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Baldur's Gate III released into Early Access

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Comments

  • JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 351
    It is absolutely frustrating how Divinity fans and developers don't understand how player controlled pausing works throughout the industry. I've made requests for such at their forums and at the Steam forums and the idea is either hated by them or gets entirely disregarded.

    KamigoroshikanisathaThacoBellelminster
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,237
    Arvia wrote: »
    I don't enjoy reading and posting in places where people insult or attack each other. There's enough of that out there, online and offline. I'm very glad this place is the way it is.
    This is all well and good only if the moderation on a given forum is neutral and fair. If that is not the case, then that forum is better off not having any moderation at all. Either nobody gets to attack anyone or everyone gets to attack anyone. But only some select people getting to attack others all they want while others are not allowed, or where some people's posts are labeled rude or trolling while other people's similar posts are not, should not be a thing.

  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,205
    Jidokwon wrote: »
    It is absolutely frustrating how Divinity fans and developers don't understand how player controlled pausing works throughout the industry. I've made requests for such at their forums and at the Steam forums and the idea is either hated by them or gets entirely disregarded.

    I must have missed part of the conversation, what's this about pause..?

  • JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 351
    To sum it up, the Divinity engine doesn't allow pausing of the entire game without quitting out. Pressing escape pauses *some* of the game, but allows many NPCs and activities to continue going on. Entering turn-based mode, when it's possible, also doesn't pause a good chuck of the world. These aren't EA bugs, but Divinity engine limitations. Of the million+ players now, less than ten of us have voiced any concern about this in four forums, including Larian's official forums. At this point, I've realized that only the tiniest fraction of players care about having a true pause.

    Sjerrie
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,205
    Jidokwon wrote: »
    To sum it up, the Divinity engine doesn't allow pausing of the entire game without quitting out. Pressing escape pauses *some* of the game, but allows many NPCs and activities to continue going on. Entering turn-based mode, when it's possible, also doesn't pause a good chuck of the world. These aren't EA bugs, but Divinity engine limitations. Of the million+ players now, less than ten of us have voiced any concern about this in four forums, including Larian's official forums. At this point, I've realized that only the tiniest fraction of players care about having a true pause.

    What a massive design flaw of that engine then! And you say this is only scantily mentioned as a criticism?

    Would I really need to go to camp? Or find a lone goblin just to purposely enter combat so I can go to the bathroom??

    kanisatha
  • JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 351
    To entirely pause the game, the only option is to quit the game. Pressing escape and/or entering turn-based mode will pause *some* of the world, but not all of it. Most of the time, these would be fine for taking a quick break. If there is any combat in the background out of range, though, for instance, all of that will continue. Party members continue moving, too. There is no real pause available.

    kanisatha
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,205
    edited November 2020
    Jidokwon wrote: »
    To entirely pause the game, the only option is to quit the game. Pressing escape and/or entering turn-based mode will pause *some* of the world, but not all of it. Most of the time, these would be fine for taking a quick break. If there is any combat in the background out of range, though, for instance, all of that will continue. Party members continue moving, too. There is no real pause available.

    Exactly. Even taking a break by standing off the side of the road in game, and going to the bathroom IRL can then potentially mean anything from having an enemy randomly run into you, to a beloved NPC getting killed because their fight was already triggered, to even getting locked out of a quest because of that NPCs death.

    This creates a "rush-rush no breaks" feel which is such a sharp contrast with the actual combat: turn based.

    I want to say "who thought this was a good idea" but I already know the answer.

    ThacoBellKamigoroshikanisatha
  • JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 351
    It will be interesting to see how they handle cinematics. Currently, they're not pausing the world, either. NPCs still doing whatever, taking area effect damage, etc. If they end up fixing pause for those, I'm really hoping that they'll, at least, allow modders to add a real pause.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,809
    You can enable the turn-based mode whenever you want, and not worry to be ambushed by that goblin. Everything will be waiting for you when you return to the game from your break.

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 774
    That would make sense in MP, but in SP it´s really a bummer the need to exit the game to pause. Even if you are in combat, it only stops the world in a limited zone around the battlezone.

    I have to say that makes room for cheesing like casting friends or guidance cantrip in conversations so you can convince the character easily or to position your party members when the enemies are talking to your MC, but still, some kind of pausing would be welcome.

    SjerrieBallpointMan
  • JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 351
    No, we certainly can't enter turn-based mode whenever we want. If there's any combat happening in background, for instance. Much of the time, not having a proper global pause probably won't be a problem, but it's rather critical when area effect damage is happening and combat is happening.

    kanisathaSjerrie
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,809
    Jidokwon wrote: »
    No, we certainly can't enter turn-based mode whenever we want. If there's any combat happening in background, for instance. Much of the time, not having a proper global pause probably won't be a problem, but it's rather critical when area effect damage is happening and combat is happening.

    Why can't you enter the mode? Just click the clock.

  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,237
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    Jidokwon wrote: »
    To entirely pause the game, the only option is to quit the game. Pressing escape and/or entering turn-based mode will pause *some* of the world, but not all of it. Most of the time, these would be fine for taking a quick break. If there is any combat in the background out of range, though, for instance, all of that will continue. Party members continue moving, too. There is no real pause available.

    Exactly. Even taking a break by standing off the side of the road in game, and going to the bathroom IRL can then potentially mean anything from having an enemy randomly run into you, to a beloved NPC getting killed because their fight was already triggered, to even getting locked out of a quest because of that NPCs death.

    This creates a "rush-rush no breaks" feel which is such a sharp contrast with the actual combat: turn based.

    I want to say "who thought this was a good idea" but I already know the answer.
    Yes indeed. But I haven't seen anything anywhere that says this is a limitation of the engine. It is a Larian limitation. Furthermore, there are a lot of people on the Larian forum bringing this up, as they did for both D:OS games.

    Also to be clear, using the option to enter TB anytime does NOT work as a pause function. Firstly, there are situations where you cannot enter TB and have to wait for circumstances to allow it. And secondly, even when you do use this feature, only you and your immediate surroundings go into TB pause. The rest of the world around you is continuing to move and time is passing there. Multiple people on the Larian forum have confirmed this in response to me specifically asking this question. So if you pause the game this way and then leave your computer to do other stuff, something many of us often do, your in-game world has changed when you return to the game.

    ThacoBellSjerrie
  • JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 351
    Technically, it wasn't any official source that told me that it was a limitation. With all of the problems that I was having in Divinity OS, I made a mod request for a real pause there. A red name advised me that it wouldn't be possible to mod in, due to coding. The pause request thread that I started for BG3 has also has had numerous people say that adding a true pause would require serious code work on Larian's part. Finally, in my personal experience playing any Divinity engine created game, I've yet to discover any way to globally pause any game outside of quitting.

    KamigoroshiMirandelkanisatha
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    Well, there goes that thin sliver of hope I still harbored for any kind of RTwP mod for BG3.
    Au revoir Larian. We will not meet again.

    ThacoBellkanisatha
  • JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 351
    My original request for pause for BG3 started over a year ago and before they created any subforums. I don't have much hope for it now, but I've updated and made a formal request for it in Larian's Suggestions and Feedback here: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=728162#Post728162 . Please, add to it, if you'd like a true player controlled global pause added for Baldur's Gate 3.

    kanisatha
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,178
    The way that switching to TB only switches the immediate surroundings into TB mode while a lot outside still runs in RL always felt quite ugly to me from an engine design perspective.

    I remember that in D:OS2 I had a few situation where part of my characters were in turn-based and the rest was still out of range and in a RT zone. It felt really clunky.

    Sjerriekanisatha
  • JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 351
    Like the Divinity games, there is no real pathfinding. Unless we meticulously guide our characters with very small steps, they'll eagerly run right through any environment hazards. And these games are overflowing with them. I haven't had any characters die in combat yet, but multiple deaths from poor pathfinding and having them move into environmental hazards.

    Sjerriekanisatha
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Jidokwon wrote: »
    Like the Divinity games, there is no real pathfinding. Unless we meticulously guide our characters with very small steps, they'll eagerly run right through any environment hazards. And these games are overflowing with them. I haven't had any characters die in combat yet, but multiple deaths from poor pathfinding and having them move into environmental hazards.

    I find that find paths just fine out of combat, then they only run straight through hazards if they can't find any other way (and your companions will rather wait than follow you through the hazard if they can't find a way).

    The only time it doesn't try to pathfind is in combat. Which I'm glad for since 1, being turn-based means you have room to finagle with it yourself as well as making the choice of for example sacrificing a few hit points to reach the enemy or avoid hazards and not get to attack that turn; and 2, combat quickly turns the map into a game of the floor is lava anyway so it becomes nearly impossible to avoid hazards during it ;)


    Ammar wrote: »
    I remember that in D:OS2 I had a few situation where part of my characters were in turn-based and the rest was still out of range and in a RT zone. It felt really clunky.

    This is still the case. Characters also remain "out of turn" if they are stealthed. Which essentially means unlimited moving about around a "combat scene" if you can avoid getting spotted and that your characters can enter combat at their leisure.

    There's an encounter where the first thing the enemy does when combat starts is execute a prisoner. I've thoroughly abused "out of turn" stealth movement there to basically ensure that all my party members get attacks in before the enemy even gets a chance to react.

    PsicoVic
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 774
    edited November 2020
    Yeah, stealth and flanking enemies to attack them when they´re distracted is a standard tactic in those games he he. You get a free attack and there are high chances that you get a surprise round against them for more free hits. They cannot even avoid shoves when they are surprised. Also works for stealing.
    Jidokwon wrote: »
    Like the Divinity games, there is no real pathfinding. Unless we meticulously guide our characters with very small steps, they'll eagerly run right through any environment hazards. And these games are overflowing with them. I haven't had any characters die in combat yet, but multiple deaths from poor pathfinding and having them move into environmental hazards.

    They changed that in Bg3, there is a line showing you the path your character will take to reach a point, and it shows in red if you are going to run into a hazard zone so you can avoid it. The party members you do not control avoid hazard zones if they are spotted automatically.

    If now they teach your companions and pets to jump too that would be great :D

    JuliusBorisovscriverArvia
  • JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 351
    Thank you both for the feedback. I'm definitely still learning the mechanics. Other than very carefully navigating my way around a hazard, including multiple clicking and repositioning the route that my character will take, I haven't figured out how to cross a hazard. Are you saying that it's entirely possible to click one time on the opposite side of a hazard and the pathfinding will allow my character to work safe way through it?

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Jidokwon wrote: »
    Thank you both for the feedback. I'm definitely still learning the mechanics. Other than very carefully navigating my way around a hazard, including multiple clicking and repositioning the route that my character will take, I haven't figured out how to cross a hazard. Are you saying that it's entirely possible to click one time on the opposite side of a hazard and the pathfinding will allow my character to work safe way through it?

    If the route around is not too far, yes, it will try. Sometimes in very narrow corridors it will still nudge say the fire and you'll take damage, so it's not perfect. But it will try.

    Also only does it when out of combat. In combat your character just runs the straight path there.

    ArviaPsicoVicMirandelJuliusBorisov
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 774
    edited November 2020
    They just warn you (in combat) if your current path goes into a harmful zone because the path line goes red. Usually, the characters do not go into them unless you force them to.

    In my short experience with the game, It´s usually better to jump/misty step/teleport over it, shove the enemies into it or just use create water(there´s a staff that allows you to cast it for free) or burn the vines to nullify hazards; than to go around the fire, acid, vines etc
    They do not warn you about traps, fire-spitting guardian statues, stepping near flammable surfaces, places where it´s possible to throw builders into someone´s head, etc.

    Post edited by PsicoVic on
  • JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 351
    Can anyone explain how real time elements actually work in Baldur's Gate 3? I've been getting worked up over and stopped playing, having no real way to pause the world. I'm wondering, though, if that is even relevant to how real time works here. I haven't been able to enter turn-based mode, due to all of the combat occurring in the background. Is any of that actually happening in real time, though? I don't need to ever concern myself with NPCs killing each other off or anything of that sort?

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 774
    edited November 2020
    Not that I know of. If you are not in the scene, usually does not matter what happens and what the NPCs are doing. It could only be a problem in MP.

    JuliusBorisovArvia
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,237
    Re. the lack of a pause function, I now have more clear info from the Larian forum. Apparently, when you enter forced TB during exploration, characters that are not near your character do still move and act. But their movements and actions are not decisive. So if two characters are fighting each other, they will continue to "fight" each other but without inflicting any damage. If two characters are in a conversation, they will continue to converse but just keep repeating the same words. Only when your character comes close to them (within a certain distance) do other characters go back to acting decisively again. As such, even though the world around your character is moving and acting, in reality nothing is happening. Furthermore, apparently time is non-existent in the game. Time only advances in-game when you rest or when a scripted event happens. So, all of this taken together means that when you enter TB in exploration, or even just do alt-tab, it does serve to stop the game for you even if in a very inelegant way. And this also means this is very likely an engine limitation.

    SjerriePsicoVicArvia
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,237
    The most relevant part of the above article for me, which sadly turns out to be not true (the last sentence):

    We asked Vincke how the team is managing die-hard far expectations, as well as enticing a new audience to Baldur’s Gate: "Well we’re basically trying to make the game that we’d like to play," he says. "Given that all of us are very big Baldur’s Gate fans, we think we can make a game that works for all the fans out there."

    KamigoroshiThacoBell
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 499
    kanisatha wrote: »
    The most relevant part of the above article for me, which sadly turns out to be not true (the last sentence):

    We asked Vincke how the team is managing die-hard far expectations, as well as enticing a new audience to Baldur’s Gate: "Well we’re basically trying to make the game that we’d like to play," he says. "Given that all of us are very big Baldur’s Gate fans, we think we can make a game that works for all the fans out there."

    Sorry to hear that dude. It does make me sad to see that you’re not liking what you see so far and I sympathise with you.

    JuliusBorisovkanisatha
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