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Contingencies and Sequencers - What do you use?

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Comments

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 18,097
    Can anyone please confirm that enemies have to make multiple, separate saving throws against every spell stacked in a sequencer or contingency, and whether it's been the same across all versions of the game? I've been told before that there is only one save roll per sequencer that applies to every spell in it.

    @BelgarathMTH This (multiple, separate STs) is confirmed here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1068646/#Comment_1068646

    StummvonBordwehr
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,187
    @JuliusBorisov , But that doesn't seem to show separate saves being made against the same spell stacked two or three times.

  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 123
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    good luck with ilich :)

    Holy shit, that was the battle for the ages...

    gorgonzolaJuliusBorisov
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 1,904
    edited May 19
    Can anyone please confirm that enemies have to make multiple, separate saving throws against every spell stacked in a sequencer or contingency, and whether it's been the same across all versions of the game? I've been told before that there is only one save roll per sequencer that applies to every spell in it.

    @BelgarathMTH This (multiple, separate STs) is confirmed here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1068646/#Comment_1068646
    I think you misinterpreted something here. Both spells are still using same saving throw roll, if they hit at the same time, but they use their own bonus/penalty to determine success/failure.

    It's still possible for two of the same spells in a sequencer to strike at different times, resulting in different rolls. This is rather easy to trigger with area effect spells or by targeting yourself with spells. When it happens, each spell's effects will have an expiration time off by 1 tick from the other. This is why stacking Web is so effective - each can strike at different times, resulting in multiple save rolls.

    But this isn't a function of sequencers/contingencies - it's how ALL effects work. Every effect applied at the same time to a given creature uses the same saving throw roll, but applies it's own bonus/penalty and save type (spell/death/breath/wand/poly) to determine success/failure. The main exception is the "Auto-pause" function, which can break the effect application mechanics of saving/resisting/probability.

    gorgonzolaJuliusBorisov
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,187
    edited May 20
    @kheron , So, do Horror x2, Hold Person x2, Emotion: Hopeless x2, Feeblemind x2, Disintegrate x2, Flesh to Stone x2, or any of those x3, stacked in a sequencer or contingency, have any better chance to land their effect by triggering a separate save for each spell in the stack, or not?

    I'm still not really seeing a clear answer to my question, and although it would be some trouble for somebody, if anyone happens to be in the right part of the game, I'd love to see a combat transcript showing one successful save against a save-or-else effect followed by the target failing a different save and suffering the effect any way.

    gorgonzola
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,392
    Can I store on the same Trigger spells with different types of target?

    Let's say I have a Cleric/Mage (or Cleric -> Mage). Can I store Curse (target = area) and Doom (target = creature)?

    Thanks.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 1,904
    Raduziel wrote: »
    Can I store on the same Trigger spells with different types of target?
    You can. Both spells will target a creature when activating it, not a location, so the initial travelling projectile will track the creature, exploding at the location it hits the creature, should the creature move.

    RaduzielgorgonzolaJuliusBorisov
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,392
    kjeron wrote: »
    Raduziel wrote: »
    Can I store on the same Trigger spells with different types of target?
    You can. Both spells will target a creature when activating it, not a location, so the initial travelling projectile will track the creature, exploding at the location it hits the creature, should the creature move.

    Very interesting! Thanks!

    JuliusBorisov
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,523
    you can even mix in a trigger spells with area target, creature target and spells you can only cast on self.
    one example can be aerie using improved haste (on target), righteous magic (on self) and chant (aoe), as long as she target herself with the trigger 3 different spells with 3 different targeting methods are used in the same trigger.

    Raduzielsemiticgod
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,076
    Don't know why, but I hate doubling up the same spell in sequencers. Like, instead of Web+Stinking Cloud, you would actually be better off with 2xWeb. But to me that seems stupid and lacking in imagination. Two complementary spells should be more effective that two of the same spell; if they are not, it's fault with the spell system.

    Using two of the same spell in a sequencer isn't always stupid; in can actually be smart sometimes. A necromancer, for example, may be better off putting two Stinking Clouds in a sequencer rather than one Stinking Cloud and one Web (or one Stinking Cloud and one Horror), because Stinking Cloud has good synergy with their own undead minions, which are immune to Stinking Cloud but not Web.

    gorgonzolaJuliusBorisovBelgarathMTHRaduziel
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,187
    So how effective do y'all think chromatic orb x3 would be, especially when cast by an invoker? Wouldn't you have three chances to land the extra effect, at only -4 penalty to their save instead of the usual -6?

    gorgonzolaJuliusBorisov
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,025
    I'd probably rather hit someone with 15 Magic Missiles. Or, since with 3 spells you're talking about Major Sequencer: Slow + Confusion + Emotion: Hopelessness.

    BelgarathMTH
  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 39
    depends on who i'm expecting to fight.
    My go to list (yes it's not creative, but effective):
    3xPierce Magic | 3xADHW | 3xPierce Shield | Mislead+Haste+True Sight | 2xSpell Thrust + Remove Magic

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