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weapon availability

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StummvonBordwehr
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  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 876
    edited March 1
    We can certainly agree about the werewolf island.

    But there is a +3 staff in SoD.
    It’s right before the elevator ride down:
    http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgate/walkthrough/sod-avernus.php

    SoD does lack some weapons though. And the mage spell enchant weapon is quite handy

    Aerakar
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,316
    (And before you say “import one from BG1,” on an iPad you cannot export/import savegames, I had to roll a fresh character to start in Kotlasz’ crypt.

    I haven't played on the iPad, but if you play BGEE through the SoD engine I would expect the game to transfer to SoD automatically (as it does with Windows). Is that not the case?

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Grond0
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 876
    edited March 2
    They’re two separate apps, so there’s no way to transfer the file, except to manually export it. iOS app sandboxing adds a lot of friction to this sort of thing. (On the desktop, BGEE and SoD are two different ‘campaigns’ within the sane app.) And manually exporting saves is bugged in BGEE 2.5 on iOS.

    For some iOS users it is. Perhaps just for some of tur iPads and iPhones. I am an old iPhone 6 and have zero problems.

    But others cant export through the usual method (long tapping the quick save button, which gives you the options).

    Btw. For the druid there are some more options:
    - sling bullits +3 (vold stone shards)
    - scimitar +3 (from the Rakshasa in the underground river),
    - The root of the problem (a club that is given as a quest reward in “Druid quest”).

    Grond0
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 876
    edited March 2
    @subtledoctor
    If you want, I can make a character with the weapons and stuff you need, and export in my iOS install. I could attach it in a post afterwards, so you could use it in your SoD game.
    If so just state race, class, stats, gear and such and I will see what I can do

  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,076
    edited March 2
    Unless you are soloing, you might just be able to use the Enchanted Weapon spell.

    As for the boss, I don't recall, isn't he a Balor? Then +3 is correct.

    Post edited by Ammar on
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,267
    If I understand correctly, there is not a +3 staff or spear in the whole game? So my character will not be able to attack a certain end boss?

    That’s some TotSC Werewolf Island BS, right there. Newsflash: that did not make Werewolf Island fun.

    (And before you say “import one from BG1,” on an iPad you cannot export/import savegames, I had to roll a fresh character to start in Kotlasz’ crypt. SoD only gives you +2 gear in that circumstance. Also, can’t use the console on iOS.)

    Also, AFAIK it is canonically incorrect in 2E that fiends need +3 to hit them. Maybe I’ll just change the enemy’s .cre file...
    Ammar wrote: »
    Unless you are soloing, you might just be able to use the Enchanted Weapon spell.

    As for the boss, I don't recall, isn't he a Balor? Then +3 is correct.

    i think his weapon immunity it more based on from his statistics from his original game, not necessarily for lore reasons

    ThacoBell
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,579
    Ammar wrote: »
    As for the boss, I don't recall, isn't he a Balor? Then +3 is correct.

    He's not a balor. He's either a pit fiend or some sort of archdevil.

  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,076
    OlvynChuru wrote: »
    Ammar wrote: »
    As for the boss, I don't recall, isn't he a Balor? Then +3 is correct.

    He's not a balor. He's either a pit fiend or some sort of archdevil.

    Are you sure? He is listed as a Balor on Wikipedia. Either way, a Pit Fiend also requires +3 weapons to hit.

    The 9 Archdevils are all named, so he can't be one I think. And if he were, he would probably be even harder to hit.

    @sarevok57 : it may be based on the previous games, but does that matter if the previous game was based on P&P as well? +3 is the appropriate 2nd edition to hit requirement for a demon or devil of that stature.

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,038
    edited March 3
    That particular fiend is a Baatezu, but he does not seem to conform to any of the major baatezu types (such as Pit Fiends, Cornugons, Osyluths etc.). Based on the lore available about him from both Icewind Dale and Siege of Dragonspear, the likely conclusion is that he is a "unique devil", one of many hundreds (thousands?) that live in the Nine Hells and who constantly vie for power with each other and the Archduke of their layer. It's rare, but occasionally one of these unique devils DO manage to dethrone the sitting Archduke and assume their position (although it is ALWAYS with the tacit approval of Asmodeus, working to whatever byzantine diabolical plot he's up to).

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,126
    I always thought he was a
    "Belhifet".
    Yeah, I know that's his name, but he doesn't really seem to match any types I know of.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 564
    They’re two separate apps, so there’s no way to transfer the file, except to manually export it. iOS app sandboxing adds a lot of friction to this sort of thing. (On the desktop, BGEE and SoD are two different ‘campaigns’ within the sane app.) And manually exporting saves is bugged in BGEE 2.5 on iOS.

    I play exclusively on iPad, you can easily export BG1 saves or character sheets into SoD:

    just tap and hold the quicksave icon (or export character button) and you get a pop-up allowing you to transfer to SoD, BG2, and other options too.

    Note that exporting is a bit different if you go from the character sheet than exporting a save. In both cases though, you can't export your containers (as it has always been the case with exporting), which is annoying.

    Grond0
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  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 876
    @subtledoctor
    If you want, I can make a character with the weapons and stuff you need, and export in my iOS install. I could attach it in a post afterwards, so you could use it in your SoD game.
    If so just state race, class, stats, gear and such and I will see what I can do
    @subtledoctor
    The offer is still valid. You can just post some screen shots from you BG1:ee character and I will see what I can do. My iOS save game / character export should be able to fit into your game.

  • monicomonico Member Posts: 564
    monico wrote: »
    just tap and hold the quicksave icon (or export character button) and you get a pop-up allowing you to transfer to SoD, BG2, and other options too.

    Nope, not on my iPad. (Mini 2, iOS 12.) For whatever reason the long tap doesn’t work, and there’s no other way. (Redundant systems are for dweebs, amirite?)

    Damm, that sucks.

    @subtledoctor
    If you want, I can make a character with the weapons and stuff you need, and export in my iOS install. I could attach it in a post afterwards, so you could use it in your SoD game.
    If so just state race, class, stats, gear and such and I will see what I can do
    @subtledoctor
    The offer is still valid. You can just post some screen shots from you BG1:ee character and I will see what I can do. My iOS save game / character export should be able to fit into your game.

    I guess if he can't export, he can't import either ?

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    monicoStummvonBordwehrAerakar
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 564
    I tend to agree. But on the other hand, why bother make Big B immune to some stuff in the first place then ?

    Although I was surprised (and killed) the first time I met SoD's end boss who resisted everything I threw at him, I have had much more fun preparing for that final battle in my different runs than I had in a long time (and in general, I find that this battle is the best part of SoD, despite or maybe because of its difficulty).

    Plus, the weapon restriction can be removed by adjusting the difficulty. Not perfect sure, but there is a solution if the goal is just completing the game.

    And there are quite a few +3 weapons available, so any character can wield one (even if you don't have proficiency points, but that's where buffs & companions come in, this battle is not supposed to be easy):
    - there are 2 longswords (one being underwhelming though as it has no STR bonus damage)
    - a staff
    - arrows : one stack of "void arrows", at least 20 normal +3 arrows (+3 thac0 AND damage, better than their ToB counterpart)
    - bullets: one stack of "voidstone" bullets, not sure if there are regular +3 bullets though
    - one flail
    - a two-handed sword
    - a short sword
    - 2 hammers (one being a voidstone, so underwhelming just like the sword)
    - plus, there's the Enchanted Weapon arcane spell.

    That's enough to arm a normal party. Going solo, you're in for a very difficult battle anyway and will have to powergame your character, so don't make it too difficult on yourself and just put get proficiencies in one of those ;)

    StummvonBordwehrAerakar
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,706
    That is much better than with Karoug anyway - eg. as a cleric you're gonna have a really bad time against Karoug.

    ThacoBellmonico
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,126
    I think the usefullness of "enchant weapon" is really underestimated here. It can take any weapon you want, and make capable of hitting Belhifet. Weapon choice really isn't an issue here. There was no such recourse for Karoug.

    JuliusBorisovStummvonBordwehrmonico
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,706
    I recently did an analysis of magical weapons in BG2. Turned out the categories are not balanced at all. So I guess the situation with SoD is not much different to what it is in original games. At least, the EEs have rebalanced the spell to provide more options.

    ThacoBell
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 876
    If you do mod it, I hope its Conlans shop and not the possibility of weapon with a +2 enchantment hitting Belhifet....Just saying.

    The +3 requirement is a problem to some extent. Mostly for
    1) Solo players - especially playing clerics (clerics really get the worst treatment in the BG series don’t they?).
    2) because of the excessive planning you need to do. My character creation in BG1 is always done with the fight against Belhifet in mind - ending with the same weapon proficiencies all the time. My charname should be able to deal with him with any weapon type even if dispelled (I know you can dodge the remove magic spell when it comes).

    I like the old school proficiency system for BG1. If only the system was implemented for all the ee editions as well. You would end up using more weapons, and not just put a lot of fine weapons up for sale or in the bag of holding. I know that there are mods for this, but I would prefer it to be an ingame choice and not something I had to mod my way out of.

    Btw the “root of the problem” (club) can hit Belhifet just fine, so that could fit into the mace category with some minor tweaks.

    monicoJuliusBorisov
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,126
    edited March 5
    @subtledoctor Belhifet doesn't cast dispels in the vanilla game iirc. So you shouldn't have to worry about dispels, at least on Hephernaan is dead. As for SCS, well you're changing the game and its balance at that point. If it creates a problem, it would be perfectly reasonable to restore some of that balance through another mod. You could make an existing weapon have a higher enchant level, or create a brand new one if you want.

    Though I'm not sure why your charname not having a weapon to hit, if you choose to ignore enchant weapon, is such a big problem. Its a party based game, just give an appropriate weapon each of the npcs.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 6
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
    StummvonBordwehr
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 876
    Just to clarify
    1) Belhifet opens with a dispel magic / remove magic - centered at Caelar, and
    2) the root of the problem is a quest reward in SoD - given by the druids on the top side of the underground river. It has a +3 enchantment versus unnatural beings - and can hit Belhifet

    monicoJuliusBorisovThacoBell
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 564
    Oh yeah, I forgot about the club. Yet another weapon that can hit Big B.

    Just with the staff and the club, it means that any kind of character can hit the end boss. Provided they are buffed up and have good enough thac0 to actually land a hit, of course, but that's not what was debated here.

    Evidently, given Belhifet's huge stats, not everyone could face it alone with just a random +3 weapon. Well, it wouldn't be a Demon Lord of the Nine Hells if my grandmother could wield a rolling pin and win.

    JuliusBorisovStummvonBordwehr
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,115
    I remember the first time I met big B, heh.. I had played through SoD on Insane all the way without much hic-ups but dang, that difficulty spike hit me hard. The shortsword+3 I never got since the guy giving it to you had been hit by an AoE during the battle before, aggroed and died. I had no idea that sword even existed. I think I had one weapon available with +3 and the ever spamming enemies etc on Insane just made that battle such a chaos I had no idea what in the nine hells I was doing, hah.. I ran round a couple of times not really accomplishing anything, then slide down to Normal and won quite easily IIRC.

    I remember I felt the difficulty spike was too harsh and perhaps not the greatest of game design. It relies a bit too much on meta knowledge (though this is not the first time in a BG game that occurs ofc). When you know the next playthrough, things are pretty decently balanced. But that first time.. that was painful.

    StummvonBordwehrAerakar
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,706
    Skatan wrote: »
    I remember the first time I met big B, heh.. I had played through SoD on Insane all the way without much hic-ups but dang, that difficulty spike hit me hard. The shortsword+3 I never got since the guy giving it to you had been hit by an AoE during the battle before, aggroed and died. I had no idea that sword even existed. I think I had one weapon available with +3 and the ever spamming enemies etc on Insane just made that battle such a chaos I had no idea what in the nine hells I was doing, hah.. I ran round a couple of times not really accomplishing anything, then slide down to Normal and won quite easily IIRC.

    I remember I felt the difficulty spike was too harsh and perhaps not the greatest of game design. It relies a bit too much on meta knowledge (though this is not the first time in a BG game that occurs ofc). When you know the next playthrough, things are pretty decently balanced. But that first time.. that was painful.

    Indeed. Difficulty spikes are quite often in BG (we've just got used to them over the years, I guess). They also happen a lot in PoE and P:K.

    Even the QA from Owlcat confirms it:

    Q: I really enjoyed the optional difficult encounters of the game. Things like the wererat cave, the Owlbears near the swamp witch’s house or the Crag Linnorm when you first encounter it. As I enjoyed the Basilisk in the middle of nowhere in BG1, or the random liches hiding in a tavern cellar and the Shadow Dragon in BG2. Can we expect such encounters in WotR too?
    A: Yes, you definitely can expect such encounters

    As for big B - well, it's a game's boss. Melissan is hard to kill as well. And if you have much experience with BG, then you can install SCS + Ascension, and she'll be really hard to kill.

    StummvonBordwehrmonicoAerakar
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