, I had taken Imoen out of my party for my first solo run. Even if you don't dual Imoen to a mage, she still has this unnamed magical ability I am calling "Power Word: Guilt". Regardless of hit dice, and with no save, it makes you feel like crap when she drops a:

"Just...just like that? But we are friends and everything! Been friends for years! I guess...I guess I'll just wait 'till you need me again, because you will! Just wait and see!"

which is further exacerbated with an unavoidable flashback to this scene in Labyrinth:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=8hjepidj3I8

and it has progressively sucked the fun out of my cleric/thief solo.

So yeah, I don't know why, but every now and again in my life, I need you Imoen.

I didn't get far (barely to Nashkel), but I'm now restarting this character. Same character...minus the being an apparent douchebag for leaving Imoen behind.

Comments

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 2,681
    Play evil. No conscience = no remorse.

    Borek
  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 1,768
    Imoen was “accidentally” mortally wounded on the way to friendly arm inn and had to turn back to Candlekeep. Poor Imoen.
    Luckily, Charname met up with a soon-to-be-widowed hottie half-elf Druid (such a shame, her late husband gets murdered by gnolls while he is using the privy without his armor on, or so Charname saw in one of his dreams), and she “helps” Charname feel a little better about the whole Imoen thing.

    Borek
  • KnellerKneller Member Posts: 390
    I guess I just don't have it in me to do an evil run.

  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 1,768
    Think of it more like a choatic stupid run.

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,983


    She's a Bhaalspawn.

    Don't fall for the "BFF" nonsense, She just wants to shadow you until she can make a move and claim Bhaal's power for herself.

    Think about it, who else knew you were going to be on the road outside Candlekeep because they "found" (intercepted and stole) the letter.
    Quick note to Sarevok, he deals with you leaving her free to pursue her own bid for Godhood.

    Grond0Dhariusmashedtaters
  • KnellerKneller Member Posts: 390
    Yeah, actually, wtf is up with that? It makes me think she was never intended to be a bhaalspawn and it was
    just a twist they haphazardly threw into BG2. Everyone is coming after the PC, but here we are with this other bhaalspawn who very likely ends up being more powerful than the PC, what with her magery.

    UnderstandMouseMagicmashedtaters
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 6,710
    edited September 10
    @UnderstandMouseMagic
    But she immediately gives up her god essence as soon as she is given the chance in ToB.

    @Kneller Even better. She was never intended to join the player originally. Playtesters complained that their good aligned level 1 mages couldn't reach FAI without trusting the obviously evil Xzar and Montaron, so Imoen was made into a joinable thief to make it easier.

    Major spoiler for BG2 here :
    Then in BG2, Imoen was going to die, right up until near release, then players complained because she was so popular, so they brought her back and made her a bhaalspawn.

    Borekmashedtaters
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 3,656
    @Kneller

    I know just what you mean. I find it almost impossible to play Baldur's Gate without Imoen in my party (which means that the whole of SoD and much of SoA are quite painful for me). However, I do enjoy soloing and if you want to do it in a guilt-free way then you can avoid talking to her completely. You can dodge her and go straight to Gorion in Candlekeep and then when you are on the Lion's Way after the death of Gorion you can run straight off the edge of the map and go to High Hedge without talking to her. I'm so pathetic that I actually mute the sound because if I hear her saying "Heya, it's me, Imoen!" I would have to go back and talk to her.

    BorekmashedtatersCabal82
  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 198
    @UnderstandMouseMagic that's the funniest thing I've heard on the forums for a while :lol:

    But seriously Imoen is the cat's whiskers - you SHOULD feel guilty for turning down such a kickass NPC

    ThacoBellmashedtaters
  • xizorxizor Member Posts: 33
    @UnderstandMouseMagic Imagine if Imoen turned out to be the final boss in ToB, after manipulating everyone since the beginning.

    DhariusBorekmashedtaters
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,983
    ThacoBell said:

    @UnderstandMouseMagic

    But she immediately gives up her god essence as soon as she is given the chance in ToB.

    @Kneller Even better. She was never intended to join the player originally. Playtesters complained that their good aligned level 1 mages couldn't reach FAI without trusting the obviously evil Xzar and Montaron, so Imoen was made into a joinable thief to make it easier.

    Major spoiler for BG2 here :
    Then in BG2, Imoen was going to die, right up until near release, then players complained because she was so popular, so they brought her back and made her a bhaalspawn.
    She only gives it up because she is outnumbered, her little game is up.

    mashedtaters
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,983
    xizor said:

    @UnderstandMouseMagic Imagine if Imoen turned out to be the final boss in ToB, after manipulating everyone since the beginning.


    I wouldn't put it past her.

    Think about it, she's a thief and she has no respect for private property or privacy. There's absolutely no way when living in Candlekeep she wouldn't have found out she was a Bhaalspawn, sneaking around evesdropping, stealing all the letters, sucking up to people.

    I tells ya, the girl is bad to the bone.

    Then look at the way she runs off with Irenicus the moment she gets the chance.
    Lol, "I'm going to cast a pathetic Magic Missile knowing full well it won't hurt him at all."

    And how do we know Irenicus took her soul?
    Any witnesses?
    Could have been any old soul hanging around.

    And the clincher, no Bhaal dream, "I just felt nothing"
    Of course you didn't, it was all a set up and you were in on it with I and B.

    Borekmashedtaters
  • KnellerKneller Member Posts: 390
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,572
    edited September 11
    what happened in RL developing the game is not relevant for RP decisions.
    in game she is a bahlspawn, so your little sister, but no more than illasera or sendai or the many others you find in saradush by the way...
    and furthermore you don't know that she is so until very late in soa so, even if is your sister, so is completely absurd to RP according to that fact, as you don't know it, to take her with you cause is your sister is not RP, is breaking the 4rth wall, is metagaming.

    for you she is a friend, probably your best friend, and nothing more and nothing less.
    and you can RP to take your best friend with you or RP to go alone because that is your fate, you are going to do things that will put you in utter peril and to have your little friend, not sister, immy in some safe place is perfectly reasonable, nothing to feel guilty about it.

    when she say ""Just...just like that? But we are friends and everything! Been friends for years! I guess...I guess I'll just wait 'till you need me again, because you will! Just wait and see!" she is trying to put some pressure on you, to force your decision on something that is your personal quest, and this is not nice. to offer help to a friend is fine, but if he wants to solve his problems by himself, alone, she must accept his decision and let him go on his road, friendship should never be a prison.

    take immi or drop her as you like, without feeling guilty, both ways are fine depending on how you want to RP your charname.

    borntodiemashedtatersBalrog99
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,983

    On a serious note:

    Taking or leaving Imoen is a lot more complex than just being about the game.

    I have two daughters in their twenties (wow I'm old), it was absolutely vital and necessary IMO for them to forge their own ways. Both attended Uni, both had no time for each other for a period of years from early teenage to post Uni twenties.

    But now they are close and have (again IMO) a very healthy relationship where who was the youngest, their position in the family dynamic, doesn't matter so much.
    They are adults who like each other's company and arrange time to spend with each other. I think that's a lot better foundation for a lifetime's friendship than familial obligation.

    Take Imoen as the "little sister" and when does she get the chance not to be the "little sister" and charname not to be the "older sister"?

    Maybe it's more relevant if charname is female too?
    Not sure though, males need that time to grow up as an independant person as well. And perhaps as important, to allow their "little sister" to do the same.

    gorgonzolaGrond0_Nightfall_
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,572
    @UnderstandMouseMagic there is a lot of truth in what you say, and probably she is the "little imoen" by choice, as the tob epilogue states, with her being a powerful archmage seen together with the more powerful ones of faerun, running her own thief guild and, when asked about answering: "hey, it's just me, imoen".

    but the fact that both you and she ignore at the beginning of bg that also she is a bahlspawn remains.

  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 3,656
    I can talk endlessly about Imoen but I think she is probably the worst written character in the Baldur's Gate series. I love her in BG1 but in BG2 and SoD she just becomes a plot device. I find it impossible to believe in her as a mage (just because her stats meant she could dual class doesn't mean in makes any sense for her to do so character-wise).

    The original character was thrown together at the last minute and to my mind works brilliantly (for me she is the 'heart' of the game) but when writers have time to think about it and try to develop her character they seem to make a total bollox of it.

    borntodieGrond0
  • redlineredline Member Posts: 251

    I can talk endlessly about Imoen but I think she is probably the worst written character in the Baldur's Gate series. I love her in BG1 but in BG2 and SoD she just becomes a plot device. I find it impossible to believe in her as a mage (just because her stats meant she could dual class doesn't mean in makes any sense for her to do so character-wise).

    The original character was thrown together at the last minute and to my mind works brilliantly (for me she is the 'heart' of the game) but when writers have time to think about it and try to develop her character they seem to make a total bollox of it.

    I'm really curious what makes her so important in BG1, in your opinion. Original BG characters were really just a join dialog and some selection/attack sounds; no interjections, banters, or interesting personal quests (with some exceptions, like Coran and Eldoth). I can understand not liking the direction she took in SoD and BG2, but she was kind of a blank slate to begin with.

    As for my own approach to dropping her, I usually dump her with Khalid and Jaheira either before or after the mines. Headcanon it as splitting up to follow up on different leads for the bandits/iron crisis and leave it at that. Makes it so you're still on good terms and somewhat justifies everyone teaming back up before the events of BG2.

    I liked the direction Bioware took with party selection in later games, from Jade Empire onwards; everyone is part of the "party" but only a subset join you on a particular mission. Makes it so you don't have to dump any of the obviously-canon companions if you want to mix things up.

    Mirandel
  • fluke13fluke13 Member Posts: 261
    I forget who it was, but one forumite suggested Imoen was charname's invisible friend. It's a nice idea and if you leave her behind, as painful as it is, it could just be charname letting go of his inhibitions and alter ego.

  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 1,032
    Kneller said:

    Yeah, actually, wtf is up with that? It makes me think she was never intended to be a bhaalspawn and it was just a twist they haphazardly threw into BG2.

    That is exactly what happened.

  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 3,656
    redline said:

    I'm really curious what makes her so important in BG1, in your opinion. Original BG characters were really just a join dialog and some selection/attack sounds; no interjections, banters, or interesting personal quests (with some exceptions, like Coran and Eldoth). I can understand not liking the direction she took in SoD and BG2, but she was kind of a blank slate to begin with.

    I like her because she is big-hearted, adventurous, funny and irreverent ( I love the fact that she has looked through Gorion's papers and knows more about your journey than you do) and I think the voice acting by Melissa Disney is great. The fact that you have obviously grown up together means I care about her straight away and the fact that she follows you on your journey and will stand by you through thick and thin is important to me. When playing with a party I generally play as a paladin, so while I am being the big damn hero she is the light-hearted sidekick who keeps me grounded.

    I don't think it is quite true that she is a blank slate. She doesn't have many lines but all of them point to a particular character (a character who disappears without a trace in SoD and SoA). Interestingly (at least interestingly to me) I don't associate her portrait with her at all. The BG1 portrait looks way too knowing, the BG2 portrait looks way too sad and the SoD portrait looks like it was painted by the same person who did the botched restoration of a Spanish fresco of Jesus Christ.


    Ecce Homo (Behold the Man) by Elias Garcia Martinez following 'restoration' by Cecilia Gimenez



    Imoen from Siege of Dragonspear



  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,983

    redline said:

    I'm really curious what makes her so important in BG1, in your opinion. Original BG characters were really just a join dialog and some selection/attack sounds; no interjections, banters, or interesting personal quests (with some exceptions, like Coran and Eldoth). I can understand not liking the direction she took in SoD and BG2, but she was kind of a blank slate to begin with.

    I like her because she is big-hearted, adventurous, funny and irreverent ( I love the fact that she has looked through Gorion's papers and knows more about your journey than you do) and I think the voice acting by Melissa Disney is great. The fact that you have obviously grown up together means I care about her straight away and the fact that she follows you on your journey and will stand by you through thick and thin is important to me. When playing with a party I generally play as a paladin, so while I am being the big damn hero she is the light-hearted sidekick who keeps me grounded.

    I don't think it is quite true that she is a blank slate. She doesn't have many lines but all of them point to a particular character (a character who disappears without a trace in SoD and SoA). Interestingly (at least interestingly to me) I don't associate her portrait with her at all. The BG1 portrait looks way too knowing, the BG2 portrait looks way too sad and the SoD portrait looks like it was painted by the same person who did the botched restoration of a Spanish fresco of Jesus Christ.


    Ecce Homo (Behold the Man) by Elias Garcia Martinez following 'restoration' by Cecilia Gimenez



    Imoen from Siege of Dragonspear




    She is a blank slate, the most obvious blank slate of any blank slate anywhere.

    Opinions are so divided about her because every player can project whatever they want onto her.

    You see "big-hearted, adventurous, funny and irreverent".
    I see, "desperate to be loved, foolhardy, immature and annoying".

    Why it goes so badly awry in BG2 is because there is no basis for the character, nothing to build on.

    Very few people are what you see in Imoen in BG, no demons, no jealousies, no anger whatsoever. Mindless, happy go lucky, cheerful loyalty.
    She's a pet not a person.

    The "why" of Imoen is never explored in BG, why is she so devoid of her own sense of "self" that she behaves so selflessly.

    OK, she want's an adventure and is bored.
    How far would that drive a person after they have come under serious attack?

    At some point self preservation would kick in. Some argument about not going to explore mines ect. It's a "suspension of belief" that's acceptable for Charname but not the sidekick.

    This is all opinion BTW, it's an interesting subject.

    Permidion_Stark
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 3,656
    edited September 14

    This is all opinion BTW, it's an interesting subject.

    That's okay, I know you and I and never likely to agree on the subject of Imoen.

  • Yulaw9460Yulaw9460 Member Posts: 584

    Don't fall for the "BFF" nonsense, She just wants to shadow you until she can make a move and claim Bhaal's power for herself.

    Which, incidentally, means that if she somehow survives all attempts at her life, there's still the massive (and undisablable) floortrap beneath Spellhold to squeeze every ounce of ambition of ascension out of her.

    UnderstandMouseMagic
  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 99
    edited September 15

    She is a blank slate, the most obvious blank slate of any blank slate anywhere.

    An NPC cannot be a "blank slate" by definition because they will always have estabilished apperance and writing. Unless they're mute and invisible, but at that point they might not even exist at all. Imoen's character, like characters of most BG NPCs, are estabilished by their writing, as limited as it is.
    You see "big-hearted, adventurous, funny and irreverent".
    I see, "desperate to be loved, foolhardy, immature and annoying".
    But that's just two people's different take on her character. One man's big-hearted is another man's desperate to be loved. It's just as some people see Aerie as cute while others see her as whiny, or how some people see Minsc as a funny crazy guy while one person in the world thinks he's just a cringeworthy idiot.

    gorgonzolaThacoBell
  • _Nightfall__Nightfall_ Member Posts: 99
    I always saw her as the Tasslehoff Burrfoot of the BG series or at least the attempt.

    I have never taken her after finding out she was my sister, mostly because of my relationship with my younger sister. We have never been close even though there is only four years between us. She was popular, beautiful and partied all the time and I was the freak with her nose in a book and no friends. It never improved, I went on to college and she became a model. We are not enemies but not friends either, the only time we are a team is against our brothers. We are too different I think.

  • Yulaw9460Yulaw9460 Member Posts: 584
    But hey, at least you have IE-games. That's way better than any scrawny siblings. Right? >:)

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