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Why was the Gorion cutscene changed?

Question2Question2 Member Posts: 74
in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
In the original, the cutscene has Gorion put more of a fight and cast multiple spells on Sarevok.

In the EE version, the cutscene has Gorion pretty much ignore Sarevok before dying. And I think he casts flame strike on one of the ogres somehow despite being a mage?

Comments

  • Question2Question2 Member Posts: 74
    In the original, he quickly takes out the ogres with lightning bolts, neutralizes Tamoko with sleep or something that makes her fall down and spams spells on Sarevok. Thats a lot better than the new version.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Question2 said:

    In the original, he quickly takes out the ogres with lightning bolts, neutralizes Tamoko with sleep or something that makes her fall down and spams spells on Sarevok. Thats a lot better than the new version.

    No, he never did anything to Tamoko. He happily let her cast away. He still lightning bolts the ogres too.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,313
    I haven't tested it properly, but my initial assumption from viewing it is they've also tried to avoid the PC being killed as a result the cutscene. That was fairly easy to do in the previous version where an archer was shooting at you - if you quit out of the cutscene at the wrong moment the arrows fired would carry on in real time and could kill you.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,722
    sarevok57 said:

    Grond0 said:

    I haven't tested it properly, but my initial assumption from viewing it is they've also tried to avoid the PC being killed as a result the cutscene. That was fairly easy to do in the previous version where an archer was shooting at you - if you quit out of the cutscene at the wrong moment the arrows fired would carry on in real time and could kill you.

    they actually can still do so now, if you spam the ESC button to skip all the cutscenes, and if that archer arrow doesnt hit you in the cut scene if it got fired, it will attack roll you after the cutscene is done, and it can do some killer damage on insane difficulty, i made a 6 HP sorcerer once, spammed all the cutscenes and watch the arrow be-line towards me and luckily he rolled a 1 so it missed, also made a cleric/mage as well once, and he didnt miss that time and i died, pretty humorous but still dead
    Shouldn't happen in the 2.5 patch.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    JuliusBorisov said:

    sarevok57 said:

    Grond0 said:

    I haven't tested it properly, but my initial assumption from viewing it is they've also tried to avoid the PC being killed as a result the cutscene. That was fairly easy to do in the previous version where an archer was shooting at you - if you quit out of the cutscene at the wrong moment the arrows fired would carry on in real time and could kill you.

    they actually can still do so now, if you spam the ESC button to skip all the cutscenes, and if that archer arrow doesnt hit you in the cut scene if it got fired, it will attack roll you after the cutscene is done, and it can do some killer damage on insane difficulty, i made a 6 HP sorcerer once, spammed all the cutscenes and watch the arrow be-line towards me and luckily he rolled a 1 so it missed, also made a cleric/mage as well once, and he didnt miss that time and i died, pretty humorous but still dead
    Shouldn't happen in the 2.5 patch.
    i just tried around 20 times and so far it seems that the 2.5 patch makes it so, although i couldn't perfectly time the missile firing and then skip the cut scene because it was real damn hard
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  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,367
    edited August 2018
    ThacoBell said:

    I also LOVE the implication this new intro creates. Without Tamoko, Sarevok couldn't TOUCH Gorion. Its very probable that Gorion either would have killed Sarevok, or would have forced him away, letting Gorion link back up with charname. This would dramatically change the whole series.

    Nope, even if the dispel magic fails (and it can), his Deathbringer Assault will go straight through Mirror Image, Stoneskin, and PfMW.
    Cutscenes are made for cheating.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @kjeron For story reasons, the dispel magic is forced. If the fight happened without scripting, dispel magic can fail and Gorion will still be protected. Is BG1 Sarevok even coded with Deathbringer assault? I don't recal it going mirror images and stoneskins in ToB when I use it either. My analysis stands.
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,367
    @Thacobell It's not forced, it actually can fail during the cutscene.
    The Deathbringer Assault used in the cutscene however is just scripted damage and visual effects, he doesn't actually make any attacks, which is why it doesn't matter what defenses Gorion has up.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    kjeron said:

    @Thacobell It's not forced, it actually can fail during the cutscene.
    The Deathbringer Assault used in the cutscene however is just scripted damage and visual effects, he doesn't actually make any attacks, which is why it doesn't matter what defenses Gorion has up.

    Still doesn't debunk my earlier statement. Its scripted for the cutscene and story purposes. In an actual fight, Sarevok likely would not be able to defeat Gorion without Tamoko. He is too well prepared. Also, it IS forced. Notice how even if the dispel fails, Gorion's protections go away. Sometimes in the cutscene, the globe does not form around Tamoko, but she will stand still and do nothing anyway.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    ThacoBell said:

    kjeron said:

    @Thacobell It's not forced, it actually can fail during the cutscene.
    The Deathbringer Assault used in the cutscene however is just scripted damage and visual effects, he doesn't actually make any attacks, which is why it doesn't matter what defenses Gorion has up.

    Still doesn't debunk my earlier statement. Its scripted for the cutscene and story purposes. In an actual fight, Sarevok likely would not be able to defeat Gorion without Tamoko. He is too well prepared. Also, it IS forced. Notice how even if the dispel fails, Gorion's protections go away. Sometimes in the cutscene, the globe does not form around Tamoko, but she will stand still and do nothing anyway.
    well apparently Sarevok at this point in time has 504 HP so if Sarevok could outlast Gorion's spell damage then Sarevok would have a shot, although Sarevok's saves at this point in time aren't all that great so if Gorion used a disintegrate or flesh to stone spell on Sarevok, good chance Sarevok would lose
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    l
    sarevok57 said:

    ThacoBell said:

    kjeron said:

    @Thacobell It's not forced, it actually can fail during the cutscene.
    The Deathbringer Assault used in the cutscene however is just scripted damage and visual effects, he doesn't actually make any attacks, which is why it doesn't matter what defenses Gorion has up.

    Still doesn't debunk my earlier statement. Its scripted for the cutscene and story purposes. In an actual fight, Sarevok likely would not be able to defeat Gorion without Tamoko. He is too well prepared. Also, it IS forced. Notice how even if the dispel fails, Gorion's protections go away. Sometimes in the cutscene, the globe does not form around Tamoko, but she will stand still and do nothing anyway.
    well apparently Sarevok at this point in time has 504 HP so if Sarevok could outlast Gorion's spell damage then Sarevok would have a shot, although Sarevok's saves at this point in time aren't all that great so if Gorion used a disintegrate or flesh to stone spell on Sarevok, good chance Sarevok would lose
    Don't forget, that before the game was patched the first time, Gorion COULD kill Sarevok. It would crash the game, but it was possible. And this was the original version that only used up to 3rd level spells.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    ThacoBell said:

    l

    sarevok57 said:

    ThacoBell said:

    kjeron said:

    @Thacobell It's not forced, it actually can fail during the cutscene.
    The Deathbringer Assault used in the cutscene however is just scripted damage and visual effects, he doesn't actually make any attacks, which is why it doesn't matter what defenses Gorion has up.

    Still doesn't debunk my earlier statement. Its scripted for the cutscene and story purposes. In an actual fight, Sarevok likely would not be able to defeat Gorion without Tamoko. He is too well prepared. Also, it IS forced. Notice how even if the dispel fails, Gorion's protections go away. Sometimes in the cutscene, the globe does not form around Tamoko, but she will stand still and do nothing anyway.
    well apparently Sarevok at this point in time has 504 HP so if Sarevok could outlast Gorion's spell damage then Sarevok would have a shot, although Sarevok's saves at this point in time aren't all that great so if Gorion used a disintegrate or flesh to stone spell on Sarevok, good chance Sarevok would lose
    Don't forget, that before the game was patched the first time, Gorion COULD kill Sarevok. It would crash the game, but it was possible. And this was the original version that only used up to 3rd level spells.
    the EE version or the original version?
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @sarevok57 the original. Gorion had half the spellbook he does now, and was able to kill Sarevok before extra scripting was added to that ambush.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    ThacoBell said:

    @sarevok57 the original. Gorion had half the spellbook he does now, and was able to kill Sarevok before extra scripting was added to that ambush.

    hmm weird, i've never seen Gorion win the fight against Sarevok back in the original days, although one of my favourite parts about the original fight is when gorion would just magical die in Sarevok's mid sword swing because he was scripted to die after a certain time, ah good times
  • xizorxizor Member Posts: 89
    ThacoBell said:

    Don't forget, that before the game was patched the first time, Gorion COULD kill Sarevok.

    I'd like to see a mod that continues the story after that. :smiley:

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    sarevok57 said:

    ThacoBell said:

    @sarevok57 the original. Gorion had half the spellbook he does now, and was able to kill Sarevok before extra scripting was added to that ambush.

    hmm weird, i've never seen Gorion win the fight against Sarevok back in the original days, although one of my favourite parts about the original fight is when gorion would just magical die in Sarevok's mid sword swing because he was scripted to die after a certain time, ah good times
    That scripting is what was added in the first official patch. If Gorion made max rolls on every spell cast, he would kill Sarevok, and the game would lock up. The cutscene would never end, because the next bit was only triggered by Gorion's death.
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