Shadow Door vs. Improved Invisibility
Rik_Kirtaniya
Member Posts: 1,742
Shadow Door does the exact same thing as Improved Invisibility, but it's one level higher than Improved Invisibility. To make it worse, it also lasts three rounds less than Improved Invisibility. The only advantage is that it has a casting time of 2, while Improved Invisibility has a casting time of 4, but then again, with the Robe of Vecna, it becomes immaterial.
So, is there any reason to justify taking Shadow Door, which is at a higher level, when you can do the same thing with Improved Invisibility at one level lower?
So, is there any reason to justify taking Shadow Door, which is at a higher level, when you can do the same thing with Improved Invisibility at one level lower?
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in bg1 i can see that being the scenario, but realistically in bg2 there are some killer great level 5 spells ( well actually there are in bg1 as well ) but at least in bg2 you will have about the same amount of slots for level 4 and 5 while in bg1 sometimes level 5 slots can be rare with level 4 slots being more plentiful
ironically enough i have cast shadow door more times than i have cast improved invisibility in my play throughs and it was mostly do to the paragraph i first mentioned
another thing i suppose is that globe of invulnerability makes you immune to improved invisibility but not shadow door, maybe that is why liches use shadow door instead?
According to that, if someone having a Globe of Invulnerability on him, casted Improved Invisibility on himself, it should still affect him, for he is both the caster and the subject.
Maybe liches like the fancy animation effects of Shadow Door?
uh dynaheir, her ultimate weakenss, being surrounded by 10 archer enemies, and as soon as you unpause the game, she dies instantly, good times...... good times
1. Improved Invisibility can be cast on other party members; Shadow Door is on-self only
2. Improved Invisibility lasts 3 rounds longer
3. Shadow Door has a casting time of 2; Improved Invisibility has a casting time of 4.
Globe of Invulnerability will indeed block Improved Invisibility, but only if cast by someone else, which Shadow Door can't do anyway.
The only advantage of Shadow Door is its shorter casting time, but it's already identical to the equally-effective escape option, Invisibility, at level 2. It's worth memorizing Shadow Door if you're more strapped for level 2 and 4 spells than level 5 spells, but that would be extremely situational. There aren't even any divination spells that will dispel Improved Invisibility but fail to dispel Shadow Door.
Long story short, there are times when it's better to have Shadow Door, but they are extremely rare, extremely specific, and the advantage would be extremely small. Improved Invisibility is nearly always the better choice across the board.
Level 4 the only spells I memorise are Stoneskin and Improved Invisibility. There are a few half-decent other spells at this level but nothing that cuts the mustard. Along with level 1 and level 2, it is the level where there is least competition for spell slots. No tough choices needed.
Level 5 on the other hand...along with level 6, these are the levels with the most intense spell competition, where it is really tough to decide and where you can never have enough slots. You can fill out your level 5 slots with Spell Immunity and Spell Shield alone and you would never be wrong to do this; it’s almost the default choice to go 67% Spell Immunity 33% Spell Shield. Situationally or if you have enough slots there are a whole bunch of level 5 spells that you would always want to memorise: Breach, Animate Dead (for solo), Lower Resistance, Chaos, Cloudkill, Sunfire etc. Frankly I have no idea what anyone who goes for Shadow Door here is thinking.
For me, level 5 is not that filled.
- Spell immunity, 1.
- Spell shield: rare encounters
- breach, 1-2, but only until I get the wands or a secondary mage, then rarely until Alacrity, then 1 again.
- lower resistance, 1-2 against some foes and even then only until I get pierce
- shadow door, 1
- animate dead, no, on cleric
- chaos, I prefer emotion
- cloudkill, no, I have wands
- sunfire, rare encounters
- hold monster, some encounters
- oracle, scrolls or true sight
Whereas level 4
- stoneskin, always 2 (backup and a new before rest because I don't sleep twice in a row)
- secret word, 1-2, it takes down almost everything. For higher level dispels I do ruby ray before secret words.
- Greater malison, 1-2, because I like many other save or else spells on different casting levels
- emotion, always 1
- fireshields, some encounters
- minor sequencer, 1
- teleportation field, some encounters
- polymorph spells, regular encounters
- improved invisibility, only 1 if I need to buff a warrior in tactical mod, but often I default to mass invisibility for that.
I still wonder what it would have been like if 2nd Ed. AD&D had not absorbed Illusionists as a school of the Mage class. I liked the idea of unique spell capabilities, rather than having a generalist knowing everything. But that is all so many editions ago now!
Shadow dancer lvl 13 -> mage = HIPs + 4 x backstab. HIPs is neither an ability nor a spell, so it cannot fizzle, doesn't take up any spell slot AND is unaffected by the 1 spell / round rule (although it takes one round to recover but whatever). Spell + attack + HIPs can all be done in one round.
Also, you will get 80 HP by level 10 instead of 60. Also, you get a better weapon selection. Also, I think there are some mage / thief armor in BGII (but maybe those are all for either elves or bards only? Can't remember).
ALSO, you get two shadowsteps / day. While those are abilities and thus takes your 1 spell / round alotment, you shadowwalk for 7 seconds, meaning that you will regain your spell (unless you are hit so your spell fails), so as soon as the shadowwalk ends, you can follow up with another spell... letting you aggro a horde of enemies and when they descend upon you, you slip into shadows and fireball / explode skull them!
Nah, J/K. The +4 AC bonus from being invisible REALLY helps shadow dancer mages. Use both!!!
A level 8->9 dual takes 70,000 XP to dual and 205,000 XP to recover thief levels. You can reach this in late BG1.
A level 9->10 dual takes 110,000 XP to dual and 360,000 XP to recover thief levels. You can reach this in late SoD.
A level 11-12 dual takes 220,000 XP to dual and 970,000 XP to recover thief levels. You can reach this in early BG2.
A level 13->14 dual takes 660,000 XP to dual and 2,160,000 XP to recover thief levels. You can reach this in late BG2.
By the time the Shadowdancer/Mage hits mage level 14, backstabbing is going to be a minor strength compared to its mage spells, and it won't be much longer before it will barely be backstabbing at all.