Hello @Trouveur
I'm fine, thank you, but I no longer have time for these translations. I hope you're fine too.
Indeed, the company hired to translate BG II (and SoD) brought massive changes to the way most characters talk, using mostly "vouvoiement", even for party characters (a few were using "vouvoiement" in the original games, but that felt consistant with their upbringing or personnality). I also think this is very disturbing. I don't understand why they didn't take into account the BGEE translation and the original BG II translation.
Provided we finds volunteers, we might come up with a "correcfr" package for BG2EE and SoD to bring back "tutoiement" in the future. ;-)
Disturbing is putting it very mildly...
Only good point is that Jan Jansen finally has a proper TOB epilogue but that's about it...
Seing Imoen talk to you like she barely knows you or Korgan speak like is some king of noble person is just plain unprofessional and out of context translation. @JuliusBorisov I don't suppose the company can be contacted to fix the mess?
Are there even tools to edit the dialogs? I suppose it impacts the voice acting as well... not sure volunteers could handle that easily, and produce good-quality, consistent dialogs. Though in exchange of free licences, that's worth considering.
Voices will stay in English no matter what and that's fine by me, would break immersion too much to have a mix of them. The out of context translation is a huge disappointment on the other hand.
Voices will stay in English no matter what and that's fine by me, would break immersion too much to have a mix of them. The out of context translation is a huge disappointment on the other hand.
Oh, I haven't played Baldur's Gate 2 but I thought the purpose of the beta was to get the spoken dialogs in French too. Not sure what you mean by "have a mix of them", though, either it's translated or not.
I'm fine with subtitles, actually I usually prefer to play in English, old habit I guess. What I mean is that it would certainly be less work, and good voice acting is difficult to achieve, probably best to keep the existing ones in English
I asked about tools, because the dialogs have branches, and it would be better to have that in mind when translating them. I'm not sure how they handle that when they subcontract translators so that the result is consistent.
I am currently testing SoD with 2.6 patch in french, and I noticed than Imoen vouvoie Charname instead of using tutoiement.
It's very disturbing.
We have something similar in the intermission texts (and some other spots) in BG1 in german ...
In oldschool medieval/fantasy context, the german honorific / polite form to adress a person is "Ihr" (Ihr lebt in Kerzenburg).
The translation in 2.5 (maybe earlier too) has the modern form "Sie" (Sie leben in Kerzenburg). This is totally out of context in Baldurs Gate, breaking immersion.
(in english, both is just "You" – i think "Thou" is not equal but i'm no native speaker so ...)
I guess the translation company didn't care or was not informed about the setting of the game, and nobody checked the delivered translation results for consistency and context. Given the age and state of the EEs, i think there is nothing to rectify this officially anymore ... will be a task for fans.
Back a few hundred years ago, as preserved in the writings of Shakespeare and other documents from that era, English had both informal and formal second person pronouns. "Thee" was the informal, "you" was the formal.
Over time, the informal form went out of use and English standardized on "you". Only a few fringe religious groups still use "thee", and they use it as something of a statement of values; to the Quakers, everyone is a friend.
This is a common pattern across a number of languages. Many languages once had this formal/informal distinction, and many have lost it.
Modern works set in medieval-ish settings sometimes try to use "thee", but rarely match the historical mode. It sounds more flowery to a modern ear, so it gets used in more formal contexts where it shouldn't.
In the case of the (English language) BG series ... "you" all the way. The text is written in modern English, with dialects in the modern range for various characters.
In the case of the (English language) BG series ... "you" all the way. The text is written in modern English, with dialects in the modern range for various characters.
fully agree for English - "you" is just right for BG, except if some character needs some specific oldschool flavour.
As for German, "Ihr habt" (you have) is not informal, it is oldstyle respectful/honorific, while "Sie haben" (also you have) is also distanced but clearly modern style, maybe since 19th century to start, but more 20th century (i.e. you would never address a noble with "Sie" if you respect / roleplay to respect nobles - but this does not only apply to nobles but to anyone you would want to show some respect, be it to be polite, like an unknown traveler you address). The informal "Du hast" (you have) is reserved to friends and family, close colleagues, or quite modern 21st century (where "Sie haben" is considered to be uncool) to anyone you would think he's equal in status and situation whether you know him or not.
For the speaker of the BG intermissions, him respectfully but distanced as a mere narrator telling you that you lived in Candlekeep, "Ihr habt" is just the right form to address you. "Sie haben" is far too 20th century style, and "Du hast" would imply that the Main Character knows the translator and he's telling you now what happend last knight in that bar before you were knocked out.
(that's also why the German fan translation should be used for SoD instead of the "professional" translation introduced with the consoles ... it just feels "not wrong" in the subcontext)
@JuliusBorisov I notice I am late to the party but is there any user interface improvement planned for v2.6? I do not see anything in particular planned.
There are many improvements that can be done, see the mods created by several modders and the open discussions held on the topic. Could you manage to ask what the scope is for the next patch?
It's been 1 year since the translation "Português Brasil" is finished, there are thousands of Brazilian D&D fans waiting for it. I kindly ask you to include the translation so we can play.
I agree, it would be great if a rough timeline could be communicated.
Just like everybody else, I'm eager to get another playthrough of the BG and IWD series going with the 2.6 patch.
Hi, i'm glad to see the game supported after all those years and see bugs like the one "Tandem in extremis" fixed, it really annoyed me the fact i did everything and not only those several other entries werent closed, i have my small complaints to do though:
1 - You did a great job improving the game and removing some annoyances but didnt change one of the most annoying that is still there with teh game: The merchant outside Durlag's Tower, he doesnt accept all items we offer to him forcing us to go to the temple/beregost to sell them and if that wasnt enough he's still too far forcing us to go a long way to reach him (whatta hell were the devs thinking? that this would be fun? walking a lot, having a not so good merchant and stuff?) i propose to change him to stay inside the 1st floor of the tower (perhaps making that becoming a quest, he'll go there if you clean the place of all monsters/traps in the floor ) aside making him accept all items to make our lives easier.
2 - World map: the name of beregost stays over the one of the nearby location.
Are there any differences in the patch notes from 2.6 to 2.6.2?
Just hoping some long-standing issues have been addressed that weren't listed in the initial patch notes.
The first post has been edited January 13.
All I can tell for sure is these two lines weren't there before.
-Added French, Italian, German, Ukrainian and Polish text localizations to Siege of Dragonspear
-Added Brazilian Portuguese and Chinese (Simplified) text localizations to Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition
Hello! Is there / will there be a list with specifics for the changes to BG, SoD, and BGII? Something like listed game ressources, up to changed / inserted dialogue state numbers for dialogues. I already noticed a change which makes one of my mods incompatible with 2.6 which is not listed on the first post and would like to be able to consider changes in a feasible manner (having to go through all game ressources without knowing what to look for it not feasible.)
Thanks!
Can I assume that all mods will be wiped from the game when installing the new patch?
From my experience, having only (some parts of) SCS installed: yes and no.
The mod got kinda broken, and the solution was to run the setup again and tell it to reinstall all the components I had installed. After that, everything fine again.
I also installed Endless BG1 after that, limited to the main component however, which worked fine except for the incompatibility explained here:
I would think that the best way to go forth with the update is: create a completely clean install (no mods installed) of 2.6 and then install your mods.
I installed road to 2.6 onto an ongoing game being in SoD in the Repository of Undeath at the moment. A minor inconvenience is that I keep getting 2 Reputation sometimes for no reason, aand somehow being at 19 already, this chases Viconia away (this playthrough is (was?) dedicated to Viconia). A reload and sleep seems to fix it.
Also I am supposed to go to the troll waylay area after Coast Way Forest (killing Tsolak) but it does not trigger. Too bad as I need that Firefly sling.
Update: the location did indeed trigger after Boareskyr Bidge was discovered, so that is ok. Also Viconia left again during the battle for Bridgefort (reputation +2, back to 20), but simply stayed there and was available for rehire. That caused a 2 drop in Rep, so maybe she stays now.
For the experience without additional bugs, please test on a clean install. Make sure you don't have any files left from your previous (modded) setup left in override before you switch to the beta.
Just opted in for the beta of IWDEE on my M1 MacBook Air and when I press play I receive the error - you do not have permission to open the application "IcewindDale".
EDIT: BGEE works perfectly
I have been playing the stable release until 10 minutes ago.
This is my setup:
Model Name: MacBook Air
Model Identifier: MacBookAir10,1
Chip: Apple M1
Total Number of Cores: 8 (4 performance and 4 efficiency)
Memory: 16 GB
System Firmware Version: 6723.61.3
Comments
I am currently testing SoD with 2.6 patch in french, and I noticed than Imoen vouvoie Charname instead of using tutoiement.
It's very disturbing.
I'm fine, thank you, but I no longer have time for these translations. I hope you're fine too.
Indeed, the company hired to translate BG II (and SoD) brought massive changes to the way most characters talk, using mostly "vouvoiement", even for party characters (a few were using "vouvoiement" in the original games, but that felt consistant with their upbringing or personnality). I also think this is very disturbing. I don't understand why they didn't take into account the BGEE translation and the original BG II translation.
Provided we finds volunteers, we might come up with a "correcfr" package for BG2EE and SoD to bring back "tutoiement" in the future. ;-)
Only good point is that Jan Jansen finally has a proper TOB epilogue but that's about it...
Seing Imoen talk to you like she barely knows you or Korgan speak like is some king of noble person is just plain unprofessional and out of context translation.
@JuliusBorisov I don't suppose the company can be contacted to fix the mess?
I'm fine with subtitles, actually I usually prefer to play in English, old habit I guess. What I mean is that it would certainly be less work, and good voice acting is difficult to achieve, probably best to keep the existing ones in English
I asked about tools, because the dialogs have branches, and it would be better to have that in mind when translating them. I'm not sure how they handle that when they subcontract translators so that the result is consistent.
We have something similar in the intermission texts (and some other spots) in BG1 in german ...
- In oldschool medieval/fantasy context, the german honorific / polite form to adress a person is "Ihr" (Ihr lebt in Kerzenburg).
- The translation in 2.5 (maybe earlier too) has the modern form "Sie" (Sie leben in Kerzenburg). This is totally out of context in Baldurs Gate, breaking immersion.
(in english, both is just "You" – i think "Thou" is not equal but i'm no native speaker so ...)I guess the translation company didn't care or was not informed about the setting of the game, and nobody checked the delivered translation results for consistency and context. Given the age and state of the EEs, i think there is nothing to rectify this officially anymore ... will be a task for fans.
Back a few hundred years ago, as preserved in the writings of Shakespeare and other documents from that era, English had both informal and formal second person pronouns. "Thee" was the informal, "you" was the formal.
Over time, the informal form went out of use and English standardized on "you". Only a few fringe religious groups still use "thee", and they use it as something of a statement of values; to the Quakers, everyone is a friend.
This is a common pattern across a number of languages. Many languages once had this formal/informal distinction, and many have lost it.
Modern works set in medieval-ish settings sometimes try to use "thee", but rarely match the historical mode. It sounds more flowery to a modern ear, so it gets used in more formal contexts where it shouldn't.
In the case of the (English language) BG series ... "you" all the way. The text is written in modern English, with dialects in the modern range for various characters.
fully agree for English - "you" is just right for BG, except if some character needs some specific oldschool flavour.
As for German, "Ihr habt" (you have) is not informal, it is oldstyle respectful/honorific, while "Sie haben" (also you have) is also distanced but clearly modern style, maybe since 19th century to start, but more 20th century (i.e. you would never address a noble with "Sie" if you respect / roleplay to respect nobles - but this does not only apply to nobles but to anyone you would want to show some respect, be it to be polite, like an unknown traveler you address). The informal "Du hast" (you have) is reserved to friends and family, close colleagues, or quite modern 21st century (where "Sie haben" is considered to be uncool) to anyone you would think he's equal in status and situation whether you know him or not.
For the speaker of the BG intermissions, him respectfully but distanced as a mere narrator telling you that you lived in Candlekeep, "Ihr habt" is just the right form to address you. "Sie haben" is far too 20th century style, and "Du hast" would imply that the Main Character knows the translator and he's telling you now what happend last knight in that bar before you were knocked out.
(that's also why the German fan translation should be used for SoD instead of the "professional" translation introduced with the consoles ... it just feels "not wrong" in the subcontext)
There are many improvements that can be done, see the mods created by several modders and the open discussions held on the topic. Could you manage to ask what the scope is for the next patch?
Just like everybody else, I'm eager to get another playthrough of the BG and IWD series going with the 2.6 patch.
1 - You did a great job improving the game and removing some annoyances but didnt change one of the most annoying that is still there with teh game: The merchant outside Durlag's Tower, he doesnt accept all items we offer to him forcing us to go to the temple/beregost to sell them and if that wasnt enough he's still too far forcing us to go a long way to reach him (whatta hell were the devs thinking? that this would be fun? walking a lot, having a not so good merchant and stuff?) i propose to change him to stay inside the 1st floor of the tower (perhaps making that becoming a quest, he'll go there if you clean the place of all monsters/traps in the floor
2 - World map: the name of beregost stays over the one of the nearby location.
Just hoping some long-standing issues have been addressed that weren't listed in the initial patch notes.
The first post has been edited January 13.
All I can tell for sure is these two lines weren't there before.
-Added French, Italian, German, Ukrainian and Polish text localizations to Siege of Dragonspear
-Added Brazilian Portuguese and Chinese (Simplified) text localizations to Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition
Thanks!
From my experience, having only (some parts of) SCS installed: yes and no.
The mod got kinda broken, and the solution was to run the setup again and tell it to reinstall all the components I had installed. After that, everything fine again.
I also installed Endless BG1 after that, limited to the main component however, which worked fine except for the incompatibility explained here:
https://www.gibberlings3.net/forums/topic/31855-endless-bg1-bug-thread/
I would think that the best way to go forth with the update is: create a completely clean install (no mods installed) of 2.6 and then install your mods.
Also I am supposed to go to the troll waylay area after Coast Way Forest (killing Tsolak) but it does not trigger. Too bad as I need that Firefly sling.
Update: the location did indeed trigger after Boareskyr Bidge was discovered, so that is ok. Also Viconia left again during the battle for Bridgefort (reputation +2, back to 20), but simply stayed there and was available for rehire. That caused a 2 drop in Rep, so maybe she stays now.
EDIT: BGEE works perfectly
I have been playing the stable release until 10 minutes ago.
This is my setup:
Model Name: MacBook Air
Model Identifier: MacBookAir10,1
Chip: Apple M1
Total Number of Cores: 8 (4 performance and 4 efficiency)
Memory: 16 GB
System Firmware Version: 6723.61.3
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1156390/#Comment_1156390
I will echo what jastey had said - will more technical details for modders be presented?
I've been waiting for this patch to start a new game.
Any idea when it will come out? It seems like it's close but are we talking about days, weeks, months?
My apologies if this was answered elsewhere, I did search for a date but couldn't find one.
Thanks for the work you put into it, especially after all these years.