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BG3: Yay or Nay?

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  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,048
    edited June 2019
    Yay!
    I *literally* did not. It was said in response to your comment quoting @Juliusborisov's point about how we don't actually know anything about the gameplay.

    If we don't know anything about the gameplay(we don't), any hypotheticals, assumptions or conclusions we draw are based in a lack of evidence. I was saying that we are all responsible for any assumptions we make without evidence.

    *That* is what I am saying. I am *not* saying you are at fault for not having information. It would be a complete moscharacterization of my statement to claim otherwise, especially in the face of me very clearly explaining what I said and what I meant to convey.

    DinoDin
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,207
    Nay!
    the fact they did not show gameplay does not help matters. like they are hiding something.

    BallpointMan[Deleted User]ThacoBellscriver
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,048
    edited June 2019
    Yay!
    To get back on topic - yeah. The game was only announced a few days ago. The lack of gameplay isn't that significant to me (yet).

    I'm sure it's also part marketing. Cinematic teaser first, and then gameplay/story/rule set/etc is handed out over time. I think that's a fairly common approach.

    Edit - also, we're very early in the process. If the game is likely to be a 2020 launch, we still have a ways to go.

  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 721
    Yay!
    There's also conferences and other industry events. It's perfectly reasonable for a company to withhold juicy content for those things. That's how you build a larger audience.

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,207
    Nay!
    they said they had been working on it since 2017. they had to have something to show if they have been working on it for 2 years.

    kanisathaThacoBellSjerrie
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 429
    Yay!
    @megamike15 They will show it when they are ready. I’m dying to see some gameplay but I appreciate the process. They will show it when they are ready.

    DinoDinBallpointMan
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited June 2019
    Nay!
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    kanisathaSorcererV1ct0rThacoBellRavenslight
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 853
    Nay!
    DinoDin wrote: »
    megamike15 wrote: »
    the fact they did not show gameplay does not help matters. like they are hiding something.

    Most likely all they are "hiding" is an incomplete product.

    That doesn't preclude answering basic questions about how the product is going to work. It's been in development for several years, and the engine is already solidly locked down. (Vincke said very clearly that it will use an updated version of the D:OS "Definitive Edition" engine.) Questions about gameplay aren't going unanswered because the answers aren't settled. Larian is just refusing to answer.

    It's called "managing expectations." They are not doing it.

    Let's look at it from the opposite direction. All you people who are super-excited about this: are you more excited because you don't know whether it will be turn-based? Is that somehow enhancing your anticipation for the game? Is it going to increase sales?

    I don't see how the answer can possibly be "yes." In which case, what are they gaining by being so tight-lipped?? Refusing to answer even basic questions about the gameplay seems like a defensive posture on the part of Larian - not some kind of masterful public relations. Anyone can be wrong, of course... but, that's how it looks to me.

    And to me. If they were going to be this tight-lipped, they should've put off the announcement altogether until they were ready to say/show more. I mean, come on! For a game with the words "Baldur's Gate" in the title ... how could you have not anticipated that people are going to immediately demand to know more. You can possibly get away with playing it this way for a new IP game. But Baldur's freakin' Gate III?!

    [Deleted User]ThacoBell
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,072
    Nay!
    Not sure about the link between being skeptical about BG 3 and opinions on Skyrim/Oblivion and Star Wars.

    For what it is worth:
    • Force Awakens is ok, Last Jedi is great (top 3 Star Wars easily)
    • Oblivion was a disappointment, but Skyrim is a good game, though not as great as Morrowind
    • After patches both PoE 1 is a very good game, PoE 2 is a great one
    • I played a bit of D:OS, but I found it mostly meh, especially in terms of character development (stats & abilities)

    Also, for what it's worth my favorite RPGs:

    Ultima 7 (both parts), Ultima 5, UW2, MM7, Vampire: Bloodlines, Mask of the Betrayer, Baldur's Gate (all of it), PS:T, KOTOR 2, PoE 2, Wizardry 6, Gothic 2 with NotR.

    Gold Box are all runners up and great game, but are missing a special spart necessary to put it in the top group. Same for the IWD games.

    BallpointMan
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,048
    edited June 2019
    Yay!

    Let's look at it from the opposite direction. All you people who are super-excited about this: are you more excited because you don't know whether it will be turn-based? Is that somehow enhancing your anticipation for the game? Is it going to increase sales?

    I don't see how the answer can possibly be "yes." In which case, what are they gaining by being so tight-lipped?? Refusing to answer even basic questions about the gameplay seems like a defensive posture on the part of Larian - not some kind of masterful public relations. Anyone can be wrong, of course... but, that's how it looks to me.

    I'll answer as someone excited about what I've heard (but I speak only for myself). No. The lack of information has not increased my excitement. However, the lack of information hasn't hurt it yet, either. The game has been in development since 2017, but has only been announced for under a week, and will not be released until the end of 2019 or sometime thereafter. it is not uncommon for newly announced games to avoid showing gameplay in the reveal.

    You believe it has been mismanaged. I believe it hasn't been mismanaged at all (yet). Surely you can see this is entirely subjective, right? (That is - whether you think the reveal was managed appropriately).

    Ammar wrote: »
    Not sure about the link between being skeptical about BG 3 and opinions on Skyrim/Oblivion and Star Wars.

    Just a dumb theory I have. Like all ones, it works sometimes and not others. The biggest misses seem to be FO3 and DS2.

  • LottiLotti Member Posts: 66
    Yay!
    The Infinity Engine also changed the D&D rules at the time to fit the medium of a video game, by speeding up time tenfold during combat turns. It is explained in the manual. That turned out acceptable, but following the reason of many here it should have been burned down as heresy.

  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 721
    edited June 2019
    Yay!
    DinoDin wrote: »
    megamike15 wrote: »
    the fact they did not show gameplay does not help matters. like they are hiding something.

    Most likely all they are "hiding" is an incomplete product.

    That doesn't preclude answering basic questions about how the product is going to work. It's been in development for several years, and the engine is already solidly locked down. (Vincke said very clearly that it will use an updated version of the D:OS "Definitive Edition" engine.) Questions about gameplay aren't going unanswered because the answers aren't settled. Larian is just refusing to answer.

    It's called "managing expectations." They are not doing it.

    Let's look at it from the opposite direction. All you people who are super-excited about this: are you more excited because you don't know whether it will be turn-based? Is that somehow enhancing your anticipation for the game? Is it going to increase sales?

    I don't see how the answer can possibly be "yes." In which case, what are they gaining by being so tight-lipped?? Refusing to answer even basic questions about the gameplay seems like a defensive posture on the part of Larian - not some kind of masterful public relations. Anyone can be wrong, of course... but, that's how it looks to me.

    I truly don't care if it's turn-based or RTwP, I'm not overly attached. I also don't feel entitled to know everything all at once. Sheesh, the game was announced less than a week ago.

    I'm not sure you understand how these kinds of marketing rollouts happen. It's not that the game builds anticipation by leaving us ignorant. It's that they can keep the title in the news by dropping newsworthy revelations over the course of months. Revealing gameplay for the first time months after your initial announcement has a wealth of precedent.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,009
    edited June 2019
    Yay!
    Arvia wrote: »
    Yamcha wrote: »
    byrne20 wrote: »

    I also completely disagree with people saying that using the name Baldur's Gate 3 is wrong. Yes Charnames story is over but it will be set in the same world where all of those events took place and lets be honest, Larian would be fools not to take advantage of at least a bit of nostalgia and have all sorts of lore available in this game in relation to the previous games and maybe some related quests. Those things on their own are enough for me to justify the title.

    We still have a great connection to the earlier games. Charname found that sewer key that would unlock an entrance in the sewers of Athkatla - a secret base of the Ilithids.
    Clearly something similar was going down in Baldurs Gate (or not)
    But for me, thats connection enough to use that name.

    I have also just noticed that the stone golems who inform you about the doppelgangers in Durlag's Tower keep mentioning being influenced by the "tentacles".

    This is a reference to when the mindflayers organized and aided the dopplegangers in an attack on Durlag's Tower (which is discussed in Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast).

    AdulThacoBellscriver
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 657
    edited June 2019
    megamike15 wrote: »
    they said they had been working on it since 2017. they had to have something to show if they have been working on it for 2 years.
    You mean like how Beamdog has been working on the 2.6 update for about two years now?

    (Note: Has not actually been two years yet, I'm giving stupidly bad hyperbole here while I try to find the actual timeframe)

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,646
    Nay!
    ThacoBell wrote: »

    Larian has also confirmed that this game will have nothing to do with the Bhaalspawn, or the actual stories that BG was the focus of BG.

    Nobody has said anything remotely similar to that. No need to twist his words.

    Yes they did.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,009
    Yay!
    I'm looking forward to BG3 but I'm also worried that I may have to chip in an extra $10 for a DRM purchase of a Hackmaster +10 with Mind-Blank on-equip in order to finish it. Illithids, if properly played by the AI, are a pretty scary opponent. BG2 and ToB didnt do them any justice for sure. I wonder what the chance is of there being a lot of non-combat role-playing?

    mlneveseBallpointManSjerrie
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,827
    Give some Psion levels to an Illithid and you can terrify even high level parties...

    Balrog99ZaramMaldovarPokota
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,148
    edited June 2019
    Yay!
    Ok I've taking some time to consider it, and I'm going to add a few other responses to the poll.

    Correction: It seems I can't do that, sorry :(

    In any case, I wonder how they will portray the Mind Flayers in BG3 certainly much different in a more modern game than in the 2D isometric days of BG-SOD

    Speaking of SOD, that Mind Flayer in the Bhaal Temple always gets me.

    Balrog99
  • Nay!
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    ThacoBellRavenslight
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 721
    Yay!
    DinoDin wrote: »
    I'm not sure you understand how these kinds of marketing rollouts happen.

    You're wrong. And trying to be insulting without good reason. In fact that's the case in a lot of your posts. I have to say it's getting tiring.

    That Larian is following a plan we can all clearly see does not mean they are doing it well. People are reading into their PR strategy that the product itself might also not be to their liking. You object, in essence, "you're just reading into things!!" and my answer is yes, yes we are.

    Even if I were to concede that Larian is doing a lousy PR job, why does it matter? Bad marketing won't effect the quality of the game.

    "Larian opens up about BG3 gameplay!"
    "Larian reveals BG3 story details!"
    "Larian reveals first BG3 gameplay footage!"

    Feel free to bookmark this post. Because these are news headlines you're going to see in the months to come. And if you don't can come back and tell me how wrong I was. I'm not "reading into" anything. This slow drip of reveals is how *every* hyped game gets released. I have no idea why you're surprised by this.

    Nobody outside of a handful of dudes on some forums are complaining about this. There's no pileon going on social media. There's not a single news outlet so much as describing this as unusual -- because it's not.

    Ardaniselminsterbyrne20Flashburn
  • TarquinTarquin Member Posts: 41
    I mean (spoilered for OT),
    - Episode 5: excellent
    - Episode 4: very good
    - Episodes 3, 6: good
    - Episides 2, 7, 8: trash
    - Episode 1: luckily the Doctor saved humanity by cordoning it off in its own mini-dimension, excising it from the normal timeline

    So yeah, TFA is tied for fifth best Star Wars movie... but, that's really not saying much.

    As a side note - I have a theory, based on in anecdotal observation on these forums and a few others. Those that are "nays" in this thread are more likely to be people who also have a dim view of the new Star Wars movies. They're also likely to be people who think that Skyrim was worse than Oblivion and Morrowind. That Fallout 4 was awful, fallout 3 was "ehh" and that Fallout NV is the only one that holds a candle to 1&2. They'll hate D3. They probably found Dark Souls 2 to be the worst in that franchise as well.

    FWIW...

    I’m a moderate Star Wars fan, like the original best, thought TFA was a pile of steaming garbage and declined to see TLJ. I’ll see it one day I’m sure, but everything I’ve heard makes me quite sure I’ll loathe it.

    Didn’t play Morrowwine when it was out, but friends who I trust implicitly universally say it was the best. I loved Oblivion and played like 150 hours of Skyrim but haven’t (yet) completed the main plot. Liked hem both.

    LOVED Fallout3, didn’t play enough of NV to get into (it’s still in my todo pile), and never picked up FO4 (reviews didn’t seem interesting to me). Don’t know enough about FO4 to make a judgment.

    Loved Diablo 1 (true story, I pirated a beta of D1 that was ~80mb. My ISP at the time, Mindspring on dialup, would kick my connection after 12 hours. It took multiple tries to get that downloaded, lol), never got into Diablo 2, never played Diablo 3. Friends who are into the Diablo series don’t seem to like 3 as much.

    Never played Dark Souls, but I’m planning to get it for switch.

    I love backseat psychologizing as much as the next guy, but I think it usually betrays more about the poster’s biases than the subject of the analysis...

    I guess I’m a “Nay” for BG3. I’m fine with BG/BG2. I don’t really want a BG3. I would be thrilled with a general Forgotten Realms game, but I feel like tying it specially to the Baldur’s Gate games is setting it both sides for disappointment. I would even be fine with a new game set in Forgotten Realms that explicitly follows the BG games in terms of events, references, maybe even some characters, etc., but it should be it’s own thing. Clearly just trying to capitalize on the name.

    AdulThacoBellRavenslight
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835
    Yay!

    Now the argument has come down to "Has Larian done da goodz PR?" SMFH.

    This isn't the Politics Thread, is it?

    FlashburnSjerrie
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited June 2019
    Nay!
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    ThacoBellTakisMegasSjerrie
  • RohenRohen Member Posts: 10
    Nay!
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Yeah, but this ISN'T BG3. Its a spin-off. Its a deceptive title that exists only to drum up hype.


    This is the only right answer for this pool. Bhaalspawn known as child of Gorion is dead, and Larian told exactly that bhaalspawn story is finished, and will not be continued, so there never be true BG 3, don't be fools and allows Larian to mislead you all.

    As Taco said, this is only to put hype, and create free marketing for, well i hope "good" game.

    ThacoBell
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,761
    Yay!
    Yes, Bhaalspawn story is finished and no one is denying that. I also think the most realistic expectation regarding sequel to BG2 is just another story that takes place in the same timeline, possibly including the aftermach from Throne of Bhaal like "how Gorion's ward actions affected the FR" etc.

    If you refuse to call it sequel - as is your right to do - then you I wonder if you consider IWD2 or NWN2 proper sequels as well. They do not continue the stories directly. IWDII just deals with aftermatch of IWD and it takes place years after.

    While Baldur's Gate name is and still will be used to generate interest, your title nitpicking does not hold grounds. If the series was called "Bhaalspawn" or "Gorion's Ward" then your entire post would have a point, because "Bhaalspawn 3" or "Gorion's Ward 3" would definitely be considered as only marketing tool, when the game itself would have nothing to do story-wise with those titles.

    With all this said, I recognize that blind faith and riding the hype train is bad. But so is useless and, more importantly baseless nitpicking. I say baseless because we have little data to go with.

    byrne20JuliusBorisovSjerrie
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 429
    edited June 2019
    Yay!
    @Rohen It does make me laugh when people say stuff like this. Larian have not once mislead anyone so far. Pretty much from the start we have been told it will be an original story based around Baldur’s Gate.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,646
    Nay!
    Its amazing how many people seem to be outright offended that some of us dare be skeptical. Pretty every post that is skeptical have limited themselves to stating their opinion and defending their stance when other people get upset at them. Meanwhile, a distressing number of people hyped for the game have been pretty casually throwing around "entitled fanboy", "Toxic", "petty", "extremist". It really quite distressing. Like skepticism is some kind of grave sin.

    SorcererV1ct0rBelgarathMTHkanisathaRavenslight
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 429
    edited June 2019
    Yay!
    To be fair @ThacoBell it has gone both ways. I had a guy swearing at me because I posted a positive opinion. But I get your point. And it’s a fair one. But like I say, it’s not one sided.

    BallpointManBelgarathMTHTakisMegas
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 429
    Yay!
    On a positive note I would like to say that It makes me happy to see that on this poll it is almost 85% that are in favour of Baldur’s Gate 3 and not against it even if not all of them are involved in the discussion. That’s probably the smart way to be lol It definitely makes me feel positive about things. I’ve also mainly seen positive reactions on Twitter which is also nice to see. I’m glad a lot of people are showing interest :smile:

    semiticgod
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