@Razor Read back: the drama isn't from anyone other than those lamenting gays... on a thread pertaining to romanceable male NPCs... And you and kamuizin are thus far the only ones to employ insulting personal characterizations of others... So whatever points you think you're making are in fact only making your own positions more obvious.
As to more civil discussion...
@LadyRhian Thanks for that reference- quite the storyline. And the doppleganger reference makes the limited always-hostile manifestation in BG seem to be missing quite a lot of potential... Actually though the dopplegangers are what make Durlag's story so compelling...
Thanks for that reference- quite the storyline. And the doppleganger reference makes the limited always-hostile manifestation in BG seem to be missing quite a lot of potential... Actually though the dopplegangers are what make Durlag's story so compelling...
So much fun potential - help a harper Doppelganger infiltrate an organisation of dubious legality, performing doppelgangers at the Nashkel carnival, so on and so forth...
Maybe it´s just that if every minority (which is a fact and nothing negative meant here ok) feels the need of being recognised in a game it´s getting a bit out of hand. When an animal right acitivists group starts to play BG and yells for equality and no slaugthering of cows anymore you know the end already...
Except... no one's doing that? All we're saying is that LGBT people are a significant minority, and it's actually unrealistic to portray an entire game with hundreds of NPCs in it with no gay people. Similarly, if your player character is meant to reflect you, why can't your PC be gay, and why cannot one of the NPCs you romance be open to gay people as well?
Maybe it´s just that if every minority (which is a fact and nothing negative meant here ok) feels the need of being recognised in a game it´s getting a bit out of hand. When an animal right acitivists group starts to play BG and yells for equality and no slaugthering of cows anymore you know the end already...
Slippery slope arguments aren't cool. Those two things are completely unrelated. Banning the slaughter of cows is a *restriction* of content, adding gay romances is an *expansion* of content. You are basically coming off as trying to restrict content in an open RPG for no very good reason - if anything, you are the animal rights activist in your analogy.
@Kamulzin- Just gotta add one thing here. Not everyone who is straight is also narrow. I've been hit on by gay/bi women, and all you need to say is, "Sorry, I don't swing that way," and it's no harm, no foul. It's a case of your character being attractive to other people- whether from force of personality (Charisma) or looks (Comeliness- who's forgotten about that whole stat from the original Unearthed Arcana?) or both. You might want to take it as flattering rather than insulting, not "How dare this person/character assume I might return that interest?", but "This person likes me. This can be a good thing. Just let him/her know I am not interested in them that way, and maybe we can just be friends/comrades."
I dont think i slope slippery arguments just for my own fun for the game
I still don't understand how it would diminish your enjoyment of the game in any way. If gay people bother you so much you wouldn't even want one in your party then...don't recruit one! That's fine. It detracts nothing from your experience and enhances the experiences of others - I am honestly looking for a downside and I just can't see one.
@ladyRhian Thanks for that reference- quite the storyline. And the doppleganger reference makes the limited always-hostile manifestation in BG seem to be missing quite a lot of potential... Actually though the dopplegangers are what make Durlag's story so compelling...
Well, to be fair, they were part of an organization called "The Unseen", which has plans to take over the entire Sword Coast, (or so Volo claimed), and other sources say they were quickly run out of the Inn and the city above, yet took shelter later in Skullport. I found that last part on the Internet, and I don't remember seeing it in any of the original Waterdeep stuff, or the Skullport stuff, so I don't know where/when that was established, or even if. I mean, given the government in Waterdeep and the fact that Khelben Arunsun resides there, along with other good Wizards, I doubt such a group, tied to an organization dedicated to overthrowing the rulers of the Sword Coast, would allow them to remain... but the GM can make anything possible-including that Volo was wrong, and they were just unaffiliated Dopplegangers who saw this as a way to make money and gain influence with the patrons of the Festhall (for whatever favors they could).
Maybe it's just that the backlash gays get by merely requesting an NPC tends to put the whole question out of perspective. Why would a hetero male ever get so worked up about it... unless they've got issues? I mean, perhaps we should be keeping hetero male romances out of the game because, you know, it's "getting out of hand" with them wielding the entire rest of human history to perpetuate it exclusively, insisting that nothing else get experienced by others not like themselves...? Yet gays aren't asking to suppress hetero male romances, are they? Why, no, they're not.
So maybe just tolerate democracy? Who'd a thunk it? Let people ask for what they want and leave it at that. After all, when a gay person says, "I'd like to see a gay romance," they actually aren't asserting anything against hetero guys at all, just expressing an interest of their own- no reason to interpret it as a threat in any way whatseover... yet here comes the offense-taking. In fact, gays aren't asserting anything about heteros period by such a request, just expressing themselves. Kinda like when a hetero male says, "I sure hope they make a half-elven Wild Mage for us guys to romance," it isn't intended to spite gays... or is it? Is heterosexuality all about holding down expressing gayness? Hmm... maybe for some. But not for me.
In the end though as the human zeitgeist moves steadily forward it's kinda hard to see the devs instituting a Gay Suppression Option in their game. Yeah, not likely. If they do bring in a gay romance- more likely in BG2EE- you'll have every option to not play it, just like I don't play out the DAO "Pearl" scene- even missing that dire content- and I probably won't play monks with their max +3 fists, missing all that content. Hell, they're forcing me to play a monk to get a monk's content! Damn, content that some people might like that I might not. I must put my foot down! DAO's gay romance may be as contrived as hell (I've never tried it, no inclination, not even with all that gay content I supposedly am so damaged by not getting), but it's not in the least bit wrong or forced or center stage any more than the hetero romances are. But it's a viable option. Name the damage it does to one of the most popular cRPGs out there. Hasn't exactly held it back... Does gay people's sexuality get you more worked up than the world going to Sarevok in a handbasket? Indicative... Perspective is all that is required...
And with all the druidic storylines already in effect, threatening my party with their treehugging ways... yeah, animal rights activists are already getting out of hand in BG... ;-)
Skyrim allows same-sex marriages, and I do not think it hurts gameplay. Actually, I'm a straight female IRL but my Skyrim char married Aela because she's BA.
@kamuizin Your posts in this matter aren't a statement of what you like. They're a statement of what you don't like and an argument for suppressing what others like. Gays don't carry on for hours about not liking hetero romances, do they? Try leaving the anti-gay-quota baiting out of it, yes? Though you'd be left empty-handed at this point. You're unquestionably the most speechifying, insulting, inflammatory, and polarizing one presently "contributing" to this thread- a thread which is about... *ahem*... straight women's romance options... *ahem*... So no one could possibly mind if you focus your efforts elsewhere where it might do the BG community some good. ;-)
@Kamulzin I've never felt that. I am always cheerful about it, because hey, like I said, no harm, no foul. It's not like any of us have our sexual preferences tattooed on our foreheads for all to see. So, I haven't been weirded out by it, and I don't think I would be- I've also found myself attracted to gay men, but once I found out I was the wrong sex for them, y'know, "Oh well!" ::shrug.:: You can choose your reaction- you don't have to let it weird you out.
But honestly, that's the last I'll say on the subject, since this has gotten so completely OT.
So, yes to more romances for female characters, please. And no iffy young people stuff. I think more than just myself would find it strange and uncomfortable. Not everyone is an ephebephile.
@Bhryaen dude, i have at least 20 posts against me here, some of them don't even bother touch the matter, they're just against me, and you say that i'm trying to supress the opinion of others?
Sorry, at the very begin i told what i think and just defend my opinion, if you or any other person want to paint my comments to raise reasons for gay romance, serious i don't care at all, be my guest. I already told about the matter what i wanted.
The true problem as always, people here already made up their mind, this lost the feature discussion objective and people just want to enforce their opinions over others now. I'm incisive not coarse, sometimes euphemism don't express what we truly think or want.
Now as ppl lost reason they resort to flame, as if boycotting myself as a person would change the truth of my words, to some i answered in kind, in your case @Bhryaen, i will pass. You have some good comments here in the forum but now appeal to a childish comment as:
". You're unquestionably the most speechifying, insulting, inflammatory, and polarizing one presently "contributing" to this thread- a thread which is about... *ahem*... straight women's romance options... *ahem*... So no one could possibly mind if you focus your efforts elsewhere where it might do the BG community some good. ;-) "
Based in the conflict of this thread you cast out all opinions i have about the game, trying to morally banish me from the forum, i pitty this act dude and truly hope a better behavior from you in other threads.
As i told before i learned a little more about FR lore in this Thread so i will not cast it as a useless flame thread.
Edit 1: i read agin your last post @Bhryaen, it's not flame but incisive as my own posts so just disregard the flame part i mentioned in one of my above paragraphs to you. It's your opinion after all.
OH WILL SOMEONE NOT THINK OF THE POOR STRAIGHT WHITE MEN.
OH HOWEVER WILL THEY SURVIVE.
Seriously. You're doing nothing more than restriction content based on homophobia and little else. So be honest about what's nothing more than a romance path that you don't actually have to participate in, and grow the hell up.
This is additional content, and since obviously teh gayz bother you so much you, I don't know if you know this, don't actually have to play it.
Gay male npc? Where where where? *Turns the whole world upside down in haste to find* MIIINEE!
Try Nathaniel mod. He's cute. ^__^
*mod spoiler*
And the way romance starts is well handled IMO - Nathaniel first tells you about his male ex-lover he's looking for, then asks if his preferences bother you. If you say yes, the romance never starts, but you still get to do his personal quest. If you say it's cool, light flirting starts, but you still have the option to break it at any point.
*end mod spoiler*
On the topic of more romanceble NPCs: I am female. When playing BG2, I've romanced: as male PC with Aerie. as male PC with Jaheira as female PC with Anomen - barely stomached it. as female PC with Aerie - with a mod to remove gender restriction as male PC with Viconia as male PC with Nathaniel - with a mod to introduce Nathaniel.
I had fun with all of the above except Anomen, who was pain in the neck. Would I like to see more romance options, both male and female? Yes please! Would I mind if some of them were gay? Not at all. I enjoy roleplaying. What I would mind is making all the NPCs bisexual. It takes AWAY from the gameplay. Just look at DragonAge 2. It didn't matter what you were or WHO you were - everyone would be available for sex, even if they hated your guts (rival-mance. What a bizarre concept...). That was just weird and it effectively prevented me from getting invested. Why would I give a squat about how I played, if my gender, class and actions had absolutely no impact on the relationship, it only mattered if I clicked the dialog option marked as 'flirt'? In BG you had to be appropriate gender, race AND alignment for the NPC to even consider you a prospective partner, and that was great. Yes, I cheated to have gay romance with Aerie, sure - but it was my decision to do so, I knew about it, and thus I didn't get that uncomfortable feeling that my 'love' would actually have pursued anything that moved.
*shudders* God no. I've yet to find a well written NPC mod, and I've played nearly all of them. BG modders may be damn good in their coding and modifying, but, no offense, they can't write for s**t. Nathaniel's probably one of the more inoffensive of the lot, but given how poorly written Nathaniel is, that's saying something.
My true wishes for Romances in BGEE (or BG2EE, whatever) is romances with characters of all classes, races and sexual preferences. I realize that not many players may have played a Halfling or Gnome Bhaalspawn (or Dwarf, for that matter), but why are all the romanceable characters human or half-elf? Can you really imagine how it would look for human Anomen to be romancing, say, a woman the size of Mazzy Fintan? Or Aerie with a Dwarf or Gnome? That's why I want it all for everyone. Female Dwarves that can be romanced. Male Halflings, Female Gnomes... not just humans, elves and half-elves, even if they are the "pretty/handsome ones". That would make the game truly great in this area, and this could all be DLC added to the game.
Well that's true, i always locked myself with the possible romanceable characters, human, elf, half-elf (i made a few half orcs too, i don't remember if they're able to romance viconia, but i think they can).
I think an official update's said that at least one of the new characters is romanceable by either gender. Whether this is the 1 new female NPC or one of the 2 new male NPCs remains to be seen.
The main think I've got with romance dialogues in the Baldur's Gates games is this: What's with all the elves? Seriously, all the girls in this series have pointy ears. Also, no love for those poor halflings/dwarves/half-orcs and gnomes (apart from Aerie).
We must end this vicious sexual repression! Free love for Halflings!
Maybe ppl feel pedophile in let a human char date a halfling char XD! But serious, a good Dwarf romance would be awersome (with that spice we always hear of the short patiente Dwarf womans).
I think an official update's said that at least one of the new characters is romanceable by either gender. Whether this is the 1 new female NPC or one of the 2 new male NPCs remains to be seen.
The main think I've got with romance dialogues in the Baldur's Gates games is this: What's with all the elves? Seriously, all the girls in this series have pointy ears. Also, no love for those poor halflings/dwarves/half-orcs and gnomes (apart from Aerie).
We must end this vicious sexual repression! Free love for Halflings!
Aerie isn't a gnome. She was raised by a gnome, but she's an Avariel elf who lost her wings. Avariel are winged elves, obviously. And while I was in my car going to work, I had another thought... if they are going to allow cross-race, or cross species romance, wouldn't it be great if your romance/love interest alluded to it? Y'know, something along the lines of "I never thought I'd be interested in a dwarf/half-orc/ halfling/gnome, but somehow, I find myself interested in you and can't help how I feel." or short race NPC attracted to a (much?) taller race love interest, "Getting up there to kiss you would be like climbing Mt. Farwander, but now I can't stop thinking about doing it..." or in the opposite case, "I may have to bend myself in half to touch your lips to mine, but I want to." Or, let's say a half-orc male to a female of another race, "We half orcs like strong women... you've certainly surpassed all the things I was looking for..." and so on. (admittedly, the lines are pure cheddar cheese, but you know, in that vein.)
Am I the only one who doesn't want the new characters to feel out of place? So many suggestions would cause such a huge discrepancy between old and new characters, I almost feel disgusted. Huge quests for the new NPCs, now romances that that alter depending on your PC's race. At first I was only afraid they will be overproduced and let the classic companions pale in comparison, but now I'm pretty sure it's gonna happen, since people are asking for it.
Am I the only one who doesn't want the new characters to feel out of place? So many suggestions would cause such a huge discrepancy between old and new characters, I almost feel disgusted. Huge quests for the new NPCs, now romances that that alter depending on your PC's race. At first I was only afraid they will be overproduced and let the classic companions pale in comparison, but now I'm pretty sure it's gonna happen, since people are asking for it.
Isn't that essentially inevitable due to the nature of the contract? If they kept everything level then these "new characters" in BG1 would have no romances and maybe 4-5 lines of dialogue in the entire game. They would almost be pointless.
@geselle I agree with you, hopefuly those new chars won't feel out of place... maybe doesnt matter that much because we can choose to ignore them, right...
IMO gamers shouldnt feel entitled to romanceable chars... they are extras, if they were left completly out, the game would be as great. Maybe it would actualy be better if romances were left out, at least all this sexuality talk (several threads already) would not exist on a BG forum. I would prefer that npcs got friendlier but never advance to the point where the term straight or gay had to apply, if you know what I mean.
Comments
Read back: the drama isn't from anyone other than those lamenting gays... on a thread pertaining to romanceable male NPCs... And you and kamuizin are thus far the only ones to employ insulting personal characterizations of others... So whatever points you think you're making are in fact only making your own positions more obvious.
As to more civil discussion...
@LadyRhian
Thanks for that reference- quite the storyline. And the doppleganger reference makes the limited always-hostile manifestation in BG seem to be missing quite a lot of potential... Actually though the dopplegangers are what make Durlag's story so compelling...
So maybe just tolerate democracy? Who'd a thunk it? Let people ask for what they want and leave it at that. After all, when a gay person says, "I'd like to see a gay romance," they actually aren't asserting anything against hetero guys at all, just expressing an interest of their own- no reason to interpret it as a threat in any way whatseover... yet here comes the offense-taking. In fact, gays aren't asserting anything about heteros period by such a request, just expressing themselves. Kinda like when a hetero male says, "I sure hope they make a half-elven Wild Mage for us guys to romance," it isn't intended to spite gays... or is it? Is heterosexuality all about holding down expressing gayness? Hmm... maybe for some. But not for me.
In the end though as the human zeitgeist moves steadily forward it's kinda hard to see the devs instituting a Gay Suppression Option in their game. Yeah, not likely. If they do bring in a gay romance- more likely in BG2EE- you'll have every option to not play it, just like I don't play out the DAO "Pearl" scene- even missing that dire content- and I probably won't play monks with their max +3 fists, missing all that content. Hell, they're forcing me to play a monk to get a monk's content! Damn, content that some people might like that I might not. I must put my foot down! DAO's gay romance may be as contrived as hell (I've never tried it, no inclination, not even with all that gay content I supposedly am so damaged by not getting), but it's not in the least bit wrong or forced or center stage any more than the hetero romances are. But it's a viable option. Name the damage it does to one of the most popular cRPGs out there. Hasn't exactly held it back... Does gay people's sexuality get you more worked up than the world going to Sarevok in a handbasket? Indicative... Perspective is all that is required...
And with all the druidic storylines already in effect, threatening my party with their treehugging ways... yeah, animal rights activists are already getting out of hand in BG... ;-)
Your posts in this matter aren't a statement of what you like. They're a statement of what you don't like and an argument for suppressing what others like. Gays don't carry on for hours about not liking hetero romances, do they? Try leaving the anti-gay-quota baiting out of it, yes? Though you'd be left empty-handed at this point. You're unquestionably the most speechifying, insulting, inflammatory, and polarizing one presently "contributing" to this thread- a thread which is about... *ahem*... straight women's romance options... *ahem*... So no one could possibly mind if you focus your efforts elsewhere where it might do the BG community some good. ;-)
But honestly, that's the last I'll say on the subject, since this has gotten so completely OT.
So, yes to more romances for female characters, please. And no iffy young people stuff. I think more than just myself would find it strange and uncomfortable. Not everyone is an ephebephile.
Sorry, at the very begin i told what i think and just defend my opinion, if you or any other person want to paint my comments to raise reasons for gay romance, serious i don't care at all, be my guest. I already told about the matter what i wanted.
The true problem as always, people here already made up their mind, this lost the feature discussion objective and people just want to enforce their opinions over others now. I'm incisive not coarse, sometimes euphemism don't express what we truly think or want.
Now as ppl lost reason they resort to flame, as if boycotting myself as a person would change the truth of my words, to some i answered in kind, in your case @Bhryaen, i will pass. You have some good comments here in the forum but now appeal to a childish comment as:
". You're unquestionably the most speechifying, insulting, inflammatory, and polarizing one presently "contributing" to this thread- a thread which is about... *ahem*... straight women's romance options... *ahem*... So no one could possibly mind if you focus your efforts elsewhere where it might do the BG community some good. ;-) "
Based in the conflict of this thread you cast out all opinions i have about the game, trying to morally banish me from the forum, i pitty this act dude and truly hope a better behavior from you in other threads.
As i told before i learned a little more about FR lore in this Thread so i will not cast it as a useless flame thread.
Edit 1: i read agin your last post @Bhryaen, it's not flame but incisive as my own posts so just disregard the flame part i mentioned in one of my above paragraphs to you. It's your opinion after all.
OH HOWEVER WILL THEY SURVIVE.
Seriously. You're doing nothing more than restriction content based on homophobia and little else. So be honest about what's nothing more than a romance path that you don't actually have to participate in, and grow the hell up.
This is additional content, and since obviously teh gayz bother you so much you, I don't know if you know this, don't actually have to play it.
Try Nathaniel mod. He's cute. ^__^
*mod spoiler*
And the way romance starts is well handled IMO - Nathaniel first tells you about his male ex-lover he's looking for, then asks if his preferences bother you. If you say yes, the romance never starts, but you still get to do his personal quest. If you say it's cool, light flirting starts, but you still have the option to break it at any point.
*end mod spoiler*
On the topic of more romanceble NPCs:
I am female. When playing BG2, I've romanced:
as male PC with Aerie.
as male PC with Jaheira
as female PC with Anomen - barely stomached it.
as female PC with Aerie - with a mod to remove gender restriction
as male PC with Viconia
as male PC with Nathaniel - with a mod to introduce Nathaniel.
I had fun with all of the above except Anomen, who was pain in the neck.
Would I like to see more romance options, both male and female? Yes please! Would I mind if some of them were gay? Not at all. I enjoy roleplaying.
What I would mind is making all the NPCs bisexual. It takes AWAY from the gameplay. Just look at DragonAge 2. It didn't matter what you were or WHO you were - everyone would be available for sex, even if they hated your guts (rival-mance. What a bizarre concept...). That was just weird and it effectively prevented me from getting invested. Why would I give a squat about how I played, if my gender, class and actions had absolutely no impact on the relationship, it only mattered if I clicked the dialog option marked as 'flirt'?
In BG you had to be appropriate gender, race AND alignment for the NPC to even consider you a prospective partner, and that was great.
Yes, I cheated to have gay romance with Aerie, sure - but it was my decision to do so, I knew about it, and thus I didn't get that uncomfortable feeling that my 'love' would actually have pursued anything that moved.
God no. I've yet to find a well written NPC mod, and I've played nearly all of them. BG modders may be damn good in their coding and modifying, but, no offense, they can't write for s**t.
Nathaniel's probably one of the more inoffensive of the lot, but given how poorly written Nathaniel is, that's saying something.
The main think I've got with romance dialogues in the Baldur's Gates games is this: What's with all the elves? Seriously, all the girls in this series have pointy ears. Also, no love for those poor halflings/dwarves/half-orcs and gnomes (apart from Aerie).
We must end this vicious sexual repression! Free love for Halflings!
Huge quests for the new NPCs, now romances that that alter depending on your PC's race. At first I was only afraid they will be overproduced and let the classic companions pale in comparison, but now I'm pretty sure it's gonna happen, since people are asking for it.
IMO gamers shouldnt feel entitled to romanceable chars... they are extras, if they were left completly out, the game would be as great.
Maybe it would actualy be better if romances were left out, at least all this sexuality talk (several threads already) would not exist on a BG forum. I would prefer that npcs got friendlier but never advance to the point where the term straight or gay had to apply, if you know what I mean.