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Can you dual class kits or just vanilla classes?

Can you dual class kits or just vanilla classes?

Comments

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,673
    edited March 30
    You can dual from kits, but not to kits in vanilla BG.

    Edit: With 'Vanilla' I mean BG EE unmodded and not original BG, this is posted in the BG:EE forum so I thought it was obvious I was talking about BG EE. Apparently it was not.

    Post edited by Skatan on
    StummvonBordwehrlolien
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,611
    There's a reliable mod that allows you to dual into kits as long as you're coming from a kitless class:

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/66521/enable-dual-classing-into-kits-now-with-proficiency-fix

    lolien
  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 963
    @Skatan Vanilla BG1 allowed you to dualclass into specialist mages, IIRC.

    @Ghamarro There are a few kits that don't permit you to dualclass, Wild Mage and Barbarian.

    loliensarevok57Quartz
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,832
    Vanilla BG1 allowed you to dualclass into specialist mages, IIRC.
    @Humanoid_Taifun Correct! The right choice with Imoen was always Conjurer because come on. And dualing Safana to Enchanter was fun too! Good times.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,259
    Skatan wrote: »
    You can dual from kits, but not to kits in vanilla BG.

    i'd argue that it's "legal" (in terms of cheating or not) and generally supported, but disabled in the GUI (because of slight problems which are addressed in kjeron's mod)

  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 963
    @bob_veng Does the mod address the problems with backstabbing and illegal combinations?

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,038
    edited March 30
    @bob_veng Does the mod address the problems with backstabbing and illegal combinations?
    It allows the same combinations as can be done the other way around (kit ->dualclass).
    There's nothing I can really do about the backstab multiplier without overhauling it - the .2da file is hardcoded to only affect certain classes and kits. The only work-around would be to strip out the 2da file entries and apply all backstab bonuses in the same manner as the Assassin's 6x/7x multiplier.

  • DregothofTyrDregothofTyr Member Posts: 228
    @kjeron I read in the main thread for your mod that there was a problem with the extra spells for specialist mages, or it was adding them for multiclasses or something. Is that still an issue. I'm looking for something that lets me dual class into specialist mage, like the original game, is it possible to just enable that and not other dual kits? Are there any current bugs? Thanks for the info and the awesome mod btw!

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,038
    @DregothofTyr
    The issue occurs if you dual from a generalist mage into a kitted (cleric,fighter,thief) - they receive bonus spell slots as if they were a specialist. The engine does this, with or without the mod, and I could not find a reliable method in-game to get around this, though it can be manually fixed by editing the save.

    The above mentioned issue with backstab multiplier - a second class thief kit will always use the multiplier of a default thief, with an exception for the assassin, since his 6x/7x is implemented differently from the rest.

    As for specialists-only, you can either manually restrain yourself, or try editing the file "Setup-DUAL_TO_KIT.tp2" with a text editor (preferably one with line numbers) before installation:
    after line 467, add:
    if v.id ~= 1 then addkit = 0 end
    
    lines 467-469 should look like this afterwards:
    addkit = 1
    if v.id ~= 1 then addkit = 0 end
    if dualClassKit[y]('str') > dualSTRScore then
    

    Quartz
  • DregothofTyrDregothofTyr Member Posts: 228
    edited March 31
    @kjeron
    My version has 469 as addkit = 1
    I'm assuming that's the right one.

    Do you mind if I ask you why adding just that one line restricts it to specialist mages only? I'm interested in coding but don't know too much about it besides the basics.

    Edit: that worked perfectly, but can I just make a small nitpick? When creating a new character or dual-classing, the overlay on the bottom buttons clashes with the second button - the overlay says done but the button below says accept. When you choose the first class it should say accept, then done after you choose the kit. Is that possible to change/fix?

    Edit 2: For the nitpick, I noticed it was only in BG2 that I saw this issue, and I managed to fix it by changing line 183 from text "DONE_BUTTON" to text "ACCEPT_BUTTON"

    That should be fine, right?

    Post edited by DregothofTyr on
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,038
    Do you mind if I ask you why adding just that one line restricts it to specialist mages only? I'm interested in coding but don't know too much about it besides the basics.
    v.id is a reference to class id, 1 = mage. So if the kits class isn't mage it's not added.
    Edit 2: For the nitpick, I noticed it was only in BG2 that I saw this issue, and I managed to fix it by changing line 183 from text "DONE_BUTTON" to text "ACCEPT_BUTTON"
    Odd that it was different in BG2.

  • DregothofTyrDregothofTyr Member Posts: 228
    Yeah the UI is different in a lot of places like this between the 2 games, it's odd. The mod works perfectly for me now with those changes, thank you so much!

  • DregothofTyrDregothofTyr Member Posts: 228
    @kjeron I just reruited Edwin, and I noticed a bug with him; he has one more spell than he should, and I checked in EEkeeper and it looks like this mod is adding an extra spell, probably as a function of the 2nd function. No other mages are affected that I've seen, do you think this could be related to this edit or is it a bug? And where would I edit the mod to remove it?

    Thank you for your help.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,038
    @DregothofTyr Some of the checks are failing, I'll do some more testing with it.

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    I really need to try this mod out some time. I did a Keeper build back in the early days of BG2, a Fighter 13 to Assassin dual, very fun character that had GM in Daggers to use throwing daggers. Good times were had, but it was a bit wonky I remember, and hard to get perfect.

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,673
    edited May 2
    If I want to keeper characters, I tend to prefer playing them as MC and then when I would have wanted to dual, I switch in Keeper to dual, fix the exp of the second class and play as single class from there. Sure, it messes with the dual mechanic and the XP levels, but it gives a smoother transition and higher playing value IMHO.

    DreadKhan
  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 963
    @Skatan I struggle to understand what you have said. Can you give me an easier explanation?

    DreadKhan
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,673
    Sure thing @Humanoid_Taifun

    Example:

    1 Start as F/T, add in a kit if you want in keeper (or mod, but I don't mod).
    2 Play 'til you reach a point where you would normally Dual, ie level 7 Fighter in BG1 (level 8 thief)
    3 Open keeper, set your class to dual, first class fighter (kit), second class thief (kit), change the EXP on the second class to match the level 8 thief EXP and save
    4 Go back playing as a single class thief (8+) 'dualed' from fighter (7).

    This works easiest with multiclasses where one class levels faster than the other, and that's the class you want to dual to. In this case, fighter is level 7 and Thief 8, so you don't have to fake the exp. If you would want to keep leveling fighter you need fighter level 9 to surpass the thief levels (8 in our example) to activate them (if you had dual classed the legal way) so that takes more tinkering with the EXP on the second class which makes it more 'illegit'. I've done that as well of course, both by actually playing a SC fighter for a while until it reaches level 9 and by cheating to give the character enough EXP in its second class to surpass the first class. The latter breaks the rules a lot more obviously, but since I do this to save time and increase my play value (I hate the dual class mechanic) I prefer it.

    I tend to stick to the rules of MC; meaning no GM in weapons etc as a kind of 'penalty' for cheating the dual class, but YMMW.

    DreadKhan
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    I have few qualms about Keepering to improve the playing experience, even blatant cheating sometimes. I don't play these games to get more stressed!

    For the record, I used to use XP farming instead, and thought this was someone more 'legit' than using Keeper, and this ate quite a few hours in IWD, since I would sometimes find a weapon good enough to be worth building a whole new fighter for it. Somehow this seemed fun to me. :open_mouth:

  • MorkfelMorkfel Member Posts: 27
    edited May 3
    kjeron wrote: »
    @DregothofTyr
    The issue occurs if you dual from a generalist mage into a kitted (cleric,fighter,thief) - they receive bonus spell slots as if they were a specialist. The engine does this, with or without the mod, and I could not find a reliable method in-game to get around this, though it can be manually fixed by editing the save.

    I would bet that you also suffer an extra 15% spell scribing failure rate.

    Currently any dual-classed mage, wild mage, or bard (so basically every mage kit including specialist mages) gets -15% to their chance to successfully scribe scrolls. The problem for these groups is that when the spell school is checked against their class it never matches, so they just get -15% to everything.

    https://support.baldursgate.com/issues/40462

    Post edited by Morkfel on
  • MorkfelMorkfel Member Posts: 27
    @kjeron I just reruited Edwin, and I noticed a bug with him; he has one more spell than he should, and I checked in EEkeeper and it looks like this mod is adding an extra spell

    Make sure you account for his Amulet, although I'm sure you did!

  • DregothofTyrDregothofTyr Member Posts: 228
    @Morkfel Is this a problem in both games, or just bg1? And yeah, I accounted for his amulet. This was in BG2, so he had his 3 extra spells, plus one, and I confirmed it by checking in EE Keeper, and there was an effect giving him an extra spell, with the same variable the mod was adding.

  • MorkfelMorkfel Member Posts: 27
    I'm not sure if it's in BG2EE or not, as I don't have it and didn't run script tests myself.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 345
    As the person who posted the scribing bug - it's there in BG2 (EE) as well. I don't have any other IE games, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it there. The conditions are the same as in BG1 - any dual-class combination of a kit and a mage, plus any wild mage, blade, jester, or skald.

    Dual-class combinations of a base class and a mage are unaffected, with the exception of Imoen.

    Of the BG2 companions that can scribe spells: Haer'Dalis, Imoen, Neera, and Sarevok are affected. Aerie, Nalia, Edwin, and Jan work properly.

    This is easy to work around, of course - potions of genius/mind focusing are available at every temple, and 24 Int is guaranteed success even with the penalty.

    I haven't tested any "illegal" combinations - only those achievable without mods or save-editing.

  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,761
    24 Int is not a guaranteed success in Edwin's and Jan's case. They are specialists, means that they have natural penalty to scribbling scrolls from every magic school that isn't their.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 345
    At 24 Int, the manual says 100%. In game, it's listed as 150%. Apply a 15% specialist penalty to that, and it's still over 100%, for guaranteed success. Experience backs this up.

  • DregothofTyrDregothofTyr Member Posts: 228
    Are the other values listed in the manual correct or are they also misleading?

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