Can anyone please confirm that enemies have to make multiple, separate saving throws against every spell stacked in a sequencer or contingency, and whether it's been the same across all versions of the game? I've been told before that there is only one save roll per sequencer that applies to every spell in it.
Can anyone please confirm that enemies have to make multiple, separate saving throws against every spell stacked in a sequencer or contingency, and whether it's been the same across all versions of the game? I've been told before that there is only one save roll per sequencer that applies to every spell in it.
I think you misinterpreted something here. Both spells are still using same saving throw roll, if they hit at the same time, but they use their own bonus/penalty to determine success/failure.
It's still possible for two of the same spells in a sequencer to strike at different times, resulting in different rolls. This is rather easy to trigger with area effect spells or by targeting yourself with spells. When it happens, each spell's effects will have an expiration time off by 1 tick from the other. This is why stacking Web is so effective - each can strike at different times, resulting in multiple save rolls.
But this isn't a function of sequencers/contingencies - it's how ALL effects work. Every effect applied at the same time to a given creature uses the same saving throw roll, but applies it's own bonus/penalty and save type (spell/death/breath/wand/poly) to determine success/failure. The main exception is the "Auto-pause" function, which can break the effect application mechanics of saving/resisting/probability.
@kheron , So, do Horror x2, Hold Person x2, Emotion: Hopeless x2, Feeblemind x2, Disintegrate x2, Flesh to Stone x2, or any of those x3, stacked in a sequencer or contingency, have any better chance to land their effect by triggering a separate save for each spell in the stack, or not?
I'm still not really seeing a clear answer to my question, and although it would be some trouble for somebody, if anyone happens to be in the right part of the game, I'd love to see a combat transcript showing one successful save against a save-or-else effect followed by the target failing a different save and suffering the effect any way.
2x Kobolds
3x Horror Spells
5x Panics
1x Save vs spells
The 3rd Horror spell landed after the first two, one of the kobold still failed it, but the other succeeded.
Your best chance is still to use differing spells with differing projectile speeds (this speed isn't listed in-game, but can be relatively observed for some), so they cannot strike at the same time.
Can I store on the same Trigger spells with different types of target?
You can. Both spells will target a creature when activating it, not a location, so the initial travelling projectile will track the creature, exploding at the location it hits the creature, should the creature move.
Can I store on the same Trigger spells with different types of target?
You can. Both spells will target a creature when activating it, not a location, so the initial travelling projectile will track the creature, exploding at the location it hits the creature, should the creature move.
you can even mix in a trigger spells with area target, creature target and spells you can only cast on self.
one example can be aerie using improved haste (on target), righteous magic (on self) and chant (aoe), as long as she target herself with the trigger 3 different spells with 3 different targeting methods are used in the same trigger.
Don't know why, but I hate doubling up the same spell in sequencers. Like, instead of Web+Stinking Cloud, you would actually be better off with 2xWeb. But to me that seems stupid and lacking in imagination. Two complementary spells should be more effective that two of the same spell; if they are not, it's fault with the spell system.
Using two of the same spell in a sequencer isn't always stupid; in can actually be smart sometimes. A necromancer, for example, may be better off putting two Stinking Clouds in a sequencer rather than one Stinking Cloud and one Web (or one Stinking Cloud and one Horror), because Stinking Cloud has good synergy with their own undead minions, which are immune to Stinking Cloud but not Web.
So how effective do y'all think chromatic orb x3 would be, especially when cast by an invoker? Wouldn't you have three chances to land the extra effect, at only -4 penalty to their save instead of the usual -6?
depends on who i'm expecting to fight.
My go to list (yes it's not creative, but effective):
3xPierce Magic | 3xADHW | 3xPierce Shield | Mislead+Haste+True Sight | 2xSpell Thrust + Remove Magic
Comments
@BelgarathMTH This (multiple, separate STs) is confirmed here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1068646/#Comment_1068646
Holy shit, that was the battle for the ages...
It's still possible for two of the same spells in a sequencer to strike at different times, resulting in different rolls. This is rather easy to trigger with area effect spells or by targeting yourself with spells. When it happens, each spell's effects will have an expiration time off by 1 tick from the other. This is why stacking Web is so effective - each can strike at different times, resulting in multiple save rolls.
But this isn't a function of sequencers/contingencies - it's how ALL effects work. Every effect applied at the same time to a given creature uses the same saving throw roll, but applies it's own bonus/penalty and save type (spell/death/breath/wand/poly) to determine success/failure. The main exception is the "Auto-pause" function, which can break the effect application mechanics of saving/resisting/probability.
I'm still not really seeing a clear answer to my question, and although it would be some trouble for somebody, if anyone happens to be in the right part of the game, I'd love to see a combat transcript showing one successful save against a save-or-else effect followed by the target failing a different save and suffering the effect any way.
3x Horror Spells
5x Panics
1x Save vs spells
The 3rd Horror spell landed after the first two, one of the kobold still failed it, but the other succeeded.
Your best chance is still to use differing spells with differing projectile speeds (this speed isn't listed in-game, but can be relatively observed for some), so they cannot strike at the same time.
Let's say I have a Cleric/Mage (or Cleric -> Mage). Can I store Curse (target = area) and Doom (target = creature)?
Thanks.
Very interesting! Thanks!
one example can be aerie using improved haste (on target), righteous magic (on self) and chant (aoe), as long as she target herself with the trigger 3 different spells with 3 different targeting methods are used in the same trigger.
Using two of the same spell in a sequencer isn't always stupid; in can actually be smart sometimes. A necromancer, for example, may be better off putting two Stinking Clouds in a sequencer rather than one Stinking Cloud and one Web (or one Stinking Cloud and one Horror), because Stinking Cloud has good synergy with their own undead minions, which are immune to Stinking Cloud but not Web.
My go to list (yes it's not creative, but effective):
3xPierce Magic | 3xADHW | 3xPierce Shield | Mislead+Haste+True Sight | 2xSpell Thrust + Remove Magic