Why game journalists hate good RPGs?
SorcererV1ct0r
Member Posts: 2,176
The most famous gaming sites are IGN and gamespot. According to IGN, pathfinder kingmaker is a 6,8/10[1] and according to gamespot is 6/10[2], at the same time according to IGN diablo 3 is a 9,5/10 and DA:I is 8.8/10. According to IGN, Dragon Age Inquisition is better than Dragon Age Origins, and according to gamespot, baldur's gate 2 is just 7/10[3] while dragon age inquisition is 9/10[4]. Inquisition barely have any rpg element compared to origins or to bg2.
According to a reviewer of the most recent crpg.
IF you decided to go into a dungeon without resources to do it... Is your own fault. Deal with the consequences of your bad decision. If you decided to waste feats, is your fault, if you created an wizard with low INT, is your own fault... Not mention, the gamespot mentioned that "Combat can be unforgiving" and that the game require reading as a negative. Doesn't matter if the game have very low difficulty setting that they recommend for people not used to RPG. You can take only 20% of damage on the easiest difficulty.
I honestly think that is a problem of recent journalism. Baldur's Gate(classic) have an metascore of 91[5] while baldur's gate enhanced edition have an metascore of 78[6], apparently modern journalists are different than old journalists.
Outside of the traditional RPG, on aRPG the same happens. IGN heavily criticized Path of Exile while scored 95 to d3[7] and d3 is not a RPG. Sorry, but a game where reaching max level is just a tutorial and every character is a clone with different gear and monks/casters needs an big and sharp axe to have strong attacks(note that the axe disappears during animations) is kinda silly. I know that some people say that aRPG are not true rpg but at least on d1, a caster become better at a spell by reading tomes and on d2 by investing skillpoints instead of by finding an bigger and sharper axe(d3).
He mentioned about 2:22 that having to have gear with elemental resistance to fight elemental damage dealing bosses is a problem... Note that Path of Exile is not a niche game. According to steamcharts, is the 20th most played game on steam according to steamcharts at this moment[8]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbU27ITv5k8
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Apparently having to deal with consequences, having an in depth character progression and customization, having challenges, having to use your brain instead of a cod-like mindless rushing on the enemy is a cons to most journalists...
sources :
1 : https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/10/17/pathfinder-kingmaker-review
2 : https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/pathfinder-kingmaker-review-the-classics/1900-6417006/
3 : https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/baldur-s-gate-ii-enhanced-edition-review/1900-6415606/
4 : https://www.gamespot.com/dragon-age-inquisition/
5 : https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/baldurs-gate
6 : https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/baldurs-gate-enhanced-edition
7 : https://www.ign.com/games/diablo-iii
8 : https://steamcharts.com/top
According to a reviewer of the most recent crpg.
My worst defeats, the kind a tweak in strategy or methodology couldn’t save me from, came from being ground down by long dungeons and hordes of enemies that applied “permanent” debuffs that could only be removed by resting. Without rations, there is no resting in these labyrinths, and watching my very limited supply of rations dwindle became a doomsday clock. I stayed in some dungeons for hours, slogging through the same encounters and situations, dying again and again, only to conclude that I just didn’t kit out properly or bring enough supplies. Thus, I had to abandon all progress and load a save where I could re-provision before giving it another go, wiser and considerably more annoyed.
IF you decided to go into a dungeon without resources to do it... Is your own fault. Deal with the consequences of your bad decision. If you decided to waste feats, is your fault, if you created an wizard with low INT, is your own fault... Not mention, the gamespot mentioned that "Combat can be unforgiving" and that the game require reading as a negative. Doesn't matter if the game have very low difficulty setting that they recommend for people not used to RPG. You can take only 20% of damage on the easiest difficulty.
I honestly think that is a problem of recent journalism. Baldur's Gate(classic) have an metascore of 91[5] while baldur's gate enhanced edition have an metascore of 78[6], apparently modern journalists are different than old journalists.
Outside of the traditional RPG, on aRPG the same happens. IGN heavily criticized Path of Exile while scored 95 to d3[7] and d3 is not a RPG. Sorry, but a game where reaching max level is just a tutorial and every character is a clone with different gear and monks/casters needs an big and sharp axe to have strong attacks(note that the axe disappears during animations) is kinda silly. I know that some people say that aRPG are not true rpg but at least on d1, a caster become better at a spell by reading tomes and on d2 by investing skillpoints instead of by finding an bigger and sharper axe(d3).
He mentioned about 2:22 that having to have gear with elemental resistance to fight elemental damage dealing bosses is a problem... Note that Path of Exile is not a niche game. According to steamcharts, is the 20th most played game on steam according to steamcharts at this moment[8]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbU27ITv5k8--------------------------------
Apparently having to deal with consequences, having an in depth character progression and customization, having challenges, having to use your brain instead of a cod-like mindless rushing on the enemy is a cons to most journalists...
sources :
1 : https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/10/17/pathfinder-kingmaker-review
2 : https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/pathfinder-kingmaker-review-the-classics/1900-6417006/
3 : https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/baldur-s-gate-ii-enhanced-edition-review/1900-6415606/
4 : https://www.gamespot.com/dragon-age-inquisition/
5 : https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/baldurs-gate
6 : https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/baldurs-gate-enhanced-edition
7 : https://www.ign.com/games/diablo-iii
8 : https://steamcharts.com/top
5
Comments
back in the day the bg series was great for its time, one might even say "revolutionary" but the problem is, that is no longer the case
now adays game have to have certain "criteria" to be "good" which blows me away, because good gameplay is more important to me than "this is how we do things these days and you better like it" ugh so distasteful
so that is why in general newer games that keep up with that AAA formula are going to get better reviews than games that have more of a "nostalgic feel" to it regardless on how good the "nostalgia" game is
but also with that being said, pathfinder came out with an atrocious amount of bugs to the point were it was almost unplayable, bugs do happen upon release, but the bug mess that was pathfinder really hurt it, perhaps if it wasn't so buggy on release it would have scored better, problem with some reviews is that the reviews will play the game as soon as it comes out, play for maybe a week, and then never touch it again giving their affirmative review despite the fact if pathfinder was getting better bug wise
all we can do is be lucky that we know of the gems that are the BG series and the like and know that we have a special little treasure to ourselves knowing that we are playing actual FUN games, not just AAA mildew greasing up our playing devices with sadness
On tabletop market, when D&D abandoned his roots to try be more generic and """modern""" with 4th edition, it failed miserably. About Pathfinder Kingmaker, i agree that is a bugfest but journalists din't mentioned bugs, the fact that the game requires reading, thinking and planning is a con for journalists. Not mention, that Pathfinder Kingmaker recommends easy/story difficulty for new players on the genre.
I like classic RPG because they make sense. There are no mechanics like cooldown, attributes too inflated that doesn't reflect anything, actions have consequences, you need to think a little, etc is not just by nostalgia. I don't like that on skyrim nothing that you do have consequences. You killed the emperor? Can join in the imperial legion and it have no consequence. Saved the world destroying the world slaying dragon god? Everyone treats you like when you are a lv 1. Wanna be the archmage? You dosn't need to have any spell knowledge. Conan the barbarian can be the archmage on Skyrim.
My first RPG was Might & Magic VII For blood and honor. In that time i was a child incapable of reading on English, took an eternity to leave emeral island and i managed to realize that buff my fire resistance to fight monsters with high fire damage on certain parts is a good idea. This is not something hard, but for some journalists, a game where resistances, casting speed, etc matters instead of only your weapon damage like d3 is a "flaw"...
I saw people complaining that they can't kill a Troll with a sword, and that skeletons are resistant to blades on pathfinder kingmaker. Doesn't matter if the game tells you on dialogs about what can kill trolls and makes sense that a bone creature will be resistant to slashing damage. What is the next? "i can't kill a fire elemental with fire spell"?
There are many elements I like about the game, but there is a lot of tediousness as well.
In a RPG, I shouldn't have to optimize a character. I should be able to create a Role and Play the Game.
The role I choose to play shouldn't hinder me. Every skill and Feat I choose, I should be able to utilize in the game when I am able to choose it. If it is a useless feat it shouldn't be in the game. If the role I choose to play doesn't fit then it shouldn't have been an option.
Higher difficulty levels should be for optimized characters after mastering the rule set.
There are also steep difficulty curves in the same areas/dungeons.
And poor story telling elements:
If you're not familiar with the rule set, it is a lot to learn in a short period of time. Creating my character I read just about the races and then the quick blurb on each class (and subclass) and went with that. I didn't want to click through every feat that the page showed me because I wanted to play a game, not learn all the rules to pathfinder first and then play. The UI for the class screen and level up screen is a cluster of information overload that could have been laid out in a more appealing way.
Now don't get me wrong. I am enjoying the game, but it is leaving me with a sense of it could have been better, hence the low score. Add in the bugs that still persist and it is even a lower score than that.
I would only recommend this game to people who like Isometric games and are already fully familiar with 3e D&D or Pathfinder setting. If people are not familiar with these settings, I would recommend other games to play first, and then make their way to Pathfinder.
now adays, "RPGs" are all about the DPS, apparently in 2018 the term "RPG" means if there is XP points and leveling up that is an RPG, and to me that is crap, like those games with "RPG" elements
we need a new term for the newer "RPGs", i believe there was a discussion somewhere on this forum about this where "RPGs" now adays arent RPGs as in you dont play a role, you just kill stuff, get XP points, and grow up levels
i think we need to call this type of game "Grind Simulators" which is basically what they are, because in all honesty there is no real difference between a fighter, mage or cleric in these grind simulators, everyone is dishing out the same amount of damage, with maybe a couple of almost useless different abilities to make the classes "feel" different, in Grind Simulators there is only one thing that matters, and one thing only: DPS dishing out those 12 digits of numbers vs baddies that have 13-14 digits of health, and that is another stigma of today's RPGs or just games of that caliber in general, this "unnecessarily bigger numbers is better" nonsense
man does that annoy the urine right out of me, what is the point of doing a 12 digit number in damage vs a baddie that has 14 digits in number of HP when you can just do single numbers worth of damage vs an enemy with 100 HP? somehow the AAA gaming industry has made it "cool" and "fun" to do an absurd amount of damage against bad guys with absurd amounts of HP to justify the grind simulator of grinding better items to do more damage against bad guys with more HP and the even more ironic thing is, most of these games you replay the game over and OVER again so you can have the option of dealing even MORE damage to baddies with even MORE HP, WHY?!?!?!
That's not to say that there aren't exceptions, it's just the mainstream is ruled by mass appeal and the bulk of entertainment has always been bland and forgettable. Who remembers the dime novels from the 19th century? They were immensely popular at the time, but none of them really live on. People remember fantastic films from earlier eras, but forget that most flicks from every period actually sucked. Nobody remembers Zero Hour, the film that Airplane! parodies, but there's a fanbase that remembers Airplane! and other movies they did, because the parodies wound up being better than than what they were making fun of.
About a warnning, if you are a necromancer creating an undead army to protect you, will your put weaker skeletons to be a warnning? The dungeon design is as it should be. Some dungeons are a little confuse and some puzzles are annoying but you can easily reload your save and come with a better strategy or adjust the difficulty.
Note that i din't talked only about PK, i talked about a lot of games. Dragon Age in special, how a game journalist can give a higher score to inquisition over origins?
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And DrHappyAngry , you are right.
Anyway, game journalists doesn't represent the public. GOG score for PK is 4.7 /5 from verified owners rating, for critics is 7 according to metacritic.
The biggest example IMHO is diablo 3. Compare user with critic score
About building character effectively, all of my characters on kingmaker are roleplay characters. What i mean by that? I created an silver dragon sorcerer, i will avoid get fire based spells, doesn't matter if i will fight enemies who are resistant or even immune to cold damage. If i die, i reload and try again, if i can't find a strategy to beat then, i will lower the difficulty.
Pathfinder Kingmaker, Icewind Dale EE, Baldur's Gate EE, etc, etc, etc; ALL of then have very low difficulty settings. But no, people wanna play cRPGs on hardest difficulty possible without reading a single line about the rules, is like trying to play competitive Chess without knowing about anything about Chess rules.
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I play RPG to fell myself on another fantasy world, i wanna rules that makes sense, i wanna actions and consequences and if i did a mistake, i should face consequences.
Unfortunately I feel like the number of people who like challenge and complexity are decreasing each day. People generally have no patience, they just want to plug in, kill monsters for half hour or so and then get out. I think this is related to the general lifestyle we have in real life as well. Not enough time to do anything, do things fast, consume fast, and move on. The attention span in the society in general keeps getting shorter, which I believe has a big role in this.
Reading books and lore in an Rpg, learning the rules and elements of the game to improve and get into the atmosphere can become tedious for most people. For me, that's where the fun is. When I play a game, I want to get lost in that world for hours. I want the game to challenge me, force me to look for solutions, preferably with realistic/consistent gameplay elements, like the ones in pathfinder. And then potentially play it again for the things I could have done differently. That's why I love old school rpgs. But there are many people who don't have the patience for this, and find it tedious. Funny, M&M 7 was my first Rpg as well, and I didn't know any English at that time either. I played the whole game with a dictionary in my hand, and learned English mostly from playing RPGs.
Scaling them all to scores out of 10:
* GOG verified purchasers: 7.4
* Metacritic users: 7.8
* Metacritic critics: 7.1
Most of the critic reviews say if you like BG/IWD, you'll like Pathfinder. They point out, however, the same issues that the top GOG user reviews point out: bugs, performance issues, game balance issues. Seems pretty well in agreement.
https://www.gog.com/game/pathfinder_kingmaker_explorer_edition
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/pathfinder-kingmaker
and look to path of exile https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/path-of-exile Well, if this is the game, i think that people who like cRPG and in depth experience still very big. More younger people tends to not like it due the lack of patience and the fact that they are too used to console an mobile games.
Divinity Original sin, Pathfinder Kingmaker, Path of Exile, are all on top 100 most played steam games.
The lack of time can be a problem for those who enjoy cRPG, for example, i had an harsh routine in 2016. Work 8 to 17h, then train at gym until 18:20 then study until near midnight, on weekend i usually hang out or spend my little time with my girlfriend(Ex girlfriend now) purchased M&M VIII Day of the destroyer and took more than half of a year to complete the game, almost 2/3 of a year... But the little time that i "lost" on the game, i fell like i was in another world... Doesn't matter how IRL i was fatigued, exhausted and frustrated. 20-30 minutes after i wake up was enough to "refresh my mind"...
PS : Even get out of Emerald island was hard to me thanks to my lack of english knowledge Most critiques to D3 still valide for today's D3. Doesn't matter how much the game changed, still not diablo and still a game of inflating your weapon damage to fight with more inflated hp mobs.
Examples? Some high "helpful" user reviews on metacritic. As you can see, the critique is the wow-cartoonish graphics, lack of in depth character customization, lack of choices, etc
The company took almost every single thing that made the Diablo Series and removed it from the game.
It is now a hollow shell resembling that which Diablo once was.
38 of 39 users found this helpful
Lokitana
Game driven by Blizz' greediness . Every change they make reflects it fully .
I've played D2 a decade ago, but this seems more like a miniature WoW rather than a hack and slash. Where you can just brag about your gear and call anyone with lower stats a noob, other than that not much to do.
Also this system of taxes in both GAH and RMAH makes you feel you're some kinda Blizzard employee and in fact you are making money for them . Just like drug dealers do . Collapse
19 of 21 users found this helpfu
Georgb
Cartoonish WoW-ish graphics on Diablo story & gameplay looks like those indie clones.
Even Titanfall after release was more exciting than Diablo III. Sad that Blizzard thinks about new generation of kids and doesn't care about oldschool gamers.
I've played Diablo 1, Diablo II and later fell in love with Diablo II: Lord Of Destruction in which I spent a lot of time replaying it.
Blizzard, don't screw up with D2 remaster!
FunkyGodzilla
No depth, all grind
(...)
almost no customization whatsoever because there is hardly any real character "builds" to speak of in this game.
there is no stat leveling, it's auto
there is no skill leveling, you can swap them out at any time
gear is all sets at end game, so instead of choosing 7-8 pieces of gear catering to your build or play style you basically choose ONE piece of gear then go the play style blizzard wants you to play.
Honestly this game is just straight up INSULTING to actual lovers of the action-rpg genre
this is not diablo
this is not a real action rpg
at BEST and if you take it for what it is, it's a decent isometric arcade beatem up.
it was basically the next gauntlet game.
Only good a-rpg I can see coming maybe lineage eternal or lost ark. A real drought lately.
Grim dawn was pretty fun.
Torchlight 2 was great, could have been perfect with just a tad bit more content but overall awesome game.
Wasn't a fan of POE
Blizzard please never touch a diablo game ever again, let someone else develop the next one.
6 of 6 users found this helpful
Thazari
Lacks all the features that made diablo 2 great. Hardly any randomization in levels, boring stat system where only one stat per character class is important, no real character builds with skills and so on, dumb boss fights with cutscenes, no nice loot runs and it had a stupid real money auction house at launch as well which is just moneygrubbing.
soulpain
I've never been so disappointed in a game. The complete opposite of everything I loved about Diablo 2. Just putting the Diablo name on this is false advertisement. The least proactive character development imaginable. No atmosphere. Seems to prefer catering to kids at the expense of others. There is nothing here for me. $60 down the drain. Booo !!!
5 of 5 users found this helpful
Nobody who owns an car's magazine will hire an guy who doesn't know how to drive and doesn't know anything about cars to review cars. About people who love good RPG, they aren't minority depending the country. Gothic for example have most of his mods on non English.
Regarding of gothic its no doubt that gothic is popular in german but outside that? In my country its sooo hard to find people who ever played gothic 1 or 2 even people who ever play baldur's gate are very little here
M&M VIII = 6.5 - https://www.ign.com/articles/2000/03/23/might-and-magic-viii-day-of-the-destroyer
M&M X Legacy - 7.3 https://www.ign.com/articles/2014/01/28/might-and-magic-x-legacy-review
M&M IX - 6,7 https://www.ign.com/games/might-and-magic-ix
So yes, for IGN an ultra linear game is better than an good cRPG. At least they writed an good score on M&M VI ( https://www.ign.com/articles/1998/08/12/might-and-magic-vi-the-mandate-of-heaven )
P:K Allow you to play on easy/story mode who are both very easy. I don't know why so many people complain about difficulty...
One or two low tier spells can make tought encounters into a cakewalk.
As such a 100+ hour epic RPG represents a lot of work for little reward.