I don't care about romances, they might be interesting to play through just to see the backstory of the characters, especially Viconia because you learn nothing from her by simple talk. The only romance that was terrible and I almost felt offended was the Shar-Teel romance. God's Teeth you don't have to write a romance about every freaking female human/elf walking around.
I just wonder how much trouble for them could have been saved if only they could add banters to the original npcs.... It seems that most of the complains on BG:EE come from this particular aspect
I think they can add banters to original NPCs, they just can't make any changes on the original content, so if the new content conflict in anyway with the old content it's not allowed, just that. No? And agin, serious,
The rights where in the possession of Atari if i'm not wrong, damn man what a problem they sold to Beamdog, and now a guess, with BG EE release ATARI and therefore any online deliver site will be forbidden of sell copies of the old BG, or not?
New ppl can mistake the marketing and go to a store to buy old BG thinking it's the new BG EE and Atari would benefit of this, and i'm not even speaking about the problems that will result from this.
I just went back to check on Minsc's stats. He doesn't have a Intelligence of 6. That's his wisdom. His INT is 8 in BG1. 9-12 is normal range. So he's a little slow, but that big problem is that 6 Wisdom- he's impulsive and makes bad choices and/or he's naive and unused to interacting with people (I have to admit that the first reading is closer to Minsc as portrayed in the game- but either one is possible for people of low Wisdom. Basically, wisdom is related to common sense where intelligence is more related to knowledge and how fast you pick up on things.
So, you could do a Minsc Romance in several ways: it takes him a long time to figure out that the main CHARNAME female is interested in him, and his romance behavior is strange (goes out to kill some evil monster on his own so he can bring back some part to give CHARNAME as a Present) "Look, I brought you this Wyvern tail (or whatever). I did it for you!" CHARNAME: Um, okay... (Thinking to herself "What the hell do I do with THIS?") or Minsc: "I went out and slew 20 orcs in your name! Do I get a kiss now?" CHARNAME: Sounds like a fair trade to me! (Or whatever, just look out when he decides to take it to the next level...) Or it could be started by the CHARNAME expressing an interest in him (him being oblivious up to that point and then he needs confirmation that what he thought he heard is real...) and he goes all cheesy in romance (seeking out books to find out what you do when you like a girl and painfully emulating those books) and it takes CHARNAME to make him see/realize that you don't need to do that stuff, or tell him, you know "Just be yourself". A Romance with Minsc should be at least a little amusing, because he is such an over the top character in his words and actions. But after the amusing stuff, well, he's a good guy and he can be just as intense in a romance as other male characters.
The problem is that you must be evil to romance him @LadyRhian, as minsc normally says "Evil, meet my sword! Sword, meet evil!!" XD (something like that). So, if no evil, no sword for you !
@kamulzin Ha! Depends on which sword you are talking about. I used to go on a P&P RPG site, which had the joke that sometimes, your sword is just a dagger.
This thread is quite amusing. Thanks to @kamuizin and @LadyRhian for giving me a laugh.
As far as romances go, I'm all for diversification, but not for generalizing. In other words, I'm against making all NPCs romanceable by any class/race/gender/etc., as this just cheapens the experience and dumbs down the game in my opinion; but I'm all for having characters that are specifically okay with romancing certain (or all) races, certain genders, etc. So if I played a game where there was equal representation for each orientation that would be fine, but there are some modern RPGs where any NPC can be romanced by anyone, which is just taking the easy way out in my opinion.
And yes, that does feel cheap. I just wonder why no love for Dwarves and Halflings in the original game? As someone pointed out to me, Aerie will romance a gnome, but no one else. That just makes me sad on the part of CHARNAMEs who were these races... and got no one.
I don't like all characters romanceable possibility too, @jaysl659, and minsc is surely not one to for that, Haer'Dalis is one that should be romanceable and was pointed as 2° male option in BG2, and i hope they fix that in BG2 EE.
Edwin and Nalia are 2 characters that should be romanceable in my opinion, but i'm not going to deep myself in this. Edwin had a nice romance mod and that fit him really well.
A charisma minimum check (and even other status) should be added to allow/block some romances, someone with 7 charisma barely know how to speak, much less flatter.
Although all of my female characters are lesbians (in all games that have romances), a male love interest for females that's more interesting than Anomen (yuck!) would be fantastic. Also, I agree with whoever said Viconia should be bi. I used to use the script editor in ShadowKeeper to initiate the Viconia romance on my female characters.
From the nature of her former society, a bi viconia would make no conflict and would be true to the plot.
Anomen is cool exactly by being annoying, he's a box of options, in my view he should be able to follow a 3° evil patch (instead of only lawful good and chaotic neutral). But by the way i hope the devs add new content to fix chaotic neutral anomen from worship helm.
It's original content i know, but this original content is breaching the contract with Wizard of the Coast since BG release, as if i'm not wrong any D&D game must be faithful to P&P lore/rules (with exceptions).
So however gave the copyrights to beamdog would not even be able to complain, as changing this original content here is a duty not an option, to fixing an wrongfulness made by the copyright owner that breached the contracton when the original game was released.
lol... thinks Anomen is a "cool dude..." And what cool dude is ever such without being annoying? lol Why am I not surprised...
It'll be nice to see women get better treatment than Anomen offers... even if it comes in the "romantically-challenged" form of a half-orc blackguard and an emotionally-bereft monk... heh...
@Bhryaen keep your opinion to yourself or "suffer" my opinion, your call, just don't cry later that i'm offensive and whatever.
His roleplay is cool, not his behavior. I see this fact implicit in my last post but i understand that some people need more time and a little help to understand things.
@kamuizin lol "Keep your opinion to yourself or 'suffer' my opinion." What was that you were saying earlier about being the victim of people trying to suppress your opinion again? Because you seem oblivious to the irony, I'll break it down for you: you're a hypocrite... and, no, I won't be keeping my opinion to myself, particularly as this thread has already had to suffer your "opinion." You've hardly left it alone since deciding to go after gays on it. Yeah, clearly a democracy advocate... democracy for yourself... Careful or I'll "cut your invest," as you would put it... Yeah, making threats is a great way to build a community. As I mentioned before: find a way to be useful to the BGEE community, no? Your "contribution" here isn't it. Build rather than break down. It's a different way of doing things, but rather than threaten you, that's what I suggest... Listen to those who support the thread rather than come to pretend you know better... because you might just learn something.
Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the irony of you in particular being the lone advocate of Anomen for women, actually making arguments for such a thing on a thread about offering women an alternative to Anomen that they merely need to give him "more time" as if women "need help to understand things" about him. lol I think... yeah, I think women understand the guy pretty well. lol That you're oblivious to interests other than your own is well-established, but if you want to "cry" about gays hitting on you and poor "misunderstood" Anomen, this isn't really the thread for it... Make your own thread about how great pseudoheteroparanoia and arrogant male egotism is, how berating women is the right way to seducing them, your whole philosophy. Surely others can come to it and backslap you for such an original and daring position (lol)... but it won't be a thread like this... ;-) This thread's different... Read the OP...
Dude, i will not even bother in lost my time considering your whining, you don't deserve my respect neither my attention.
I don't want a gay character and that's all i said what i don't want and give my reasons, you don't like it? I simply don't care, it's my personal opinion.
If i'm hypocrite to you cos i don't play to defend the supposed minority so be it, prejudice is often in the eye of whom see. To me you're just a asshole (in the same level or your hypocrite adjetive) that just pretend to play the defender of the weak in this forum to force your opinion over others.
Gays are not a minory today, most just reserve what they are to themselfs. We live in 2012, to be homosexual is common the prejudice is fading with time and the little that still exist is each time more fading away. The problem reside is cretins like you that like to paint prejudice where there's not, that just ending renewing the idea of prejudice.
So lemme speak agin, not to you cos i really don't care to what you think:
I don't want gay romances (and surely my opinion has a real few inpact on this matter, as any individual opinion).
I don't want gay romances cos:
In my view i take FR part of the world, where adventure happen as a conservative society based in Middle Ages. @LadyRhian showed that this line of thought hold no relation with the truth, therefore it's a suprassed idea and i changed my mind about this subject.
The way romances are done in Baldur's Gate, where always the NPCs make the frist move to main char (some modded NPCs request main char to make the frist move). Somehow i feel bad in reject ppl, even in a game, so i avoid even have more than 2 romance interests at the same time in the party. Probally i lost most of the content of romance conflicts the game offer.
Ps: By the way i'm straight, not interested. So don't make offers to me as the end of your last post, i don't like to reject ppl, but you make it easier this time
@kamuizin When the insults fly, the discussion ends. You've decided to use this thread as your reactionary sounding board. It's lame... "dude." Clearly and demonstratively you can't approach the matter rationally or considerately. At the very least, you've made this sad fact known.
And, yes, people have resisted all sorts of social reform... And guess what? They gave it time, and they accepted some help to understand some things... and the world is better for it. *shrugs*
That is quite true @NWN_babaYaga.... FR has it's own rules and I'am quite sure being openly gay would have some consequences on many npcs, some might even reject joining the party! And it's not me saying, look at the medieval stories, they usually have to hide it. It all can be done with the right writing though.
There was also an appauling lack of dragons, liches, mordakaiden's sword and goblins in medieval times. Also, as a woman, I wouldn't be allowed to roll for initiative, unless I was mopping the floor and saw a spider. Just sayin'.
a medieval influenced fantasy game for your highness then. And wanting immersion on the one hand and liberality in everything on the other makes the game hardly authentic to me.
If your going to mention that gay people were put on pikes without wax for coming out of the closet... Where do you draw the line at picking and chosing how literal you want to be with the setting? I am all for immersion, for everyone or as close to everyone as possible. For those that would love to chat up someone of the same gender as well as someone who would prefer to stick within their own gender.
The wonderful thing about fantasy is just that, it is not real, but rather what we make of it. The best thing about PnP is that the DM can change pretty much anything. As mentioned before, it is 2012, we re not stuck in the dark ages, there is no reason to say something like "gay doesn't exist in star wars" (thanks george), you would leave it up to the dungeon master.
Also I believe Imoen in the Baldur's Gate novels was a lesbian.
I think homosexual relations in the game would do no harm, people who did not wish to engage in one could do just that, not engage. It adds something but takes nothing away, it is not mandatory so therefore does not interfere in anyones game playing.
I am not suggesting a tacked on romance to satisfy the need for one to seem "pc" I mean having one because it fits, it is well written and beautiful. Forget stereotypes, forget tropes and all the shit that has come before, just a wonderful well written love story.
yes it´s no harm to the game or to me personally to include a gay romance as long my companion just does his job, which is to smash or firebolt the foes and remains silent. I still dont like this idea... @seeka It was just an example how anyone outside the established boundaries were treated and not my wish to exclude anyone. But to me a good game is not a request show.
I only say that we can't have only the good and ignore the bad. FR is far from a perfect world where everything is accepted. For example racism exists alot in FR, and thats great, this world rules do not apply to FR and when you write fantasy you don't just write what you like, each plane has its own rules.
@IchigoRXC Next you'll be telling me that its 2012 so vampires can shine in the sun if you write so. Not in FR, for now at least! but if that ever changes it would be time to leave.
I wholeheartly agree with Razor. BG is set in a world with very evil persons, demons, gods massmurders and whatnot all and not a pink barbie world where even a fart smells like roses.
Comments
The only romance that was terrible and I almost felt offended was the Shar-Teel romance. God's Teeth you don't have to write a romance about every freaking female human/elf walking around.
The rights where in the possession of Atari if i'm not wrong, damn man what a problem they sold to Beamdog, and now a guess, with BG EE release ATARI and therefore any online deliver site will be forbidden of sell copies of the old BG, or not?
New ppl can mistake the marketing and go to a store to buy old BG thinking it's the new BG EE and Atari would benefit of this, and i'm not even speaking about the problems that will result from this.
So, you could do a Minsc Romance in several ways: it takes him a long time to figure out that the main CHARNAME female is interested in him, and his romance behavior is strange (goes out to kill some evil monster on his own so he can bring back some part to give CHARNAME as a Present) "Look, I brought you this Wyvern tail (or whatever). I did it for you!" CHARNAME: Um, okay... (Thinking to herself "What the hell do I do with THIS?") or Minsc: "I went out and slew 20 orcs in your name! Do I get a kiss now?" CHARNAME: Sounds like a fair trade to me! (Or whatever, just look out when he decides to take it to the next level...) Or it could be started by the CHARNAME expressing an interest in him (him being oblivious up to that point and then he needs confirmation that what he thought he heard is real...) and he goes all cheesy in romance (seeking out books to find out what you do when you like a girl and painfully emulating those books) and it takes CHARNAME to make him see/realize that you don't need to do that stuff, or tell him, you know "Just be yourself". A Romance with Minsc should be at least a little amusing, because he is such an over the top character in his words and actions. But after the amusing stuff, well, he's a good guy and he can be just as intense in a romance as other male characters.
But you're right, it's called Joril's dagger in fact:
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
XD!
But a romanceable minsc would be fun, better if he accidentally enter in berseker state in a crisis of jealousy with anomen, that would be a lot fun!
As far as romances go, I'm all for diversification, but not for generalizing. In other words, I'm against making all NPCs romanceable by any class/race/gender/etc., as this just cheapens the experience and dumbs down the game in my opinion; but I'm all for having characters that are specifically okay with romancing certain (or all) races, certain genders, etc. So if I played a game where there was equal representation for each orientation that would be fine, but there are some modern RPGs where any NPC can be romanced by anyone, which is just taking the easy way out in my opinion.
And yes, that does feel cheap. I just wonder why no love for Dwarves and Halflings in the original game? As someone pointed out to me, Aerie will romance a gnome, but no one else. That just makes me sad on the part of CHARNAMEs who were these races... and got no one.
Edwin and Nalia are 2 characters that should be romanceable in my opinion, but i'm not going to deep myself in this. Edwin had a nice romance mod and that fit him really well.
A charisma minimum check (and even other status) should be added to allow/block some romances, someone with 7 charisma barely know how to speak, much less flatter.
Anomen is cool exactly by being annoying, he's a box of options, in my view he should be able to follow a 3° evil patch (instead of only lawful good and chaotic neutral). But by the way i hope the devs add new content to fix chaotic neutral anomen from worship helm.
It's original content i know, but this original content is breaching the contract with Wizard of the Coast since BG release, as if i'm not wrong any D&D game must be faithful to P&P lore/rules (with exceptions).
So however gave the copyrights to beamdog would not even be able to complain, as changing this original content here is a duty not an option, to fixing an wrongfulness made by the copyright owner that breached the contracton when the original game was released.
It'll be nice to see women get better treatment than Anomen offers... even if it comes in the "romantically-challenged" form of a half-orc blackguard and an emotionally-bereft monk... heh...
His roleplay is cool, not his behavior. I see this fact implicit in my last post but i understand that some people need more time and a little help to understand things.
lol "Keep your opinion to yourself or 'suffer' my opinion." What was that you were saying earlier about being the victim of people trying to suppress your opinion again? Because you seem oblivious to the irony, I'll break it down for you: you're a hypocrite... and, no, I won't be keeping my opinion to myself, particularly as this thread has already had to suffer your "opinion." You've hardly left it alone since deciding to go after gays on it. Yeah, clearly a democracy advocate... democracy for yourself... Careful or I'll "cut your invest," as you would put it... Yeah, making threats is a great way to build a community. As I mentioned before: find a way to be useful to the BGEE community, no? Your "contribution" here isn't it. Build rather than break down. It's a different way of doing things, but rather than threaten you, that's what I suggest... Listen to those who support the thread rather than come to pretend you know better... because you might just learn something.
Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the irony of you in particular being the lone advocate of Anomen for women, actually making arguments for such a thing on a thread about offering women an alternative to Anomen that they merely need to give him "more time" as if women "need help to understand things" about him. lol I think... yeah, I think women understand the guy pretty well. lol That you're oblivious to interests other than your own is well-established, but if you want to "cry" about gays hitting on you and poor "misunderstood" Anomen, this isn't really the thread for it... Make your own thread about how great pseudoheteroparanoia and arrogant male egotism is, how berating women is the right way to seducing them, your whole philosophy. Surely others can come to it and backslap you for such an original and daring position (lol)... but it won't be a thread like this... ;-) This thread's different... Read the OP...
Dude, i will not even bother in lost my time considering your whining, you don't deserve my respect neither my attention.
I don't want a gay character and that's all i said what i don't want and give my reasons, you don't like it? I simply don't care, it's my personal opinion.
If i'm hypocrite to you cos i don't play to defend the supposed minority so be it, prejudice is often in the eye of whom see. To me you're just a asshole (in the same level or your hypocrite adjetive) that just pretend to play the defender of the weak in this forum to force your opinion over others.
Gays are not a minory today, most just reserve what they are to themselfs. We live in 2012, to be homosexual is common the prejudice is fading with time and the little that still exist is each time more fading away. The problem reside is cretins like you that like to paint prejudice where there's not, that just ending renewing the idea of prejudice.
So lemme speak agin, not to you cos i really don't care to what you think:
I don't want gay romances (and surely my opinion has a real few inpact on this matter, as any individual opinion).
I don't want gay romances cos:
In my view i take FR part of the world, where adventure happen as a conservative society based in Middle Ages. @LadyRhian showed that this line of thought hold no relation with the truth, therefore it's a suprassed idea and i changed my mind about this subject.
The way romances are done in Baldur's Gate, where always the NPCs make the frist move to main char (some modded NPCs request main char to make the frist move). Somehow i feel bad in reject ppl, even in a game, so i avoid even have more than 2 romance interests at the same time in the party. Probally i lost most of the content of romance conflicts the game offer.
Ps: By the way i'm straight, not interested. So don't make offers to me as the end of your last post, i don't like to reject ppl, but you make it easier this time
When the insults fly, the discussion ends. You've decided to use this thread as your reactionary sounding board. It's lame... "dude." Clearly and demonstratively you can't approach the matter rationally or considerately. At the very least, you've made this sad fact known.
And, yes, people have resisted all sorts of social reform... And guess what? They gave it time, and they accepted some help to understand some things... and the world is better for it. *shrugs*
I can only say that we're luck you miserable fail in articule your ignorance
And it's not me saying, look at the medieval stories, they usually have to hide it. It all can be done with the right writing though.
Also I believe Imoen in the Baldur's Gate novels was a lesbian.
I think homosexual relations in the game would do no harm, people who did not wish to engage in one could do just that, not engage. It adds something but takes nothing away, it is not mandatory so therefore does not interfere in anyones game playing.
I am not suggesting a tacked on romance to satisfy the need for one to seem "pc" I mean having one because it fits, it is well written and beautiful. Forget stereotypes, forget tropes and all the shit that has come before, just a wonderful well written love story.
*edit* http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/dnd/fr_sexuality.html here is a post I found
@seeka It was just an example how anyone outside the established boundaries were treated and not my wish to exclude anyone. But to me a good game is not a request show.
@IchigoRXC Next you'll be telling me that its 2012 so vampires can shine in the sun if you write so. Not in FR, for now at least! but if that ever changes it would be time to leave.