Cursed beserking weapons (Brage’s sword and Kiel’s morningstar)

Dharius

Hi All. Has anyone managed to use these beneficially in a large party of e.g. six? I can see that they could be effective, if risky, for protected fighters and/or clerics playing solo, but otherwise I can’t see their value.

I was wondering if you know of any tactics to make these work? Thanks!

Grond0

Send a well-protected character ahead of the rest of the party to occupy the enemies' attention. Once all the enemies are dead the berserk effect soon fades, so it's not particularly difficult to avoid attacks on the party.

jsaving

I once did a RP run where I had Minsc use only those weapons. As @Grond0 says it doesn't take all that long for the berserk condition to wear off, though if you mainly auto-attack you'll have to be more careful than usual with party positioning.

Djasko_Amsterdam

Just dont give em to a Kensai cause they make short work of most targets.

SirBatince

they are never good.

Even within perfect conditions (such as solo), losing your ability to control your char or use items and potions is invaluable.

a priest of tyr's innate could salvage them though.

Dharius

@SirBatince good call! I’m now inclined to agree that without the Acclamation spell, these items are probably not worth it after all.

World’s Edge (sp?) +3 is a better option anyway once it’s found. I love that sword

JDow

@Dharius

I did a run, 6 party members, where I gave Kagain three pips in flails/morning stars and used Kiel's morning star +3 extensively.

As per @SirBatince , the Priest of Tyr's Acclamation is useful. It basically negates the beserk effect leaving you with a +3 morning star or +3 two-handed sword. But there aren't any Priest of Tyr NPCs so CHARNAME would have to be one.

The beserk status effect gives you +2 THAC0 and +2 damage I believe. In addition to making you immune to lots of bad status effects. So I was trying to use that.

It took a while but I got the hang of it.

During battles, when Kagain went beserk he would almost always target the next enemy after killing the one he was on. Which is good. Only a few times did he target a party member instead. When that happens you have to take immediate action and 'de-beserk him' (remove curse, acclamation), and then finish the fight.

What I found was, if he went beserk, he would consistently chase one of my party members after killing the last enemy. However, you just get used to identifying who he is going after and then running them away from him. Kagain quickly comes out of beserk after a few seconds and cools down. It's like a little dance you have to keep doing.

Basically, you get a very powerful weapon/character but you do have to babysit them a bit and pay attention to who they're going to attack next. It's perfectly doable.

BUT, do NOT use the weapon in areas where there are innocents around because after killing the enemy your character could well attack an innocent and you'd loose reputation. So avoid using it in towns, Inns, etc.

To be honest, I'd feel comfortable doing this even without a Priest of Tyr and only one remove curse spell memorised on my cleric.

I wouldn't use Kiel's morning star AND the cursed sword of beserking together. Because after the battle, if the two characters started attacking each other rather than a party member you can run away, I'm not sure what would happen. Your guys could get pretty damaged.

I'd like to know what makes your character go beserk with the weapon. Because it doesn't alway happen. Is it a save vs. spell? If so, is the experience of using a dwarf fighter different from doing this with a human fighter because of their shorty saving throws? Does a dwarf fighter go beserk less often? IDK. Just asking.

Grond0

There's no saving throw. However, the berserk effect only gets checked once a round - so sometimes the wielder will go berserk immediately on sighting enemies, but sometimes not for a few seconds. That means it's quite possible against weaker enemies to have killed them before the wielder goes berserk.

Dharius

Yes! I was curious, because frankly Kiel’s Morningstar Is a hard item to obtain (the Doomguards that protect it are possibly the toughest enemies in Durlag’s Tower IMHO) so to find it’s just a rubbish cursed item would have been disappointing...good to know it has some value, with a bit of careful management.

Still can’t see the point in bringing it to BG2 though, only as a curio...Might be useful in SOD though I suppose.

Djasko_Amsterdam

Ok so i actually tried this with the Cursed Berserking Sword from BG2 and it worked nicely... you just need to have 1 casterslot filled with remove curse. I used it in the Sewer Fight against the party that demands payment for passage there. As my tank was already protected against mind spells with the shield from Trademeet, my Kensai needed something too... and i only had a multi cleric/rogue without Chaotic Commands yet. Didnt use it after when i got Chaotic Commands, but it proved its worth...

Aerie

Not to blow my own trumpet, but I am currently doing a cursed play-through right now. I'm using the Cursed Berserking sword and Kiels morning star permanently. So the whole run. I will not be taking them off.

Here's a link to it https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/79713/cursed-valygar-play-through

Permidion_Stark

I encountered a problem when using Brage's sword because I expected it to act as a Mind Shield and protect me from being held but it failed to do so when I ran into a bunch of Vampiric Wolves: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/77304/small-mods-you-would-like-to-see/p2

On reflection, this may have been because the berserk state hadn't kicked in when I was bitten and so I wasn't protected but my memory of the encounter is that I was berserk and still got held.

Pokota

Hm, that's a nice mod idea - have Kiel's Morningstar grant a passive Mind Shield effect (assuming that doesn't break the berserk effect)

Permidion_Stark

I didn't really rate Brage's sword because it is more like a sword of Rigid Thinking than a real berserking sword. When using it you don't get any of the bonuses Minsc gets when he goes berserk (+2 bonus to Strength and Dexterity, +15 HP) or the ones that apply to Berserkers when they become enraged (+2 bonus to damage rolls, -2 bonus to Armor Class and THAC0, +15 HP). A +3 sword is not to be sniffed at but I am not sure the bonuses are worth the hassle of using it.

jmerry

The berserk state comes with some bonuses along with the drawbacks; they're just not documented or displayed clearly.

Minsc's berserk ability uses the berserk state, like the weapons - that's why you lose control of him. Barbarian and berserker rage abilities don't.

SirBatince

I just want to point out Minsc's rage, the Berkserk Kit's rage and the cursed weapons rage are all three different abilities with their own specific effects. It is not one-size-fits-all. I do not believe cursed weapons give you any benefit or immunities whatsoever. Minsc's personal berserk was designed before BG2 and the kit existed so it likely has differences aswell.