Shaman class, why people think its bad?
Gel87
Member Posts: 228
Yo, i have seen so many people claiming shaman is bad etc. But i just tried him myself and for me he is inzanly good…
I think people are trying out the dance and automaticly thinks shaman is bad. But the dance barely needs to be used. Actually dancing on a shaman is a waste of time unless you run dry of spells or summons.
There is only a few scenarios where the dance is relevant…
But what the shaman has is a very flexible spellcasting! You can freely cast out of ur selected spells. And you dont miss any spells, cause not every spell is good each level…. On top of this after HLA is maxed you have 13 level 7 casts instead of 6 which a druid got…
Ranged 1-6 for which should be picked first, ofc depends if ur solo or with team. Solo players may need harm more than they need invisibility forexample.
I did the mistake to not start out as a half orc.
A half orc solo play shaman will end up something like this after books:
20str
19dex
20conc
10intellect
15 wisdom
10-15charisma
On top of this bhaalpower will in the end Max out str/dex/conc to 25.
On legacy of bhaal difficulty:
So, in the start a bow or sling + knife or axe in combi with doom/entangle will make you able to sling down certain key enemies like shaol the siren.
Drizzt will easy go down if you cast magic res + just rain down call of Lightning from urself and nymphs. The nymphs can also stun him with hold person, and you can use harm to bring him down to 1HP. Hitting him when stunned is easy anyway.
Karoug the greater werewolf will also go down easy. There are 2-3 ways to kill him:
He has 100% magic res and repl faster than most things can damage him.
But casting magic res on him + stunning him with nymphs is a great start.
Then you can try theese 3 things:
1. 5 nymphs + urself rain down call of Lightning on him.
2. Harm to bring to 1, then melee him with silver dagger.
3. USE the cursed scroll from lucky aello. You should buy all 3.
Sarevork, demon in durlag tower etc could be fine targets for such scroll as well. Or save for SOD bosses.
But depending on if you play with level cap or not and which skills you pick a fireelemental can kill several hard battles on their own. Actually sarevork and that demon cannot kill a firelemental.
The violet potion should be bought and used to force open the chest with the manual of strenght. Unless you play with a thief who can open lock, or a mage with knock spell.
I think you can pretty much open any other chest in the game with bhaalpower usage. The shaman cannot drink regular strenght boosting pots.
All outdoor will be easely killed by 5 nymphs and urself using both stun and call of lightning.
Nymphs can hold monster/person and melee their way true both mines easy, only undead inside can be a issue, but lure them outside if you can. They can Even ankegg farm effectivly with hold monster + melee. And nymphs has mass cure to heal you yo whenever.
They can also charm and use enemies as cannon feed.
Traps can be survived Even in double damage modes with use of:
Armor of faith
Resist cold/fire
Lightning resist boots
Stoneskin
Cure psn bhaalpower.
Fire elementals can easy take out most thought enemies.
The druid also has a lvl 4 magic fireball albility, and a albility to increase saving throws and a albility to rid ur summons of all kind of panic/feeblemind and mind control spells to bring them back in fight.
Insect plague will make mages and invisible enemies be easy in combi with clear invisibility area spell. And nymphs also can cast 1 misscast magic each.
The use of the wizard eye spell is very good in combi with summons. You can basicly set up the fight before enemies Are ready. And you can let ur summons fight for you while ur offscreen from enemies.
Invisible people is hard to land spells on. As you cannot target them.
But insect plague can be casted on ur summons/urself without damaging them, and will spread to invisible people, and u can remove their invisibility with level 2 or 3 spell as well.
I think people are trying out the dance and automaticly thinks shaman is bad. But the dance barely needs to be used. Actually dancing on a shaman is a waste of time unless you run dry of spells or summons.
There is only a few scenarios where the dance is relevant…
But what the shaman has is a very flexible spellcasting! You can freely cast out of ur selected spells. And you dont miss any spells, cause not every spell is good each level…. On top of this after HLA is maxed you have 13 level 7 casts instead of 6 which a druid got…
Ranged 1-6 for which should be picked first, ofc depends if ur solo or with team. Solo players may need harm more than they need invisibility forexample.
I did the mistake to not start out as a half orc.
A half orc solo play shaman will end up something like this after books:
20str
19dex
20conc
10intellect
15 wisdom
10-15charisma
On top of this bhaalpower will in the end Max out str/dex/conc to 25.
On legacy of bhaal difficulty:
So, in the start a bow or sling + knife or axe in combi with doom/entangle will make you able to sling down certain key enemies like shaol the siren.
Drizzt will easy go down if you cast magic res + just rain down call of Lightning from urself and nymphs. The nymphs can also stun him with hold person, and you can use harm to bring him down to 1HP. Hitting him when stunned is easy anyway.
Karoug the greater werewolf will also go down easy. There are 2-3 ways to kill him:
He has 100% magic res and repl faster than most things can damage him.
But casting magic res on him + stunning him with nymphs is a great start.
Then you can try theese 3 things:
1. 5 nymphs + urself rain down call of Lightning on him.
2. Harm to bring to 1, then melee him with silver dagger.
3. USE the cursed scroll from lucky aello. You should buy all 3.
Sarevork, demon in durlag tower etc could be fine targets for such scroll as well. Or save for SOD bosses.
But depending on if you play with level cap or not and which skills you pick a fireelemental can kill several hard battles on their own. Actually sarevork and that demon cannot kill a firelemental.
The violet potion should be bought and used to force open the chest with the manual of strenght. Unless you play with a thief who can open lock, or a mage with knock spell.
I think you can pretty much open any other chest in the game with bhaalpower usage. The shaman cannot drink regular strenght boosting pots.
All outdoor will be easely killed by 5 nymphs and urself using both stun and call of lightning.
Nymphs can hold monster/person and melee their way true both mines easy, only undead inside can be a issue, but lure them outside if you can. They can Even ankegg farm effectivly with hold monster + melee. And nymphs has mass cure to heal you yo whenever.
They can also charm and use enemies as cannon feed.
Traps can be survived Even in double damage modes with use of:
Armor of faith
Resist cold/fire
Lightning resist boots
Stoneskin
Cure psn bhaalpower.
Fire elementals can easy take out most thought enemies.
The druid also has a lvl 4 magic fireball albility, and a albility to increase saving throws and a albility to rid ur summons of all kind of panic/feeblemind and mind control spells to bring them back in fight.
Insect plague will make mages and invisible enemies be easy in combi with clear invisibility area spell. And nymphs also can cast 1 misscast magic each.
The use of the wizard eye spell is very good in combi with summons. You can basicly set up the fight before enemies Are ready. And you can let ur summons fight for you while ur offscreen from enemies.
Invisible people is hard to land spells on. As you cannot target them.
But insect plague can be casted on ur summons/urself without damaging them, and will spread to invisible people, and u can remove their invisibility with level 2 or 3 spell as well.
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First time trying shaman, it feels great. Legacy of bhaal with all the double damage and random HP per level etc enabled.
I also like Shamans, but I try to use the Dance as soon as possible (for roleplaying reasons). Currently, I have a Shaman in my random SoA trio:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/88695/quick-campaigns-fully-random-trios
Entangle (to fix enemies) + Shamanic dance! 👯♀️
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/88036/list-of-kits-able-to-start-at-lob-difficulty-with-regular-not-cheesy-tactics
Wait, I will quickly test a minimaxed half-orc Shaman in Black Pits 1&2 (LoB from scratch). 👯♀️😸
The problem is that it takes to long :P Hogoblin even with 4-5 guards and 2 spirits and 3 sling hits previous, doom'ed takes a long time :P
I used shamanic dance to offscreen attack the mage in the friendly arm in, had to sling him hostile first.
Some mages i had to finnish off me shamanic dance, like the one in the cloakwood mines etc.
I used it when out of summons or options etc. And vs sonner, cause breaking axes and using up sling shots are boring :P
Also used it vs basilisk in combi with the ghoul
First, the dance. Free unlimited summons. That sounds amazing, even with no ability to control the summons. And it is ... if you have the time to set up, wait for some spirits to arrive, and then draw the enemies to you. If you start dancing when the fight begins, the spirits arrive too slowly to matter. So this goes into a category with other "prepare the battlefield" abilities like thief traps. And that's stiff competition.
Then there's the spellcasting. Spontaneous casting like a sorcerer, drawn from the druid spell list - which is notorious for having a few high-powered spells that overshadow the others at their levels. Sounds great, right? Well, there's a catch. You have the sorcerer's level progression instead of the druid's, and that makes you much slower to reach level 5 and 6 spells. A single-class druid first gains access to level 6 spells at 200K XP. A shaman first gains access to level 5 spells at 250K XP. For that key window - basically, the SoD campaign - you're a full spell level or more behind druid spellcasting.
And finally, the weapon selection. It's a completely different list than the druid. All new stuff to try out! But ... you still don't have any of the cleric self-buffs, except maybe Bhaalspawn DUHM. So you don't get to do much of the fun stuff with those weapons, and you'll probably just carry a bow instead of a sling.
I see your points, but when it comes to the dance you can set up south in the edge of sight of enemy and ur summons will spawn and start agro enemy offscreen. Using wizard eye spell helps setting things up. I also used them in the end of an battle, where i was out of relevant indoor spells and my summons was about to die, then summons would keep agro off myself and spirit animals would appear once summons dies, as they share summon cap. Also, for me spirit animals is more or less only for long duration battle's where you run out of options in the end. And for a few spots to cheeze. Mostly ur doing off better by spellcasting and summoning and even attacking as nymphs has stunned enemies. Infact i would love to replace the dance with something else, in a kit or smt :P
Nymphs will carry a long way and is the first pick of level 4 spells. They are just so inzanly good. Call of lghtning, nymphs etc will be ur biggest DPS even when level 7 spells are on the line, and prior to durlags tower or bg2 there is not much indoor stuff except mines, and 5 nymphs will stun and melee all inside mines etc. Small houses etc you can just lure enemies outside. When it comes to durlag tower i prefer fire elementals as nymps dont stand a chance vs strong undeads due to lack of stun vs them.
Shaman may be a natural carrier of strong throwing axes like azuredge, or the +2 variants in bgee. And he may be a natural user of the +4 shortbow which you craft in bg2 or the +1 or +2 shortbow in bgee, i think there is only +1 cant remember. He may use all the fancy arrows, or he can wield the +3 sling with +2 bullets in bgee and allow his high strenght to be an advantage.
I get 2 bhaalpower DUHM, as a half orc he is starting at 19str/18dex/19conc, after books its 20str/19dex/20conc and with bhaalpower its quickly 25/25/25. Oil of speed for solo bgee, improved haste via gear in bg2ee solos.
For party play party member can haste him.
There is also the +6 decapitator axe in bg2ee.
With the item upgrade mod there is a +4 azuredge as well.
Staff is also an option ofc.
And for bgee your melee as a caster is usually dagger of venom.
If u have full party, most likely you will be casting spells the entire battle :P
And when it comes to bosskilling in bgee forexample:
Harm + Stun ideally
Cursed scroll
Fire elementals
Stun and kill with nymphs
Nymps and call of lighning outdoor
And magic res spell will fix the issue with 100% MR bosses.
I just did a solo druid, i just did a fighter/druid as well. Both solo. I just feel like shaman always has loads more relevant spells and flexibility compared to them. Personally i dont think the Shapechange greater elementals is so extreamly good, ofc its good, its usable, but not enought to put it above all else that a shaman can provide in high levels.
LOB compared to SCS inzane mode is quite different. LOB = Durance test, you have the issue of running out of spells. Even a farmer/commoner has like 90HP. You wont be one tapping anything by direct damage, unless backstabbing. Ofc there is skills that can one tap.
Compared to cleric i miss flame strike indoor and i miss DEVA, espesially for undeads. But, thats where azuredge balances it up well
I also modified insect plague and creeping doom. At very high levels they start dealing 2, then 4, then 6 damage each tic. Insect stop at 4, creeping at 6. Again, this is legacy of bhaal, so it wont be enought with a single cast, most likely when ur at this level you need to spam them on top of eachother and still bosses wont go down.
In IWD, Druids and Shamans have Static Charge spell of level 4, the indoor analog of Call Lightning. 😉
Thats sounds nice yes.
Acid blub, or turning the green entangle stuck animation into more brown colour and have a spell called Root Strangeling or something
I have like 12+ selfmade kits on my baldurs gate, so i have loads of fun custom spells like:
Thunderbolt of death, Raged Spirit Blast, Soul Harvest, Crystal Dragon Breath, Bone spear etc which could be nice indoor spells. Some of them got implemented with my Malificent kit, and some with my Banshee kit. Also have wing slam and custom Banshee screem which starts "weak" and ends strong :P
Sat the entire lunch break turning angazar scorcerer animations to more red colour by removing yellow etc for a "Bloodlink" albility for vampire kit, and has spend loads of time turning white blood into red blood on bams, and custom Blood Drink albility, and Bat Swarm spell etc xD Theese are very fun spells, the bats are scriptet, basicly only missing remove blue circle and change MoveToObject with FlyToObject xD Bats are hasted as well for it to look more agressive :P
Vampirekit will be a monk kit, with fun vampirealbilities like:
Vampiric Fear, BloodDrain, Bloodlink, Bat Swarm, Skull trap, Vampiric Domination and possible some death spell, dno yet, i have a tendency to go to OP sometimes xD Short duration level drain should be easy to make from Quilvering Palm etc. But needs to be less powerfull than typical vampires who drain 4 levels with 100% chance and only saving throw stopping it. Also it will die in sunlight unless Daywalker Ring is used and its turned vampires will die in sunlight nomatter what :P
Great! 👍 But I play on Switch and can't use it. 😼
Haha, okay
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/88695/quick-campaigns-fully-random-trios
My Shaman in TotL is kinda Abjurer/Transmuter (the privilege is given to spells of these opposite schools). 👈
Sounds fun, have not yet tried that none campaign mode :P
I kinda play to much different atm.
Monk - Level 18 solo LOB Siege of Dragon Spear currently.
Shapeshifter - BGEE End
Banshee - BGEE Middle
Fighter/Dru BG2EE Middle
Shaman BGEE close to end
Thief/Mage BG2EE mid
But i think i will focus on Shaman, monk and Banshee. But i really want to start Banshee+NinjaAssassin+VampireMonk soon as well as a trio xD
1. The summon dance is simply bad imo. This comes from a perspective of enjoying no-reload or limited reload runs. So I highly favor predictability in my ability choices. The summon dance can be immensely effective in some situations, but it comes at too high a sacrifice. Maybe if it wasn't the protagonist who was locked and vulnerable, I'd like it more.
2. The sorceror-style casting is great. And really starts to shine once you unlock level 5. The added spells round out some of the weaknesses from druid.
3. Don't underestimate the dispel illusion thief ability. You can squeeze this in on certain fights as you would with a bardsong, in between actions. Can work really well with how the enemies are programmed to use invisibility, even better in BG2 where that's more common.
4. Because of this, I tend to favor throwing axes or daggers over the shortbow. But your weapon choice may depend on party composition as well. That being said, those are your three top options, all great choices in the saga. Yes, even shortbow in BG1. Moreover, half-orc works as the best race, for the strength throwing bonuses.
5. Worth considering a high charisma on this guy, especially beneficial in BG1. If you have a high enough roll. Wisdom and intelligence won't do much for you. Don't need a high strength if you go short bow.
6. As I said in the opening, allows an evil party with access to druid spells. Something a little tricky to pull off in BG2, roleplay wise. You can justify Faldorn in an evil BG1 party imo. More of a roleplay point here, not a powergaming point.
But the bgee wiki is not correct, it says you can have up to 14 level 7 spells due to haiking a cast when choosing hla. Well this was very appealing for me, i already had a druid run and a fighter/druid run ongoing, but started a new shaman due to that thing. But it stopped at 6 casts for level 7 spells… Even though i only miss 1 or 2 hla’s.
Dont take me wrong, i still love the shaman, but that 14 x level 7 spells was the main appeal for me
So, I dont know if i will be strong enough for the last battle in TOB wearing only 6 x level 7 spells, but i will try. If not i will tempoarly add 8 to level 7 spells in ring of gaxx and see if that will help.
Anyway, after this run i will also make a shaman kit.
I will do this:
- Add a level 3 spell: Tornado for indoor use. It will act like chain Lightning Projectile but look like a tornado and deal physical damage, for indoor use.
- I will add progression on the level 2 cold spell. (1d2 each 2 or 3 lvls)
- I will add a level 7 cast level from level 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 and a level 1-7 at level 34 and 40.
- And i will make progression on:
* insect plague(1-2-4 damage)
* Creeping doom (2-4-8 damage)
I did several mistakes, if anyone play shaman start as Half orc, neutral evil if u want to use the skin leather, neutral good if u want azuredge. And make sure u have violet potion ready for tome of strenght in candlekeep. You need 25 str to break that open.
This way ur shaman will have 20str/19dex/20conc.
Easy 25/25/25 with bhaalpower.
My spellchoices has been perfect with exception of me maby choosing nature beuty a little late.
Im pretty sure you can solo in lob with this true the entire thing Even with xp cap.
I also think shamans can be nearly immune to most:
Belt with 25% magic reduction and 50% missle reduction.
Helm of the rock: 25% acid, fire, Lightning res
Leather armor: 15% acid, fire, Lightning, cold
Staff 10% elemental res
Armor of faith (15% all)
Hla albility (50% physics)
Hla albility immune to all death/stone/slay/kill/dust/imprisoment stuff + heals full of 10% HP.
Lightning res spell(100%)
Cold/fire spell (50% each)
Lightning res spell (100%)
Scroll of acid res (50%)
Stoneskin
Missle reflection spell.(will need to use vs fallen bow devs in final battle, did not work vs beholders, but those are easy to blind with nature beuty and you and ur sircumlation can rain down fire on them.)
I think i need to use all those in combi with potion of power, oil of speed, sircularium helm, Wands of heaven, Improved haste from item, summons from items, and such.
To win bgee will be hard with xp cap solo in tob.
But you can cheeze Max level at once, and skip all unrelevant. Cursed scroll of ailment can kill any strong boss. Nymphs and call of Lightning.
You can cheeze durlags tower with the traps and sneak past etc for that +3 sling. But i think its better to focus on bow/knife/staff/single wep first, then you basicly pick sling last.
Once in bg2ee xp ammounts explode and you have a viable cap. So here the nymphs will easy Get you out of cage. Hold monster and hold person which nymphs has can stun pretty much all in that cave. Starting neutral good will make azuredge ur companion vs undeads, staff of rhyn and sircumlation helm and that druidic staff will help you a lot for cleaning out amn! You will quickly Get fire elementals, stoneskin, insect plague and invisibility. Its also very helpfull with magic res skill.
Nice collection of runs! 👍
I agree
I was just inside watchers keep in legacy of bhaal, solo. Have not Even travelled with boat yet. But im very high level.
Level1: easy
Level2: easy
Level3: the maze level is inzanly hard for solo casters, 2 x no-magic zones and 1 x wild magic zone. Yes. It took like 3 hours but this is one of the few places i actually needed the shaman dance. I got the hang of it in the end, using spider figurine to trick one monster at the time, start the shaman dance and with some luck you have spirits up before spider dies. Then its an ethernal fight ongoing and hopefully you win in the end.
When im not nerfed by such zones i easy wipes hordes of demons. With exception of one.
When you you come into a portal and there is a slayerlike hasted demon, imps, 2-3 more demons and loads of monsters instantly rush me within 1 second upon landing there. But i will come back with staff from suldanesar, throw up those mounds monsters to give me time to Get my sircumlarium up and rain hellfire down on them with level 7 spells! Maby i could cheeze them somehow now stacking potions, spells and such, but i think i need those mounds. Its like 20 monsters cornering me within 1 second xD
Point beeing, even in places where ur magic is constantly nerfed/removed and dispelled it can fight on!
And now im sitting here wondering if that survive all skill, timed correct cast can make you survive slayerform somehow.
I can Get 75% magic damage reduction with belt + armor of faith. I have ring of gax and 20conc and can Get more conc via deck of many things, lums machine etc so i repl fast and have healing spells. So i can rep away all small damage, and then use spiritual hla spell to survive the final blow.
In that case, its maby a way to cheeze to save spells or whatever. And since from level 3x all you can spend points on is spiritual resist hla which give you 50% physical reduction that slayed can be quite tanky
Ideally i would like a monk permanent slayer form though
Potion of magic res (the one with included saving throws)
Armor of faith
Belt of inner interier
I casted the spell as well to avoid death, and i drank a potion of power, but dont think that was neccesary.
I took zero damage from slayer form.
So this should be possible for paladins and clerics etc as well.