Rogue Rebalancing - The Chosen of Cyric; or, the 7 Habits of Highly Murderous People
Deucetipher
Member Posts: 521
Bit of background before I commence ranting. I'm running a light-to-moderately modded game, which I haven't really done before. I installed Ascension, Unfinished Business, RR, a bevy of NPCs, and Tweaks. I hadn't messed around much with modding before, despite playing BG1 on release, mostly limiting myself to the occasional NPC mod. I would play with Ascension as well, but that was pretty much the extent of it.
Anyways, I install the foregoing non-npc mods for their generally sterling reputation in the community. I install everything in Ascension, UB, and RR, not looking too closely at the various components. This was gloriously short-sighted of me. Tweaks I installed only the bits I wanted, generally staying away from stuff that would muck with the power curve. No Improved Shapeshifter, or stacking protection items, etc. I did install the loosen equipment restriction for cleric multiclasses.
Anyway, so I'm progressing through the game and I get to chapter 6. I have Xan the Fighter/Mage, Coran the Fighter/Thief, and Isra, keepered to Inquisitor. CHARNAME is an Elven Cleric/Ranger, with full druid spell access, because I'm a dirty cheating pleb. Isra gets plot-napped and me and my remaining party members clear out Bodhi's nest without difficulty. Party is a little bit over 4 million XP, around 4.2. I leave the graveyard and BOOM, I run into the Chosen of Cyric
I'm a pretty chill player. I don't wantonly reload, nor do I rest unless it is justified in-universe. I play on Hard, but I turn off increased damage. I don't kill stuff in fog of war, and I try to play without utilizing meta knowledge, so I'm rarely buffed pre-battle. All my characters wear a regeneration item so they can make it through a "day" without rest spam. I don't really worry about the intricacies of high-level tactics because they aren't really needed in BG2 unless you install SCS/Tactics.
This was a rude awakening.
I get stopped by Venduris, but my organic play lets me [Insight] my way to bypassing the encounter. Arrogant *** that I am, I say "**** that, I want to see what this encounter entails." This was very stupid of me. I reload, and I go through the XP gaining options again, and I jump into the fight. The six enemies disappear, and I don't have true sight, cuz Inquisitor GF is MIA.
I think I died in about 10 seconds in-game. Reload. Huh... let me try that again. Ok, this time I'll spread out my toons so they don't all get hit by the Sequenced malison/confusion. No big deal. Xan explodes into chunks. The hell? I know I cast Stoneskin. Let me try that again. Reload... I can't beat these six with only two. Chunked... but I noticed that he got hit with a "dispel effects" text. Reload.
S***. Ok, I got this. Coran, Detect Illusion. Xan and Charname, let's cube one of these guys. Confused again. S***, I forgot about that. Reload. Ok, spread them out, let coran run into the middle of the invisible pack... confused. Reload. Ok, dig into potion case, get potion of clarity, Coran drinks it and immediately begins detecting illusions. Damn it Coran, why are you attacking the damn Mislea- Oh, I forgot to turn off AI. Reload.
Get a couple of hits in on Venduris and he runs away, stealths, comes back and kills CHARNAME. Reload.
Ok, everything goes smoothly for once and I kill Venduris before he can backstab septuple or death attack. Xan dies by Grok immediately thereafter... F*** it, let's keep going. Stunned by Grok. Reload. Ok, pull out the greenstone amulet, activate it, takes too long. Reload. Ok, have charname run to the front of the invisible group while Coran is detecting illusion. CHARNAME drops Mekrath's Mirror on the ground and runs to the door of the Crooked Crane and casts Insect Plague on the mirror. Xan uses wand of cloudkill on the back corner. Unholy Word. Reload.
This goes on for FOUR HOURS. I know, intellectually, I can bypass this encounter by talking. But I am too gorram stubborn. You know what I learn? I learn that the mages are ***hole and raging ***hole. Mislead Backstab shenanigans are the pits. I learn that Grok is dangerous but predictable, and I can kite him around. I learn that I pretty much have to keep Coran on Detect Illusion or Zaeron's clone hides behind traps and there isn't anything I can do to prevent him from gibbing my party
Venduris... Venduris is chill in my book. He just tries to kill you like like a decent assassin.
Kerith is a pushover.
But gorram Bodak... Bodak is the single most infuriating creature I have encountered in Baldur's Gate. His dispelling arrows prevent me from keeping xan alive longer than 20 seconds. He runs at the first chance and hides behind traps. He prevents you from kiting grok. Bodak is my new nemesis. When I play Pokemon Sword, I renaming my rival Bodak. He was always the one who would stop me anytime I got close to sniffing victory. I could take down venduris but he would finish off Xan. I would disable a mage and he would immediately dispel it, usually from hiding. I hate bodak with a fury born of a hundred reloads.
In desperation, I google "Chosen of Cyric Encounter." I learn that it is from Rogue Rebalancing (I trusted you) and I pull up the readme, and I go to the Chosen of Cyric Component:
Note: This section contains spoilers. Read it only if you have trouble defeating the Chosen of Cyric party and need help.
Yeah, I think we're past that.
Reading this document brings an epiphany to me. You know when your little brother is in like the 6th grade and he gets picked on by the 8th graders? So he comes to you, and righteous big brother that you are, you leave your 9th grade afterschool the next day and bum a ride back to your old elementary school to straighten that s*** out.
Well, aVENGER is that big brother. BG2 is the little brother. And we mother******* are the 8th grade bullies. We engage in shenanigans to beat the game, and aVENGER rubs those same tactics in our faces. Floaty-Dance mages? Sure. Mislead Backstabs? You betcha. We deserve this. I deserve this.
Thank god, I learn that you can postpone the encounter by dropping the difficulty. I do that, bring back my Inquisitor GF, restore the difficulty to Hard, and I engage again. GODDA- I forgot to turn off AI. Reload. I get it done after that. Turns out casting time 1 true sight and dispels at level 42 make life a bit easier. Xan still dies, but he isn't gibbed, so ::shrug::
Like I said, I'm not a an advanced player, so I bet many of y'all read this and scoffed while soloing this encounter with a 2.95M XP unkitted thief. But that's ok. To quote Weird Al, I'll be laughing my head off when you're burning in hell. jk. mostly.
In all seriousness, to aVENGER, this was awesome. I really enjoyed playing this encounter, and the love and sweat your put into your work really came through, and I now have a truly unforgettable experience. Thank you, and thanks to all of the modders out there who have let us forge incredible experiences in a game that would otherwise long be dead.
Anyways, I install the foregoing non-npc mods for their generally sterling reputation in the community. I install everything in Ascension, UB, and RR, not looking too closely at the various components. This was gloriously short-sighted of me. Tweaks I installed only the bits I wanted, generally staying away from stuff that would muck with the power curve. No Improved Shapeshifter, or stacking protection items, etc. I did install the loosen equipment restriction for cleric multiclasses.
Anyway, so I'm progressing through the game and I get to chapter 6. I have Xan the Fighter/Mage, Coran the Fighter/Thief, and Isra, keepered to Inquisitor. CHARNAME is an Elven Cleric/Ranger, with full druid spell access, because I'm a dirty cheating pleb. Isra gets plot-napped and me and my remaining party members clear out Bodhi's nest without difficulty. Party is a little bit over 4 million XP, around 4.2. I leave the graveyard and BOOM, I run into the Chosen of Cyric
I'm a pretty chill player. I don't wantonly reload, nor do I rest unless it is justified in-universe. I play on Hard, but I turn off increased damage. I don't kill stuff in fog of war, and I try to play without utilizing meta knowledge, so I'm rarely buffed pre-battle. All my characters wear a regeneration item so they can make it through a "day" without rest spam. I don't really worry about the intricacies of high-level tactics because they aren't really needed in BG2 unless you install SCS/Tactics.
This was a rude awakening.
I get stopped by Venduris, but my organic play lets me [Insight] my way to bypassing the encounter. Arrogant *** that I am, I say "**** that, I want to see what this encounter entails." This was very stupid of me. I reload, and I go through the XP gaining options again, and I jump into the fight. The six enemies disappear, and I don't have true sight, cuz Inquisitor GF is MIA.
I think I died in about 10 seconds in-game. Reload. Huh... let me try that again. Ok, this time I'll spread out my toons so they don't all get hit by the Sequenced malison/confusion. No big deal. Xan explodes into chunks. The hell? I know I cast Stoneskin. Let me try that again. Reload... I can't beat these six with only two. Chunked... but I noticed that he got hit with a "dispel effects" text. Reload.
S***. Ok, I got this. Coran, Detect Illusion. Xan and Charname, let's cube one of these guys. Confused again. S***, I forgot about that. Reload. Ok, spread them out, let coran run into the middle of the invisible pack... confused. Reload. Ok, dig into potion case, get potion of clarity, Coran drinks it and immediately begins detecting illusions. Damn it Coran, why are you attacking the damn Mislea- Oh, I forgot to turn off AI. Reload.
Get a couple of hits in on Venduris and he runs away, stealths, comes back and kills CHARNAME. Reload.
Ok, everything goes smoothly for once and I kill Venduris before he can backstab septuple or death attack. Xan dies by Grok immediately thereafter... F*** it, let's keep going. Stunned by Grok. Reload. Ok, pull out the greenstone amulet, activate it, takes too long. Reload. Ok, have charname run to the front of the invisible group while Coran is detecting illusion. CHARNAME drops Mekrath's Mirror on the ground and runs to the door of the Crooked Crane and casts Insect Plague on the mirror. Xan uses wand of cloudkill on the back corner. Unholy Word. Reload.
This goes on for FOUR HOURS. I know, intellectually, I can bypass this encounter by talking. But I am too gorram stubborn. You know what I learn? I learn that the mages are ***hole and raging ***hole. Mislead Backstab shenanigans are the pits. I learn that Grok is dangerous but predictable, and I can kite him around. I learn that I pretty much have to keep Coran on Detect Illusion or Zaeron's clone hides behind traps and there isn't anything I can do to prevent him from gibbing my party
Venduris... Venduris is chill in my book. He just tries to kill you like like a decent assassin.
Kerith is a pushover.
But gorram Bodak... Bodak is the single most infuriating creature I have encountered in Baldur's Gate. His dispelling arrows prevent me from keeping xan alive longer than 20 seconds. He runs at the first chance and hides behind traps. He prevents you from kiting grok. Bodak is my new nemesis. When I play Pokemon Sword, I renaming my rival Bodak. He was always the one who would stop me anytime I got close to sniffing victory. I could take down venduris but he would finish off Xan. I would disable a mage and he would immediately dispel it, usually from hiding. I hate bodak with a fury born of a hundred reloads.
In desperation, I google "Chosen of Cyric Encounter." I learn that it is from Rogue Rebalancing (I trusted you) and I pull up the readme, and I go to the Chosen of Cyric Component:
Note: This section contains spoilers. Read it only if you have trouble defeating the Chosen of Cyric party and need help.
Yeah, I think we're past that.
Reading this document brings an epiphany to me. You know when your little brother is in like the 6th grade and he gets picked on by the 8th graders? So he comes to you, and righteous big brother that you are, you leave your 9th grade afterschool the next day and bum a ride back to your old elementary school to straighten that s*** out.
Well, aVENGER is that big brother. BG2 is the little brother. And we mother******* are the 8th grade bullies. We engage in shenanigans to beat the game, and aVENGER rubs those same tactics in our faces. Floaty-Dance mages? Sure. Mislead Backstabs? You betcha. We deserve this. I deserve this.
Thank god, I learn that you can postpone the encounter by dropping the difficulty. I do that, bring back my Inquisitor GF, restore the difficulty to Hard, and I engage again. GODDA- I forgot to turn off AI. Reload. I get it done after that. Turns out casting time 1 true sight and dispels at level 42 make life a bit easier. Xan still dies, but he isn't gibbed, so ::shrug::
Like I said, I'm not a an advanced player, so I bet many of y'all read this and scoffed while soloing this encounter with a 2.95M XP unkitted thief. But that's ok. To quote Weird Al, I'll be laughing my head off when you're burning in hell. jk. mostly.
In all seriousness, to aVENGER, this was awesome. I really enjoyed playing this encounter, and the love and sweat your put into your work really came through, and I now have a truly unforgettable experience. Thank you, and thanks to all of the modders out there who have let us forge incredible experiences in a game that would otherwise long be dead.
8
Comments
@Avenger_teambg , RR is truly an outstanding mod. Thank you for your efforts!
So you start the fight completely unbuffed while the enemy party has time to buff with a few spells, then Venduris starts off the fight by using his ring to give his whole party Improved Invisibility. Selina Shadowstorm begins the fight by casting a spell sequencer of Greater Malison + Chaos + Slow, the spells of which are cast in succession so they inflict their effects in proper order, unlike the player's sequencers which cast 3 spells at the exact same time. Her starting Chain Contingency is PfMW+Spell Turning+Improved Haste. Everyone has potions of invisibility, so True Sight can be helpful if only to force them to use those instead of doing something else with their aura.
-Venduris himself is completely immune to standard divination attacks because of this ring, so think of him as having permanent SI: Divination up. One of his favorite tactics is to wait until his buddies have provoked you into using your aura on the first round, then he uses Death Attack to gib anyone who isn't immune to crits for a x14 backstab or is squishy enough to die from a x7 backstab. His +3 Luck from his Ioun Stone will ensure he will roll for high or possibly maximum backstab damage. His Silent Death +4 short sword does 1 poison damage/sec for 4 seconds, no save, and also silences the target on a failed save vs. breath.
-Selina Shadowstorm also has scrolls of Death Spell and Power Word: Kill. If left alone for long enough, she will target squishy mages that don't have spell protections up with the PW:K scrolls. She absolutely will use this on CHARNAME if their current HP is below 60.
-Grok is a big problem because he's essentially wearing Boots of Speed and buffs with an Oil of Speed, plus is a barbarian, which means he can catch up to anyone trying to run. His axe has a 10% chance of a no-save no-MR stun for 1 round, which is tantamount to instant death.
-Bodak is also a gigantic pain because of his dispelling arrows. His THAC0 is pretty good and if any of the casters on his team are disabled by Insect Plague, he'll hit them with a dispelling arrow to cure it! He will also do this if any of his teammates are charmed or feebleminded.
-Zaeron T'ane specializes in anti-magic attacks using his Wand of Spell Striking and is under Mislead during the fight. The clone must be destroyed somehow for him to be targeted. He absolutely will try Mislead backstabs if left alone for long enough. Do not let the clone trick you into following it toward the gate, as the gate is lined with many thief snares that will cause serious damage.
-Kerith the Bleak is the least threatening, but likes to use Harm from invisibility to cripple his target. He has 4 Harms memorized and invisibility potions to improve his chances of hitting.
Your biggest problem at the beginning is figuring out which buffs to use first. The debilitating sequencer should be confronted first. You must save vs. spells at -9 or be confused and again at -8 or be slowed. High magic resistance or a Globe of Invulnerability will completely negate this sequencer. Otherwise, you'll have to use Potions of Magic Protection to guarantee saves or at least Potions of Invulerability to offset Greater Malison. It is probably wiser for fighters to take the Greater Malison anyway and equip an item that gives immunity to confusion and/or slow (Lilarcor, Ring of Free Action) and instead use Hardiness on the first round and stack physical damage resistance. Thieves will want to use the Danger Sense HLA to improve their saves and gain backstab immunity. Mages should use a Spell Trigger of Globe of Invulnerability+Spell Shield+Stoneskin.
Venduris, Grok, Zaeron, and Bodak carry normal weapons to deal with PfMW, but none of them have anything above +4 enchantment, so Improved Mantle is actually a viable choice assuming you have SCS installed. If not, Stoneskin is a good choice but you must retreat from Bodak's sight range immediately lest he stick you with a dispelling arrow. If you learned Chain Contingency from Ribald's new store, you should put Improved Mantle+Spell Turning+Stoneskin into it, with the trigger conditions being Myself and On Hit. This combination should protect you from Venduris and Bodak even if Bodak hits you with a dispelling arrow, assuming your saves vs. death and breath are at least 1 without SCS installed. Try to equip something that gives immunity to poison as well to prevent being interrupted even if Venduris hits you with your buffs up anyway.
Your aura is now expended in all likelihood. Venduris will begin moving in to attack and Grok will attack nearly indiscriminately. For this entire agonizing round, you have to defend against the barbarian moving at supersonic speed. It is probably a good idea to stay on the move toward the southeast to at least somewhat hinder Venduris' ability to backstab since he also has Boots of Speed equipped. Kerith is probably casting Harm at the moment while Zaeron is moving in to assess the situation to either use anti-magic or try Mislead backstabs. If you properly buffed your mages, the threat that Bodak poses should be mostly negated.
Round 2.
Grok is probably still attacking while Venduris is either still lying in wait or has picked a Death Attack target. Now is the time to strike back. If you have a Planetar, use it - it can attack Venduris directly. Have it cast Insect Plague on Grok. Venduris is likely nearby and will be affected. Now you can keep track of where Venduris is using the insect cloud's VFX. If your mage is still protected from attacks, they can comfortably cast Time Stop and then Improved Alacrity, then decimate the whole enemy party. Make sure become protected from attacks again before the Time Stop wears off! Bodak will take advantage. Try using Mislead if you can't; the clone will at least tank one attack for you but you'll be boned if Bodak hits it with an arrow of dispelling. Selina and Zaeron are most likely going to try anti-magic attacks at this point since their auras are now clear. You need to destroy Zaeron's Mislead clone somehow; True Sight will be enough.
At this point, Venduris is probably going to strike your weakest link in the party if you haven't somehow disabled him with magic. The backstab should be survivable if you're at least using Hardiness. If you didn't use Stoneskin, Improved Mantle, or Danger Sense, somebody else in your party is going to die. Once Venduris shows himself, concentrate all attacks on him. He will probably escape using one of his 20 potions of invisibility, so show no mercy. You will probably want to keep the aura of anyone who can cast Dispel/Remove Magic clear so they can counter this tactic. With his invisibility down and his aura expended, Venduris should die to concentrated fire within the round. Whirlwind Attack will help.
With Venduris out of the way, you just need to deal with a cranky barbarian, a sorcerer, an anti-magic fighter/thief, a fighter/mage/thief, and cleric that is probably packing Harm now. If Zaeron's Mislead clone is still alive, kill it somehow and remove everyone else's invisibility. Don't let the clone kite you toward the city gates.
Round 3.
Kill Grok next. If anyone gets stunned by his axe, pick up the Ring of Free Action and equip it in one of their ring slots while they're disabled to remove the stun. True Sight should deal with Zaeron's clone, everyone's invisibility, and Bodak's Rogue's Cowl item charge simultaneously. If Kerith is not wielding a mace, STAY OUT OF HIS TOUCH RANGE! Bodak should go down quickly since he's ranged-oriented. Once he's out of the way, the fight becomes much easier. You can probably manage it from here.
This fight is ridiculous, but I must say that I enjoy playing it. The Chosen of Cyric absolutely will not hold back. Preparing the correct defenses in the first two rounds or so of combat is key to winning this fight. If you don't, you will meet a swift death. I know I've been killed by these guys many times trying to figure out how to win.
While I haven't done this fight and I haven't seen all the items, considering you get them no earlier than Chapter 6, and you get them in a fight so hard that you ought to get something great for it, I think they're fine. Only Grok's axe seems too good, and even still it's not as good as the upgraded Ravager, which has a 10% chance to instantly kill with no save.
Compare to a mod like Dark Horizons which gives even more overpowered loot for much easier battles much earlier on in the Baldur's Gate saga.
All joking aside, the key for me was the Detect Illusions ability. Let's you nullify all the invisibility effects without giving up aura.
I could not beat it with three characters, despite trying for four hours. 4 characters made it much more manageable.
Insofar as the loot is concerned, the stacks of consumables alone are incredible. I think I looted 8 mislead scrolls alone. My ranger cleric gave up heavy armor for the drow chain, which with its casting speed modification probably becomes the best armor for a r/c. Despite that it is functionally +1, also stacks with protection items. The glow effect isn't great, so I removed it: The elven chainmail sprite in black is fantastic. The axe is great, kind of like CF only the percentage stun seems more reliable than the save effect CF boasts, despite CF applying on every hit. Ven's gear in general is really nice. His cloak, hood, and ring were immediately put on my f/t. I didn't realize the luck effect was so pronounced, I may have to try or his stone, but the restrictions make that tricky for my party.
My strategy was Detect illusions, and as soon as Venduris was revealed (his ring doesn't stop the skill, thankfully) devote everything to killing him. He goes down fast, fortunately. With Ven down, I shifted to the mages while greenstone tanking grok for the 2nd round. Not even tanking, because the character he was attacking also focused down the mages; really just tried to keep him occupied. After that, I was able to mop up the remainder without much difficulty. No matter what, I always lost one character in the first pass. Accepting that trade was key to my eventual success. But I tried just about every variant possible during those first four hours with three characters, and couldn't find a way to crack it.
This is the beginning of the overpowered loot <-> overpowered opponents feedback loop. There's a reason why SCS basically doesn't give you any new loot at all.
(I admit, I gave up with 'Chosen of Cyric' on the one playthrough I did, and went for a diplomatic option.)
You have Chain Contingency and/or Planetar?
2 rounds worth of fighting. Apart the archer guy, they all have horrible saves. Sequencer with Remove magic + Malison, CC-3ADHW-enemy sighted usually kills 2 or 3 of them outright, including the guy under Mislead. Planetar, being hasted, able to see through invisibility and wielding a dispeling sword with vorpal effect shi*s all over them. They focus him? Cool - he also has instant heal spells. Still not enough power for one summon? Why not throw in best druidic spells as well? Mages do seem to lack those, so why not fill the gap?
Planetar is my definition of *imbalanced*; not a stunning weapon.
Otoh.....
You're around level 15-17, role-playing your way through this hostile world? Rushing to save your little sister and get her soul back?
You're in for a lot of pain, and possibly a few chunk-backstabs as well.
Per equipment, I think the most OP thing you get to pick here are scrolls. Both sorceress and (I think) f/m/t leave a lot of PfMWs.
Boots that increase movement and stack with Haste I consider broken as they r, but vanilla game handily gives them to you as well..
+3 Luck ring would be balanced if it's usability was tightened a bit (i.e. single-class Assassins/thieves).
Yeah, the loot is wild.
Here is the link to the chosen of cyric encounter readme. It lays out loot you can get near the end.
http://readme.spellholdstudios.net/rr_cyric.html#New_items_gained_from_this_encounter
There are a few standout pieces, I think. The drow chain, the ring of wizardry, the luckstone, and the axe are all excellent without shattering the power curve, I think. I have to actually test the axe to see how it performs relative to CF to see if the 10% stun without a save outclasses CF's various bonuses. I chose not to use the ring of wizardry because frankly, I prefer items that grant higher level slots. (And my second slot is for regeneration). The chain is what the robe of vecna should have been. I'm not familiar enough with luck to really be able to know how good the +3 effect is, so I'll trust whatever y'all think.
The barrier amulet could go either way. On a mage, it's nice but doesn't break anything, I think. On a thief, particularly a fighter/thief, I think it will have outsized effectiveness.
The items that are busted I think are Venduris's cloak and ring. Makes the cloak of non detection obsolete, and the cloak was a previously necessary for stealth play. The cloak has quite a bit going on.
@Aasim , a planetar would have been so, so nice. Unfortunately, my only mage was multiclassed, so I think at the time I was limited to a single 7th level slot, which I wasn't able to cast before Xan kicked it
@subtledoctor , yeah the on hit dispel carsomyr utilizes is, I think, the most powerful effect in the game. SotM does the same thing plus even more goodies. I usually save staff of the magi for post-bodhi, so I didn't have it. Introducing a inquisitor wielding carsomyr made this battle winnable. Inquisitor wielding carsomyr might be the single most busted non-mage combination in the game, excluding outright cheese.