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Thanks for Breaking the Game Once AGAIN, 2.6.5.

AshLancerAshLancer Member Posts: 3
Let's begin with the very first thing I notice upon starting up a fresh install of SoA:

On Normal difficulty, I step into the room with the lightning machine in Irenicus Chateau. Lightning bolt fires. It takes Imoen down to near-death in one shot. Why? Because someone thought it would be funny to have lightning bolts bounce off walls without actually playing the game to consider the ramifications of such a stupid decision. Good job.

But let's set that aside, shall we? That's peanuts compared to what you guys really busted with this patch. I can no longer hear sound when right-clicking any monster. Not the jailkeeper golem, mephits, Aataqah the Genie, goblins, nothing. None of them produce any sound whatsoever. And yet NPCs like Minsc and Jahiera still work. ....I don't get it. It pretty much ruins the entire game for me and after spending hours of painstaking reading, research, downloading, installing, testing...getting my mod order setup to absolute perfection. I've pretty much completely lost any interest, whatsoever in playing.

You guys. Had over 5 months. To playtest this utter insult of a patch out. Yet you couldn't even pickup on the most basic of glitches? Really?

I wrote a mod for an old 1991 DOS RPG in about 6 months, fixing virtually every single bug in the entire game, alone, with only one year of high school-level knowledge in Java, and knowing nothing whatsoever about their programming language. I found the tools, decompiled the language, studied the methods and variables, reproduced the bugs, developed the patch, tested it thoroughly..devoutly over several character builds to ensure that every single thing worked as intended. That was me being lazy. I could've done it in 3 months, had I devoted full time to this project instead of just for fun.

What did you do, Beamdog? Grace us with Trent Oster RPing a barbarian in bed? ...Oh. Must be nice, slacking on your projects. Coming up with excuses. Dumping half-finished work on the consumers you seem to despise.

I was honestly prepared to give you guys some deserved praise this time around: You finally got off your sedentary rocks and fixed the bug where importing dual-classed characters was cutting their HP in half. Congrats! It only took you, pfft..what? S_E_V_E_N yEArS, but hey, you got it done. Should I expect the right-click sound not playing bug to be fixed sometime within the next decade, as well? Please, grace me with a response. I sooo do look forward to hearing what went wrong this time around!

Comments

  • AshLancerAshLancer Member Posts: 3
    edited April 24
    Oh and, just for sh*ts and giggles~
    Here are a couple other things I noticed before quitting:

    - Stein, the NPC that spawns in the Graveyard District at night, still appears and disappears too fast for the player to click on him, because he's too close to the wall.
    - You can tell Lieutenant Aegisfield about Missus Cragmoon being a witch, forever, and earn infinite xp. Because the option never goes away unless you progress the quest. And it rewards you with 10,000 xp each time.

    Pretty sure these have also been bugs in the game for the past 8 years. But hey, I'm honestly too burned out to do research on that. Good luck~

  • Allanon81Allanon81 Member Posts: 150
    To be fair from what I’ve read and observed about these quirky infinity engine games is firstly they’re massive and secondly when bugs get “fixed” that tends to introduce bugs somewhere else unrelated. Then those get fixed and then other bugs pop up, so I don’t know. We’re all a little frustrated. Maybe I’m just numb to it by now?

  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 790
    edited April 24
    AshLancer wrote: »
    You guys. Had over 5 months. To playtest this utter insult of a patch out. Yet you couldn't even pickup on the most basic of glitches? Really?
    It was an open beta (Beamdog gives out steam keys if you already own the game elsewhere). You had over 5 months to report this stuff.

    Out of curiosity: which dos game did you mod?

    Timbo0o0o0
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,709
    Hey @AshLancer! Please follow the Site Rules when commenting on this forum. This is a place for constructive dialogue, please don't insult developers as they are members of this forum.

    Patch 2.6 won't fix every issue in the games, we're still working on future updates. I have repro-ed the bug with no sound from the creature, thanks for reporting. This has now been passed to the developers.

    The lightning bolt now functions as it did in the original games: the bolt continues in a straight line beyond the initial target, hitting all in its path and bouncing off obstacles. It was just as dangerous in the original games as it's now.

    The Infinity Engine is old and tricky, and one fix can easily lead to another bug. This is why we're continuing to work on the games in 2021. We've been beta-testing the patches for nearly a year, but unfortunately, there is no possibility the real live release of the patch can be compared to any testing, internal and external, in terms of issues found.

    BertleArviafewerlawsTimbo0o0o0
  • BertleBertle Member Posts: 45
    This seems a little harsh to me.

    1) Haven't lightning bolts always bounced? I have always used a mod specifically to prevent that, but my understanding was that that was how they were supposed to function.

    2) Right-clicking on creatures and they're silent makes the game unplayable to you? All things considered, that seems like a minor bug that is more feature than gameplay.

    Personally I was really glad that they're still updating my favorite game that is over 20 years old. It hurts my heart a little to imagine the devs reading responses like this on their hard work, rather than constructive feedback and bug reports.

    Allanon81fewerlaws
  • edgartheslayeredgartheslayer Member Posts: 3
    Haven't played bg2ee in a while but lighting bolts always bounced. But Mephit's did not shoot lightning bolts. It's just a projectile with it's sprite, they did not bounce if I remember correctly. Beamdog probably thought- "huh, aren't these lightning bolts? wHy aren't they bouncing? Let's fix that". I don't think those should bounce doug

    But the biggest problem of this is actual lightning bolts being very inconsistent. They often ghost through walls(maybe the one's mephits shot at me just always ghosted through walls too idk), if an ogre mage casts one point blank at you in bg1 - they would miss you even when standing still. Their tracking is nerfed too much that they can miss the original moving target at range as well. In original BG1 lighting bolt was the diciest and most deadly spell, the most respect worthy of them all. But they are a broken joke in EE with uintuitive hitboxes and I hope whatever this mephin business was, if true- was a step closer to fixing the spell, please keep going beamdog

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,709
    edited April 24
    Haven't played bg2ee in a while but lighting bolts always bounced. But Mephit's did not shoot lightning bolts. It's just a projectile with it's sprite, they did not bounce if I remember correctly. Beamdog probably thought- "huh, aren't these lightning bolts? wHy aren't they bouncing? Let's fix that". I don't think those should bounce doug

    But the biggest problem of this is actual lightning bolts being very inconsistent. They often ghost through walls(maybe the one's mephits shot at me just always ghosted through walls too idk), if an ogre mage casts one point blank at you in bg1 - they would miss you even when standing still. Their tracking is nerfed too much that they can miss the original moving target at range as well. In original BG1 lighting bolt was the diciest and most deadly spell, the most respect worthy of them all. But they are a broken joke in EE with uintuitive hitboxes and I hope whatever this mephin business was, if true- was a step closer to fixing the spell, please keep going beamdog

    Are you describing the 2.5 or 2.6 behaviour of the lightning bolt? Because the wrong projectile has been fixed by 2.6.

  • edgartheslayeredgartheslayer Member Posts: 3
    Haven't played bg2ee in a while but lighting bolts always bounced. But Mephit's did not shoot lightning bolts. It's just a projectile with it's sprite, they did not bounce if I remember correctly. Beamdog probably thought- "huh, aren't these lightning bolts? wHy aren't they bouncing? Let's fix that". I don't think those should bounce doug

    But the biggest problem of this is actual lightning bolts being very inconsistent. They often ghost through walls(maybe the one's mephits shot at me just always ghosted through walls too idk), if an ogre mage casts one point blank at you in bg1 - they would miss you even when standing still. Their tracking is nerfed too much that they can miss the original moving target at range as well. In original BG1 lighting bolt was the diciest and most deadly spell, the most respect worthy of them all. But they are a broken joke in EE with uintuitive hitboxes and I hope whatever this mephin business was, if true- was a step closer to fixing the spell, please keep going beamdog

    Are you describing the 2.5 or 2.6 behaviour of the lightning bolt? Because the wrong projectile has been fixed by 2.6.

    Yeah, I was describing the pre recent patch, so 2.5 I suppose. Your comment implies that the whole lighting bolt thing was fixed? Looking forward to seeing it in action

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,709
    Yes, please check out the patch notes (a sticked thread in News).

  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 471
    edited April 24
    The lightning bolts definitely need to be put back the way they were. They just killed my new Player who started the game with 45 HP as soon as I walked into the room, as well as Jaheira after they rebounded. Just for walking into one of the first rooms of the game.

    It was a nice idea, and I understand why they tried it, but it's completely offputting as it is, and should have been sensibly playtested.

    Post edited by Dharius on
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,709
    edited April 24
    There is an item under the patch notes, in Known Issues:
    Lightning trap spell projectiles should not bounce [BGEE, BG2EE]

    It HAD been playtested, and the conclusion had already been made, just didn't make it into 2.6. See https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1165249/#Comment_1165249 and the previous comment

    Post edited by JuliusBorisov on
    DhariusArvia
  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 471
    edited April 24
    Alright then :) on the plus side the new portraits and voicesets are very welcome.

  • AshLancerAshLancer Member Posts: 3
    Allanon81 wrote: »
    To be fair from what I’ve read and observed about these quirky infinity engine games is firstly they’re massive and secondly when bugs get “fixed” that tends to introduce bugs somewhere else unrelated. Then those get fixed and then other bugs pop up, so I don’t know. We’re all a little frustrated. Maybe I’m just numb to it by now?

    Yes, thank you Allanon. That about sums it up. Frustration. About 8 or 9 years of pent-up frustration. Y'all remember when BG1:EE came out and someone broke the very first quest in the game, right? The quest to fetch Firebead an Identify scroll. That was a public release.

    Look, I get that the game is extremely complicated and code is likely interconnected in different areas, but that's still an excuse. When you've got a team, and budget, and resources, and thousands of players willing to test and report issues, and when you've got genuine passion for a project, the odds of constantly (and by that I mean on a yearly basis) releasing patches containing major gameplay bugs should be nearly non-existent. Aaand yet that's exactly what we've been seeing here.
    Bertle wrote: »
    This seems a little harsh to me.

    1) Haven't lightning bolts always bounced? I have always used a mod specifically to prevent that, but my understanding was that that was how they were supposed to function.

    2) Right-clicking on creatures and they're silent makes the game unplayable to you? All things considered, that seems like a minor bug that is more feature than gameplay.

    Personally I was really glad that they're still updating my favorite game that is over 20 years old. It hurts my heart a little to imagine the devs reading responses like this on their hard work, rather than constructive feedback and bug reports.

    IIRC, Lightning bolts bounced in the original BG and TotSC, but in BG2 Bioware changed it to pass through walls in a straight line. I remember the Chateau Irenicus machine not being very dangerous in the original game and 2.5, but the way it is now is just far, far too damaging for a lvl 10 party, and straight-up lethal for a lvl 7 party. Imagine trying to do a hardcore run on your stream and having it end 5 minutes into the game because of something you didn't expect. Whatever, like I said it's just a minor issue.

    Yes, believe it or not, I actually long-play the Baldur's Gate series every time for the RPG experience and for the story. Right-clicking on creatures and hearing the various voice files is the source of a lot of the game's humor and charm. Having it break with no mention whatsoever in the known issues is about as close to a slap in the face as you can get. It's right up there with irritating issues like goblins constantly playing their sound effects in corridors after they're already dead, or hobgoblins no longer having pitch shifting in their voices they did in the original BG.

    So, sorry if it sounds harsh. I really am sorry. I'm not actively trying to sandbag people who are working hard. But when you're paying actual money for a service, you expect some degree of quality assurance. They aren't delivering satisfactory results. They haven't been delivering over the last 8 years with these kinds of major bugs I see crop up in public releases over and over again, year after year. So they get harsher criticism until the message sinks in. It's not our [consumers'] job to ensure that the release meets standards, it's QA's responsibility.
    There is an item under the patch notes, in Known Issues:
    Lightning trap spell projectiles should not bounce [BGEE, BG2EE]

    It HAS been playtested, and the conclusion had already been made, just didn't make it to 2.6. See https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1165249/#Comment_1165249 and the previous comment

    No, no it is not under the known issues section of the patch notes on the Steam page, where most of the general public gets informed about this update. You put the item on the front page of the Road to 2.6 topic on this forum, and even there, it makes no mention whatsoever about the trap in Irenicus Chateau nor does it include a link to that post. The way the item is written makes it sound as if you've already reverted the fix in 2.6, which you did not. As Dharius pointed out: Your average player is going to start a new game, walk into that room, and drop dead instantly without a clue as to why. Seriously, just admit your mistake and move on.

    Thank you for reporting the issue about the sound, but forgive me if I don't expect a fix anytime within the next year or more at the rate you guys move. Patch 2.5 came out in June, 2018. I'm better off reverting to that version, as it's more-or-less a stable release. Sorry, but you just can't rebuild trust with promises.

    Ammar
  • ArhymerArhymer Member Posts: 1
    edited April 24
    Melf's Minute Meteors now cancels all remaining missiles if you MOVE. Seriously, what kinda CRAP TEAM ARE YOU?!

    I never ASKED FOR this patch and it was FORCED on me. Now it is SERIOUSLY COMPROMISED. Thanks for nothing.

  • Allanon81Allanon81 Member Posts: 150
    Be nice if Beamdog made a thread where people ask “Why this bug?” and then they could explain the more subtle weirdness(in a good way) that is the Infinity Engine.

  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,178
    Some thoughts here: I do think the infinite engine is very finicky and introducing new bugs while working on old bugs can happen easily.

    At the same time I understand the anger here - those three issues (lightning, creature sounds and conjured weapons in multiplayer) are all more or less serious bugs and as has been said before there is a long history of Beamdog patches introducing new bugs at the first part of the game.

    The first time I played BG:EE I had the blurry screen issue. The second time I noticed that one of the first quests in the game, the Firebead quest was broken. Dying in Chateau Irenicus due to the bouncing projectile is similar to that.

    And I have also said this before: I think the patch policy is a problem here. Patches are years apart by now and all of them are major and change 100s of things. That is a recipe for each patch introducing new problems. It was worse when the patches also included major features like new kits - but as evidenced by 2.6 it is still an issue even if it mostly bugfixes.

    What seems to be needed here are minor patches that get released maybe a month after a major patch, that just fix the glaring issues instead of doing 100s of very minor bugfixes. Don't make people wait 2 years for a fix of those issues before - I think if people knew a minor patch for those issues was coming soon they would deal with it better.

  • regexpheroregexphero Member Posts: 2
    Hexxat seems to be broken for me. Clara isn't present in the copper cornet so you are unable to start the chain. Reverting to 2.5 fixes it.

  • GundanRTOGundanRTO Member Posts: 72
    You know....the lightning that the OP complained about can be circumvented completely by Imoen's MGI spell, which she has memorized at the start of the game. Caste Haste, MGI, turn off switch, dispatch Mephit, move on. Pretty simple, and not worth complaining about, imo.

    I, for one, welcome a more dangerous opening situation, if only to serve as a reminder that you should play smart and be as prepared as you can from the start.

  • regexpheroregexphero Member Posts: 2
    regexphero wrote: »
    Hexxat seems to be broken for me. Clara isn't present in the copper cornet so you are unable to start the chain. Reverting to 2.5 fixes it.

    I have to state my game is modded, but reinstalling the mods after reverting to 2.5 fixes any issues I am having with Hexxat.

  • GundanRTOGundanRTO Member Posts: 72
    edited April 29
    GundanRTO wrote: »
    You know....the lightning that the OP complained about can be circumvented completely by Imoen's MGI spell, which she has memorized at the start of the game. Caste Haste, MGI, turn off switch, dispatch Mephit, move on. Pretty simple, and not worth complaining about, imo.

    I, for one, welcome a more dangerous opening situation, if only to serve as a reminder that you should play smart and be as prepared as you can from the start.

    Optionally, you can have Jaheira cast Protection from Lightning on someone, have them cast them flip the switch and dispatch the Mephit (or vice versa) and move on. The game provides you with multiple ways to overcome that initial obstacle.

    Honestly, I think that if @AshLancer experienced an issue with Imoen suffering damage from a source that's easily nullified, it's because they screwed up and failed to take necessary precautions before "venturing forth". Regardless of whether the lightning was intended to bounce or no, the OP's poor gameplay doesn't warrant a post that comes across as needlessly confrontational and irrationally hostile.

    Post edited by GundanRTO on
  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 311
    Pokota wrote: »
    AshLancer wrote: »
    You guys. Had over 5 months. To playtest this utter insult of a patch out. Yet you couldn't even pickup on the most basic of glitches? Really?
    It was an open beta (Beamdog gives out steam keys if you already own the game elsewhere). You had over 5 months to report this stuff.

    Out of curiosity: which dos game did you mod?

    While I don't agree with how harsh this post is, it's not players job to test the game for game the developers.

    Arhymer
  • TaylanTaylan Member Posts: 72
    @AshLancer, have you ever worked professionally as a software developer on large projects? I'm guessing that the DOS RPG you patched wasn't nearly as complex as the Infinity Engine.

    And hey, maybe you're actually a super talented programmer, who knows. (Not being sarcastic.) One shouldn't forget that the average software developer is, by definition, average. Really good programmers don't grow on trees or drop from the sky. And once you've found one, paying them full-time can be pretty freaking expensive.

  • CLsdlt80CLsdlt80 Member Posts: 73
    I remember playing the cds in the 90s, vanilla BG on a windows 95 or 98 machine can't even remember... and the amount of bugs and crashes were surreal. I liked the game so much that I would just keep an insane amount of saves (they would get corrupted) and just convincing myself that the game crashing after almost clearing a map would be good in a way since the respawns meant more experience. I for one appreciate being able to play today in these editions running as smoothly as they do. Every time I used to play BG back in the day, even after patches and fan fixes, I was always on the lookout for bugs and was messing around with save game editors, near infinity, etc. fixing and changing stuff on my own, aside for being on the lookout for more patches or mods, it just became part of the experience.

    This is why I never expected these editions to be exempt from somewhat similar issues, and also imagined there'd be modding and fan patching. Currently playing vanilla BG1 latest patch on the SoD .exe and having a blast.

    Skatan
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 854
    >Steam
    >Right Click BG2ee
    >Properties
    >Betas
    >Opt in 1.3

    congrats, all your grievances are gone forever

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,709
    edited May 10
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