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  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    GundanRTO wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    So Cohen wasn't the only one to testify today and I was waiting for this testimony to share this entire story even though it broke a couple weeks ago...

    Meanwhile in Canada:

    Former attorney general of Canada, Jody Wilson-Raybould gave damning testimony today to the House of Commons justice committee regarding being pressured to drop or change the charges of a Quebec engineering company called SNC-Lavalin, to the point where she said the Prime Minister (Justin Trudeau) applied pressure himself and removed her from the position of attorney general after she did not go along with it.

    Some back story (sorry for the wall of text):

    In Feb 2015, the RCMP (Canada's FBI) lays corruption and fraud charges against SNC-Lavalin. They allege that the company used bribery to get work in Libya. If convicted, the company would be barred from obtaining Canadian government contracts for 10 years. SNC-Lavalin brings in roughly $9.5 billion yearly, has about 50,000 employees and operates in over 160 countries. It is a Quebec darling.

    October of 2015, Liberals win the federal election with a majority and Justin Trudeau taps Jody Wilson-Raybould to Minister of Justice which also makes her the attorney general.

    After extensive lobbying by SNC-Lavalin, in 2018, the Liberals table budget bill that changes the Criminal Code that allows companies to file a "remediation agreements." Basically, these agreements allow a company to pay a fine, promise good behaviour in the future to prevent criminal conviction. SNC-Lavalin (knowing that Liberals have a majority and the bill will pass regardless) start the process of attempting to get a remediation agreement even though it isn't law.

    The caveat, in September that year, prior to the bill being passed, the Public Prosecution Service denies SNC-Lavalin the chance to negotiate one of these new remediation agreements. As attorney general, Wilson-Raybould could overrule the prosecution services decision and has a conversation with Trudeau regarding the file. This doesn't sit well with Wilson-Raybould as she point blank asks him "is he politically interfering with this case." He says no, and the decision is up to her, he just is attempting to "find a solution" for the company.

    She sticks to her guns, and does not interfere with the Prosecution Office. Obviously SNC-Lavalin does not like the decision and neither does its stock holders as its shares fall nearly 14%.

    In January, Trudeau shuffles his government cabinet positions and moves Wilson-Raybould to Veterans Affairs (seen as a demotion) and appoints Montreal MP David Lametti to Justice.

    Then, on February 7 this year, the Globe and Mail (sadly behind a paywall) wrote an article stating the Wilson-Raybould was pressured by the Prime Minister's office to intervene in the SNC-Lavalin case and her lack of cooperation was the result of her being ousted as Minister of Justice (and as Attorney General of Canada). The Ethics commissioner (seriously US, get one) begins an investigation regarding the claims.

    Liberals go into full damage control over the article. Justin Trudeau gets in front of news cameras on February 11th and basically says everything is fine, I said it was her decision alone in the case, Jody and I still have a wonderful relationship. Her continued presence in cabinet speaks for itself blah blah blah.

    Feb 12, she resigns from cabinet, exploding the story even further and sending Trudeau into damage control saying he is disappointed and doesn't know the reason why she resigned. At the same time Wilson-Raybould releases a statement saying she hired a former supreme court justice to advice her on solicitor-client privilege.


    Feb 13th the liberal led justice committee debates about probing it themselves. They call one closed door meeting to hear from Lametti about the tensions of his or her duties being justice minister as well as attorney general at the same time. Everyone smells a coverup brewing and loudly demand that the government of Canada waive solicitor-client privilege and allow Wilson-Raybould to tell her side of the story.

    On Feb 18th, the Liberals attempt to tap a fall guy Gerald Butts as he resigns from the Prime Ministers Office over the allegations stating his presence is a distraction while also claiming he did nothing wrong.

    The next day, Wilson-Raybould attends a Liberal cabinet meeting which is odd because she resigned. Wilson-Raybould allegedly asked to speak there, however due to cabinet confidentiality what was said was never made public.

    Then on the 25th, after much public backlash, Trudeau waives both cabinet confidentially and solicitor-client privilege for Wilson-Raybould to speak.

    She did so today here are her opening remarks (video):

    For a period of approximately four months between September and December 2018, I experienced a consistent and sustained effort by many people within the government to seek to politically interfere in the exercise of prosecutorial discretion in my role as the Attorney General of Canada in an inappropriate effort to secure a Deferred Prosecution Agreement with SNC-Lavalin. These events involved 11 people (excluding myself and my political staff) – from the Prime Minister’s Office, the Privy Council Office, and the Office of the Minister of Finance. This included in-person conversations, telephone calls, emails, and text messages. There were approximately 10 phone calls and 10 meetings specifically about SNC-Lavalin that I and/or my staff was a part of.

    Within these conversations, there were express statements regarding the necessity for interference in the SNC-Lavalin matter, the potential for consequences, and veiled threats if a DPA was not made available to SNC. These conversations culminated on December 19, 2018, with a phone conversation I had with the Clerk of the Privy Council – a conversation for which I will provide some significant detail.

    A few weeks later, on January 7, 2019, I was informed by the Prime Minister that I was being shuffled out of the role of Minister of Justice and the Attorney General of Canada.


    ~~

    the 10 contacts were in concern of the Quebec provincial elections being held in the fall and how a poor ruling could result in SNC-Lavalin laying off staff in Quebec or even moving out of province which would hurt the Liberals.

    This is obviously very, very bad for the Liberals heading into an election year. This also broke just in time as I wouldn't put it past Lametti to overrule the prosecutions office before this went to trial.


    Messy situation for Trudeau and the Liberals, though not altogether surprising given how the government has handled other situations like the Trans-Mountain Pipeline. In many ways, they haven't really differed from their predecessors.

    That said, in spite of the fact that the government has alienated the right and left, they still stand a good chance of retaining power simply because the current political dynamic skews toward the center in this country.

    The biggest scandal from the conservatives was Duffy being asked to pay back expenses because the optics of the situation looked bad and Duffy refused.

    It was party politics and an attempt to make the story go away by just paying off the alleged debt. I’ll also note that all conservative senators involved were found not guilty after their trial.

    This is attempting to interfere with the justice system by not only passing a law that amounts to bribery but also the applied pressure and removal of the attorney general because she wouldn’t play favouritism with a company that has the Quebec Liberals in their back pocket.

    It’s also very hard now to keep a straight face when talking to the Chinese about detaining the Huawei executive and saying we take the independence of our justice system seriously.

    This is much worse than anything the Harper government was ever accused of doing.

    I’ll also say that I am glad that this story broke when it did because it isn’t a coincidence but that the new justice minister represents Montreal where SNC-Lavalin has their headquarters. He would have interfered but with all the noise can’t now.

    But you’re right. They still hold onto power because the conservatives are leaning too far right (and have their own divisions) and the NDP can’t get their act together.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/02/28/middleeast/israel-benjamin-netanyahu-indictment-intl/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/


    This recently came up - but it looks like Netanyahu will end up being indicted based on three separate corruption investigations. The exact charges are still to be determined, but the damage is being done.

    It's going to be fascinating to juxtapose this to our current refusal to even entertain the idea of whether we can indict a sitting President (hint: there isn't a single thing that prevents it other than made-up theories) and whether Netanyahu now engages in Trumpian tactics against law enforcement and prosecutors.
  • GundanRTOGundanRTO Member Posts: 81
    deltago wrote: »
    GundanRTO wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    So Cohen wasn't the only one to testify today and I was waiting for this testimony to share this entire story even though it broke a couple weeks ago...

    Meanwhile in Canada:

    Former attorney general of Canada, Jody Wilson-Raybould gave damning testimony today to the House of Commons justice committee regarding being pressured to drop or change the charges of a Quebec engineering company called SNC-Lavalin, to the point where she said the Prime Minister (Justin Trudeau) applied pressure himself and removed her from the position of attorney general after she did not go along with it.

    Some back story (sorry for the wall of text):

    In Feb 2015, the RCMP (Canada's FBI) lays corruption and fraud charges against SNC-Lavalin. They allege that the company used bribery to get work in Libya. If convicted, the company would be barred from obtaining Canadian government contracts for 10 years. SNC-Lavalin brings in roughly $9.5 billion yearly, has about 50,000 employees and operates in over 160 countries. It is a Quebec darling.

    October of 2015, Liberals win the federal election with a majority and Justin Trudeau taps Jody Wilson-Raybould to Minister of Justice which also makes her the attorney general.

    After extensive lobbying by SNC-Lavalin, in 2018, the Liberals table budget bill that changes the Criminal Code that allows companies to file a "remediation agreements." Basically, these agreements allow a company to pay a fine, promise good behaviour in the future to prevent criminal conviction. SNC-Lavalin (knowing that Liberals have a majority and the bill will pass regardless) start the process of attempting to get a remediation agreement even though it isn't law.

    The caveat, in September that year, prior to the bill being passed, the Public Prosecution Service denies SNC-Lavalin the chance to negotiate one of these new remediation agreements. As attorney general, Wilson-Raybould could overrule the prosecution services decision and has a conversation with Trudeau regarding the file. This doesn't sit well with Wilson-Raybould as she point blank asks him "is he politically interfering with this case." He says no, and the decision is up to her, he just is attempting to "find a solution" for the company.

    She sticks to her guns, and does not interfere with the Prosecution Office. Obviously SNC-Lavalin does not like the decision and neither does its stock holders as its shares fall nearly 14%.

    In January, Trudeau shuffles his government cabinet positions and moves Wilson-Raybould to Veterans Affairs (seen as a demotion) and appoints Montreal MP David Lametti to Justice.

    Then, on February 7 this year, the Globe and Mail (sadly behind a paywall) wrote an article stating the Wilson-Raybould was pressured by the Prime Minister's office to intervene in the SNC-Lavalin case and her lack of cooperation was the result of her being ousted as Minister of Justice (and as Attorney General of Canada). The Ethics commissioner (seriously US, get one) begins an investigation regarding the claims.

    Liberals go into full damage control over the article. Justin Trudeau gets in front of news cameras on February 11th and basically says everything is fine, I said it was her decision alone in the case, Jody and I still have a wonderful relationship. Her continued presence in cabinet speaks for itself blah blah blah.

    Feb 12, she resigns from cabinet, exploding the story even further and sending Trudeau into damage control saying he is disappointed and doesn't know the reason why she resigned. At the same time Wilson-Raybould releases a statement saying she hired a former supreme court justice to advice her on solicitor-client privilege.


    Feb 13th the liberal led justice committee debates about probing it themselves. They call one closed door meeting to hear from Lametti about the tensions of his or her duties being justice minister as well as attorney general at the same time. Everyone smells a coverup brewing and loudly demand that the government of Canada waive solicitor-client privilege and allow Wilson-Raybould to tell her side of the story.

    On Feb 18th, the Liberals attempt to tap a fall guy Gerald Butts as he resigns from the Prime Ministers Office over the allegations stating his presence is a distraction while also claiming he did nothing wrong.

    The next day, Wilson-Raybould attends a Liberal cabinet meeting which is odd because she resigned. Wilson-Raybould allegedly asked to speak there, however due to cabinet confidentiality what was said was never made public.

    Then on the 25th, after much public backlash, Trudeau waives both cabinet confidentially and solicitor-client privilege for Wilson-Raybould to speak.

    She did so today here are her opening remarks (video):

    For a period of approximately four months between September and December 2018, I experienced a consistent and sustained effort by many people within the government to seek to politically interfere in the exercise of prosecutorial discretion in my role as the Attorney General of Canada in an inappropriate effort to secure a Deferred Prosecution Agreement with SNC-Lavalin. These events involved 11 people (excluding myself and my political staff) – from the Prime Minister’s Office, the Privy Council Office, and the Office of the Minister of Finance. This included in-person conversations, telephone calls, emails, and text messages. There were approximately 10 phone calls and 10 meetings specifically about SNC-Lavalin that I and/or my staff was a part of.

    Within these conversations, there were express statements regarding the necessity for interference in the SNC-Lavalin matter, the potential for consequences, and veiled threats if a DPA was not made available to SNC. These conversations culminated on December 19, 2018, with a phone conversation I had with the Clerk of the Privy Council – a conversation for which I will provide some significant detail.

    A few weeks later, on January 7, 2019, I was informed by the Prime Minister that I was being shuffled out of the role of Minister of Justice and the Attorney General of Canada.


    ~~

    the 10 contacts were in concern of the Quebec provincial elections being held in the fall and how a poor ruling could result in SNC-Lavalin laying off staff in Quebec or even moving out of province which would hurt the Liberals.

    This is obviously very, very bad for the Liberals heading into an election year. This also broke just in time as I wouldn't put it past Lametti to overrule the prosecutions office before this went to trial.


    Messy situation for Trudeau and the Liberals, though not altogether surprising given how the government has handled other situations like the Trans-Mountain Pipeline. In many ways, they haven't really differed from their predecessors.

    That said, in spite of the fact that the government has alienated the right and left, they still stand a good chance of retaining power simply because the current political dynamic skews toward the center in this country.

    The biggest scandal from the conservatives was Duffy being asked to pay back expenses because the optics of the situation looked bad and Duffy refused.

    It was party politics and an attempt to make the story go away by just paying off the alleged debt. I’ll also note that all conservative senators involved were found not guilty after their trial.

    This is attempting to interfere with the justice system by not only passing a law that amounts to bribery but also the applied pressure and removal of the attorney general because she wouldn’t play favouritism with a company that has the Quebec Liberals in their back pocket.

    It’s also very hard now to keep a straight face when talking to the Chinese about detaining the Huawei executive and saying we take the independence of our justice system seriously.

    This is much worse than anything the Harper government was ever accused of doing.

    I’ll also say that I am glad that this story broke when it did because it isn’t a coincidence but that the new justice minister represents Montreal where SNC-Lavalin has their headquarters. He would have interfered but with all the noise can’t now.

    But you’re right. They still hold onto power because the conservatives are leaning too far right (and have their own divisions) and the NDP can’t get their act together.


    Well, Duffy wasn't the only Conservative senator who was haunted by improper expenses. Pamela Wallin and Patrick Brazeau both got into hot water as a result of improper expense claims. Brazeau also had to plead guilty to cocaine possession to get more serious charges of domestic and sexual assault. Of course, one could argue that the Canadian Senate is a largely antiquated institution, badly in need of overhauling or elimination.

    Tony Clement's redirection of G8 funding into farther reaches of his riding, the mishandling of the Omar Khadr case, and their willingness to use robocalls to misdirect voters were all quite notable in their own right. The robo-calls in particular were pretty unsettling since they subverted the democratic process.

    Not exactly a clean record of governing, to say the least.

    That doesn't in any way diminish how serious the mis-handling of SNC-Lavalin. Between that, the Liberal willingness to renege on their promise of working toward proportional representation, and the aforementioned mishandling of the Kinder Morgan pipeline, they haven't acquitted themselves that well in power at all. Full disclosure: I typically vote NDP and did so last election, because I suspected something like this would take place.

    Of course, Scheer's Conservatives lean too far right for my liking and many others; and Jagmeet Singh has proved ineffectual as NDP leader thus far. So, as we both agree, the current landscape is still favorable toward the Liberals retaining power, albeit via reduced majority or perhaps with a minority government.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    Wrestling coach who ignored sexual abuse Republican Jim Jordan is trying to refer Cohen to the Justice department investigate whether he perjured himself. Apparently they got him on saying he didn't want to work in the administration when at some point he might have said he did. Scandal! It totally invalidates everything he said right.

    But anyway, if that's the bar for perjury then I'd love to see them apply that exact standard when Ivanka and Donald Jr. are brought to testify before the House and they testify about their crimes that Cohen helpfully pointed out. Also, the Trump org moneyman that Cohen name dropped several times will be called too.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited February 2019
    It has now been confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jared Kushner COULD not have gotten a security clearance under normal circumstances. He failed it, flat-out, even AFTER being allowed to amend it infinite times. It has now been revealed the only reason he has one is because Trump ordered John Kelly to grant him one. The President does have the right to do this, but nothing remotely like this has ever been done. He bypassed every protocol ever other government official in history has gone through to get his inept son-in-law this status. Now go back and read any of the stories about Kushner's loans from foreign countries since Trump took office, or Ivanka getting granted patents in China days after White House meetings. They are not governing, they are looting the place dry. Anyone who can't see it is just a plain fool:


  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    I don't know that he has the "right to do this".

    He CAN grant security clearances himself. Ordering others to grant clearances for his kids is different no?

    Funny the party soooo concerned about Hillary's emails just throw national security protection in the trash at the first opportunity they get in order to get the Presidents kid, a guy multiple red flags for potential blackmail and corruption, access to top secret national security information.
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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2019
    Wrestling coach who ignored sexual abuse Republican Jim Jordan is trying to refer Cohen to the Justice department investigate whether he perjured himself.

    It's beyond pathetic what Jordan is claiming passes for perjury. Not in a hundred million years could you make a decent perjury case. Jordan is just trying to drive a wedge between Cohen and the SDNY prosecutors ho have him by the balls, maybe piss them off and end up with Cohen doing more time in prison. it's just an attempt to harm Cohen for being disloyal. This is a REAL scumbag move on Jordan's part. Way beyond the Pale.

    And by the way, is this what we do now? Refer Congressional witnesses for prosecution for perjury? Because, there are a few others with FAR more provable cases. Jefferson Beauregard Sessions The Third springs to mind first and foremost...

    Sessions lied to the Senate at least twice. I went over it at length both times it happened. The media reported on it for a day and it disappeared. No one cared, not even here (for the most part). There is at least a VERY good reason to believe that Whitaker lied before the House committee a couple of weeks ago. These men were the last two Attorneys General of the United States. THE top law enforcement officials in the country. Willfully lying before congressional committees.

    And ALL of this, this utter abandonment of even any pretense of morals, convictions or beliefs, from top to bottom is all in service to what is nothing more than one man who wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. This utter devotion and willingness to throw any semblance of integrity to the wind in service of this complete and utter fraud sitting in the Oval Office can only be explained in the context of something like a religious cult.

    They have given themselves over completely to a man who (along with his family) is simply using the office of the Presidency for personal enrichment. There are people who purchased Mar-a-lago memberships being given ambassadorships. His son in law is getting massive loans from foreign countries in the Middle East. His daughter is being granted patents in China. Every single property they are running around the world is a standing invitation to offer bribes and corruption on a daily basis. They have turned the US government into a bottomless slush fund. It's the most absurdly blatant and obvious case of mass corruption in the history of this country, and for some reason it's basically just shrugged off because it's so out in the open. Drain the swamp?? Are the people who say this fucking serious?? It isn't just a swamp, they are swimming around in raw sewage and using the piss and shit as shampoo and conditioner. And THIS is what the entire Republican Party is going to die on a hill for?? A snake-oil salesman who has turned the federal government into a part of his business empire?? Jesus Christ, where the hell does this stop?? How long can this levee hold??
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Sessions lied to the Senate at least twice. I went over it at length both times it happened. The media reported on it for a day and it disappeared. No one cared, not even here (for the most part). There is at least a VERY good reason to believe that Whitaker lied before the House committee a couple of weeks ago. These men were the last two Attorneys General of the United States. THE top law enforcement officials in the country. Willfully lying before congressional committees.

    If we're talking about people you would expect to be above reproach (due to their position in the legal system), but have lied to Congress, then don't forget Kananaugh ...
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    Wrestling coach who ignored sexual abuse Republican Jim Jordan is trying to refer Cohen to the Justice department investigate whether he perjured himself.

    It's beyond pathetic what Jordan is claiming passes for perjury. Not in a hundred million years could you make a decent perjury case. Jordan is just trying to drive a wedge between Cohen and the SDNY prosecutors ho have him by the balls, maybe piss them off and end up with Cohen doing more time in prison. it's just an attempt to harm Cohen for being disloyal. This is a REAL scumbag move on Jordan's part. Way beyond the Pale.

    And by the way, is this what we do now? Refer Congressional witnesses for prosecution for perjury? Because, there are a few others with FAR more provable cases. Jefferson Beauregard Sessions The Third springs to mind first and foremost...

    It's more insidious and vindictive than you think, of course these are republicans they don't do anything without an ulterior motive.

    The message Jordan and Republicans are trying to send is that people who cooperate with Mueller are targets so don't do it. They are trying to send out a warning, mafia style.

    By going hard after Cohen they:
    1) if he's found guilty they can go on on their propaganda tours and say "see he lied about wanting a job, therefore he lied about everything don't worry your favorite president did no collusion!"

    2) Send a message to others that might get in front of the House committees that Republicans will do everything they can to burn you. It's a warning to others.

    But this vindictive approach is extremely short sighted. It's going to backfire hilariously when Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr. have to get up there and testify and Republicans have set the standard so low that they might even tell the truth because the bar is if you told someone you want a job and then you change your mind later and then you don't want a job you committed perjury.

    Love to see them bring back Sessions, Trump Jr., and Kavanaugh. Those guys all lied their asses off under oath.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    I agree it's intended as a warning to others, but it's a rather bizarre thing to do. In the unlikely event that the case makes its way to court, and the even more unlikely event that a conviction is achieved, what will that mean? It's true that Cohen could potentially then get further punishment, but all the claimed false statements are entirely peripheral to the core of his testimony about Trump. Would Trump really want it established in a court that all the testimony about him was true? The entire nature of the defense against Cohen's allegations has been to ignore the specifics and paint him as a liar and the last thing that defense needs is for allegations to be considered in detail by a court ...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2019
    Of course Cohen is a liar. But goes beyond the very height of absurdity for anyone on that committee to sit around and ignore the obvious fact, which is that he was lying FOR Donald Trump!!! For a decade. Nevermind the fact that less than two years ago, the guy was literally the Deputy Finance Chair of the RNC.

    It's impossible to understand what people like Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz are up to unless you willfully allow yourself to spend time in the FOX News/AM radio bubble that the modern GOP is totally in thrall to. If you have immersed yourself in it over the years, everything they are saying makes perfect sense to a very specific group of people. To the uninitiated, it sounds like lunatic gibberish. To those who have studied right-wing media, listening to Jordan or Gaetz is like checking off a list of boxes that you could just as easily do by listening to any single talk radio broadcast in the country, or watching even one hour of FOX News. It's a massively well coordinated propaganda effort that has coalesced in defense of a single person at all costs. Or at a bare minimum, what he represents as a symbol. I harp on this all the time, but people cannot understand what has happened in the last 3 years without doing a deep dive into the evolution of conservative media over the last 30 years. It's a poisonous cesspool that has been pumping pure hate and paranoia into the body politic of the United States 24/7/365 for decades.

    I still cannot fathom how we have discussion about how horrible and "liberal" the media in this country is while neglecting to mention the fact that not only do conservatives dominate the medium of radio, but they have a near TOTAL monopoly on the airwaves when it comes to political matters. It's absurd to pretend something every American who owns a car has free access to every day while driving doesn't have the same kind of impact as cable TV or newspapers, simply by virtue that EVERYONE has one and it doesn't cost a dime to access. And the reason no one (including the so-called liberal mainstream media) doesn't talk about it is simple. If we were to do so, everyone would have to actually confront the fact that the Republican Party has been dictated to by fringe revanchist rhetoric for as long as I can remember. The Republican Party is not represented by the columns of David Brooks and George Will. It is the party of Hannity and Limbaugh. And exhibit A is Lindsey Graham.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited March 2019
    The Republican party and their army of Conservative propagandists are not good faith actors. They are at war with us, meaning with everyone who is not a small minded corrupt greedy right winger. To them we are their enemies or their prey.

    They don't have shame. They don't care about hypocrisy. They live in an alternative reality and their feelings don't care about your facts. They don't care about anything except power and money.

    So they have no problem going out there and blaming blatant election fraud committed by the GOP on Democrats not supporting voter purging. Executivee orders under Democrats bad, executive orders under Republicans good. Rules and norms and deficits are only useful as tools to obstruct others once Republicans are in a position of power they have no use for them despite their previous whining and sermonizing.

    "How are you going to pay for it" only applies to things that benefit others, for tax cuts and corporate welfare (things like fossil fuel subsidies and the military contractors) there's no such consideration.

    There is no bottom. They won't be reasoned with. They know climate change is hurting us all but they don't care because they can make a buck off lying about it.

    Quit giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point. How many times do you let them slap you in the face before you realize maybe they are going to slap you in the face again next time. Recognizing what's happening is the first step to seeing through their rhetoric.
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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Well this is an incredibly stupid defense:


    Setting aside Trump for a moment, there is an actual category of crime that involves NOTHING BUT writing out checks.
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 957
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Well this is an incredibly stupid defense:


    Setting aside Trump for a moment, there is an actual category of crime that involves NOTHING BUT writing out checks.

    Check kiting? Not such a big issue these days since electronic checks cuts the float time down.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited March 2019
    I didn't know Lindsey Graham was such an expert on White Collar crime. Gee he has no law enforcement background..... Hmmmmmmm how could he be so familiar with the ways of criminals? Oh right he's buds with Trump.

    ---

    The judge in the Roger Stone case is wanting to know why Stone is about to violate his gag order, again, with the imminient publishing of a book bashing Mueller and the investigation into Trump crimes. You know writing a book about Trump when you are about to go to jail. You know who should really raise a stink about that?
    The GOP was claiming Cohen, former Republican party finance chair and Trump personal lawyer, was about to do. They'll probably be really upset about Stone doing that right.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2019
    It's hard to even know where to begin with Trump's deranged, marathon speech at CPAC this morning, but I suppose the part that sticks out the most is when he said mothers in the "caravans" are giving their daughters massive amounts of birth control pills because they are worried they are going to be raped by people crossing the southern border.

    Let's even ignore the more obviously heinous part of that statement for a moment, and just focus on the "massive amount" section for a moment. Because the President of the United States seems to think birth control works like Advil, as if the more you take of it, the more effective it is. Anyone who isn't a complete ignoramus knows that birth control is a constant, steady dose over time, not a large amount where you just take 6 of them when you are worried about being raped by phantom immigrants. There is no such thing as a "massive dose" of birth control. Every single packet of birth control pills is METICULOUSLY segmented into every day of the month you need to take it. This country is so goddamn dumb at this point I can hardly handle it anymore.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    A government report has revealed that 11 million taxpayers are losing out on $323 billion worth of deductions due to a punishing change in President Donald Trump’s tax law.

    Democrats need to repeal and replace the GOP tax scam.
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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Anyone who isn't a complete ignoramus knows that birth control is a constant, steady dose over time, not a large amount where you just take 6 of them when you are worried

    1) I guarantee Trump has never bothered to have a conversation with a woman about her birth control regimen. I't's sad and gross to think about, but we know this about the presiodent: he likes to have sex unprotected, and he has a habit of paying large sums of money to the women he has sex with.

    2) OTOH to be fair, the morning-after pill is kind of like taking a large dose of normal birth control pills. Is Trump more knowledgeable about emergency contraception than about prophylactic contraception? Uh, almost certainly. But, again, so goddamn gross that we know that and are talking about it.

    Ok, yes that is technically true. The morning -after pill is a specific kind of birth control that is a high dose. However, it is not a "massive amount" of pills, it is a single pill. And they also cost (at least to my recollection when I bought one) at least $50. So if that is what he was referring to, I'd like to know how Central American mothers who ostensibly have nothing but the clothes on their backs for a trip to the United States are paying for massive quantities of a pill, a single one of which probably costs more than they make in a month in their home country. Moreover, there is no way he would have mentioned the word "morning after pill" at CPAC, because most people attending that conference think the morning after pill is exactly the same as providing an abortion. Beyond that, there are specific warnings on the box of a morning-after pill that explicitly states it ISN'T normal birth control, so it's hard to really call it "control" at all. I'm looking at the description of one on Target.com right now, and it's description even states it's for use after unprotected sex if you DON'T use birth control. So if that's what he had meant, he could have said so. But he didn't.
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    edited March 2019
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    However, it is not a "massive amount" of pills, it is a single pill. And they also cost (at least to my recollection when I bought one) at least $50. So if that is what he was referring to, I'd like to know how Central American mothers who ostensibly have nothing but the clothes on their backs for a trip to the United States are paying for massive quantities of a pill, a single one of which probably costs more than they make in a month in their home country.

    George Soros...

    ...obviously.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    It's the same thing as his claim that people were smuggling tied-up women with tape over their mouths across the border. As I've discussed, human traffickers don't rely on physical restraints; they use language barriers, abuse, psychological terrorism, and indentured servitude to control their victims. He's just making up random stuff off the top of his head, and since he has no idea how human trafficking actually works, or how birth control actually works, his fabrications don't even make sense.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    I have family in the secret service, and it'd be interesting to hear what they think of Trump from a pure, "How hard/easy they make my job" standpoint. They loved Bush jr., who followed every direction they gave for safety to the letter. Clinton was a huge headache, as he apparently NEVER listened and did his own thing. And during the Obama/Kerry season, apparently one of their wives was a nightmare to deal with. I don't recall which one.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    I have family in the secret service, and it'd be interesting to hear what they think of Trump from a pure, "How hard/easy they make my job" standpoint. They loved Bush jr., who followed every direction they gave for safety to the letter. Clinton was a huge headache, as he apparently NEVER listened and did his own thing. And during the Obama/Kerry season, apparently one of their wives was a nightmare to deal with. I don't recall which one.

    I can almost guarantee that would have been Theresa Heinz-Kerry, because if it had been Michelle Obama god knows we would have never heard to end of it for 8 years.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @jjstraka34 I dunno, from my exposure to it, the secret service seems pretty a political (thank God) when it comes to their jobs. Basing their proffesional opinions on how easy/difficult candidates make their jobs.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited March 2019
    Ilhan Omar has been in the news for somethings.

    After she was widely criticized for a tweet about Aipac last month, she deleted it and apologized. In the tweet, she mentioned how American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac) influences American politics to be pro-israel. This is not wrong, it is what they do, they've said as much. It's not anti-semitic but anyway, she apologized. Ms. Omar also mentioned the political influence of the National Rifle Association, fossil fuel industries and “big pharma” being major influences in politics.

    Nancy Pelosi and others demanded she apologize for that and she did. So much for the party having your back lol Republicans willingly cover up crimes but Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats bend over backwards over fake outrage.

    Anyway, Trump and dishonest Republicans ran with "muslim bad anti-semtic" so much since then that they went so far as to make this sign and display it at an event sponsored by the Republican Party of West Virginia linking her with the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

    So she can probably expect an apology right? Since this is much worse Islamaphobia racism than pointing out that a political action committee that funnels millions of dollars to both parties is influencing their decisions.

    Here's the poster:
    fgA7CSP.jpg

    She tweeted:




    But wait, there's more...

    At a Washington bookstore on Wednesday she gave a speech about corruption in US politics again. And one
    sentence garnered attention: “I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is O.K. for people to push for allegiance to a foreign country.”

    Isn't Israel a foreign country? What's wrong with pointing that out? The label 'antisemitic' is being used in bad faith to shut down much needed debate on why we are allowing our politicians to accept millions of dollars from a foreign country and send out billions back to their country.

    Anyway, Rep. Eliot Engel NY-D, the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, called Friday for Ilhan Omar to apologize over that. WTH guys. Israel is a foreign country? This is ridiculous. This happened before the West Virginia Republican racist sign controversy.



    So what's it mean? I guess you can't be an female American muslim and be in politics right. You expect Republicans to be racist and operate in bad faith but to get this from Democrats too is beyond ridiculous.
    This is something really wrong what is happening to her.

    And she's goddamned right. Money in politics is corruption. That is what she's talking about. Maybe centrist democrats don't want to here that and would rather go along with racist corrupted republicans and destroy a young woman's career.


  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    While I respect their freedom of expression they should be called out for an advert which clearly exposes this woman to violence. I'm not saying it should be illegal, I'm saying it should be ostracized.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    FinneousPJ wrote: »
    While I respect their freedom of expression they should be called out for an advert which clearly exposes this woman to violence. I'm not saying it should be illegal, I'm saying it should be ostracized.

    Speaking of freedom of expression, Trump says he has someone writing an executive order for him to guarantee free speech campus. Sounds good right except here's the motive:. he has enemies: women, Muslims, law enforcement, the judiciary, Mexicans, liberals, Democrats, the press, "liberal universities", the educated and so on. He's always talking about his so called enemies.

    His support for this is a rallying call to his base to attack his enemies. It's an arrow for a riled up white supremacist group or provocateur to target students again. He signs the stupid EO. They take the message to go harass people on colleges under the guise of "free speech".

    Freedom of religion and Free Speech has become code for bigotry and violence especially under Trump. The freedom of religion laws are all seemingly made to allow discrimination in the name of religion and this free speech on college means pushing white supremacy hate speech on college and attacking others.

    We are in fascist territory folks.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    There's an article in the Times about moderating a comment section on a "right wing" website and it sounds pretty grim. I've heard similar things about moderating comments on Facebook and all the horrific things (including videos of murders and stuff, somehow) that need to be deleted. It makes me appreciate moderating a decent forum. My role here can be difficult, but it reaffirms my faith in humanity far more often than it challenges it.
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