I don't recall Hillary Clinton telling the states of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan to stop counting in the rural districts where Trump did very well. But perhaps I missed something.
I don't recall Hillary Clinton telling the states of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan to stop counting in the rural districts where Trump did very well. But perhaps I missed something.
Hillary wasn't all about wasting taxpayers money because she could. For all of her flaws, she bowed out with dignity...
Edit: Damn it, couldn't resist posting for even an hour, let alone two weeks!
The inevitable GOP civil war is gonna be interesting. There has been long standing tension between the old guard GOP who believe in tax cuts and free market capitalism and the new people brought into the GOP under Trump that are essentially Democrats on economics for all intents and purposes, whose main goal is opposing institutional liberalism and promoting freedom of information. I am solidly in the latter camp and don't care at all about the former.
I don't recall Hillary Clinton telling the states of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan to stop counting in the rural districts where Trump did very well. But perhaps I missed something.
No she just accused Trump of treason and to this day claims the election was stolen from her. Intelligence agencies were weaponized for political purposes in a way not seen since the days of COINTELPRO and the sabatoge of activist groups.
The inevitable GOP civil war is gonna be interesting. There has been long standing tension between the old guard GOP who believe in tax cuts and free market capitalism and the new people brought into the GOP under Trump that are essentially Democrats on economics for all intents and purposes, whose main goal is opposing institutional liberalism and promoting freedom of information. I am solidly in the latter camp and don't care at all about the former.
I am already worried about Josh Hawley, even though I think his populist schtick is bullshit (because he only really believes in it for certain people).
The inevitable GOP civil war is gonna be interesting. There has been long standing tension between the old guard GOP who believe in tax cuts and free market capitalism and the new people brought into the GOP under Trump that are essentially Democrats on economics for all intents and purposes, whose main goal is opposing institutional liberalism and promoting freedom of information. I am solidly in the latter camp and don't care at all about the former.
Hah, I'm the opposite! I'm not as free-market as I used to be but that's the primary reason I was conservative. Couldn't care less about the social issues.
I don't recall Hillary Clinton telling the states of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan to stop counting in the rural districts where Trump did very well. But perhaps I missed something.
No she just accused Trump of treason and to this day claims the election was stolen from her. Intelligence agencies were weaponized for political purposes in a way not seen since the days of COINTELPRO and the sabatoge of activist groups.
I think you're ascribing positions of Hilary supporters to Hilary herself. The fact is, in the matter of the immediate aftermath of an election, she conceded the next morning, and she attended the inauguration, which she stated on Howard Stern was one of the hardest moments of her life. I would bet pretty good money Trump will do NEITHER of these things.
I don't recall Hillary Clinton telling the states of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan to stop counting in the rural districts where Trump did very well. But perhaps I missed something.
No she just accused Trump of treason and to this day claims the election was stolen from her. Intelligence agencies were weaponized for political purposes in a way not seen since the days of COINTELPRO and the sabatoge of activist groups.
There's really no good evidence for this. I'm sorry that members of the Trump campaign were literally on the phone with Russians being monitored by intelligence agencies, but that's the fault of the Trump campaign.
I don't recall Hillary Clinton telling the states of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan to stop counting in the rural districts where Trump did very well. But perhaps I missed something.
No she just accused Trump of treason and to this day claims the election was stolen from her. Intelligence agencies were weaponized for political purposes in a way not seen since the days of COINTELPRO and the sabatoge of activist groups.
I did mention she had flaws. I can't stand her btw. That's why I voted for Trump in 2016. She did bow out gracefully shortly after election night though. Looks like Trump will be right up there with Gore as the hissy-fit losers...
At this point the networks are just dragging this out for ratings and it's sort of nauseating. This shit is over, and every data analyst has known it for 48 hours. Biden's lead in PA is not coming down, and it is very likely to reach at least 80,000.
I don't recall Hillary Clinton telling the states of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan to stop counting in the rural districts where Trump did very well. But perhaps I missed something.
No she just accused Trump of treason and to this day claims the election was stolen from her. Intelligence agencies were weaponized for political purposes in a way not seen since the days of COINTELPRO and the sabatoge of activist groups.
I did mention she had flaws. I can't stand her btw. That's why I voted for Trump in 2016. She did bow out gracefully shortly after election night though. Looks like Trump will be right up there with Gore as the hissy-fit losers...
I think this position on Gore presents a very flawed and retroactively inaccurate representation of what went down in 2000, but I don't have any real interest in relitigating it right now. Maybe some other time.
At this point the networks are just dragging this out for ratings and it's sort of nauseating. This shit is over, and every data analyst has known it for 48 hours. Biden's lead in PA is not coming down, and it is very likely to reach at least 80,000.
Ratings baby! This country is all about the ?. Trump must be furious that there wasn't a stock market crash after his histrionics. That's what he gets for telegraphing every thing weeks and even months ago. The market probably would have went down if any of this was unexpected. As it stands, just another day on Wall Street...
The inevitable GOP civil war is gonna be interesting. There has been long standing tension between the old guard GOP who believe in tax cuts and free market capitalism and the new people brought into the GOP under Trump that are essentially Democrats on economics for all intents and purposes, whose main goal is opposing institutional liberalism and promoting freedom of information. I am solidly in the latter camp and don't care at all about the former.
Hah, I'm the opposite! I'm not as free-market as I used to be but that's the primary reason I was conservative. Couldn't care less about the social issues.
I figured, lol. Despite the fact that we are both self identified conservatives we never agreed on much.
At this point the networks are just dragging this out for ratings and it's sort of nauseating. This shit is over, and every data analyst has known it for 48 hours. Biden's lead in PA is not coming down, and it is very likely to reach at least 80,000.
Ratings baby! This country is all about the ?. Trump must be furious that there wasn't a stock market crash after his histrionics. That's what he gets for telegraphing every thing weeks and even months ago. The market probably would have went down if any of this was unexpected. As it stands, just another day on Wall Street...
He is going to find himself increasingly irrelevant, but he still has power for 70+ more days. Can do a lot of damage on his way out, mostly with rhetoric. I'm not at all convinced he won't run again in 2024, but 4 years ages someone at his age ALOT. I think his most obvious move is to take on FOX News with a new media venture. The potential on-air "talent" is all in place, and he is apparently LIVID with the Murdoch's about the Arizona call. He will be a kind of President in Exile for the base. The question is, what does a party that has now been completely consumed by Trump do without him in power??
I don't recall Hillary Clinton telling the states of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan to stop counting in the rural districts where Trump did very well. But perhaps I missed something.
No she just accused Trump of treason and to this day claims the election was stolen from her. Intelligence agencies were weaponized for political purposes in a way not seen since the days of COINTELPRO and the sabatoge of activist groups.
I think you're ascribing positions of Hilary supporters to Hilary herself. The fact is, in the matter of the immediate aftermath of an election, she conceded the next morning, and she attended the inauguration, which she stated on Howard Stern was one of the hardest moments of her life. I would bet pretty good money Trump will do NEITHER of these things.
Clinton supporters certainly thought this as well, but Clinton has also been saying this the entire time.
I suspect Trump will do the exact same thing, and it will end up just as forgotten.
The inevitable GOP civil war is gonna be interesting. There has been long standing tension between the old guard GOP who believe in tax cuts and free market capitalism and the new people brought into the GOP under Trump that are essentially Democrats on economics for all intents and purposes, whose main goal is opposing institutional liberalism and promoting freedom of information. I am solidly in the latter camp and don't care at all about the former.
Hah, I'm the opposite! I'm not as free-market as I used to be but that's the primary reason I was conservative. Couldn't care less about the social issues.
I figured, lol. Despite the fact that we are both self identified conservatives we never agreed on much.
We've got the same thoughts on healthcare I think so there is that!
When this election high winds down, we are going to have to have a serious discussion about what Biden is inheriting with the COVID-19 situation, because the election coverage has obscured the fact that it is now truly, absolutely out of control, and it's only gonna get worse these last two months. I honestly have no idea what they are going to be able to do at this point. They aren't gonna be starting from a baseline of 30k at day, they are going to be looking at daily counts of 150,000. Contrary to popular belief on much of the right, the news about the virus is not "disappearing" after the election, and they are going to be very surprised when they realize it wasn't all an election ploy.
I don't recall Hillary Clinton telling the states of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan to stop counting in the rural districts where Trump did very well. But perhaps I missed something.
No she just accused Trump of treason and to this day claims the election was stolen from her. Intelligence agencies were weaponized for political purposes in a way not seen since the days of COINTELPRO and the sabatoge of activist groups.
I think you're ascribing positions of Hilary supporters to Hilary herself. The fact is, in the matter of the immediate aftermath of an election, she conceded the next morning, and she attended the inauguration, which she stated on Howard Stern was one of the hardest moments of her life. I would bet pretty good money Trump will do NEITHER of these things.
Clinton supporters certainly thought this as well, but Clinton has also been saying this the entire time.
I suspect Trump will do the exact same thing, and it will end up just as forgotten.
All I see here is that she is warning that elections can be stolen through meddling, and a warning that it might happen in 2020. Nowhere does she say it was stolen from her, that's being projected on her by whoever wrote the article. And you know what? She was right, Trump absolutely tried to steal the election, he was just incompentent.
When this election high winds down, we are going to have to have a serious discussion about what Biden is inheriting with the COVID-19 situation, because the election coverage has obscured the fact that it is now truly, absolutely out of control, and it's only gonna get worse these last two months. I honestly have no idea what they are going to be able to do at this point. They aren't gonna be starting from a baseline of 30k at day, they are going to be looking at daily counts of 150,000. Contrary to popular belief on much of the right, the news about the virus is not "disappearing" after the election, and they are going to be very surprised when they realize it wasn't all an election ploy.
I think one obvious prediction is that Trump is going to be even more of a deadbeat landlord in the final stretch of his term than he was previously. Right as COVID cases are peaking.
I think if Biden wins clearly by a few states, so litigation would have to succeed in more than one, Trump clearly can’t succeed and high profile Republicans will swiftly abandon him
The run-offs in GA are going to be a heavyweight fight. It's basically gonna be what Stacey Abrams has built vs. the entire right-wing media machine. The X-factor is that I'm fairly certain Trump won't lift a finger in the waning days of his term.
Interesting, the pollsters seem to be coming to the same conclusion I mentioned months ago. I believe I was poo-pood here if I recall correctly. I'm not sure any mathematical formula can predict what people think when people aren't willing to tell them.
Interesting, the pollsters seem to be coming to the same conclusion I mentioned months ago. I believe I was poo-pood here if I recall correctly. I'm not sure any mathematical formula can predict what people think when people aren't willing to tell them.
I'm leaning more towards it being a Trump effect than a systematic failure. It's real, but it didn't happen in 2018 when he wasn't on the ballot.
As for the modelers, they were given shit data to work with in hindsight, and still predicted the Presidential outcome pretty accurately on a state by state level. But they were working with trash as a starting point. And, again, this election has been framed as being alot closer than it actually ended up being. Trump lost 5 states he won last time, and is going to lose by twice as many raw votes. HE got more total as well, so it IS true his support was not tapped out in 2016. But it wasn't even close to enough.
First - I just have to laugh. Did this thread REALLY manage to start relitigating Clinton in 2016. People need to learn to let go (Weirdly, It seems like a fascination of the right to keep talking about her, rather than the left)
Interesting, the pollsters seem to be coming to the same conclusion I mentioned months ago. I believe I was poo-pood here if I recall correctly. I'm not sure any mathematical formula can predict what people think when people aren't willing to tell them.
Plenty of polls were off this cycle - but we're inching towards the national polling being not terribly far off of where it was projected to be. Biden might wind up around +4.5%. That's only 2.5% off of the general national poll prediction of 7%, and would not represent a huge miss.
There are some huge misses in there. Florida. WI, MI, and a lot of the red south were off by a considerable margin. Pollsers need to get better at state level polls for sure. Interestingly - PA might not end up so far off. It was a 4-5 point prediction to Biden. He might wind up around 2%. Off, but not hugely off.
Truthfully - the *way* the vote has been counted has made the polling misses seem worse than they are. I suspect that if all the results for the whole election were dumped into our brains over the course of 10 seconds, we'd look at it and be less skeptical of polling (but still having to admit some of the clear losses).
Lastly - I totally disagree with the idea that a non moderate Dem would have done better in this election. @Ammar was 100% correct when they said that this wasnt a blue wave that failed to materialize: It was a large blue wave and a smaller red wave at the same time. The only conclusion I can come to here is that Biden is probably the one Democrat in the field that could have survive the polling miss and won this election.
First - I just have to laugh. Did this thread REALLY manage to start relitigating Clinton in 2016. People need to learn to let go (Weirdly, It seems like a fascination of the right to keep talking about her, rather than the left)
Interesting, the pollsters seem to be coming to the same conclusion I mentioned months ago. I believe I was poo-pood here if I recall correctly. I'm not sure any mathematical formula can predict what people think when people aren't willing to tell them.
Plenty of polls were off this cycle - but we're inching towards the national polling being not terribly far off of where it was projected to be. Biden might wind up around +4.5%. That's only 2.5% off of the general national poll prediction of 7%, and would not represent a huge miss.
There are some huge misses in there. Florida. WI, MI, and a lot of the red south were off by a considerable margin. Pollsers need to get better at state level polls for sure. Interestingly - PA might not end up so far off. It was a 4-5 point prediction to Biden. He might wind up around 2%. Off, but not hugely off.
Truthfully - the *way* the vote has been counted has made the polling misses seem worse than they are. I suspect that if all the results for the whole election were dumped into our brains over the course of 10 seconds, we'd look at it and be less skeptical of polling (but still having to admit some of the clear losses).
Lastly - I totally disagree with the idea that a non moderate Dem would have done better in this election. @Ammar was 100% correct when they said that this wasnt a blue wave that failed to materialize: It was a large blue wave and a smaller red wave at the same time. The only conclusion I can come to here is that Biden is probably the one Democrat in the field that could have survive the polling miss and won this election.
That's coming from a Warren supporter, btw.
Crashing waves. That's the best metaphor I've heard in a long time. Basically we had a purple wave with some blue foam!.
Without covid trump would have won it easily and regardless of the other candidate unfortunately
If Trump handled COVID properly, he would have won in a landslide.
If he handled COVID competently, he would have won outright.
If he did the bare minimum when it came to COVID, he would have squeaked through.
COVID isn't to blame for Trump's loss. Trump's incompetence is.
Comments
Hillary wasn't all about wasting taxpayers money because she could. For all of her flaws, she bowed out with dignity...
Edit: Damn it, couldn't resist posting for even an hour, let alone two weeks!
No she just accused Trump of treason and to this day claims the election was stolen from her. Intelligence agencies were weaponized for political purposes in a way not seen since the days of COINTELPRO and the sabatoge of activist groups.
I am already worried about Josh Hawley, even though I think his populist schtick is bullshit (because he only really believes in it for certain people).
Hah, I'm the opposite! I'm not as free-market as I used to be but that's the primary reason I was conservative. Couldn't care less about the social issues.
I think you're ascribing positions of Hilary supporters to Hilary herself. The fact is, in the matter of the immediate aftermath of an election, she conceded the next morning, and she attended the inauguration, which she stated on Howard Stern was one of the hardest moments of her life. I would bet pretty good money Trump will do NEITHER of these things.
There's really no good evidence for this. I'm sorry that members of the Trump campaign were literally on the phone with Russians being monitored by intelligence agencies, but that's the fault of the Trump campaign.
I did mention she had flaws. I can't stand her btw. That's why I voted for Trump in 2016. She did bow out gracefully shortly after election night though. Looks like Trump will be right up there with Gore as the hissy-fit losers...
I think this position on Gore presents a very flawed and retroactively inaccurate representation of what went down in 2000, but I don't have any real interest in relitigating it right now. Maybe some other time.
Ratings baby! This country is all about the ?. Trump must be furious that there wasn't a stock market crash after his histrionics. That's what he gets for telegraphing every thing weeks and even months ago. The market probably would have went down if any of this was unexpected. As it stands, just another day on Wall Street...
I figured, lol. Despite the fact that we are both self identified conservatives we never agreed on much.
He is going to find himself increasingly irrelevant, but he still has power for 70+ more days. Can do a lot of damage on his way out, mostly with rhetoric. I'm not at all convinced he won't run again in 2024, but 4 years ages someone at his age ALOT. I think his most obvious move is to take on FOX News with a new media venture. The potential on-air "talent" is all in place, and he is apparently LIVID with the Murdoch's about the Arizona call. He will be a kind of President in Exile for the base. The question is, what does a party that has now been completely consumed by Trump do without him in power??
Clinton supporters certainly thought this as well, but Clinton has also been saying this the entire time.
I suspect Trump will do the exact same thing, and it will end up just as forgotten.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2019/05/06/hillary-clinton-warns-2020-democratic-candidates-stolen-election/1116477001/
We've got the same thoughts on healthcare I think so there is that!
All I see here is that she is warning that elections can be stolen through meddling, and a warning that it might happen in 2020. Nowhere does she say it was stolen from her, that's being projected on her by whoever wrote the article. And you know what? She was right, Trump absolutely tried to steal the election, he was just incompentent.
I think one obvious prediction is that Trump is going to be even more of a deadbeat landlord in the final stretch of his term than he was previously. Right as COVID cases are peaking.
What I find crazy is that faker and grifter (Paula White) is married to the keyboardist from Journey!
https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Cain
They should go separate ways.
Here's another remix
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/06/polling-industry-blows-it-again-434591
I'm leaning more towards it being a Trump effect than a systematic failure. It's real, but it didn't happen in 2018 when he wasn't on the ballot.
As for the modelers, they were given shit data to work with in hindsight, and still predicted the Presidential outcome pretty accurately on a state by state level. But they were working with trash as a starting point. And, again, this election has been framed as being alot closer than it actually ended up being. Trump lost 5 states he won last time, and is going to lose by twice as many raw votes. HE got more total as well, so it IS true his support was not tapped out in 2016. But it wasn't even close to enough.
Plenty of polls were off this cycle - but we're inching towards the national polling being not terribly far off of where it was projected to be. Biden might wind up around +4.5%. That's only 2.5% off of the general national poll prediction of 7%, and would not represent a huge miss.
There are some huge misses in there. Florida. WI, MI, and a lot of the red south were off by a considerable margin. Pollsers need to get better at state level polls for sure. Interestingly - PA might not end up so far off. It was a 4-5 point prediction to Biden. He might wind up around 2%. Off, but not hugely off.
Truthfully - the *way* the vote has been counted has made the polling misses seem worse than they are. I suspect that if all the results for the whole election were dumped into our brains over the course of 10 seconds, we'd look at it and be less skeptical of polling (but still having to admit some of the clear losses).
Lastly - I totally disagree with the idea that a non moderate Dem would have done better in this election. @Ammar was 100% correct when they said that this wasnt a blue wave that failed to materialize: It was a large blue wave and a smaller red wave at the same time. The only conclusion I can come to here is that Biden is probably the one Democrat in the field that could have survive the polling miss and won this election.
That's coming from a Warren supporter, btw.
Crashing waves. That's the best metaphor I've heard in a long time. Basically we had a purple wave with some blue foam!.
If Trump handled COVID properly, he would have won in a landslide.
If he handled COVID competently, he would have won outright.
If he did the bare minimum when it came to COVID, he would have squeaked through.
COVID isn't to blame for Trump's loss. Trump's incompetence is.