This is fascism, sedition, and a coup attempt to install a dictator using the judiciary.
Republicans are the worst we've got.
They could easily happen too since they arguably started this plan in motion by stealing a Supreme Court seat. Now they only need 5 of the ethically challenged extreme partisan hack right wingers on the bench to go along with the coup. That's why Mitch McConnell and Trump put them there... We'll see.
This is fascism, sedition, and a coup attempt to install a dictator using the judiciary.
Republicans are the worst we've got.
They could easily happen too since they arguably started this plan in motion by stealing a Supreme Court seat. Now they only need 5 of the ethically challenged extreme partisan hack right wingers on the bench to go along with the coup. That's why Mitch McConnell and Trump put them there... We'll see.
Court isn't touching any of this, thank god. If they aren't taking the Pennsylvania case, they absolutely are not going to entertain the idea that Texas can sue other states because their results weren't to their liking. But think of what they are insisting here. This is yet ANOTHER argument in favor of getting rid of the Electoral College. Because now Republicans don't even believe blue states should be able to administer their own elections.
But the point is clear. Just because something is destined to be unsuccessful doesn't mean it's not dangerous. These are the highest Republican office holders in the country outside of the Senate. More of them than not want to overturn the election, based on nothing. One can only assume they don't believe in elections at all, only winning.
This is fascism, sedition, and a coup attempt to install a dictator using the judiciary.
Republicans are the worst we've got.
They could easily happen too since they arguably started this plan in motion by stealing a Supreme Court seat. Now they only need 5 of the ethically challenged extreme partisan hack right wingers on the bench to go along with the coup. That's why Mitch McConnell and Trump put them there... We'll see.
Court isn't touching any of this, thank god. If they aren't taking the Pennsylvania case, they absolutely are not going to entertain the idea that Texas can sue other states because their results weren't to their liking. But think of what they are insisting here. This is yet ANOTHER argument in favor of getting rid of the Electoral College. Because now Republicans don't even believe blue states should be able to administer their own elections.
But the point is clear. Just because something is destined to be unsuccessful doesn't mean it's not dangerous. These are the highest Republican office holders in the country outside of the Senate. More of them than not want to overturn the election, based on nothing. One can only assume they don't believe in elections at all, only winning.
You've got a lot of faith in hyper partisans on the Supreme Court.
Alito, Kavanaugh, and Thomas are unprincipled hyper Republican partisan hacks, no question. They just need one more vote from the other 3 conservatives. Roberts and Gorsuch both seem to be just conservative ideologues but don't appear to be wearing partisan blinders.
So the fate of Democracy in the United States and this coup rests on Amy Covid Barrett who posed with Trump for a campaign photo directly after being confirmed on a partisan vote from Senate Republicans 8 days before the election wasn't it?
That's a hell of a lot of faith in someone that doesn't appear to deserve it if you ask me.
Edit:maybe my math is wrong, you'd need those three plus ACB plus one more. Damn that margin is still too close.
This is fascism, sedition, and a coup attempt to install a dictator using the judiciary.
Republicans are the worst we've got.
They could easily happen too since they arguably started this plan in motion by stealing a Supreme Court seat. Now they only need 5 of the ethically challenged extreme partisan hack right wingers on the bench to go along with the coup. That's why Mitch McConnell and Trump put them there... We'll see.
Court isn't touching any of this, thank god. If they aren't taking the Pennsylvania case, they absolutely are not going to entertain the idea that Texas can sue other states because their results weren't to their liking. But think of what they are insisting here. This is yet ANOTHER argument in favor of getting rid of the Electoral College. Because now Republicans don't even believe blue states should be able to administer their own elections.
But the point is clear. Just because something is destined to be unsuccessful doesn't mean it's not dangerous. These are the highest Republican office holders in the country outside of the Senate. More of them than not want to overturn the election, based on nothing. One can only assume they don't believe in elections at all, only winning.
You've got a lot of faith in hyper partisans on the Supreme Court.
Alito, Kavanaugh, and Thomas are unprincipled hyper Republican partisan hacks, no question. They just need one more vote from the other 3 conservatives. Roberts and Gorsuch both seem to be just conservative ideologues but don't appear to be wearing partisan blinders.
So the fate of Democracy in the United States and this coup rests on Amy Covid Barrett who posed with Trump for a campaign photo directly after being confirmed on a partisan vote from Senate Republicans 8 days before the election wasn't it?
That's a hell of a lot of faith in someone that doesn't appear to deserve it if you ask me.
Edit:maybe my math is wrong, you'd need those three plus ACB plus one more. Damn that margin is still too close.
I have suspicions Barrett, Kavanaugh, Alito or Thomas might rule for Trump if they actually took a case. I think Roberts is determined not to let it even be an issue. I think they've reached a general consensus that this is way too hot to touch and aren't going to get dragged into it.
Republicans are asking for nothing less than EVERY vote in at least 4 states be be thrown out. John Roberts may be right-wing, he doesn't want to the guy who ends the Republic. Many people already view the court as illegitimate. They have a 6-3 majority for the next decade (likely two). They don't need Donald Trump, but they do need to retain an OUNCE of legitimacy, which they absolutely won't have if they unilaterally overturn national election results.
CNN is the only media outlet that's giving tbis 'coup' attempt much ink. Politico and Reuters have relegated it to page 5. The BBC barely mentions it. It's just a big show to soothe the ego of the orange man behind the curtain...
This is fascism, sedition, and a coup attempt to install a dictator using the judiciary.
Republicans are the worst we've got.
They could easily happen too since they arguably started this plan in motion by stealing a Supreme Court seat. Now they only need 5 of the ethically challenged extreme partisan hack right wingers on the bench to go along with the coup. That's why Mitch McConnell and Trump put them there... We'll see.
Court isn't touching any of this, thank god. If they aren't taking the Pennsylvania case, they absolutely are not going to entertain the idea that Texas can sue other states because their results weren't to their liking. But think of what they are insisting here. This is yet ANOTHER argument in favor of getting rid of the Electoral College. Because now Republicans don't even believe blue states should be able to administer their own elections.
But the point is clear. Just because something is destined to be unsuccessful doesn't mean it's not dangerous. These are the highest Republican office holders in the country outside of the Senate. More of them than not want to overturn the election, based on nothing. One can only assume they don't believe in elections at all, only winning.
You've got a lot of faith in hyper partisans on the Supreme Court.
Alito, Kavanaugh, and Thomas are unprincipled hyper Republican partisan hacks, no question. They just need one more vote from the other 3 conservatives. Roberts and Gorsuch both seem to be just conservative ideologues but don't appear to be wearing partisan blinders.
So the fate of Democracy in the United States and this coup rests on Amy Covid Barrett who posed with Trump for a campaign photo directly after being confirmed on a partisan vote from Senate Republicans 8 days before the election wasn't it?
That's a hell of a lot of faith in someone that doesn't appear to deserve it if you ask me.
Edit:maybe my math is wrong, you'd need those three plus ACB plus one more. Damn that margin is still too close.
I have suspicions Barrett, Kavanaugh, Alito or Thomas might rule for Trump if they actually took a case. I think Roberts is determined not to let it even be an issue. I think they've reached a general consensus that this is way too hot to touch and aren't going to get dragged into it.
Republicans are asking for nothing less than EVERY vote in at least 4 states be be thrown out. John Roberts may be right-wing, he doesn't want to the guy who ends the Republic. Many people already view the court as illegitimate. They have a 6-3 majority for the next decade (likely two). They don't need Donald Trump, but they do need to retain an OUNCE of legitimacy, which they absolutely won't have if they unilaterally overturn national election results.
Let’s assume the worst. That the Supreme Court does side with Texas on this matter and those Electoral Votes are thrown out.
Doesn’t that mean Pelosi becomes President? That isn’t the outcome Alito and company would want.
US now has more COVID-19 deaths than combat fatalities in World War II. I realize that the Russians and (obviously) certain civilian populations lost far more than this (millions upon millions), but as far as the United States is concerned, it's now more deadly than one of the greatest conflicts in human history.
This is fascism, sedition, and a coup attempt to install a dictator using the judiciary.
Republicans are the worst we've got.
They could easily happen too since they arguably started this plan in motion by stealing a Supreme Court seat. Now they only need 5 of the ethically challenged extreme partisan hack right wingers on the bench to go along with the coup. That's why Mitch McConnell and Trump put them there... We'll see.
Court isn't touching any of this, thank god. If they aren't taking the Pennsylvania case, they absolutely are not going to entertain the idea that Texas can sue other states because their results weren't to their liking. But think of what they are insisting here. This is yet ANOTHER argument in favor of getting rid of the Electoral College. Because now Republicans don't even believe blue states should be able to administer their own elections.
But the point is clear. Just because something is destined to be unsuccessful doesn't mean it's not dangerous. These are the highest Republican office holders in the country outside of the Senate. More of them than not want to overturn the election, based on nothing. One can only assume they don't believe in elections at all, only winning.
You've got a lot of faith in hyper partisans on the Supreme Court.
Alito, Kavanaugh, and Thomas are unprincipled hyper Republican partisan hacks, no question. They just need one more vote from the other 3 conservatives. Roberts and Gorsuch both seem to be just conservative ideologues but don't appear to be wearing partisan blinders.
So the fate of Democracy in the United States and this coup rests on Amy Covid Barrett who posed with Trump for a campaign photo directly after being confirmed on a partisan vote from Senate Republicans 8 days before the election wasn't it?
That's a hell of a lot of faith in someone that doesn't appear to deserve it if you ask me.
Edit:maybe my math is wrong, you'd need those three plus ACB plus one more. Damn that margin is still too close.
I have suspicions Barrett, Kavanaugh, Alito or Thomas might rule for Trump if they actually took a case. I think Roberts is determined not to let it even be an issue. I think they've reached a general consensus that this is way too hot to touch and aren't going to get dragged into it.
Republicans are asking for nothing less than EVERY vote in at least 4 states be be thrown out. John Roberts may be right-wing, he doesn't want to the guy who ends the Republic. Many people already view the court as illegitimate. They have a 6-3 majority for the next decade (likely two). They don't need Donald Trump, but they do need to retain an OUNCE of legitimacy, which they absolutely won't have if they unilaterally overturn national election results.
Let’s assume the worst. That the Supreme Court does side with Texas on this matter and those Electoral Votes are thrown out.
Doesn’t that mean Pelosi becomes President? That isn’t the outcome Alito and company would want.
This is fascism, sedition, and a coup attempt to install a dictator using the judiciary.
Republicans are the worst we've got.
They could easily happen too since they arguably started this plan in motion by stealing a Supreme Court seat. Now they only need 5 of the ethically challenged extreme partisan hack right wingers on the bench to go along with the coup. That's why Mitch McConnell and Trump put them there... We'll see.
Court isn't touching any of this, thank god. If they aren't taking the Pennsylvania case, they absolutely are not going to entertain the idea that Texas can sue other states because their results weren't to their liking. But think of what they are insisting here. This is yet ANOTHER argument in favor of getting rid of the Electoral College. Because now Republicans don't even believe blue states should be able to administer their own elections.
But the point is clear. Just because something is destined to be unsuccessful doesn't mean it's not dangerous. These are the highest Republican office holders in the country outside of the Senate. More of them than not want to overturn the election, based on nothing. One can only assume they don't believe in elections at all, only winning.
You've got a lot of faith in hyper partisans on the Supreme Court.
Alito, Kavanaugh, and Thomas are unprincipled hyper Republican partisan hacks, no question. They just need one more vote from the other 3 conservatives. Roberts and Gorsuch both seem to be just conservative ideologues but don't appear to be wearing partisan blinders.
So the fate of Democracy in the United States and this coup rests on Amy Covid Barrett who posed with Trump for a campaign photo directly after being confirmed on a partisan vote from Senate Republicans 8 days before the election wasn't it?
That's a hell of a lot of faith in someone that doesn't appear to deserve it if you ask me.
Edit:maybe my math is wrong, you'd need those three plus ACB plus one more. Damn that margin is still too close.
I have suspicions Barrett, Kavanaugh, Alito or Thomas might rule for Trump if they actually took a case. I think Roberts is determined not to let it even be an issue. I think they've reached a general consensus that this is way too hot to touch and aren't going to get dragged into it.
Republicans are asking for nothing less than EVERY vote in at least 4 states be be thrown out. John Roberts may be right-wing, he doesn't want to the guy who ends the Republic. Many people already view the court as illegitimate. They have a 6-3 majority for the next decade (likely two). They don't need Donald Trump, but they do need to retain an OUNCE of legitimacy, which they absolutely won't have if they unilaterally overturn national election results.
Let’s assume the worst. That the Supreme Court does side with Texas on this matter and those Electoral Votes are thrown out.
Doesn’t that mean Pelosi becomes President? That isn’t the outcome Alito and company would want.
Dont think that's what happens. If the EVs were just thrown out, then neither candidate would have 270 votes. In that instance, it goes to the House of Representatives, where each house "delegation" (meaning, state) gets a vote. In that instance, Trump is installed as dictator President.
This is obviously the scheme. Take the power from voters and give the states, that Republicans have gerrymandered to hell, the chance to send Republican electors and install Trump again.
Court pretty flatly denies taking the case. Alito and Thomas seem to suggest they would have taken the case, but those two would have been the ones I was most concerned about, as they are far and away the most partisan. Regardless:
Court pretty flatly denies taking the case. Alito and Thomas seem to suggest they would have taken the case, but those two would have been the ones I was most concerned about, as they are far and away the most partisan. Regardless:
Thomas and Alito are horrific. I wouldnt be surprised if this was a 4-5 with Gorsuch the only one willing to help Roberts forestall the death of Federalism.
Well. I dont have any evidence of that. For now, my ire is contained just to Alito and Thomas.
Shocking that Kavanaugh, he of the snivelling conspiracies and vows of taking revenge in Democrats, was not one who joined Thomas and Alito.
So anyway what are the odds that Trump will now tell us that actually this Texas case wasn't THE BIG ONE after all and the next lawsuit will actually be the real one for reals that will overthrow the election results and they've totally been saving the REAL evidence...
Wait, I thought Kavanaugh and Comey-Barrett were right wing hacks Hell bent on destroying everything liberal. Oh wait, maybe judges can actually use their brains and rule using logic. Who called this? I believe it was me a month or two ago... ?
Wait, I thought Kavanaugh and Comey-Barrett were right wing hacks Hell bent on destroying everything liberal. Oh wait, maybe judges can actually use their brains and rule using logic. Who called this? I believe it was me a month or two ago... ?
The issue with the Supreme Court isn't even the politics of any one justice. It's that every Obama voter in the country had that pick stolen from them and handed to Trump, and then ANOTHER one taken when they did a complete 180 on their EXACT reason for denying Garland. The court would STILL be 5-4 conservative right now if Obama had gotten a pick (ANY pick). Scalia and Ginsberg would have cancelled each other out, and we'd be back to square one. And no one would be bitching about it once the nomination was approved. But since the theft of the seat cannot be rectified, I'll keep talking about it until it is.
We won the 2012 Presidential Election. Apparently losses only have consequences for Democrats. Which is quite evident by what we are seeing just today. The Supreme Court seat theft was just a Caesar salad before main prime rib course of trying to end democracy. This wasn't a splinter cell that signed onto this lawsuit. It was the majority of elected Republicans writ large.
You can probably correctly say alot of these people signed on because they are terrified of Trump. That's doesn't make it better. It means they were willing to usher in a dictatorship to avoid a primary challenge. I don't care what their private stance on Trump is. They are public officials, and what they do in public is what matters. And they signed their name to this thing. Come to think of it, since they apparently don't believe in voting, why the hell do they care about a possible primary challenge??
We know this has all been kabuki theater. 10s of millions of people think it's quite real and legitimate. Probably nearly 50 million people. In the end, these Representatives are listening to their constituents call their offices asking them why they aren't doing more to throw the election to Trump.
Wait, I thought Kavanaugh and Comey-Barrett were right wing hacks Hell bent on destroying everything liberal. Oh wait, maybe judges can actually use their brains and rule using logic. Who called this? I believe it was me a month or two ago... ?
These justices are not selected from the heritage Foundation think tanks for the brains, logic and independence.
Kavanaugh openly admitted he was a partisan hack and vowed revenge on Democrats during his confirmation hearing. When someone tells you who they are you have to believe them.
Wait, I thought Kavanaugh and Comey-Barrett were right wing hacks Hell bent on destroying everything liberal. Oh wait, maybe judges can actually use their brains and rule using logic. Who called this? I believe it was me a month or two ago... ?
These justices are not selected from the heritage Foundation think tanks for the brains, logic and independence.
Kavanaugh openly admitted he was a partisan hack and vowed revenge on Democrats during his confirmation hearing. When someone tells you who they are you have to believe them.
America survives to die another day.
I might have vowed revenge too if I had been treated like he was. Lots of things are said in the heat of the moment. When the emotion fades, so do the words.
Wait, I thought Kavanaugh and Comey-Barrett were right wing hacks Hell bent on destroying everything liberal. Oh wait, maybe judges can actually use their brains and rule using logic. Who called this? I believe it was me a month or two ago... ?
Hard meh here. What I see is that the president was openly saying exactly what most progressives feared: That the 3 appointees to the court he added (one stolen) should bail him out and overturn the election simple because he lost it. If anything, his actions validate the idea that this was one of his endgames.
The two reasons why it didnt were A) - He had no leverage over them after they had been confirmed. They didnt really have to do anything for him
B ) - the election wasnt nearly close enough for it to be stolen without delegitimizing every single institution in the US government. If we had something closer to 2000, with Trump narrowly losing one state (say, Georgia) that cost him the election by a few thousand votes - I'm not convinced we would have seen the SCOTUS stop him from stealing the election.
So, for now, the SCOTUS has passed the very (very) low bar of stopping an attempted coup. Not sure it deserves plaudits.
As a side note - @jjstraka34 made the point earlier that by preserving their legitimacy on this issue, the SCOTUS will have more of a free hand to push conservatives changes down the line.
I want to keep my mouth shut, I do. I am so opinionated and so many times it just makes me looks stupid. I am okay with that though, I have always been less than. Kay, I do wish that I was more normal but I guess that was never in the cards.
I miss the days of Obama, as hard as that is for me to say. He was charismatic sure, but you hardly ever heard from him and you hoped that the government was working for the greater good. I did not agree with a lot of what he represented but, you know... I want those days back.
I feel like the world has taken a turn to the dark. Like a serious right hand, never looking back turn. We have seen a turning point, beyond partisanship to where things seem like they will never be the same again. I feel like Arthur C Clarke’s, A Childhood’s End, everything is leading away from anything good. Where everything we look at from here after will be something we don’t understand, and to be honest, scary.
There is good though, you all have shown me that. I am not without hope, just think that doing the right thing is not very popular right now. Maybe it never was but maybe one day it will be. I hope I live to see it.
Politics are a world ending meme right now. I hope that this is just a cyclical happening but it feels different. I hope that I am wrong.
Wait, I thought Kavanaugh and Comey-Barrett were right wing hacks Hell bent on destroying everything liberal. Oh wait, maybe judges can actually use their brains and rule using logic. Who called this? I believe it was me a month or two ago... ?
Alito and Thomas published a statement saying they would have allowed a bill of complaint to be filed. However, such statements are not required as part of determining cases. We know that a majority of the court refused to accept the case, but we don't know what position Kavanaugh and Comey-Barrett took on that.
Wait, I thought Kavanaugh and Comey-Barrett were right wing hacks Hell bent on destroying everything liberal. Oh wait, maybe judges can actually use their brains and rule using logic. Who called this? I believe it was me a month or two ago... ?
These justices are not selected from the heritage Foundation think tanks for the brains, logic and independence.
Kavanaugh openly admitted he was a partisan hack and vowed revenge on Democrats during his confirmation hearing. When someone tells you who they are you have to believe them.
America survives to die another day.
I might have vowed revenge too if I had been treated like he was. Lots of things are said in the heat of the moment. When the emotion fades, so do the words.
Treated like what? The unhinged lying frat bro he is? The dude sexually assaulted women. The Barr justice department investigation was a joke.
Someone with Kavanaugh's disgusting performance does not, does not, belong on the Supreme Court. Not at all, that's just based on his performance at the hearings.
If he can't handle a tough situation without crying, ranting like a lunatic, and screaming then he doesn't have the temperament to be a Supreme Court Justice. His confirmation in particular cemented the ridiculous nature of the new Supreme Court. It's a kangaroo court now.
They didn't destroy the Republic today, that's a low hurdle cleared. Hooray.
Someone will have to explain to me how any of this that Paul Waldman wrote in the Washington Post is incorrect:
Some years ago, I wrote a book arguing that Democrats should learn from the things Republicans did well. One of these was that the GOP had a simple foundation of shared beliefs that could be easily communicated to voters. Ask a Republican running for any office from dogcatcher all the way up to president what it meant to be a conservative, and they’d tick off some version of the same four pillars: small government, low taxes, a strong military and traditional social values.
Conservatives still believe in those things. But no one could seriously argue that they are any longer the animating purpose of the Republican Party. Instead, the one thing that unites the right and drives the GOP is hatred of liberals. That hatred has consumed every policy goal, every ideological principle and even every ounce of commitment to country.
“But Democrats hate conservatives, too!” you might say. Indeed they do. Negative partisanship — being more motivated by your dislike of the other party than by affection for your own — is a key feature of contemporary politics. But when 18 Republican state attorneys general, more than half of House Republicans and multiple conservative organizations all demand that the results of a presidential election where no fraud was found be simply tossed aside so that Trump can be declared winner, something more profound has been revealed.
The Republican Party has proved that its hatred of liberals is so foundational that it will abandon any pretense of commitment to democracy, if democracy allows for the possibility that liberals might win an election. They have come to regard Democratic voters as essentially undeserving of having their will translated into power, no matter how large their numbers.
They might have believed it before, but now they’re willing to proclaim it even after they just lost a presidential election by 7 million votes and a 306-232 electoral college margin. Forget all that inspiring talk about the genius of the Framers and their vision for democracy; if having an election means that the people we hate might win, then the election must simply be nullified.
You might say that the Republican officials signing on to this deeply anti-American crusade are doing so out of fear as much as conviction, but the two are not mutually exclusive. All elected officials worry about contradicting their base, but in today’s Republican Party, that worry is almost completely divorced from policy. Yes, you’d get flak if you voted to raise taxes, but the greatest danger comes from failing to fight the left with sufficient vigor.
That danger, furthermore, is not only electoral but physical; the Republican leader in the Pennsylvania state Senate said this week that if she refused to sign a letter demanding that Congress toss out her state’s votes in the presidential race, “I’d get my house bombed tonight.” It might not actually happen, but the point is that Republican officeholders understand well what their party values above all else and what kinds of transgressions will not be tolerated.
Trump has often cited the extraordinary loyalty he has received from his party’s voters; it’s one of the few things he says that’s true. But it isn’t because Trump signed a corporate tax cut and slashed environmental regulations.
When you ask the typical Trump supporter what they love about him, they don’t mention some substantive policy position; what they say is that he is a fighter. The petty squabbles, the insulting tweets, the deranged conspiracy theories — the things that the Never Trumpers and most other Americans find off-putting are exactly what endears him to the Republican base.
Trump fights and fights, angrily, bitterly, endlessly driven forward by his hatred of the people his supporters hate. That’s what the base loves, and every other Republican knows it.
Everything about the election that just ended reinforced for conservatives that nothing is more important than hating liberals. The rhetoric of the 2020 campaign, starting with Trump but going all the way down the ballot, was that if Democrats were elected, then it would not be suboptimal or bad or even terrible, but the end of everything you care about. Towns and cities would burn, religion would be outlawed, America as we know it would cease to exist. These horrors were not presented as metaphors, but as the literal truth. In the face of that potential apocalypse, who could possibly care about mundane policy goals? So no Republican argued that if we didn’t cut the capital gains tax then it would be the end of life as we know it. They want to cut the capital gains tax, sure — but its importance pales next to the urgency of stopping the cataclysm that would engulf us all if Democrats were to hold power.
To be clear, there are still thoughtful conservatives out there trying to advance a coherent ideological project. But seldom have they mattered less to their movement and their party. They may produce white papers on free-market health-care solutions or innovative tax plans, but no one really cares.
If it doesn’t Own the Libs, it doesn’t matter on the right. That’s what the Republican Party and the conservative movement are about today, and it might take a long time for them to change.
Someone will have to explain to me how any of this that Paul Waldman wrote in the Washington Post is incorrect:
Some years ago, I wrote a book arguing that Democrats should learn from the things Republicans did well. One of these was that the GOP had a simple foundation of shared beliefs that could be easily communicated to voters. Ask a Republican running for any office from dogcatcher all the way up to president what it meant to be a conservative, and they’d tick off some version of the same four pillars: small government, low taxes, a strong military and traditional social values.
Conservatives still believe in those things. But no one could seriously argue that they are any longer the animating purpose of the Republican Party. Instead, the one thing that unites the right and drives the GOP is hatred of liberals. That hatred has consumed every policy goal, every ideological principle and even every ounce of commitment to country.
“But Democrats hate conservatives, too!” you might say. Indeed they do. Negative partisanship — being more motivated by your dislike of the other party than by affection for your own — is a key feature of contemporary politics. But when 18 Republican state attorneys general, more than half of House Republicans and multiple conservative organizations all demand that the results of a presidential election where no fraud was found be simply tossed aside so that Trump can be declared winner, something more profound has been revealed.
The Republican Party has proved that its hatred of liberals is so foundational that it will abandon any pretense of commitment to democracy, if democracy allows for the possibility that liberals might win an election. They have come to regard Democratic voters as essentially undeserving of having their will translated into power, no matter how large their numbers.
They might have believed it before, but now they’re willing to proclaim it even after they just lost a presidential election by 7 million votes and a 306-232 electoral college margin. Forget all that inspiring talk about the genius of the Framers and their vision for democracy; if having an election means that the people we hate might win, then the election must simply be nullified.
You might say that the Republican officials signing on to this deeply anti-American crusade are doing so out of fear as much as conviction, but the two are not mutually exclusive. All elected officials worry about contradicting their base, but in today’s Republican Party, that worry is almost completely divorced from policy. Yes, you’d get flak if you voted to raise taxes, but the greatest danger comes from failing to fight the left with sufficient vigor.
That danger, furthermore, is not only electoral but physical; the Republican leader in the Pennsylvania state Senate said this week that if she refused to sign a letter demanding that Congress toss out her state’s votes in the presidential race, “I’d get my house bombed tonight.” It might not actually happen, but the point is that Republican officeholders understand well what their party values above all else and what kinds of transgressions will not be tolerated.
Trump has often cited the extraordinary loyalty he has received from his party’s voters; it’s one of the few things he says that’s true. But it isn’t because Trump signed a corporate tax cut and slashed environmental regulations.
When you ask the typical Trump supporter what they love about him, they don’t mention some substantive policy position; what they say is that he is a fighter. The petty squabbles, the insulting tweets, the deranged conspiracy theories — the things that the Never Trumpers and most other Americans find off-putting are exactly what endears him to the Republican base.
Trump fights and fights, angrily, bitterly, endlessly driven forward by his hatred of the people his supporters hate. That’s what the base loves, and every other Republican knows it.
Everything about the election that just ended reinforced for conservatives that nothing is more important than hating liberals. The rhetoric of the 2020 campaign, starting with Trump but going all the way down the ballot, was that if Democrats were elected, then it would not be suboptimal or bad or even terrible, but the end of everything you care about. Towns and cities would burn, religion would be outlawed, America as we know it would cease to exist. These horrors were not presented as metaphors, but as the literal truth. In the face of that potential apocalypse, who could possibly care about mundane policy goals? So no Republican argued that if we didn’t cut the capital gains tax then it would be the end of life as we know it. They want to cut the capital gains tax, sure — but its importance pales next to the urgency of stopping the cataclysm that would engulf us all if Democrats were to hold power.
To be clear, there are still thoughtful conservatives out there trying to advance a coherent ideological project. But seldom have they mattered less to their movement and their party. They may produce white papers on free-market health-care solutions or innovative tax plans, but no one really cares.
If it doesn’t Own the Libs, it doesn’t matter on the right. That’s what the Republican Party and the conservative movement are about today, and it might take a long time for them to change.
Nope, that about sums it up. My sister thinks liberals literally drink the blood of babies and run child prostitution rings. Oh, and that CERN is trying to open a portal to Hell to summon demons.
I just think liberals are a little naive and there will be unforeseen consequences for some of their policies if implemented. I've never hated anybody over their politics though. Guess I'm just not a man of the times.
Even I didn't know that they were trying to raise the 'Ancient Ones'. I guess Lovecraft was a prophet after all. Who knew? ?
This is like if everyone who watched "True Detective" thought the video Rust has Marty watch in the garage was real. I mean, I guess it's ok to fall for the Blair Witch marketing campaign for 5 minutes, but anything beyond that, you have serious problems. And if by chance anyone HASN'T watched the first season of "True Detective", cancel all your weekend plans and binge it. Just skip Season 2 entirely.
In non attempted-coup news: It sounds like the UK and EU have agreed to continue negotiating past their self imposed (I think?) deadline of today in hopes of stoping a hard brexit. Apparently though, it sounds like a longshot at this point that they'll find the common ground they need to actually arrive at a deal.
That's rough. The recovery from this second wave of COVID will be hampered by a hard Brexit.
About what I'd expect. At least four of the Trump voters believe the election was stolen (one even thinks it's Republicans who have an uphill climb because of baked-in election fraud each cycle). None of them even give a cursory reason or theory as to why this is apparently the case. No such equally crazy sentiment exists among the Biden voters profiled. And, of course, they are very offended no one understands them. While one of them takes offense to everyone thinking right-wingers are homophobic or against LGBGTQ rights, two of the others use lines like "men becoming women and women becoming men" and the ever-faithful "gay values shoved down our throat", as if allowing other people to live with the same rights is a personal daily burden for them.
They don't like that we're "smug". I'll continue to be smug as long as they hold these views on gay rights. They say we believe we're always right. Well, maybe not always, but we were right about Bush, and we were sure as shit right about Trump, so we've been able to discern the likelihood of impending disaster for the last 20 years. I guess I'm just out of fucks to give in regards to perceived slights in the wake of COVID-19.
I went and re-read a couple of them, and it turns out that there is not only a big-tech and big-media conspiracy against Trump (apparently making it a "not-level" playing field) but a term I had never heard before, which is "big-music". Presumably because Taylor Swift and Billy Eilish told people they should register to vote. Conservatives have been bitching about not being able to effect culture for my entire life. Maybe they should focus on the fact that, on the macro-level, they simply don't really produce any artists who make anything that's worth a damn. Conservatives actually LOVE celebrities. They have elected two of them in the last forty years. They trot them out every chance they get. It's their problem the cream of their crop is Ted Nugent (two good songs in the 70s) and Jon Voight (a legitimately great actor).
I went a re-read a couple of them, and it turns out that there is not only a big-tech and big-media conspiracy against Trump (apparently making it a "not-level" playing field) but a term I had never heard before, which is "big-music".
You haven't gotten very far down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, haven't you? Here's a term that you probably haven't heard before: Big Paleo. As in, people who believe that dinosaurs are fake and that paleontologists have been making top dollar since the 19th century up until today.
As someone who comes from a family of biologists, that is one of the most insane things I have ever heard.
Comments
Republicans are the worst we've got.
They could easily happen too since they arguably started this plan in motion by stealing a Supreme Court seat. Now they only need 5 of the ethically challenged extreme partisan hack right wingers on the bench to go along with the coup. That's why Mitch McConnell and Trump put them there... We'll see.
Court isn't touching any of this, thank god. If they aren't taking the Pennsylvania case, they absolutely are not going to entertain the idea that Texas can sue other states because their results weren't to their liking. But think of what they are insisting here. This is yet ANOTHER argument in favor of getting rid of the Electoral College. Because now Republicans don't even believe blue states should be able to administer their own elections.
But the point is clear. Just because something is destined to be unsuccessful doesn't mean it's not dangerous. These are the highest Republican office holders in the country outside of the Senate. More of them than not want to overturn the election, based on nothing. One can only assume they don't believe in elections at all, only winning.
You've got a lot of faith in hyper partisans on the Supreme Court.
Alito, Kavanaugh, and Thomas are unprincipled hyper Republican partisan hacks, no question. They just need one more vote from the other 3 conservatives. Roberts and Gorsuch both seem to be just conservative ideologues but don't appear to be wearing partisan blinders.
So the fate of Democracy in the United States and this coup rests on Amy Covid Barrett who posed with Trump for a campaign photo directly after being confirmed on a partisan vote from Senate Republicans 8 days before the election wasn't it?
That's a hell of a lot of faith in someone that doesn't appear to deserve it if you ask me.
Edit:maybe my math is wrong, you'd need those three plus ACB plus one more. Damn that margin is still too close.
I have suspicions Barrett, Kavanaugh, Alito or Thomas might rule for Trump if they actually took a case. I think Roberts is determined not to let it even be an issue. I think they've reached a general consensus that this is way too hot to touch and aren't going to get dragged into it.
Republicans are asking for nothing less than EVERY vote in at least 4 states be be thrown out. John Roberts may be right-wing, he doesn't want to the guy who ends the Republic. Many people already view the court as illegitimate. They have a 6-3 majority for the next decade (likely two). They don't need Donald Trump, but they do need to retain an OUNCE of legitimacy, which they absolutely won't have if they unilaterally overturn national election results.
Let’s assume the worst. That the Supreme Court does side with Texas on this matter and those Electoral Votes are thrown out.
Doesn’t that mean Pelosi becomes President? That isn’t the outcome Alito and company would want.
Dont think that's what happens. If the EVs were just thrown out, then neither candidate would have 270 votes. In that instance, it goes to the House of Representatives, where each house "delegation" (meaning, state) gets a vote. In that instance, Trump is installed as dictator President.
Thomas and Alito are horrific. I wouldnt be surprised if this was a 4-5 with Gorsuch the only one willing to help Roberts forestall the death of Federalism.
Well. I dont have any evidence of that. For now, my ire is contained just to Alito and Thomas.
So anyway what are the odds that Trump will now tell us that actually this Texas case wasn't THE BIG ONE after all and the next lawsuit will actually be the real one for reals that will overthrow the election results and they've totally been saving the REAL evidence...
The issue with the Supreme Court isn't even the politics of any one justice. It's that every Obama voter in the country had that pick stolen from them and handed to Trump, and then ANOTHER one taken when they did a complete 180 on their EXACT reason for denying Garland. The court would STILL be 5-4 conservative right now if Obama had gotten a pick (ANY pick). Scalia and Ginsberg would have cancelled each other out, and we'd be back to square one. And no one would be bitching about it once the nomination was approved. But since the theft of the seat cannot be rectified, I'll keep talking about it until it is.
We won the 2012 Presidential Election. Apparently losses only have consequences for Democrats. Which is quite evident by what we are seeing just today. The Supreme Court seat theft was just a Caesar salad before main prime rib course of trying to end democracy. This wasn't a splinter cell that signed onto this lawsuit. It was the majority of elected Republicans writ large.
You can probably correctly say alot of these people signed on because they are terrified of Trump. That's doesn't make it better. It means they were willing to usher in a dictatorship to avoid a primary challenge. I don't care what their private stance on Trump is. They are public officials, and what they do in public is what matters. And they signed their name to this thing. Come to think of it, since they apparently don't believe in voting, why the hell do they care about a possible primary challenge??
We know this has all been kabuki theater. 10s of millions of people think it's quite real and legitimate. Probably nearly 50 million people. In the end, these Representatives are listening to their constituents call their offices asking them why they aren't doing more to throw the election to Trump.
These justices are not selected from the heritage Foundation think tanks for the brains, logic and independence.
Kavanaugh openly admitted he was a partisan hack and vowed revenge on Democrats during his confirmation hearing. When someone tells you who they are you have to believe them.
America survives to die another day.
I might have vowed revenge too if I had been treated like he was. Lots of things are said in the heat of the moment. When the emotion fades, so do the words.
Hard meh here. What I see is that the president was openly saying exactly what most progressives feared: That the 3 appointees to the court he added (one stolen) should bail him out and overturn the election simple because he lost it. If anything, his actions validate the idea that this was one of his endgames.
The two reasons why it didnt were A) - He had no leverage over them after they had been confirmed. They didnt really have to do anything for him
B ) - the election wasnt nearly close enough for it to be stolen without delegitimizing every single institution in the US government. If we had something closer to 2000, with Trump narrowly losing one state (say, Georgia) that cost him the election by a few thousand votes - I'm not convinced we would have seen the SCOTUS stop him from stealing the election.
So, for now, the SCOTUS has passed the very (very) low bar of stopping an attempted coup. Not sure it deserves plaudits.
As a side note - @jjstraka34 made the point earlier that by preserving their legitimacy on this issue, the SCOTUS will have more of a free hand to push conservatives changes down the line.
I miss the days of Obama, as hard as that is for me to say. He was charismatic sure, but you hardly ever heard from him and you hoped that the government was working for the greater good. I did not agree with a lot of what he represented but, you know... I want those days back.
I feel like the world has taken a turn to the dark. Like a serious right hand, never looking back turn. We have seen a turning point, beyond partisanship to where things seem like they will never be the same again. I feel like Arthur C Clarke’s, A Childhood’s End, everything is leading away from anything good. Where everything we look at from here after will be something we don’t understand, and to be honest, scary.
There is good though, you all have shown me that. I am not without hope, just think that doing the right thing is not very popular right now. Maybe it never was but maybe one day it will be. I hope I live to see it.
Politics are a world ending meme right now. I hope that this is just a cyclical happening but it feels different. I hope that I am wrong.
Alito and Thomas published a statement saying they would have allowed a bill of complaint to be filed. However, such statements are not required as part of determining cases. We know that a majority of the court refused to accept the case, but we don't know what position Kavanaugh and Comey-Barrett took on that.
Treated like what? The unhinged lying frat bro he is? The dude sexually assaulted women. The Barr justice department investigation was a joke.
Someone with Kavanaugh's disgusting performance does not, does not, belong on the Supreme Court. Not at all, that's just based on his performance at the hearings.
If he can't handle a tough situation without crying, ranting like a lunatic, and screaming then he doesn't have the temperament to be a Supreme Court Justice. His confirmation in particular cemented the ridiculous nature of the new Supreme Court. It's a kangaroo court now.
They didn't destroy the Republic today, that's a low hurdle cleared. Hooray.
Some years ago, I wrote a book arguing that Democrats should learn from the things Republicans did well. One of these was that the GOP had a simple foundation of shared beliefs that could be easily communicated to voters. Ask a Republican running for any office from dogcatcher all the way up to president what it meant to be a conservative, and they’d tick off some version of the same four pillars: small government, low taxes, a strong military and traditional social values.
Conservatives still believe in those things. But no one could seriously argue that they are any longer the animating purpose of the Republican Party. Instead, the one thing that unites the right and drives the GOP is hatred of liberals. That hatred has consumed every policy goal, every ideological principle and even every ounce of commitment to country.
“But Democrats hate conservatives, too!” you might say. Indeed they do. Negative partisanship — being more motivated by your dislike of the other party than by affection for your own — is a key feature of contemporary politics. But when 18 Republican state attorneys general, more than half of House Republicans and multiple conservative organizations all demand that the results of a presidential election where no fraud was found be simply tossed aside so that Trump can be declared winner, something more profound has been revealed.
The Republican Party has proved that its hatred of liberals is so foundational that it will abandon any pretense of commitment to democracy, if democracy allows for the possibility that liberals might win an election. They have come to regard Democratic voters as essentially undeserving of having their will translated into power, no matter how large their numbers.
They might have believed it before, but now they’re willing to proclaim it even after they just lost a presidential election by 7 million votes and a 306-232 electoral college margin. Forget all that inspiring talk about the genius of the Framers and their vision for democracy; if having an election means that the people we hate might win, then the election must simply be nullified.
You might say that the Republican officials signing on to this deeply anti-American crusade are doing so out of fear as much as conviction, but the two are not mutually exclusive. All elected officials worry about contradicting their base, but in today’s Republican Party, that worry is almost completely divorced from policy. Yes, you’d get flak if you voted to raise taxes, but the greatest danger comes from failing to fight the left with sufficient vigor.
That danger, furthermore, is not only electoral but physical; the Republican leader in the Pennsylvania state Senate said this week that if she refused to sign a letter demanding that Congress toss out her state’s votes in the presidential race, “I’d get my house bombed tonight.” It might not actually happen, but the point is that Republican officeholders understand well what their party values above all else and what kinds of transgressions will not be tolerated.
Trump has often cited the extraordinary loyalty he has received from his party’s voters; it’s one of the few things he says that’s true. But it isn’t because Trump signed a corporate tax cut and slashed environmental regulations.
When you ask the typical Trump supporter what they love about him, they don’t mention some substantive policy position; what they say is that he is a fighter. The petty squabbles, the insulting tweets, the deranged conspiracy theories — the things that the Never Trumpers and most other Americans find off-putting are exactly what endears him to the Republican base.
Trump fights and fights, angrily, bitterly, endlessly driven forward by his hatred of the people his supporters hate. That’s what the base loves, and every other Republican knows it.
Everything about the election that just ended reinforced for conservatives that nothing is more important than hating liberals. The rhetoric of the 2020 campaign, starting with Trump but going all the way down the ballot, was that if Democrats were elected, then it would not be suboptimal or bad or even terrible, but the end of everything you care about. Towns and cities would burn, religion would be outlawed, America as we know it would cease to exist. These horrors were not presented as metaphors, but as the literal truth. In the face of that potential apocalypse, who could possibly care about mundane policy goals? So no Republican argued that if we didn’t cut the capital gains tax then it would be the end of life as we know it. They want to cut the capital gains tax, sure — but its importance pales next to the urgency of stopping the cataclysm that would engulf us all if Democrats were to hold power.
To be clear, there are still thoughtful conservatives out there trying to advance a coherent ideological project. But seldom have they mattered less to their movement and their party. They may produce white papers on free-market health-care solutions or innovative tax plans, but no one really cares.
If it doesn’t Own the Libs, it doesn’t matter on the right. That’s what the Republican Party and the conservative movement are about today, and it might take a long time for them to change.
Nope, that about sums it up. My sister thinks liberals literally drink the blood of babies and run child prostitution rings. Oh, and that CERN is trying to open a portal to Hell to summon demons.
I just think liberals are a little naive and there will be unforeseen consequences for some of their policies if implemented. I've never hated anybody over their politics though. Guess I'm just not a man of the times.
So Cernd abandoned druidism? Or does he think that the devils from Baator are part of Nature just like any other creature?
I wish my sister played BG so she'd get comedy like that. Unfortunately, she's so dogmatic that most humor is lost on her...
Edit: Amusingly, about a hundred pages ago in this thread, I referred to CERN as CERND. Maybe I've been playing too many video games! ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN_ritual_hoax
Even I didn't know that they were trying to raise the 'Ancient Ones'. I guess Lovecraft was a prophet after all. Who knew? ?
This is like if everyone who watched "True Detective" thought the video Rust has Marty watch in the garage was real. I mean, I guess it's ok to fall for the Blair Witch marketing campaign for 5 minutes, but anything beyond that, you have serious problems. And if by chance anyone HASN'T watched the first season of "True Detective", cancel all your weekend plans and binge it. Just skip Season 2 entirely.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/12/13/letter-to-washington-20-americans-explain-2020-election-433756
That's rough. The recovery from this second wave of COVID will be hampered by a hard Brexit.
About what I'd expect. At least four of the Trump voters believe the election was stolen (one even thinks it's Republicans who have an uphill climb because of baked-in election fraud each cycle). None of them even give a cursory reason or theory as to why this is apparently the case. No such equally crazy sentiment exists among the Biden voters profiled. And, of course, they are very offended no one understands them. While one of them takes offense to everyone thinking right-wingers are homophobic or against LGBGTQ rights, two of the others use lines like "men becoming women and women becoming men" and the ever-faithful "gay values shoved down our throat", as if allowing other people to live with the same rights is a personal daily burden for them.
They don't like that we're "smug". I'll continue to be smug as long as they hold these views on gay rights. They say we believe we're always right. Well, maybe not always, but we were right about Bush, and we were sure as shit right about Trump, so we've been able to discern the likelihood of impending disaster for the last 20 years. I guess I'm just out of fucks to give in regards to perceived slights in the wake of COVID-19.
I went and re-read a couple of them, and it turns out that there is not only a big-tech and big-media conspiracy against Trump (apparently making it a "not-level" playing field) but a term I had never heard before, which is "big-music". Presumably because Taylor Swift and Billy Eilish told people they should register to vote. Conservatives have been bitching about not being able to effect culture for my entire life. Maybe they should focus on the fact that, on the macro-level, they simply don't really produce any artists who make anything that's worth a damn. Conservatives actually LOVE celebrities. They have elected two of them in the last forty years. They trot them out every chance they get. It's their problem the cream of their crop is Ted Nugent (two good songs in the 70s) and Jon Voight (a legitimately great actor).
You haven't gotten very far down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, haven't you? Here's a term that you probably haven't heard before: Big Paleo. As in, people who believe that dinosaurs are fake and that paleontologists have been making top dollar since the 19th century up until today.
As someone who comes from a family of biologists, that is one of the most insane things I have ever heard.