Is this cheating?
Permidion_Stark
Member Posts: 4,861
I recently discovered that you can equip the Shield Amulet, activate it and then take it off and replace it with another amulet, such as the Greenstone Amulet, and activate that too. At first I thought this was a bug that needed fixing and that the effects of the amulets should end as soon as they were removed. But then I started to wonder whether it was intentional and that since you are expending a charge each time you use an amulet it is okay to do this.
I know that if this is cheating then the only person I am cheating is myself but I was wondering whether other people consider swapping amulets like this is a cheat or not.
(I assume this probably works with the Sandthief's Ring as well, so you could, for example, make yourself invisible and then take off the ring and put on a Ring of Protection or whatever but I haven't tried this to see if it works)
I know that if this is cheating then the only person I am cheating is myself but I was wondering whether other people consider swapping amulets like this is a cheat or not.
(I assume this probably works with the Sandthief's Ring as well, so you could, for example, make yourself invisible and then take off the ring and put on a Ring of Protection or whatever but I haven't tried this to see if it works)
2
Comments
items with charges act somehow like spells, if your cleric cast on you chaotic command, that gives a mental shield, different but comparable to the one of the amulet, the effect lasts for the intended time, but the cleric is no more needed, even if he dies in battle 1 split second after casting the effect is still there.
same for the amulets, as long as the charge is consumed and the effect is obtained the amulet is no more needed, so you can put it in your inventory and equip an other with a permanent effect or even with charges.
you can test, if you can (using pause) activate both the amulets in a very short time i am wrong, if you have to wait the beginning of the next round using their charge mus be regarded as a magical action so i am probably right. (magical actions in the game are casting, using scrolls, wands, potions and this kind of stuff, opposed to physical attack, only 1 magical action/round is allowed).
those are my 2 cents, but in this kind of things the personal opinion of the player is what really matter.
While you can only use 1 charge in a round for an individual character you can swap amulets around between characters - so protecting a party of 6 using the shield amulet is possible in a single round for instance.
In BG2 I tend to use the belt of CON the same way. There's no point having a belt that offers nothing after you popped a charge and got your 18 CON on Haer'dalis, Dorn or whatever. Better to equip a belt vs AC afterwards.
Vhailor's Helm also has no passive benefit to equipping it. Just an active ability you can use. There's not really any reason to equip it for longer than it takes to use the ability.
I'd think of it like using a wand. You're not necessarily committing to having that wand in that slot all day long or anything. You just want to use it for what it does and then move on with your day.
The game made a specific point of you being unable to swap the armor slot mid combat, but all other slots are fair game. I'd take that as a sign that it's not an oversight to swap helmets, amulets, etc this way. The game was thoughtfully designed with this kind of gameplay in mind.
like passing around a wand or the rod of resurrection to bypass the 1 magic action/round limit to have up to 6 stacked fireballs or cloudkills or complete healing in 1 round using a single multiple charge item.
as i told i don't use the trick but i tested right now and combining this with the wand of lighting trick and using 3 mages i was able to stack 36 cloudkill in about a second using only 2 wands
i must post it in the thread about unusual powerful tactics...
i did in the pocked plane and the pour sarevok (you need a target to use the wand of lighting trick) lasted less than 1 round.
EDIT: only 18 cloudkill
Note that if you have two/three/four weapons equiped with magical charges you can use those charges without switching weapons. For instance my favourite combos being namarra+2 which has 3 charges of silence 10' except that this one is party friendly! Amazing for silencing clerics with greater malison with massive -9 save. All this without even using namarra since it's on secondary weapon slot.
Same with staff of the magi and other powerful charge weapons.
That is a good point but I suppose the difference is that you are using items that are equipped (they are in your weapon slots or quick slots). What makes me feel bad about switching the amulets is that I am taking one off and putting another on. It just feels a bit cheesy to me.
I think I may just have to give up on playing Kensai/Thieves and switch to a plain old Fighter/Thief combo. That way I can wear some decent armour and won't need the Shield Amulet in the first place.
the weapons in other slots than the one that you are using confirm that the whole thing is not an exploit.
a permanent effect, like the strength one of the upgraded angurvadal, apply only if the weapon is equipped (selected for use), but you loose it as long as you are using an other weapon in an other slot.
so is not true, the weapon is in a weapon slot but has to be equipped to give the permanent effect, to have a weapon in a slot does not mean that you are equipping it. you can use the charge effect of a weapon also if it is not equipped (= selected as weapon to use), you can use it just for the fact that the weapon is in a slot, same that with amulets, and you can remove the weapon from the slot after using the charge, without loosing the effect of the charge, same as with the amulets.
there is really nothing cheesy using a charge item, and it has to be in a slot to activate the charge, and then unequipping it, it has to be in a slot to activate the charge, you can not do it from the inventory, but as the charge is activated the item is no more needed. you have to put it in the slot only to avoid that someone that is not allowed to use it uses it, not cause it has to remain in the slot. a kensai can not activate a gauntlet with charges cause he can not equip it, a druid can not activate a long sword with charges for the same reason. and this is the only reason why you have to put the item with charges in a slot, without any evidence that it must remain there after using the charge.
the kensai thieves are so fun to play, why do you want to spoil yourself of that fun? there are a lot of possibles exploits and cheats in this game, but in this case is not cheating at all, is how the game mechanics work, not an abuse of the mechanics.
and there are also a lot of lame tactics that make easy to win battles that other way compel you to use brain and all the resources you have at disposal.
the point imho is not avoiding cheating, even if this is really not the case, is avoiding too easy solutions, some of them 100% legit, that trivialize fights and spoil the fun and satisfaction to win by fair means, where by fair means i intend using knowledge, creativity, right timing and positioning of the party instead of abusing AI weakness.
You guys make a very persuasive argument. Maybe I will give my Kensai/Thief another run out after all.
Net net, OP question is not a cheat and not by far. It is how game works by design.