Watching Bernie supporters on twitter (and here, to an extent) act like Elizabeth Warren is some sort of Republican/DNC/Satanic plant is disgusting.
Y'all need Jesus. Or a multiparty system. Or a understanding of how your own system works. Or maybe just the realisation that you can disagree with someone on something and not automatically assume their existence is the culmination of a sinister plot. Cripes, the very idea that Warren would deliberately try to get Biden the nomination over Sanders is absurd on its face.
Lefties and righties both: stop assuming the reason your candidate didn't win/do as well as expected is because of another candidate. You're usually wrong when the numbers come out (Bush loses in 92 even if Ross Perot wasn't there, for an oldie but goodie), it breeds pointless bad feelings, and it feed dumb conspiracy theories.
Any progressive who doesn't think both Sanders and Warren are generally good people fighting the good fight is deeply ignorant of their backgrounds and accomplishments (and political positions, which are very similar). Your opinion on what she should do about her presidential bid is just that, and most people's opinions in this thread and elsewhere on what was going to transpire in these primaries have turned out to be spectacularly wrong on one or more occasions - maybe we should count up how many people said Biden's campaign was dead in the water?
But don't think this is limited to the leftiest progressives either - Biden supporters were already preemptively whining about Bloomberg before the votes came in too. It's bad logic, bad understanding of the process, bad understanding of what the whole point of election campaigns is (if you cannot draw enough support from the other candidates to win, that is a flaw as a political candidate), and corrosively bad for the democratic process.
You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to see what's happening here. Sorry, but the fix is in. Call it what you want but it's pretty obvious what's going on. Rich Democrats got scared when it looked like it might actually cost them something to practice what they preach. They want to 'look' like they give a shit when they don't give a flying fuck about real people. Sorry but it's true. At least the Republican Party fights for what they believe in. They even fight dirty when they have to. That's exactly why they're going to beat Biden. Mark my words...
If Biden is the nominee then then the race is absolutely nothing but a referendum on Trump's character and literally NOTHING else. Is that enough?? To assume Biden can succeed where Hillary failed seems to be betting that the only problem was misogyny, because policy-wise they might as well be clones. That COULD be true. But frankly, no one knows who the better candidate in the general would be with any certainty.
Biden's less of a hawk than Hillary, and is less interested in childcare (to name two differences), so no, they aren't clones.
And every election with an incumbent is a referendum on the incumbent. That is already very different than 2016, where there was no incumbent.
If Biden is the nominee then then the race is absolutely nothing but a referendum on Trump's character and literally NOTHING else. Is that enough?? To assume Biden can succeed where Hillary failed seems to be betting that the only problem was misogyny, because policy-wise they might as well be clones. That COULD be true. But frankly, no one knows who the better candidate in the general would be with any certainty.
Biden's less of a hawk than Hillary, and is less interested in childcare (to name two differences), so no, they aren't clones.
And every election with an incumbent is a referendum on the incumbent. That is already very different than 2016, where there was no incumbent.
Yeah, but childcare is a winning strategy. So is Medicare for all. What the Hell is Biden's strategy? Orange man bad? Good luck with that...
Right now, Biden is 4% ahead of Sanders in Texas with 82% of precincts reporting--remember that the westernmost counties are Mountain time, so they are open a hour later than the rest of the State. Still, that is surprising--I had been saying for two weeks now that Sanders would win the primary in Texas--looks like I lost that bet. Anyway, Biden not only won today but he won the whole game--when they go to their brokered convention in Milwaukee the superdelegates will nominate Biden on the second ballot (no one will have a majority on the first ballot, which releases all delegates and activates the superdelegates). The big question now is: will Sanders supporters vote for Biden in November?
Biden's strategy up until now was "don't lose". Now he has to cement an actual platform and choose a running mate.
They would have to be charged with something first. Still, he would be within his Constitutional rights to issue those pardons, should they be needed. I don't see a problem with it.
You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to see what's happening here. Sorry, but the fix is in. Call it what you want but it's pretty obvious what's going on. Rich Democrats got scared when it looked like it might actually cost them something to practice what they preach. They want to 'look' like they give a shit when they don't give a flying fuck about real people. Sorry but it's true. At least the Republican Party fights for what they believe in. They even fight dirty when they have to. That's exactly why they're going to beat Biden. Mark my words...
Okay, there's two things to address here, so I'll do them separately.
1) It is not a fix. It is not a sinister conspiracy that senior figures in the Democratic party are unenthusiastic about the candidacy of an independent Senator who has largely been running against them for two election cycles. It is not a sinister conspiracy to pressure two candidates that had little hope of winning the nomination to drop out and endorse the stronger candidate. None of this is not normal or not to be expected.
And hell, how can you say it is a "fix" and then turn around and say Republicans fight dirty and that's why they're going to beat Biden? Shouldn't it be that Biden fights dirty and that's why he'll win?
2) What precisely does the Republican party believe in that they fight for? It sure isn't banning abortion, or even getting rid of the ACA. They have come around to largely supporting Trump even though he tossed many of their previous axiomatic beliefs (like free trade) in the trash. They're a big tent party pulled every which way by its various constituencies, just like Democrats. That is an inevitable result (for better or worse) of having a two-party system.
Yeah, but childcare is a winning strategy. So is Medicare for all. What the Hell is Biden's strategy? Orange man bad? Good luck with that...
Biden's strategy is largely centred around a) being a continuation of the Obama presidency, which is vastly more popular than the Trump presidency, and b) his ability to pull together different factions towards shared goals, which was just bolstered by his Super Tuesday performance.
If Biden is the nominee then then the race is absolutely nothing but a referendum on Trump's character and literally NOTHING else. Is that enough?? To assume Biden can succeed where Hillary failed seems to be betting that the only problem was misogyny, because policy-wise they might as well be clones. That COULD be true. But frankly, no one knows who the better candidate in the general would be with any certainty.
Biden's less of a hawk than Hillary, and is less interested in childcare (to name two differences), so no, they aren't clones.
And every election with an incumbent is a referendum on the incumbent. That is already very different than 2016, where there was no incumbent.
His Iraq War positions are just as bad as Hillary's were at the time, and if people don't know about them now, they will know about them soon. 95% of the blame is still on the Bush Administration for lying about the entire thing, but there were those of us who didn't buy the lies at the time, and nearly everyone in Congress was too chickenshit to stand up to the propaganda in the wake of 9/11, aside from a couple people. Obama was fortunate in that he wasn't yet IN the Senate when the vote took place, so his anti-Iraq War position was plausible. But no, he is no less of a hawk. And I'm not sure saying what "he's less interested in childcare" really means because as far as I can tell Joe Biden isn't pushing any policy whatsoever. His stump speech tonight consisted mostly of listing off as many blue collar professions as rapidly as possible and then appealing for the fever to break.
Watching Bernie supporters on twitter (and here, to an extent) act like Elizabeth Warren is some sort of Republican/DNC/Satanic plant is disgusting.
Y'all need Jesus. Or a multiparty system. Or a understanding of how your own system works. Or maybe just the realisation that you can disagree with someone on something and not automatically assume their existence is the culmination of a sinister plot. Cripes, the very idea that Warren would deliberately try to get Biden the nomination over Sanders is absurd on its face.
Lefties and righties both: stop assuming the reason your candidate didn't win/do as well as expected is because of another candidate. You're usually wrong when the numbers come out (Bush loses in 92 even if Ross Perot wasn't there, for an oldie but goodie), it breeds pointless bad feelings, and it feed dumb conspiracy theories.
Any progressive who doesn't think both Sanders and Warren are generally good people fighting the good fight is deeply ignorant of their backgrounds and accomplishments (and political positions, which are very similar). Your opinion on what she should do about her presidential bid is just that, and most people's opinions in this thread and elsewhere on what was going to transpire in these primaries have turned out to be spectacularly wrong on one or more occasions - maybe we should count up how many people said Biden's campaign was dead in the water?
But don't think this is limited to the leftiest progressives either - Biden supporters were already preemptively whining about Bloomberg before the votes came in too. It's bad logic, bad understanding of the process, bad understanding of what the whole point of election campaigns is (if you cannot draw enough support from the other candidates to win, that is a flaw as a political candidate), and corrosively bad for the democratic process.
You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to see what's happening here. Sorry, but the fix is in. Call it what you want but it's pretty obvious what's going on. Rich Democrats got scared when it looked like it might actually cost them something to practice what they preach. They want to 'look' like they give a shit when they don't give a flying fuck about real people. Sorry but it's true. At least the Republican Party fights for what they believe in. They even fight dirty when they have to. That's exactly why they're going to beat Biden. Mark my words...
Ok, but rich Democratic donors can't cast 3+ million votes. To say it was "fixed" is just not true. Buttigieg and Klobuchar shifting their support to Biden is not "rigging" an election. It's forming a political alliance. There is a HUGE difference. You are inferring that what happened tonight wasn't a legitimate result. I don't LIKE the result, at all. There is no evidence anything nefarious took place, and I daresay no one is even suggesting that is the case.
You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to see what's happening here. Sorry, but the fix is in. Call it what you want but it's pretty obvious what's going on. Rich Democrats got scared when it looked like it might actually cost them something to practice what they preach. They want to 'look' like they give a shit when they don't give a flying fuck about real people. Sorry but it's true. At least the Republican Party fights for what they believe in. They even fight dirty when they have to. That's exactly why they're going to beat Biden. Mark my words...
Okay, there's two things to address here, so I'll do them separately.
1) It is not a fix. It is not a sinister conspiracy that senior figures in the Democratic party are unenthusiastic about the candidacy of an independent Senator who has largely been running against them for two election cycles. It is not a sinister conspiracy to pressure two candidates that had little hope of winning the nomination to drop out and endorse the stronger candidate. None of this is not normal or not to be expected.
And hell, how can you say it is a "fix" and then turn around and say Republicans fight dirty and that's why they're going to beat Biden? Shouldn't it be that Biden fights dirty and that's why he'll win?
2) What precisely does the Republican party believe in that they fight for? It sure isn't banning abortion, or even getting rid of the ACA. They have come around to largely supporting Trump even though he tossed many of their previous axiomatic beliefs (like free trade) in the trash. They're a big tent party pulled every which way by its various constituencies, just like Democrats. That is an inevitable result (for better or worse) of having a two-party system.
Biden won't fight dirty. He's the antithesis of fighting dirty. He won't do it because he isn't passionate about anything that I can see. He's the establishment personified. Stay the course, thousand points of light, blah, blah, blah...
And I'm not sure saying what "he's less interested in childcare" really means because as far as I can tell Joe Biden isn't pushing an policy whatsoever.
Hillary Clinton has been pushing for better childcare in America for her entire political life, and if you don't know that, you don't know much about her political positions and career.
Clinton and Bernie Sanders had near-identical voting records in the Senate - so are they clones, too?
Or maybe, just maybe, reductive statements like that that deny both Biden and Clinton individuality are both inaccurate and feeding into the overwhelming sense of grievance that is more dangerous to American politics than a dozen Trumps.
Biden won't fight dirty. He's the antithesis of fighting dirty. He won't do it because he isn't passionate about anything that I can see. He's the establishment personified. Stay the course, thousand points of light, blah, blah, blah...
Thousand points of light was George W Bush, who Biden probably got along with very well.
Yeah I just don't get how anyone can be excited over Biden but here we are. Texas and CA aren't done right so it ain't over but yeah the 'moderates' and elderly black voters in the south feel like Joe Biden is their guy for some inexplicable reason.
Watching Bernie supporters on twitter (and here, to an extent) act like Elizabeth Warren is some sort of Republican/DNC/Satanic plant is disgusting.
Y'all need Jesus. Or a multiparty system. Or a understanding of how your own system works. Or maybe just the realisation that you can disagree with someone on something and not automatically assume their existence is the culmination of a sinister plot. Cripes, the very idea that Warren would deliberately try to get Biden the nomination over Sanders is absurd on its face.
Lefties and righties both: stop assuming the reason your candidate didn't win/do as well as expected is because of another candidate. You're usually wrong when the numbers come out (Bush loses in 92 even if Ross Perot wasn't there, for an oldie but goodie), it breeds pointless bad feelings, and it feed dumb conspiracy theories.
Any progressive who doesn't think both Sanders and Warren are generally good people fighting the good fight is deeply ignorant of their backgrounds and accomplishments (and political positions, which are very similar). Your opinion on what she should do about her presidential bid is just that, and most people's opinions in this thread and elsewhere on what was going to transpire in these primaries have turned out to be spectacularly wrong on one or more occasions - maybe we should count up how many people said Biden's campaign was dead in the water?
But don't think this is limited to the leftiest progressives either - Biden supporters were already preemptively whining about Bloomberg before the votes came in too. It's bad logic, bad understanding of the process, bad understanding of what the whole point of election campaigns is (if you cannot draw enough support from the other candidates to win, that is a flaw as a political candidate), and corrosively bad for the democratic process.
You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to see what's happening here. Sorry,blah...Trumpis in. Call it what you want but it's pretty obvious what's going on. Rich Democrats got scared when it looked like it might actually cost them something to practice what they preach. They want to 'look' like they give a shit when they don't give a flying fuck about real people. Sorry but it's true. At least the Republican Party fights for what they believe in. They even fight dirty when they have to. That's exactly why they're going to beat Biden. Mark my words...
Ok, but rich Democratic donors can't cast 3+ million votes. To say it was "fixed" is just not true. Buttigieg and Klobuchar shifting their support to Biden is not "rigging" an election. It's forming a political alliance. There is a HUGE difference. You are inferring that what happened tonight wasn't a legitimate result. I don't LIKE the result, at all. There is no evidence anything nefarious took place, and I daresay no one is even suggesting that is the case.
The media is a large part of the Democratic establishment. I watch CNN. They were absolutely terrified of Sanders. Rich Democrats are in positions of power in our media and they are a large part in driving the perception of what's going on. Biden was dead in the water until South Carolina, but somehow he's resurrected into the Savior? I call bullshit. Nothing changed except the media preaching that Bernie is 'unelectable' and South Carolina (a state that the Democrats have 0% chance of winning in November) was some kind of Biden referendum.
Biden won't fight dirty. He's the antithesis of fighting dirty. He won't do it because he isn't passionate about anything that I can see. He's the establishment personified. Stay the course, thousand points of light, blah, blah, blah...
If he won't fight dirty, then how was there a fix?
If Democrats fought dirty on his behalf once, surely they can do so in the general election as well.
If he isn't passionate about anything, why is he running for President? Why didn't he just drop out after Iowa? Why has he spent a life in politics?
And I'm not sure saying what "he's less interested in childcare" really means because as far as I can tell Joe Biden isn't pushing an policy whatsoever.
Hillary Clinton has been pushing for better childcare in America for her entire political life, and if you don't know that, you don't know much about her political positions and career.
Clinton and Bernie Sanders had near-identical voting records in the Senate - so are they clones, too?
Or maybe, just maybe, reductive statements like that that deny both Biden and Clinton individuality are both inaccurate and feeding into the overwhelming sense of grievance that is more dangerous to American politics than a dozen Trumps.
Ok, well that's wonderful since I never said anything about Hillary not being hawkish or CERTAINLY not that she wasn't interested in childcare. My first comment was meant to demonstrate that the main vote that sunk Hillary in 2008 against Obama was ALSO taken by Biden, and the second point about him being "less interested in childcare" was meant to illustrate that Biden is running a campaign that is completely devoid of any policy proposals whatsoever and is wholly focused on the idea that people will reject Trump's personal behavior for someone who is more cordial.
We are talking about perception here. When we are talking about Biden and Hillary being clones, we are talking about the Democrats again (likely) nominating someone who has been in the upper echelons of the party apparatus for 30+ years who are banking on the idea that telling people that Trump is a horrible person is enough to win. I mean, yeah, he is, but this was ALREADY tried and it didn't work. And it would be one thing if there was a single scintilla of evidence that Biden's campaign is anything but that. But it isn't. In fact, it is doubling and tripling down on it. And again, MAYBE that works. But if it doesn't?? Good luck getting any of those disaffected voters back before they are old enough to cash Social Security checks.
Yeah I just don't get how anyone can be excited over Biden but here we are. Texas and CA aren't done right so it ain't over but yeah the 'moderates' and elderly black voters in the south feel like Joe Biden is their guy for some inexplicable reason.
Lots of liberals voted for Biden too. They don't vanish just because more of them voted for Sanders (and the same goes for moderates and older black people who voted for Sanders, for that matter).
Also, why settle for "inexplicable reason"? If large numbers of people vote for someone and you don't understand why, why not... try to find out why? Wouldn't that be more satisfying? It's not as if nothing's been written on say, the subject of why Biden has had considerable backing from black voters for the entirety of the campaign.
Biden won't fight dirty. He's the antithesis of fighting dirty. He won't do it because he isn't passionate about anything that I can see. He's the establishment personified. Stay the course, thousand points of light, blah, blah, blah...
Why has he spent a life in politics?
I'm pretty Goddamned sure he made more money in politics than he would have working a 9-5 job like me. Just saying. These people aren't Saints because they're career politicians. More likely the opposite if you ask me...
Yeah I just don't get how anyone can be excited over Biden but here we are. Texas and CA aren't done right so it ain't over but yeah the 'moderates' and elderly black voters in the south feel like Joe Biden is their guy for some inexplicable reason.
Lots of liberals voted for Biden too. They don't vanish just because more of them voted for Sanders (and the same goes for moderates and older black people who voted for Sanders, for that matter).
Also, why settle for "inexplicable reason"? If large numbers of people vote for someone and you don't understand why, why not... try to find out why? Wouldn't that be more satisfying? It's not as if nothing's been written on say, the subject of why Biden has had considerable backing from black voters for the entirety of the campaign.
1.) Barack Obama
2.) Barack Obama
3.) Jim Clyburn
4.) Barack Obama
5.) African-American voters (especially older ones) don't have time for a "revolution". They've been too busy spending their lives trying to survive in a country that is openly hostile to their existence. They view Biden as a better bet to take out someone they view as an existential threat to them, and I doubt his policies matter one iota. However, it also remains a fact that Joe Biden is NOT Barack Obama, just as Hillary Clinton was not Bill Clinton.
Watching Bernie supporters on twitter (and here, to an extent) act like Elizabeth Warren is some sort of Republican/DNC/Satanic plant is disgusting.
Y'all need Jesus. Or a multiparty system. Or a understanding of how your own system works. Or maybe just the realisation that you can disagree with someone on something and not automatically assume their existence is the culmination of a sinister plot. Cripes, the very idea that Warren would deliberately try to get Biden the nomination over Sanders is absurd on its face.
Lefties and righties both: stop assuming the reason your candidate didn't win/do as well as expected is because of another candidate. You're usually wrong when the numbers come out (Bush loses in 92 even if Ross Perot wasn't there, for an oldie but goodie), it breeds pointless bad feelings, and it feed dumb conspiracy theories.
Any progressive who doesn't think both Sanders and Warren are generally good people fighting the good fight is deeply ignorant of their backgrounds and accomplishments (and political positions, which are very similar). Your opinion on what she should do about her presidential bid is just that, and most people's opinions in this thread and elsewhere on what was going to transpire in these primaries have turned out to be spectacularly wrong on one or more occasions - maybe we should count up how many people said Biden's campaign was dead in the water?
But don't think this is limited to the leftiest progressives either - Biden supporters were already preemptively whining about Bloomberg before the votes came in too. It's bad logic, bad understanding of the process, bad understanding of what the whole point of election campaigns is (if you cannot draw enough support from the other candidates to win, that is a flaw as a political candidate), and corrosively bad for the democratic process.
You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to see what's happening here. Sorry, but the fix is in. Call it what you want but it's pretty obvious what's going on. Rich Democrats got scared when it looked like it might actually cost them something to practice what they preach. They want to 'look' like they give a shit when they don't give a flying fuck about real people. Sorry but it's true. At least the Republican Party fights for what they believe in. They even fight dirty when they have to. That's exactly why they're going to beat Biden. Mark my words...
You have to be dangerously naive to think that any politician is too moral and righteous for basic political strategy.
Fine, why would anyone vote for Biden? What is his policy on anything? He's worthless. I mean he's better than Trump but that bar is so low a child could step over it. He's stuck in the 1950s in his brain.
Netanyahu got a lot of votes in Israel too. What the hell is wrong with people lol? He's obviously corrupt. He's obviously committed crimes. And people are like, good enough he's got my vote!
People voted for Brexit like a bunch of dummies too.
Got me why. There's no sane reason people the world over keep voting against their interests to make things worse.
Ok, well that's wonderful since I never said anything about Hillary not being hawkish or CERTAINLY not that she wasn't interested in childcare.
You said Biden was as much a hawk as Hillary, basing it entirely on their Iraq War votes. You were wrong.
You said they were clones "policy-wise". I stated you were wrong on both hawkishness and childcare. Both of those things are "policy". I could list many other policy matters on which Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton differ.
Claiming their policy viewpoints have nothing to do with you saying, and I quote, "policy-wise they might as well be clones" is absurd.
We are talking about perception here. When we are talking about Biden and Hillary being clones, we are talking about the Democrats again (likely) nominating someone who has been in the upper echelons of the party apparatus for 30+ years who are banking on the idea that telling people that Trump is a horrible person is enough to win.
To assume Biden can succeed where Hillary failed seems to be betting that the only problem was misogyny, because policy-wise they might as well be clones.
Was their clone-ness due to policy, or due to perception? I guess maybe that's what you mean when you otherwise start saying what "we" are saying as if you're more than one person with one person's opinion.
I mean, yeah, he is, but this was ALREADY tried and it didn't work. And it would be one thing if there was a single scintilla of evidence that Biden's campaign is anything but that. But it isn't. In fact, it is doubling and tripling down on it. And again, MAYBE that works. But if it doesn't?? Good luck getting any of those disaffected voters back before they are old enough to cash Social Security checks.
Joe Biden's not even the nominee yet, so definitively talking about what his presidential campaign is or isn't about is kind of premature.
Yeah I just don't get how anyone can be excited over Biden but here we are. Texas and CA aren't done right so it ain't over but yeah the 'moderates' and elderly black voters in the south feel like Joe Biden is their guy for some inexplicable reason.
Lots of liberals voted for Biden too. They don't vanish just because more of them voted for Sanders (and the same goes for moderates and older black people who voted for Sanders, for that matter).
Also, why settle for "inexplicable reason"? If large numbers of people vote for someone and you don't understand why, why not... try to find out why? Wouldn't that be more satisfying? It's not as if nothing's been written on say, the subject of why Biden has had considerable backing from black voters for the entirety of the campaign.
1.) Barack Obama
2.) Barack Obama
3.) Jim Clyburn
4.) Barack Obama
5.) African-American voters (especially older ones) don't have time for a "revolution". They've been too busy spending their lives trying to survive in a country that is openly hostile to their existence. They view Biden as a better bet to take out someone they view as an existential threat to them, and I doubt his policies matter one iota.
Bernie would make better education vastly more affordable for people of color than Biden ever will. So would free, or at least more affordable childcare. Education is the key to getting out of the economic situation they're in.
Unfortunately, educating people or otherwise helping them care for their kids carries the risk of maybe having them not towing the party line when they actually realize they now have something to lose once the cycle of poverty is broken. Promises of future change while never delivering is a much surer bet...
I'm pretty Goddamned sure he made more money in politics than he would have working a 9-5 job like me. Just saying. These people aren't Saints because they're career politicians. More likely the opposite if you ask me...
And I'm pretty goddamned sure he'd have made a lot more money in business or as a lobbyist than as a politician, and I could produce real numbers to back that up.
Millionaires getting into politics is a problem in America, but politics making millionaires, not so much. Scorn career politicians all you like, but it isn't a job for those in it just for the money.
Watching Bernie supporters on twitter (and here, to an extent) act like Elizabeth Warren is some sort of Republican/DNC/Satanic plant is disgusting.
Y'all need Jesus. Or a multiparty system. Or a understanding of how your own system works. Or maybe just the realisation that you can disagree with someone on something and not automatically assume their existence is the culmination of a sinister plot. Cripes, the very idea that Warren would deliberately try to get Biden the nomination over Sanders is absurd on its face.
Lefties and righties both: stop assuming the reason your candidate didn't win/do as well as expected is because of another candidate. You're usually wrong when the numbers come out (Bush loses in 92 even if Ross Perot wasn't there, for an oldie but goodie), it breeds pointless bad feelings, and it feed dumb conspiracy theories.
Any progressive who doesn't think both Sanders and Warren are generally good people fighting the good fight is deeply ignorant of their backgrounds and accomplishments (and political positions, which are very similar). Your opinion on what she should do about her presidential bid is just that, and most people's opinions in this thread and elsewhere on what was going to transpire in these primaries have turned out to be spectacularly wrong on one or more occasions - maybe we should count up how many people said Biden's campaign was dead in the water?
But don't think this is limited to the leftiest progressives either - Biden supporters were already preemptively whining about Bloomberg before the votes came in too. It's bad logic, bad understanding of the process, bad understanding of what the whole point of election campaigns is (if you cannot draw enough support from the other candidates to win, that is a flaw as a political candidate), and corrosively bad for the democratic process.
You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to see what's happening here. Sorry, but the fix is in. Call it what you want but it's pretty obvious what's going on. Rich Democrats got scared when it looked like it might actually cost them something to practice what they preach. They want to 'look' like they give a shit when they don't give a flying fuck about real people. Sorry but it's true. At least the Republican Party fights for what they believe in. They even fight dirty when they have to. That's exactly why they're going to beat Biden. Mark my words...
You have to be dangerously naive to think that any politician is too moral and righteous for basic political strategy.
Biden is old and stuck in his ways. He's righteous in his own mind, and that's all that matters. Morality is in the eye of the beholder, so that's not really an issue. Is it moral to not fight for what you believe in because you might make waves? Some would say yes, I wouldn't. This is the Democrats chance to make a big move and prove that they mean what they've been preaching for decades. It looks to me like they're underplaying their hand because they're scared. Playing scared is how you lose...
Fine, why would anyone vote for Biden? What is his policy on anything? He's worthless. I mean he's better than Trump but that bar is so low a child could step over it. He's stuck in the 1950s in his brain.
Got me why. There's no sane reason people the world over keep voting against their interests to make things worse.
I get that you don't know why.
What I don't get is why you don't seem to care about finding out, why you would seemingly just rather dismiss people (even people voting on "your side") as stupid or evil instead of trying to understand where they're coming from.
Especially since the guy you support rather publically didn't do that even when they didn't vote for him.
@MaleficentOne Bernie's political agenda is, at it's absolute MOST extreme, looking to make the United States more like Scandinavia. So unless Denmark is currently on the verge of devolving into a communist dictatorship, I'm not sure what we're talking about here. Vast swaths of Europe are democratic socialist governments and consistently, year after year in surveys, voted as having the happiest citizens on Earth. Norway, the Netherlands and Denmark are in the top-10 almost every single year.
I'm pretty Goddamned sure he made more money in politics than he would have working a 9-5 job like me. Just saying. These people aren't Saints because they're career politicians. More likely the opposite if you ask me...
And I'm pretty goddamned sure he'd have made a lot more money in business or as a lobbyist than as a politician, and I could produce real numbers to back that up.
Millionaires getting into politics is a problem in America, but politics making millionaires, not so much. Scorn career politicians all you like, but it isn't a job for those in it just for the money.
Yeah, ok. You keep believing that. Biden doesn't strike me as CEO material. Even Bernie is a millionaire now and he's railing against millionares. Even one term representatives get a nice pension that nobody in the less than 1 percenters will ever get.
@MaleficentOne Bernie's political agenda is, at it's absolute MOST extreme, looking to make the United States more like Scandinavia. So unless Denmark is currently on the verge of devolving into a communist dictatorship, I'm not sure what we're talking about here. Vast swaths of Europe are democratic socialist governments and consistently, year after year in surveys, voted as having the happiest citizens on Earth. Norway, the Netherlands and Denmark are in the top-10 almost every single year.
Don't worry, Erdogan is going to fix those Heathens.
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You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to see what's happening here. Sorry, but the fix is in. Call it what you want but it's pretty obvious what's going on. Rich Democrats got scared when it looked like it might actually cost them something to practice what they preach. They want to 'look' like they give a shit when they don't give a flying fuck about real people. Sorry but it's true. At least the Republican Party fights for what they believe in. They even fight dirty when they have to. That's exactly why they're going to beat Biden. Mark my words...
Biden's less of a hawk than Hillary, and is less interested in childcare (to name two differences), so no, they aren't clones.
And every election with an incumbent is a referendum on the incumbent. That is already very different than 2016, where there was no incumbent.
Yeah, but childcare is a winning strategy. So is Medicare for all. What the Hell is Biden's strategy? Orange man bad? Good luck with that...
Biden's strategy up until now was "don't lose". Now he has to cement an actual platform and choose a running mate.
They would have to be charged with something first. Still, he would be within his Constitutional rights to issue those pardons, should they be needed. I don't see a problem with it.
Okay, there's two things to address here, so I'll do them separately.
1) It is not a fix. It is not a sinister conspiracy that senior figures in the Democratic party are unenthusiastic about the candidacy of an independent Senator who has largely been running against them for two election cycles. It is not a sinister conspiracy to pressure two candidates that had little hope of winning the nomination to drop out and endorse the stronger candidate. None of this is not normal or not to be expected.
And hell, how can you say it is a "fix" and then turn around and say Republicans fight dirty and that's why they're going to beat Biden? Shouldn't it be that Biden fights dirty and that's why he'll win?
2) What precisely does the Republican party believe in that they fight for? It sure isn't banning abortion, or even getting rid of the ACA. They have come around to largely supporting Trump even though he tossed many of their previous axiomatic beliefs (like free trade) in the trash. They're a big tent party pulled every which way by its various constituencies, just like Democrats. That is an inevitable result (for better or worse) of having a two-party system.
Biden's strategy is largely centred around a) being a continuation of the Obama presidency, which is vastly more popular than the Trump presidency, and b) his ability to pull together different factions towards shared goals, which was just bolstered by his Super Tuesday performance.
His Iraq War positions are just as bad as Hillary's were at the time, and if people don't know about them now, they will know about them soon. 95% of the blame is still on the Bush Administration for lying about the entire thing, but there were those of us who didn't buy the lies at the time, and nearly everyone in Congress was too chickenshit to stand up to the propaganda in the wake of 9/11, aside from a couple people. Obama was fortunate in that he wasn't yet IN the Senate when the vote took place, so his anti-Iraq War position was plausible. But no, he is no less of a hawk. And I'm not sure saying what "he's less interested in childcare" really means because as far as I can tell Joe Biden isn't pushing any policy whatsoever. His stump speech tonight consisted mostly of listing off as many blue collar professions as rapidly as possible and then appealing for the fever to break.
No but it will crush all the stupid attempts at investigations, over nothing, by Republicans wont it. They'll have to invent some new outrage, aw.
Ok, but rich Democratic donors can't cast 3+ million votes. To say it was "fixed" is just not true. Buttigieg and Klobuchar shifting their support to Biden is not "rigging" an election. It's forming a political alliance. There is a HUGE difference. You are inferring that what happened tonight wasn't a legitimate result. I don't LIKE the result, at all. There is no evidence anything nefarious took place, and I daresay no one is even suggesting that is the case.
Biden won't fight dirty. He's the antithesis of fighting dirty. He won't do it because he isn't passionate about anything that I can see. He's the establishment personified. Stay the course, thousand points of light, blah, blah, blah...
Hillary Clinton was infamously hawkish and if you don't know that, you don't know much about her political positions and career.
Hillary Clinton has been pushing for better childcare in America for her entire political life, and if you don't know that, you don't know much about her political positions and career.
Clinton and Bernie Sanders had near-identical voting records in the Senate - so are they clones, too?
Or maybe, just maybe, reductive statements like that that deny both Biden and Clinton individuality are both inaccurate and feeding into the overwhelming sense of grievance that is more dangerous to American politics than a dozen Trumps.
Thousand points of light was George W Bush, who Biden probably got along with very well.
Yeah I just don't get how anyone can be excited over Biden but here we are. Texas and CA aren't done right so it ain't over but yeah the 'moderates' and elderly black voters in the south feel like Joe Biden is their guy for some inexplicable reason.
The media is a large part of the Democratic establishment. I watch CNN. They were absolutely terrified of Sanders. Rich Democrats are in positions of power in our media and they are a large part in driving the perception of what's going on. Biden was dead in the water until South Carolina, but somehow he's resurrected into the Savior? I call bullshit. Nothing changed except the media preaching that Bernie is 'unelectable' and South Carolina (a state that the Democrats have 0% chance of winning in November) was some kind of Biden referendum.
If he won't fight dirty, then how was there a fix?
If Democrats fought dirty on his behalf once, surely they can do so in the general election as well.
If he isn't passionate about anything, why is he running for President? Why didn't he just drop out after Iowa? Why has he spent a life in politics?
Ok, well that's wonderful since I never said anything about Hillary not being hawkish or CERTAINLY not that she wasn't interested in childcare. My first comment was meant to demonstrate that the main vote that sunk Hillary in 2008 against Obama was ALSO taken by Biden, and the second point about him being "less interested in childcare" was meant to illustrate that Biden is running a campaign that is completely devoid of any policy proposals whatsoever and is wholly focused on the idea that people will reject Trump's personal behavior for someone who is more cordial.
We are talking about perception here. When we are talking about Biden and Hillary being clones, we are talking about the Democrats again (likely) nominating someone who has been in the upper echelons of the party apparatus for 30+ years who are banking on the idea that telling people that Trump is a horrible person is enough to win. I mean, yeah, he is, but this was ALREADY tried and it didn't work. And it would be one thing if there was a single scintilla of evidence that Biden's campaign is anything but that. But it isn't. In fact, it is doubling and tripling down on it. And again, MAYBE that works. But if it doesn't?? Good luck getting any of those disaffected voters back before they are old enough to cash Social Security checks.
Lots of liberals voted for Biden too. They don't vanish just because more of them voted for Sanders (and the same goes for moderates and older black people who voted for Sanders, for that matter).
Also, why settle for "inexplicable reason"? If large numbers of people vote for someone and you don't understand why, why not... try to find out why? Wouldn't that be more satisfying? It's not as if nothing's been written on say, the subject of why Biden has had considerable backing from black voters for the entirety of the campaign.
I'm pretty Goddamned sure he made more money in politics than he would have working a 9-5 job like me. Just saying. These people aren't Saints because they're career politicians. More likely the opposite if you ask me...
1.) Barack Obama
2.) Barack Obama
3.) Jim Clyburn
4.) Barack Obama
5.) African-American voters (especially older ones) don't have time for a "revolution". They've been too busy spending their lives trying to survive in a country that is openly hostile to their existence. They view Biden as a better bet to take out someone they view as an existential threat to them, and I doubt his policies matter one iota. However, it also remains a fact that Joe Biden is NOT Barack Obama, just as Hillary Clinton was not Bill Clinton.
You have to be dangerously naive to think that any politician is too moral and righteous for basic political strategy.
Netanyahu got a lot of votes in Israel too. What the hell is wrong with people lol? He's obviously corrupt. He's obviously committed crimes. And people are like, good enough he's got my vote!
People voted for Brexit like a bunch of dummies too.
Got me why. There's no sane reason people the world over keep voting against their interests to make things worse.
You said Biden was as much a hawk as Hillary, basing it entirely on their Iraq War votes. You were wrong.
You said they were clones "policy-wise". I stated you were wrong on both hawkishness and childcare. Both of those things are "policy". I could list many other policy matters on which Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton differ.
Claiming their policy viewpoints have nothing to do with you saying, and I quote, "policy-wise they might as well be clones" is absurd.
Was their clone-ness due to policy, or due to perception? I guess maybe that's what you mean when you otherwise start saying what "we" are saying as if you're more than one person with one person's opinion.
Joe Biden's not even the nominee yet, so definitively talking about what his presidential campaign is or isn't about is kind of premature.
Bernie would make better education vastly more affordable for people of color than Biden ever will. So would free, or at least more affordable childcare. Education is the key to getting out of the economic situation they're in.
Unfortunately, educating people or otherwise helping them care for their kids carries the risk of maybe having them not towing the party line when they actually realize they now have something to lose once the cycle of poverty is broken. Promises of future change while never delivering is a much surer bet...
And I'm pretty goddamned sure he'd have made a lot more money in business or as a lobbyist than as a politician, and I could produce real numbers to back that up.
Millionaires getting into politics is a problem in America, but politics making millionaires, not so much. Scorn career politicians all you like, but it isn't a job for those in it just for the money.
Just incase anyone has forgotten.
Socialist Tyranny in a Nutshell.
Biden is old and stuck in his ways. He's righteous in his own mind, and that's all that matters. Morality is in the eye of the beholder, so that's not really an issue. Is it moral to not fight for what you believe in because you might make waves? Some would say yes, I wouldn't. This is the Democrats chance to make a big move and prove that they mean what they've been preaching for decades. It looks to me like they're underplaying their hand because they're scared. Playing scared is how you lose...
Umm, isn't that kind of a good reason to vote for Biden if he's the nominee? Is there something wrong with voting for a better option?
I get that you don't know why.
What I don't get is why you don't seem to care about finding out, why you would seemingly just rather dismiss people (even people voting on "your side") as stupid or evil instead of trying to understand where they're coming from.
Especially since the guy you support rather publically didn't do that even when they didn't vote for him.
Yeah, ok. You keep believing that. Biden doesn't strike me as CEO material. Even Bernie is a millionaire now and he's railing against millionares. Even one term representatives get a nice pension that nobody in the less than 1 percenters will ever get.
Boy, I'd sure love to see you post about Baldur's Gate sometime!
Don't worry, Erdogan is going to fix those Heathens.