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Grim Dawn

jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,729
edited September 2018 in Off-Topic
I know we have had some limited discussion of this game before, but with a new expansion on the horizon (Forgotten Gods), and this forum's general love of the loot-hunt, ARPG genre, it is really time to give this game it's due.

Grim Dawn is without question the main successor to Diablo 2 in every way. Many people (especially here) actually prefer Titan Quest to Diablo 2. Well, Grim Dawn takes the best aspect of Titan Quest (which in my mind is the dual-mastery system that allows dozens of class possibilities) and eliminates the glacial pace of that game. It's basic premise is based on Titan Quest, it's engine is based on Titan Quest. But it is faster, it is tighter, the monster density is infinitely better. There are more secret areas and dungeons than you can shake a stick at.

The core of any game like this is the skills and the loot hunt, and this game has both in spades. You have your main mastery, your supplemental mastery. Then you have a Devotion tree of dozens of Constellations to further certain aspects of your build. Every piece of gear can be enchanted (in this game called augmentation). If you liked the resistances and the role they played in Nightmare and Hell in Diablo 2, you will be happy to know that Grim Dawn has at least twice as many you need to manage to survive. There are more Legendary Items and gameplay defining sets than one can count. There is a faction and reputation system. The more of certain types of enemies you kill, the more lucrative spawns start appearing. There is a wave-mode called the Crucible if you need to get yourself a level or two and some quick loot. It currently has six acts and is expanding to eight. It brings back the idea of farming certain bosses for certain items. Picking up gear is necessary because gold (iron bits in this game) is scarce and absolutely necessary and meaningful to your success, yet thankfully your inventory is always big enough that you aren't constantly porting back to town. Crafting materials matter. There are a myriad of potions that give actual buffs and resistances.

Bottom-line: The game is accessible, deep, fluid, and best of all, it is a totally solo experience. While you can certainly team up with friends, no ARPG (outside of maybe Torchlight 2) has ever been this solo-friendly. The fact that the drops aren't balanced around thousands of people playing means you are always finding something exciting and making progress that doesn't rely on other people. This game has always been good ever since it was released, but they have not only vastly improved optimization, but the expansions (and coming expansion) have fleshed out all it's weaknesses and turned it into an absolute juggernaut of the genre. It combines the best aspects of Diablo 2, Titan Quest, Torchlight 2, and Path of Exile and has very little of the weaknesses of any of those games. There is no reason any ARPG fan shouldn't have a copy of Grim Dawn on their computer. On top of all that, the developers are totally focused on listening to the hardcore community, and even a cursory visit to the forums will show evidence of this. There isn't any real toxicity in the Grim Dawn community, just a couple thousand people who love ARPG mechanics. It's turned into one of the great games of recent years. If you aren't a person who gives a crap about ladder races or online economies, there is no other choice for the king of the hill.

Post edited by jjstraka34 on
FardragonLudwig_IIvoidofopinionBelgarathMTHmashedtaterstypo_tillyJuliusBorisov
«13

Comments

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,129
    edited September 2018
    Never pllayed it, but I gotta admit you sold it well, hehe.. So may I ask you to summarize the downsides of PoE that you mention above? I know DII well, but never played neither titan quest nor torchlight. I liked PoE for a time though and I still think (even after stop playing) it's a game that has practically zero flaws. It's IMHO the next-gen DII and and I think it's skill system is really cool. But compared to Grim Dawn, what aspects in PoE is not as good?

    Edit: Btw just as an FYI; I am one of those that actually think D3 was pretty good. I never played any expansion/DLC though, only the original.

    Ludwig_IIvoidofopinion
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,729
    Skatan said:

    Never pllayed it, but I gotta admit you sold it well, hehe.. So may I ask you to summarize the downsides of PoE that you mention above? I know DII well, but never played neither titan quest nor torchlight. I liked PoE for a time though and I still think (even after stop playing) it's a game that has practically zero flaws. It's IMHO the next-gen DII and and I think it's skill system is really cool. But compared to Grim Dawn, what aspects in PoE is not as good?

    Edit: Btw just as an FYI; I am one of those that actually think D3 was pretty good. I never played any expansion/DLC though, only the original.

    Alot of people here like to play Diablo 2 with a mod called PlugY, which allows for infinite storage space and enables Ladder-only runewords. If you play the vanilla version of Diablo 2, you have to be on Battlenet realm to access these features, and that limits your stash space to nothing. I am basically selling Grim Dawn to those who love playing Diablo 2 as a self-found loot hunt.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with Path of Exile. It's innovative, it's developers are constantly pushing the envelope, and with it's recent (well, in the last couple years) addition of Solo Self-Found, it also has some of the aspects I love about Grim Dawn. It is also BY FAR the best free-to-play game of all-time, and I don't even think there is a close second. But the game is constantly shifting it's direction, because everything is focused around limited time leagues. Sometimes they get rolled into the core gameplay, and sometimes they disappear forever. I am not a fan of limited-time content, and that is the only problem I have with it. I am also not interested in ladder races or an online economy. Moreover, the loot drops in Path of Exile are designed around thousands upon thousands of people trading with each other to get them.

    I am recommending Grim Dawn as the ultimate solution to people who like to play ARPGs as a solo experience and like to find their own gear. Because that is what it was designed to be. The only other game that has been like it is Torchlight 2, which is great for what it is, but had basically no post-launch support. The stash in Grim Dawn is very generous, though not infinite. But this is also remedied by a simple Java add-on that can be found on any major mod site.

    Ludwig_IISkatan
  • Ludwig_IILudwig_II Member Posts: 291
    Not a fan of action RPGs, but as Skatan said, you sold it so well that I'm going to give it a try

    Skatan
  • voidofopinionvoidofopinion Member, Moderator Posts: 1,248
    I have only kickstarted 2 games. Grim Dawn and Star Citizen.

    I'm really glad I kickstarted Grim Dawn first.

    :D

    jjstraka34
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,600
    I've been back into ARPG's lately after several weeks playing Pillars of Eternity. Right now I'm playing Sacred 2 again, which is my favorite, even more than Titan Quest (which is probably a close second). I'll have to give Grim Dawn another go once that expansion releases. Thanks for the heads up.

    I like Grim Dawn, but it isn't my all time favorite, because I think the color scheme and the post-apocalyptic theme of the game world are a little depressing to me. The enemy density is also a little too much for my liking - it's very intense, and if you ever get stuck in a corner with a squishy glass cannon toon, you're done for. But for anyone who loves the zombie apocalypse genre and intense game play, Grim Dawn would be the perfect game for you.

    Skatanjjstraka34mashedtatersJuliusBorisov
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,129
    Is it all about zombies? I think that genre is a bit saturated and I can get bored quickly.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,600
    Skatan said:

    Is it all about zombies? I think that genre is a bit saturated and I can get bored quickly.

    No, it just starts out that way. There's a big enemy variety. The main storyline has a lot to do with undeath, though.

    Skatanmashedtaters
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,729
    edited September 2018

    I've been back into ARPG's lately after several weeks playing Pillars of Eternity. Right now I'm playing Sacred 2 again, which is my favorite, even more than Titan Quest (which is probably a close second). I'll have to give Grim Dawn another go once that expansion releases. Thanks for the heads up.

    I like Grim Dawn, but it isn't my all time favorite, because I think the color scheme and the post-apocalyptic theme of the game world are a little depressing to me. The enemy density is also a little too much for my liking - it's very intense, and if you ever get stuck in a corner with a squishy glass cannon toon, you're done for. But for anyone who loves the zombie apocalypse genre and intense game play, Grim Dawn would be the perfect game for you.

    You may be happy to know that the new expansion is set in a desert environment, much like Lut Gohlein in Diablo 2. It is also adding the Oathkeeper Mastery, which is essentially their Paladin branch. There is no set release date yet, but every indication from the development blog gives me the feeling it's less than 6 weeks away.

    mashedtatersBelgarathMTH
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Skatan said:

    Is it all about zombies? I think that genre is a bit saturated and I can get bored quickly.

    No, it just has zombies in it.

    The main plot is very lovecraftian (meets the wild west).

    mashedtatersBelgarathMTH
  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,243
    I’m a big fan of grim dawn as well. It is Diablo 2’s real successor, in my opinion.

    I like the setting, the artwork, the story (which I know is secondary in these games, but I still found it interesting), the gameplay, it’s all awesome.

    A really cool thing about it is that the game doesn’t care if you break your character by choosing the wrong skills during level ups. You can undo the changes you make in exchange for iron bits. But I’ve also found that it’s pretty hard to make a bad character. Spread out, jack of all-trades characters typically suffer in games like these, because you end up wasting points just out of curiosity. No big deal, just buy them back, or even reuse your old points on newer, cooler skill trees. You can do this even if you just get bored.

    I’ve read that some people make super killer builds and crank up the difficulty, and it actually makes a difference. That’s cool, because too many of these types games don’t seem to change if you crank up the difficulty. I know many people don’t get enough challenge out of games like this (not a problem I struggle with, but maybe that’s because I just like to play for leisure) and thus get bored, but this one does not share that weakness.

    Overall, it’s the best ARGP I’ve played since Diablo 2. I like it better than diablo 2 at this point simply because it’s refeshing, new, and improved, and the Diablo 2 plotline has been done to death in every ARPG since it’s inception. Grim Dawn has a fairly logical explanation for why the entire countryside is covered with baddies, and it fits into the game nicely.

    BelgarathMTH
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,129
    edited December 2018
    bought the game on sale recently and man OH MAN are I having a blast! This game is truly everything said above and more. I am officially IN LOVE with Grim Dawn. I'm gonna buy the expansion as well (not sure about he crucible, but the inquisitor and the necromancer I want to have.

    Holy crappalicious, I have played non-stop the entire christmas holidays. Would love to try it co-op with a friend, I think combining different classes would be cool to see.

    Playing a Shaman/Occultist (Conjurer) focusing on lighting with three summons/familiars as meat walls since I am a bit of a glass-cannon. The primal strike animation of the shaman never cease to amaze me, even after 3 chapters. Blasting things with lightning and seeing their ragdolls flying around is extremely satisfying. Love the setting, the music, the items. My only caveats so far (and this is not really negatives, just slighly less perfect positives) is there's almost too much items and there could have been a few more different skills per mastery class. There's aren't that many options to tailor your character, thought with the double classes and the Devotions that can add skills as well, there's plenty to do and choose from. I restarted after 24 levels in my first class and made the char I have now. I guess I will hit a wall sooner or later, you always do in these kind of games (especially with glasscannons, ie demonhunter in D3), so looking forward to seeing what it will be. In the first round (norman) it's often common to go for damage, then in later iterations (nightmare/hell ) you often have to focus more on resists. So far, I think this game keeps to that formula with their -25 on all resists per difficulty level. I'm reaching the end of normal, my guy is around level 40 IIRC, so gonna restart immideately on next level and keep playing, hehe..

    Thanks for the heads-up @jjstraka34! I did put it on my wishlist (gog and steam) after your post and have been waiting for a good deal. Wiht some wallet funds I got grim dawn for the equivalent of 3 USD on GOG. The expansion is around 10 or so now with winter sales. Maybe I should just buy that one too :) Yeah, I'll go in and do that now, hehe..

    edit: managed to reach to the low cap for a free copy of Everspace from GOG thanks to buying the two DLCs for Grim Dawn just now. Another game I wishlisted some time ago. Not bad :)

    JuliusBorisov
  • DorcusDorcus Member Posts: 251
    Q: Is there a preferred platform for trading? I have it on GOG but I've never seen a public game listed ever, but I've also heard you have to get on Discord to really want to get into the item economy.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,729
    Forgotten Gods, the final expansion, released earlier today. No developer of this genre deserves your money more, and the price is once again quite reasonable.

    SkatanBelgarathMTHFardragon
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,600
    edited March 2019
    Omg, another release that interests me. I still haven't tried Pillars of Eternity 2, Divinity: Original Sin 2, or even finished a complete run of PoE1 and D:OS 1, not to mention Pathfinder:Kingmaker.

    I'm more into Diablo style games recently, so maybe I'll try the Grim Dawn expansion next, when I have time and money.

    I think we're living in another golden age of rpg releases, similar to the late 1990's early 2000's. There are even more fantastic games available now than then. As I often say, so many games, so little time. If I ever get to retire, I know what I'm doing all day every day. ;)

    Skatan
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,729
    edited March 2019
    Omg, another release that interests me. I still haven't tried Pillars of Eternity 2, Divinity: Original Sin 2, or even finished a complete run of PoE1 and D:OS 1, not to mention Pathfinder:Kingmaker.

    I'm more into Diablo style games recently, so maybe I'll try the Grim Dawn expansion next, when I have time and money.

    I think we're living in another golden age of rpg releases, similar to the late 1990's early 2000's. There are even more fantastic games available now than then. As I often say, so many games, so little time. If I ever get to retire, I know what I'm doing all day every day. ;)

    I'm familiar with the fact that you aren't a fan of dark and oppressive atmospheres as opposed to ones with vivid colors. While Forgotten Gods may not be vibrant, it IS set in a desert and oasis, which is a far cry from 75% of the rest of the game. And they have added the 9th mastery, the Oathkeeper, which is essentially the classic Diablo Paladin/Crusader. Along with a new game mode called the Shattered Realm (D3 rifts or PoE maps) and new Runes that are specifically designed around mobility and speed ala the Enigma Runeword in D2.

    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
    BelgarathMTH
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    The Captain America bouncing shield throw is awesome!

    BelgarathMTH
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,729
    edited March 2019
    Fardragon wrote: »
    The Captain America bouncing shield throw is awesome!

    Yep, I made an Oathkeeper from scratch. Reminds me more of playing a Protection Paladin in WoW than the recent Crusader in Diablo 3.

    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
    BelgarathMTH
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,600
    Now I *really* want to play it. The "holy warrior" is my favorite character type across all games. And my WoW character is a protection pally. :)

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,600
    BTW, are any stability issues or bugs becoming known? That is, should I maybe wait for a couple of patch cycles before buying?

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,729
    BTW, are any stability issues or bugs becoming known? That is, should I maybe wait for a couple of patch cycles before buying?

    People are having crashes, but I've played at least two hours from scratch and haven't had any. So, nothing to be lost from waiting a week, I guarantee Crate will fix any issues. The other thing I will say is that the new area, unlike Ashes of Malmouth, is accessible immediately after defeating Warden Krieg (Grim Dawn's Andariel essentially), so you don't have to go through an entire play-through to see the new areas. And the Oathkeeper shield talent is available as soon as level 2.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    There are some giant scarabs.

    (There are quite a few critters in the new expansion that look suspiciously like ones from Titan Quest. Hmm.)

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,729
    Another thing I will mention is that Grim Dawn, unlike other games in this genre (aside from Torchlight 2) invites you and encourages you to explore the entire map. Enemies in certain cases are random, but outside of the new Shattered Realms, the maps are not. In many ways, it's meant to be explored in the way any other RPG is, though obviously since it's a ARPG, you may revisit those areas dozens or hundreds of times.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,035
    I really liked much more D2 than Titan quest. By just two reasons.
    1 - More interesting skills on D2
    2 - Cooldowns

    Every cool skill in TQ has insanely long cooldowns. And i don't wanna constant watch my skill bar in a action focused RPG to see what skills i can use. But GD is IMO one of the best MODERN aRPG. I still prefer old games, they are more immersive despite the dated graphics.

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,129
    Anyone playing the new expansion want to write a little mini-review? I have all DLCs for GD except the new one and I'm contemplating whether or not to buy it. I think I need a little nudging :D

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    It feels smaller that Ashes of Malmouth, and the maps a little less complex. I haven't really delved into the secrets though. I have a feeling some are supposed to be accessed via the new teleport abilities, but I can't get it to work. Some of the "new" critters look very much like assets borrowed from Titan Quest. There is a lot of interesting story, and a couple of loose ends are tied up. The final boss fight was fun.

    The new Mastery is fun, with the shield throw and spin attacks highlights, and it's nice to have "anti-paladin" options built in. The option to make your standard attacks do acid damage is a powerful low key option. But there is only one, compared to two in Ashes of Malmouth.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,729
    edited April 2019
    They were very up-front that it was a smaller expansion than the previous one, even going so far as to produce an entire page of stats indicating what it added to the game compared to Ashes and the base product. As such, it is priced lower ($15). I suppose if you ONLY care about the length of the story/campaign in the new areas, then it may seem like a steep price, but that is decidedly NOT how games in this genre are supposed to be played. This doesn't even touch on the Shattered Realm, which is their version of D3 rifts or PoE maps. People who are complaining about it being "short" are taking twinked level 100 characters and saying they completed it in 4 or 5 hours. Well, yeah, no shit. I suggest those people take a new character on Veteran to the new areas right after killing the Warden and then get through the same content in the same amount of time. I spent at least two hours in one dungeon because it was so challenging at that level with early gear:

    d8tk0xw3bnsm.jpg

    BelgarathMTHJuliusBorisovSkatan
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited April 2019
    I think it also seems shorter because you have to choose from one of three factions.

    But it didn't take me much more than 6 hours to complete with a level 65-67 character. It's easier than Malmouth as well as shorter. But that was only the main questline.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,729
    edited July 2019
    So, Patch 1.14 came out this week. And in addition to even more performance tweaks (this game is now almost perfectly optimized and has options to make it run smoothly on all sorts of rigs) but it also has incorporated things previously done with mods, such as a powerful, detailed loot filter and the ability at long last to auto pick-up crafting materials. On top of that, they have given the monster health bars an overhaul and continue to make visual updates. And the balancing patch has made the lower-level areas a real danger again, at least on veteran. My Pyromancer (Demolitionist/Occultist) had to be on top of her game for almost 5 minutes straight to beat the Warden. Great stuff.

    I never thought I would say this, but I really think it's earned what I'm going to say here. Grim Dawn is better than Diablo 2. I have no problem at this point proclaiming it the best ARPG (in the classic Diablo-sense) of all-time. And it's the result of well over 7 years of development and constant work to get to this point (decades if you count Titan Quest as the dry-run template). It's astonishingly good, and I don't really know how the genre can possibly get any better than this at the moment.

    SkatanBelgarathMTHGusinda
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