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[v3.5] Epic Thieving: More Benefits from High Thieving Skills

OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,282
edited August 27 in General Modding
Epic Thieving

Version 3.5


Single-classed thieves (particularly unkitted ones) are quite boring at high levels. Regardless of how good or bad they are, what makes them boring is that there isn't much for them to do with the high thieving skill stats they have. Since having more than 100 in Open Locks, Find Traps, Detect Illusions, and Set Traps is almost completely pointless, as thieves attain high levels there reaches a point where there isn't much advantage in using a single-classed thief over a multi-classed one, or an unkitted thief over an assassin or bounty hunter, since even the latter can max out their skills one way or another by that point.

This mod has multiple components that give thieves things to do with thieving skills over 100:


Epic Locks

An epic lock is a lock that requires a lockpicking skill of over 100 to pick. This component turns many magical locks that previously couldn't be picked into epic locks that can be picked, allowing for some minor sequence breaking if you have a master lockpicker in your party. Epic locks cannot be unlocked by a Knock spell (that would be too easy); they can only be picked. However, you can still unlock an epic lock through any way it could previously be unlocked (whether by a plot event or using a key), so this component will not make it impossible to complete the game if you don't have a thief. Examples of epic locks in this mod include:

* The drawer in Durlag's Tower that contains the switch for the wine engine (requires 115 Open Locks to unlock)
* The sliding doors on the doppelganger floor in Durlag's Tower (requires 130 Open Locks to unlock)
* The doors in Chateau Irenicus that the Sewage Golem opens (requires 105 Open Locks to unlock)
* The shadow door in the Temple Ruins that was previously impossible to open (requires 130 Open Locks to unlock)
* The gate to Ust Natha (requires 205 Open Locks to unlock)
* And lots of others!







In addition, this component turns a couple of normal locks in the game into epic locks. It does not do this to bar players from obtaining their favorite magic items; it does this only when a lock could be justified in being epic - the only normal lock in Baldur's Gate 1 that this component turns into an epic lock is the lock on the treasury in the Ducal Palace. None of these locks are critical to the plot. I even made a few new unique magic items for some of the newly epic-locked containers! I'll leave it up to you to discover what those magic items are.




Epic Traps

An epic trap, similarly, is a trap that requires a Find Traps skill of over 100 to disarm. The main thing this component does is to turn various non-disarmable triggers in the game into disarmable epic traps. Examples include:

* The trap in Durlag's Tower that releases a fireball each round (requires 110 Find Traps to disarm)
* The traps on the runic carpet in Durlag's Tower (requires 150 Find Traps to disarm)
* The summoning trap on the first floor of the Guarded Compound in Baldur's Gate 2 (requires 155 Find Traps to disarm)
* The fleshy portal traps that transport you into a room in the Planar Prison (requires 230 Find Traps to disarm)
* And many more!






The mod also turns a couple of regular traps into epic traps, mainly in Throne of Bhaal. Some of these traps trigger really cool spells that no one else in the game casts!



Epic Trap Setting

This component overhauls all the trap setting abilities (Set Snare, Set Special Snare, Set Spike Trap, Set Exploding Trap, and Set Time Trap) so that rather than improving based on the thief's level, they improve based on the thief's Set Traps skill. They get more powerful for every 50 Set Traps points the thief has, with the highest threshold being a Set Traps skill of 250 or higher. For characters less skilled at setting traps, the traps will be less powerful than in the base game. However, for characters with extremely high Set Traps skills, the traps will be potentially slightly more powerful than in the base game. In addition, since trap power is no longer based on level, if you have your thief put all of their points into Set Traps at each level up, they could get high-power traps really early (though at the cost of forsaking their other thieving skills).




Epic Pickpocketing

This component does two things. First, it changes the minimum Pick Pockets requirements necessary to steal items that a creature is holding in certain inventory slots. In the base game, it is impossible to steal a creature's helmet, shield, boots, or armor. With this component:

*Stealing a creature's helmet requires at least 105 Pick Pockets
*Stealing a creature's shield/off-hand weapon requires at least 120 Pick Pockets
*Stealing a creature's boots off their feet requires at least 180 Pick Pockets
*Stealing a creature's armor requires at least 290 Pick Pockets (think of this as the thief equivalent of being Elminster).

Even with this component, you cannot steal from a hostile creature. There doesn't seem to be anything I can do about that.

The second thing this component does is allow you to steal from a couple of stores you couldn't steal from before. This is far less comprehensive than the changes to locks and traps in the other components. Only a few stores were changed, mainly some of the major, high-profile stores in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. I'm going to list all of the stores I changed because I don't want you to be afraid when you're about to steal from some random store that I might have made it super-difficult to steal from.

* High Hedge - Stealing Difficulty: 105
* Sorcerous Sundries - Stealing Difficulty: 115
* Thunderhammer Smithy - Stealing Difficulty: 120
* Sorcerous Sundries (in Siege of Dragonspear) - 160 (because there's a whole big crowd of people there)
* Adventurer's Mart (both the regular goods and the secret goods) - 180 (because the Amnian Soldier is watching you carefully the whole time)

For comparison, the hardest store to steal from in Baldur's Gate II normally is the Copper Coronet, with a stealing difficulty of 128. The merchant in Trademeet who sells you the Girdle of Inertial Barrier has a stealing difficulty of 30.

NOTE: How the stealing difficulty works is that you have a 1% chance to steal an item successfully for every 1 point of Pick Pockets you have greater than the stealing difficulty of the store. In order to be able to steal an item from the Adventurer's Mart 100% reliably, you need 280 Pick Pockets (which is still easier than stealing someone's armor).


Epic Detect Illusions

This component makes it so that if a thief has over 100 in Detect Illusions, they have a chance to detect illusions even when they aren't actively trying. A thief will have a 1% chance to passively detect illusions for every 1 point of Detect Illusions above 100.



This component also makes it so that characters with a Detect Illusions skill of at least 100 can effectively see invisible creatures and target them with spells or abilities. This also affects shamans, once they reach 100 Detect Illusions.

New Skill: Use Poison

This component adds a brand new skill to the game: Use Poison! Thieves can put points in this skill like the other skills. Having a high Use Poison skill increases any poison damage dealt by the thief, whether from traps, an assassin's Poison Weapon, or from weapons and missiles that poison the target. Assassins start with +20% to their Use Poison skill. Thieves get +4% to the skill for every point of Intelligence they have over 10.





Before installing this component, you must install EEex, which allows the creation of new thieving skills.

Prevent multiple Potions of Perception or Master Thievery from stacking

Since it would be too easy to deal with these epic locks and traps simply by having your mage-thief chug lots of Potions of Perception and Potions of Master Thievery, this component lets you prevent the effects of more than one Potion of Perception/Master Thievery from stacking.

You can download the latest version of the mod here!

Post edited by OlvynChuru on
UlbBubbStummvonBordwehrSkatanGrammarsaladRik_KirtaniyaGusindaMantis37RaduzielArunsunKuronaswitlolienDJKajuruZaghoulFlashburnPsicoVic
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Comments

  • UlbUlb Member Posts: 287
    This is such a cool idea, definitely going to try this on my next install!

    The only thing I'm not sure about are the gate to Ust Natha and the Planar Prison portals.

    It seems opening the gate's lock wouldn't be the real issue. I think the gate would be well guarded and entering without permission should subsequently turn all drow hostile.

    The prison portals might be traps from a technical pov but I think they are supposed to just be .. well, portals. So "disarming" them with a thief seems weird.

    I think it would be greate if you make all of the more noteworthy locks/traps into separate components so people can pick the ones they like/don't like.

    OlvynChuru
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,282
    @Ulb Thanks for your feedback!
    Ulb said:

    It seems opening the gate's lock wouldn't be the real issue. I think the gate would be well guarded and entering without permission should subsequently turn all drow hostile.

    It does turn all the drow hostile. I intended that. In fact, I actually had to insert a fix to turn the drow hostile if you just go in without being disguised as drow (otherwise they stay neutral because the game assumes that you're disguised initially, since that's normally required in order to get in).

    Don't worry. If you manage to fight your way to the temple of Lolth, you can open the door to the egg chamber (which is also an epic lock) and take the eggs to return to Adalon.
    Ulb said:

    The prison portals might be traps from a technical pov but I think they are supposed to just be .. well, portals. So "disarming" them with a thief seems weird.

    I know it's weird. That's why I made the disarm difficulty so high. Those portals actually have the highest disarm difficulty of any epic trap in this mod.

    However, I did have some standards for what could become a trap. Triggers that don't represent some sort of physical reality (e.g. Flaming Fist low reputation spawns) do not become disarmable traps in this mod.
    Ulb said:

    I think it would be greate if you make all of the more noteworthy locks/traps into separate components so people can pick the ones they like/don't like.

    If it turns out that a lot of the lock/trap choices are controversial, then your idea of components for individual locks/traps might be good. However, if only a few of them are controversial (e.g. the Planar Prison portals), then it might be a better idea for me to simply revert my changes to those locks/traps in the next update.

    BubbSkatanUlb
  • UlbUlb Member Posts: 287

    ..

    It does turn all the drow hostile. I intended that. In fact, I actually had to insert a fix to turn the drow hostile if you just go in without being disguised as drow (otherwise they stay neutral because the game assumes that you're disguised initially, since that's normally required in order to get in).

    Don't worry. If you manage to fight your way to the temple of Lolth, you can open the door to the egg chamber (which is also an epic lock) and take the eggs to return to Adalon.

    Wow, that is even more awesome!
    Now I really feel compelled to experience the pain of trying to get the eggs that way while running SCS on the highest setting..

    Btw, the secret door in the sewers might be another candidate for your mod..

    OlvynChuru
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,282
    @Ulb This mod already turns the door to the sewer mind flayer lair into an epic lock. The example locks and traps I gave in the first post aren't the only ones!

  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 558
    Ooo, what about epic trapping (like, a Set Snare above 100%)?

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,282
    I released the newest version! In Version 2.0, I added the component Epic Trap Setting! I put a description in the opening post.

    You can download the newest version here!

    BubbLudwig_IIGrammarsaladlolien
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,930
    @OlvynChuru Great ideas here. B) I've been using the no stack thing for a while from Tweaks as it forces me to go higher in the skill itself. Any ideas for pickpocket's yet?

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,282
    edited January 17
    @Zaghoul Doesn't having a pickpocketing skill above 100 make it easier to steal from stores that are particularly hard to steal from?

    If not, there are a few other things I could do with pickpocketing. Currently, the EEs do not let you steal items in a creature's armor, boots, helmet, or shield slots. I could make it so that a thief with a pickpocketing skill at least a certain amount could steal from those item slots. Let's say, 105 for helmet, 120 for shield, 180 for boots, and... 290 for armor (it's possible to get that much if you have 250 base skill and use pickpocketing-enhancing items). How about that?

    This would be EE-only, since the non-EE games do not have modifiable skill requirements for stealing items in different slots, and they don't let you go over 255 in a skill without problems.

    ZaghoulLudwig_IIStummvonBordwehr
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,930
    Nice one. That's exactly what I was thinking, as some items have been locked out of ever being PP'ed. I mean if we can PP the scalp off a bandit in BG1 (heh) we might as well steal his sneakers and hat as well. :)

    StummvonBordwehrGrammarsalad
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,282
    @Zaghoul Another thing I could do is make it so that certain stores that previously couldn't be stolen from (e.g. Adventurer's Mart) are now just really difficult to steal from. I'd think that a thief with a Pick Pockets skill of 250 might occasionally be able to steal something without that Amnian Soldier catching it. ;)

    ZaghoulStummvonBordwehrLudwig_IIGrammarsalad
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,930
    Definitely, as that always bugs my PP's when they don't even have a chance to steal something. How do you think these PP changes would affect the option in Rogue Rebalancing to talk oneself out of a failed attempt at stealing/ PP'ing?

  • StefanOStefanO Member Posts: 334
    edited January 18
    Can you provide some randomness for traps and locks so that a given trap/lock changes it's difficulty level from game to game? Maybe at installation time as @Wisp 's randomiser does? Can you even randomise the location of traps?

    The loss of metagaming knowledge would be most welcome.

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,282
    @Stefan0 I might be able to implement random difficulty for locks and traps. However, I don't see why it's necessary. I've never came anywhere near memorizing the difficulty of all the locks and traps in the game, partly because the game doesn't tell players what a lock or trap's difficulty is.

    Randomizing trap locations is technically possible. I would assign trap scripts to a random selection of containers and doors. Then I would create a bunch of triggers on the ground, and I would randomly turn some of them into detectable traps and give them scripts. But this would be very time consuming; there's no easy way to do it. Randomizing traps on containers and doors wouldn't take that long, but randomizing traps on the ground would take forever. The problem is that for each trap you want to create, you actually have to decide upon all of its coordinates (there are usually four or more coordinate pairs for each trap). I do not know a good way to automate that.

  • StefanOStefanO Member Posts: 334

    @Stefan0 I might be able to implement random difficulty for locks and traps. However, I don't see why it's necessary. I've never came anywhere near memorizing the difficulty of all the locks and traps in the game, partly because the game doesn't tell players what a lock or trap's difficulty is.

    After playing BG for nearly 2 decades I know where the traps are and if they are deadly or not. Your mod reduces my metagaming knowledge and that is a very good thing. Thank you.

    Randomizing trap locations is technically possible. I would assign trap scripts to a random selection of containers and doors. Then I would create a bunch of triggers on the ground, and I would randomly turn some of them into detectable traps and give them scripts. But this would be very time consuming; there's no easy way to do it. Randomizing traps on containers and doors wouldn't take that long, but randomizing traps on the ground would take forever. The problem is that for each trap you want to create, you actually have to decide upon all of its coordinates (there are usually four or more coordinate pairs for each trap). I do not know a good way to automate that.

    I didn't know that. It was just me being greedy,

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,282
    I put some more screenshots in the opening post. Take a look!

    Zaghoul
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 968
    edited January 24
    Looks good! If it is feasible then I think it would be interesting to have some dialogue options activated by sufficiently high thief skills- most obviously pick pockets or detect illusions. For example the character might have the option to call out the Rakshasha in the Druid Grove.

    OlvynChuru
  • switswit Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 477
    edited January 24
    I've pushed pull request on github that adds EET, BGT and Tutu compatibility to the mod (only EET, BG:EE and BG2:EE has been tested, but it's done via cpmvars, so BGT and Tutu should be fine too).

    There are few things that I think can be improved in your mod:
    1.
    COPY_EXISTING ~mesteagu.d~ ~override/mesteagu.dlg~
    COMPILE_D_TO_DLG
    This is deprecated code. Weidu recommends to use COMPILE instead:
    COMPILE ~EpicThieving/EpicPickpocketing/MESTEAGU.D~
    Not really important, but you're risking making your code not compatible with future versions of weidu by using deprecated functions.

    2. Having all scripts as compiled BCS files - why not decompiled BAF? It's not like it takes any time to compile them at runtime. It's a good practice to allow players to analyse scripts before installation. I'd suggest decompiling all scripts, moving them to subfolder and compile like this:
    COMPILE ~EpicThieving/EpicPickpocketing/baf~

    3. Overwriting few BG2 scripts instead of patching them (RIBALD.BCS, STEALGRD.BCS, probably more). You should use EXTEND_TOP, EXTEND_BOTTOM or DECOMPILE_AND_PATCH (after which you can use REPLACE_TEXTUALLY). http://www.weidu.org/~thebigg/beta/README-WeiDU.html

    Other then this the code seems fine and uses modern weidu code for patching ARE data without conflicting with other mods. If you're not going to make changes as suggested above please add to the readme that the mod should be at the very beginning of the install order (since it currently overwrites files). With those changes install order won't matter.

    Post edited by swit on
    OlvynChuru
  • lolienlolien Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,061
    Very nice mod, congratulations @OlvynChuru !

    StummvonBordwehrOlvynChuru
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,510
    This mod is one those that I had no idea how much I needed it.

    Congratulations, @OlvynChuru

    lolienStummvonBordwehrOlvynChuru
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,282
    @swit I merged your pull request. Thank you for contributing to my mod! :)

    I released Version 2.6, which changes the deprecated code and no longer overwrites BCS files. I did not change all the scripts to be decompiled BAF files in the mod folder, though. If you want to look at the scripts in the mod folder, you can use Open File in NearInfinity, which decompiles the scripts for you.

    switlolien
  • ChidojuanChidojuan Member Posts: 211
    This probably goes without saying, but you can choose which components you want to install, correct?

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,282
    @Chidojuan Yes, you can! There are currently five components: Epic Locks, Epic Traps, Epic Trap Setting, Epic Pickpocketing, and Prevent Multiple Potions of Perception or Master Thievery from Stacking. Install whichever ones you want!

    ChidojuanlolienRaduziel
  • UlbUlb Member Posts: 287
    edited August 27
    Awesome, the poison skill feels like another very natural addition to the game.
    What do you think of giving all thieves (a rather weak) poison ability once they've put any points into the skill?

    Btw, I really think this mod is flying under a lot of people's radar.
    It has quickly become one of my base line mods I put in all my installations.

    The only components I'm not using are the trap ones.
    I still think the fleshy portals shouldn't be disarmable..

    As for the trap setting one; I just really hate the time trap (nothing to do with this mod) it makes ZERO sense for thieves to have that.. like how would that work, why the heck would a thief with no magical skills at all suddenly be able to construct a freaking time stopping trap??

    Anyway, I've got a feature request of sorts.
    I'm not sure this is doable at all but since you're apparently able to do magic with the new ScreenEffects I figured I'd ask you first before bothering @Bubb with another feature request :D
    Would it be possible to remove the position requirements for backstabbing?
    (Maybe by adding the 'backstab every hit' opcode while the character is stealthed?)
    ToBex does that for the classic games (I think it's called 'allow pcs to facestabb too' and is one of TheBigg's additions).
    I used to love playing an assassine as a main character but I just can't be bothered with the positioning requirements..

    OlvynChuruBubbGrammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,484
    edited August 28
    OlvynChuru wrote: »
    Version 3.5 is out!

    In this version, I added an awesome new component:

    New Skill: Use Poison

    This component adds a brand new skill to the game: Use Poison! Thieves can put points in this skill like the other skills. Having a high Use Poison skill increases any poison damage dealt by the thief, whether from traps, an assassin's Poison Weapon, or from weapons and missiles that poison the target. Assassins start with +20% to their Use Poison skill. Thieves get +4% to the skill for every point of Intelligence they have over 10.

    biiulrl7vb4d.png
    7gymh7gfzap7.png
    oqumpox4hqek.png


    Before installing this component, you must install EEex, which allows the creation of new thieving skills. Currently EEex is Windows-only, so this component is Windows-only.

    In addition, I updated Epic Locks and Epic Traps for Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition, allowing previously unpickable locks and nondisarmable traps to be picked and disarmed by a thief with sufficiently high skills. For instance, if your thief has at least 250 Open Locks, they can open the gate to Castle Maluradek right from the start.

    1xyj7djomt5r.png


    You can download the newest version of the mod here!
    Awesome!

    Heh, we were apparently working on the same thing at the same time!

    Well, since my work is based off of your work, I have a few more ideas that I'd love to toss your way. I don't need to be the creator. Likely I'll do some or most of these if you don't want to. I just want this stuff to be out there:

    Use Scroll: At 10th level, thieves (and optionally Bards) get access to a new skill that allows them to use scrolls.

    Mage Scroll Requirements: 10 points per level. That is, level 1 scrolls require 10 points in the skill, level 2 20 points, etc.
    Priest Scroll Requirements: 15 points per level (skill 99 for level 7). Because priest scrolls are more tricky (because it is difficult to mimic faith or somesuch thing).

    Requires: Level 10 and a min int of 9.

    I know what you are going to say: what priest scrolls?!?

    Well, I have code somewhere that dynamically creates and places priest scrolls, um, somewhere. Please feel free to use all the code I have if you want it (I'll provide links at the end of this post).

    Implementation: I created a second (and will eventually create a 3rd and 4th) stat that is assigned to the thief at level 9 so that they can assign points to the skill. The glaring problem is that thieves created in TOB won't be able to assign points to the skill at character creation. I was thinking instead of just directly checking for level and assigning 'different' skills for mc vs. single class, which could still technically use the same stats.

    Performance: This is a bard only skill that increases the options for bard songs. It's just in the development stage. I don't really have any solid ideas as yet.

    Bardic Knowledge: Basically a bard only skill that adds to lore, but also can be used in place of certain attribute requirements--especially Int or wis--in dialog for knowledge based dialog options. Totally not implemented

    Barter: Much like performance and bardic knowledge, this is just in the idea phase. I was thinking of altering merchant dialog to give access to slightly cheaper versions of their stores for characters with this skill.

    Set Natural Snares: A ranger only skill that allows them to set snares but Only in non-city environments. This is completely done and uses the normal set traps skill

    links to stuff

    Mmm, let's see, I don't have much on the Use Scroll ability itself. But what I have is here:

    https://github.com/Grammarsalad/B_Kits/blob/master/B_Kits/data/components/Setup_thief_skills.tpa

    The code that adds priest scrolls is....somewhere. It might be sitting in one of my half builds in one of my game folders somewhere (I had to keep testing as I ran--eek, I hope I didn't update the game since then...God, I hope not. It was such a pita) I'll have to edit this post when I find it.

    The code is similar to what I have here--the code in the link below is extrapolated from it--so that is a start:

    https://github.com/Grammarsalad/Casting_Attributes/issues/5

    The basic idea is the code reads all priest spells, and particulars like spell level, etc. and then creates scrolls (from a generic file I provide) based on those attributes. It then adds those scrolls to stores and temples based mostly on level (I think I wasn't finished with that part, though).

    Bard specific stuff:

    https://github.com/Grammarsalad/B_Kits/blob/master/B_Kits/data/components/Setup_bard_skills.tpa

    Set natural snares:

    https://github.com/Grammarsalad/B_Kits/blob/master/B_Kits/data/components/Setup_revised_ranger.tpa

    OlvynChuru
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,282
    @Grammarsalad

    I'm not great at patching dialogues besides using REPLACE_TEXTUALLY, so any skills that require additional dialogue options are out for me.

    As for Performance, it might be better to have it do something like increase bard song range or duration.

    I was considering some other skill ideas for rangers. One is a skill that increases their visual range (maybe 15 or 20 points per point of increased visual range, since increasing a party member's visual range is very powerful from my experience). I also had several ideas for skills that upgrade the ranger's Charm Animal ability (which is normally pretty useless as there are barely any decent animals to charm beyond BG1). One skill might enable the ranger to charm additional kinds of creatures (e.g. unintelligent monsters like basilisks or wyverns) at certain thresholds. Another might extend the duration of Charm Animal and at a certain threshold make Charm Animal permanent.

    Grammarsalad
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