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Baldur's Gate stream with Kate Welch (WotC)

2

Comments

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 18,464
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,313
    Considering she played BG1 on a horrendously easy difficulty level, of course she finds BG2 better. I still don't understand why basically someone random playing the game and showcasing a particular difficulty mode that is quite A-typical for the game is being lobbied so much. It's bad advertisement, as BG1 is so much better than she made it out to be.

    RaduzielMERLANCE
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,313
    lefreut wrote: »
    And she's not exactly random, she's a game designer at Wizards.

    The fact that she's a game designed at WotC, and her streams are broadcast in a sort of official manner is exactly what the problem is. It instills the viewer with the idea that this is not just some random noob playing the game, but an informed person showcasing the game. It's certainly poor advertisement to have someone play the game in a poorly informed manner and have that broadcast through official media.

    RaduzielDaevelon
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 552
    edited April 25
    Thels, that's an unfair expectation. You're effectively arguing that because it's an official broadcast it must demonstrate hypercompetence. I'd be surprised if more than a handful of people at WotC would know what we mean if we talk about abusing the Ranger/Cleric Bug.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,313
    edited April 25
    Pokota wrote: »
    Thels, that's an unfair expectation. You're effectively arguing that because it's an official broadcast it must demonstrate hypercompetence. I'd be surprised if more than a handful of people at WotC would know what we mean if we talk about abusing the Ranger/Cleric Bug.

    There is a difference between an obscure detail such as Ranger/Cleric spells, and starting the game in Story mode while having no idea what kind of effect that has, thereby displaying a game that is completely different from what it's meant to be. Early in the stream, sne noticed that her character could carry thousands of pounds. Someone that didn't realize that this was due to her running in Storymode would probably consider that very stupid, and consider BG a very silly game. And that's just one of many examples.

    Daevelon
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,319
    Every time Kate turns into fire salamander form and then goes to any character's inventory, it crashes the game and corrupts the last quicksave file. It happened to her about a dozen times in this stream. It was making her have to replay fights she'd already gotten past.

    It's very worrisome to see a crash bug this serious still in BG2:EE.

    RaduzielShadowdemon
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 18,464
    Every time Kate turns into fire salamander form and then goes to any character's inventory, it crashes the game and corrupts the last quicksave file. It happened to her about a dozen times in this stream. It was making her have to replay fights she'd already gotten past.

    It's very worrisome to see a crash bug this serious still in BG2:EE.

    Yes, it's quite unfortunate. I've already passed the info to the team. As I understand, the 2.6 patch is supposed to fix a ton of spell issues, so maybe the fire salamander form fix is also included. But alas the patch is delayed.

    BelgarathMTHAerakarbob_veng
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 552
    Thels wrote: »
    Pokota wrote: »
    Thels, that's an unfair expectation. You're effectively arguing that because it's an official broadcast it must demonstrate hypercompetence. I'd be surprised if more than a handful of people at WotC would know what we mean if we talk about abusing the Ranger/Cleric Bug.

    There is a difference between an obscure detail such as Ranger/Cleric spells, and starting the game in Story mode while having no idea what kind of effect that has, thereby displaying a game that is completely different from what it's meant to be. Early in the stream, sne noticed that her character could carry thousands of pounds. Someone that didn't realize that this was due to her running in Storymode would probably consider that very stupid, and consider BG a very silly game. And that's just one of many examples.

    So somebody who is playing the game for the first time shouldn't play on story mode?

    StummvonBordwehr
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 18,464
    As I see it, Kate played on Story Mode because she really had no experience of playing such a complex game. When she got that experience, she switched to Core Rules (and BGII), and now all her fights are hard, and all. This is a normal way to get into these games for someone who didn't have experience of playing BG 10-20 years ago.

    Aedan
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,313
    Pokota wrote: »
    Thels wrote: »
    Pokota wrote: »
    Thels, that's an unfair expectation. You're effectively arguing that because it's an official broadcast it must demonstrate hypercompetence. I'd be surprised if more than a handful of people at WotC would know what we mean if we talk about abusing the Ranger/Cleric Bug.

    There is a difference between an obscure detail such as Ranger/Cleric spells, and starting the game in Story mode while having no idea what kind of effect that has, thereby displaying a game that is completely different from what it's meant to be. Early in the stream, sne noticed that her character could carry thousands of pounds. Someone that didn't realize that this was due to her running in Storymode would probably consider that very stupid, and consider BG a very silly game. And that's just one of many examples.

    So somebody who is playing the game for the first time shouldn't play on story mode?

    They could, but I'm not sure it's the way to go. Story ain't just easy, it's a joke. It's for when you want to see the story without actually bothering dealing with combats in meaningful ways.

    Either way, I'm not blaming people for playing story mode, but for playing it on an official channel without broadcasting the proper information. It doesn't give a proper view of how the game is regularly played, and it can show the game off as pretty boring and dull, rather than the classic that it deserves to be, which is a shame. Sure, she may have stepped things up in BG2, but by then the damage was already done. Having someone present at the games and point out such outliers would've made these quirks more understandable to the viewers...

    Raduziel
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,301
    Thels wrote: »
    *snip*
    Either way, I'm not blaming people for playing story mode, but for playing it on an official channel without broadcasting the proper information. It doesn't give a proper view of how the game is regularly played, and it can show the game off as pretty boring and dull, rather than the classic that it deserves to be, which is a shame. Sure, she may have stepped things up in BG2, but by then the damage was already done. Having someone present at the games and point out such outliers would've made these quirks more understandable to the viewers...

    And who decides what's the "proper" way? Would you be as harsh if someone put out a stream of a person who have never played guitar before tried to play Yngve Malmsteen songs, perhaps first trying it out on Rockband and then switching to an actual guitar? :D Just take it for what it is, some plain old fun. Nothing more, nothing less. I for one find it refreshing to see someone playing blindly, someone completely new to game. There's plenty of other Let's plays out there to watch for those who want more emphasis on story, on difficulty or on other things.

    JuliusBorisovCalmar
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 18,464
    This is what Trent said himself: "The way we have it set up, there is difficulty going all the way from story mode to advanced difficulties. Story mode, the combat basically ends instantaneously and focuses on the narrative. Easy mode simplifies while giving some immunities and reducing the damage enemies do. Normal difficulty, hardcore rules, and then some advanced difficulties can watch your party disassembled rather quickly. So, when you are playing on harder difficulties, especially on the PC. It really rules into this kind of scenario, where you are playing the game, get into combat and you are destroyed. The player is required to stop, fall back, and devise a new tactic, drink this potion, cast this spell on this person, and then go. And then you go back into it and you are destroyed. Then you go back and devise a new approach and this time, you destroy the enemy; it’s really tactical and you are going to have to think about how you are going to solve each battle."

    The EE, with all its features, including the Story Mode that is often maligned in the community, brought a variety of customers. There are new gamers that go, “I have heard of this game. I have never played it. I saw it on the Best 10 RPGs of All Time. I want to know what it’s about.” So, there’s this whole new audience who has never seen or played the game before but they are interested and want to look at it.

    SkatanStummvonBordwehrlolienkanisatha
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 1,958
    The EE, with all its features, including the Story Mode that is often maligned in the community, brought a variety of customers. There are new gamers that go, “I have heard of this game. I have never played it. I saw it on the Best 10 RPGs of All Time. I want to know what it’s about.” So, there’s this whole new audience who has never seen or played the game before but they are interested and want to look at it.

    And do you think that this new player who wants to try this game should start playing on story mode rather than easy difficulty? As I've always seen it, story mode was a specific mode for specific audience who just want to "enjoy" the story without the rest of things that make this game a game, especially combat. It's not actually a difficulty level. In my opinion, a new player who wants to try this game should actually be warned against story mode-in the description, because it takes away a lot of what it is about.

    lefreutRaduziel
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 18,464
    This is a single-player game, everyone should play it exactly as they wish. Those who start on Story mode can always switch the difficulty, or start again. It's much harder to do when you're streaming your game. In that case, you can just switch to another game.

    Skatankanisatha
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 1,958
    Of course they should. Therefore they should be informed about what the story mode does to the game prior to the decision, no? But the existing description of story mode is quite insufficient in this regard: "Same as Easy plus you cannot die".

    lefreutDaevelon
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 18,464
    I think the latest episode shows exactly why playing on the Story Mode was fine at first. If she got killed by each gibberling and gnoll at lvl 1 or 2, what stream that would have been?



    StummvonBordwehrAerakarBelgarathMTH
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,313
    Skatan wrote: »
    Would you be as harsh if someone put out a stream of a person who have never played guitar before tried to play Yngve Malmsteen songs, perhaps first trying it out on Rockband and then switching to an actual guitar? :D Just take it for what it is, some plain old fun. Nothing more, nothing less.

    No, I wouldn't have any trouble with that, as that would not be streamed through an official channel. Kate's stream IS being broadcast through an official channel, which makes all the difference. If she just casually streamed this through a personal channel of her own, then it would have been an entirely different case.

    @BelgarathMTH Later versions do allow for a bit more hybrid builds. Mages could potentially wade into melee, if they buff themselves appropriately to become melee gods for brief amount of times. However, the norm for them is to still be glass cannons to stay just far enough away from the baddies that they still remain within spell range.

    I don't really see how you expect rogues never to enter Melee. Admittedly, I never played 1st, and started with 2nd, but in my experience, Melee has always been an option for Rogues. Of course, during 2nd edition, they relied on stealth before moving in for a Backstab to then disengage again. Since 3rd, they have easier ways to deliver their bonus damage, but they're still vulnerable, and have to withdraw when things get nasty.

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