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The LoB + SCS Solo Challenge and the Tales of IWDification

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  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 187
    Arno wrote: »
    Mr_Salty wrote: »
    @Arno u are missing 1 TOGL in my fight against sarevok i used up all 5!

    Mmm, what is TOGL? :o

    Necklace The One Gift Lost

  • ArnoArno Member Posts: 22
    I have four. I hope it will be enough. Thank you Mr_Salty :)

    Mr_Salty
  • ArnoArno Member Posts: 22
    Mmm, I have killed Sarevok and his friends but the game doesn't end.

    Anyone knows why?
    x4f729mt297z.bmp

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,249
    @Arno the trigger to transfer doesn't always work with SCS installed. Try consoling to the Undercity area and then re-entering the temple - that works for me.

    ArnosemiticgodStummvonBordwehrHarpagornis
  • ArnoArno Member Posts: 22
    It worked. Thank you Grond0!

    Grond0Harpagornis
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,198
    semiticgod wrote: »
    @histamiini: How recent are your findings related to Potions of Genius stacking? My non-LoB Archer run made extensive use of them and successfully avoided mind flayer INT drain in BG2 using them (she would get hit but her displayed INT would remain at 25), and that was a v2.5 run.
    I only assumed, as the description has changed, or I don't remember it being described as to max 25 before 2.5. So your experience is probably correct.

    As Chateau Irenicus, Hide in Shadows helps to activate the Sewage Golem and after you get the Oil of Speed from Otyugh room it's easier to run away. I used it as soon as I got it, which produced slight problem when I looted the key out of the level. Because the chest is poison trapped, I had to use almost all healing potions to stop it. Mephits is pretty easily lured to the previus room as they follow pretty fast, Haste helps here too. And even if you fail the first time, you can try again. After that I would just escape with Hide in Shadows. Here's some resources in the early rooms you at least need to visit. Picking up the healing potions is advisable.

    Jailkeep Golem Room
    3x Healing Potion

    Sewage Golem Room
    3x Extra Healing Potion
    1x Healing Potion

    Rielev Room
    2x Extra Healing Potion
    Activation Stone

    Otyugh Room
    2x Healing Potion
    1x Oil of Speed

    As Gauth XP-loop, it's safe with Shield of Balduran if you've enough AC, which comes from normal gear I think. Resting spawns two Gauths, nothing else. If you're too weak to deal them, you can safely leave and come back when it's more viable.

    HarpagornissemiticgodStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,198
    edited April 14
    @Harpagornis These are the Champion's Strength scrolls that I know, never seen any priests selling them.

    1x Durlag's Tower, warder's level loot
    1x Durlag's Tower, chessboard king
    10x Belegarm

    Scrolls are cast in various levels I think, at least checking these:

    BG1 Champion's Strength level 9
    BG1 Skull Trap level 6

    BG2 Champion's Strength level 10
    BG2 Skull Trap level 10

    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    Thanks for the infos @histamiini - should help if i can finally decide which combo to play. ;)

    The Gauth XP loop is supersafe with Baldurans Shield. Armor is not needed if you use something like Everards Sling as they never ever try to close the distance (at least in pre 2.5). Also worth to remember: If you hit the rest button fast enough you can summon several Gauth duos before combat will start. I remember getting 12 Gauths once even though four or six is more likely - with some luck. ;)

    histamiiniStummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,381
    edited April 14
    Technically a Champion's Strength scroll should be cast at level 6, but the minimum level for the spell is at level 9, since it's a level 5 spell and only level 9+ casters can cast it. Like a lot of higher-level scrolls, lower-level versions of the spell were never coded (there's no 2d6 Fireball spell for level 2 casters) and so the minimum duration of Champion's Strength is 27 rounds, as if the caster is level 9. But for purposes of Dispel Magic, a Champion's Strength scroll has a caster level of 6.

    Which is actually a pretty meaningless detail, considering both of them will get instantly dispelled in LoB mode by a Dispel Magic from any spellcaster I know of. So, yeah. It's basically level 9.

    histamiiniGrond0StummvonBordwehr
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 187
    Thanks for the infos @histamiini - should help if i can finally decide which combo to play. ;)

    The Gauth XP loop is supersafe with Baldurans Shield. Armor is not needed if you use something like Everards Sling as they never ever try to close the distance (at least in pre 2.5). Also worth to remember: If you hit the rest button fast enough you can summon several Gauth duos before combat will start. I remember getting 12 Gauths once even though four or six is more likely - with some luck. ;)

    where is this xp loop u guys talking about ?? so far i only know red dragon :hushed:

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,381
    @Mr_Salty: In the beholder hive area of the Unseeing Eye quest (not the beholder hive from the Underdark), you can spawn Gauths by resting in the area. Unlike the bigger beholders in SCS, Gauths can't steal the Shield of Balduran or Cloak of Mirroring from you, so they're forced to use their melee attacks, which are terrible. They're worth 9,000 XP apiece, so they're a safe and reasonably quick source of XP if you can deal decent damage with a single-handed weapon or have some high-MR summons.

    histamiiniStummvonBordwehrMr_Salty
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,246
    Arno wrote: »
    Mr_Salty wrote: »
    @Arno u are missing 1 TOGL in my fight against sarevok i used up all 5!

    Mmm, what is TOGL? :o

    The One Gift Lost.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,381
    @histamiini @Harpagornis: I'm about to deal with Belhifet, but I have a problem. I have 11 Champion's Strength scrolls, and I'll need to have 5 active in order to hit -25 THAC0 and get guaranteed hits with my main hand and near-guaranteed hits with my off hand weapon... but when exactly should I use them? I'm concerned about mismanaging the fights in the elevator, since there are three of them and an Archer isn't very efficient in melee combat.

    I'm also concerned about the Potions of Heroism and their duration. I'd have -10 THAC0 against demons normally and can deal 80 damage against some demons and 60 against the tougher ones, which amounts to 4 rounds to kill each one. If each of the 3 fights has 3 demons who take 4 rounds to kill, that's 36 rounds of combat, plus a bunch of rounds in between. Potions of Heroism only last 100 rounds, and I'm worried that a miscalculation or any problems against Belhifet will result in my Archer's HP dropping back down to ~100 in the middle of tanking.

    @histamiini: In your Archer run, did you drink all those Potions of Heroism right before you boarded the elevator? When did you use those Champion's Strength scrolls?

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,381
    I've just checked and it seems I only have 13 Potions of Heroism and 16 Potions of Power for Belhifet. It's too late to go back; I can't leave the Dragonspear Castle grounds. I can hit 297 HP with all our Potions of Heroism, with another +25 HP per Potion of Power. Is that going to be enough with bonus damage disabled?

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,198
    edited April 14
    @semiticgod The lift enemies aren't that bad, my Archer hacked them with melee, having Stone Ally as decoy if I remember correctly. Although I had * in Flails. You could take one Champions Strength in the beginning to speed up things. Potion of Heroism is 2 hours, which should be enough for tank tactic from the beginning. Lift should take around 50 rounds, depending how much you spend Champions' Strength scrolls. But there's no reason to hp buff before boarding as you can do it as you go. If you get ahead killing enemies, you can just stop hitting them. As of the last timing, before killing last enemy you should refresh 1 hour buffs, after the last battle is done, there's about 4 or 5 rounds to belhifets dispel what you can use, so maybe 3x Champions Strengths, Violet and Fortitude. My hunch is 300 hp + Power Potions should be enough. Here was my order of things:

    Serafina vs. Belhifet

    2x PfF, 2x PfC, 2x PfE, 2x PfA, 8x Mind Focus, PfP, Defense, 2x Invul, Power, Speed, Clarity, 2x Champion's Strength, Storm and started hacking the lift enemies with Martyr's Morningstar and Glimmer of Hope, as I had * in flails. First wave 7x Heroism, second 18x Heroism, third wave 10x Heroism. I stalled killing the last enemy so that I could refresh my one hour buffs. Lastly I used 8x Champion's Strength, Violet and Fortitude for no less than -36 Thac0.

    Good luck!

    semiticgodHarpagornisGrond0StummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,381
    histamiini wrote: »
    As of the last timing, before killing last enemy you should refresh 1 hour buffs, after the last battle is done, there's about 4 or 5 rounds to belhifets dispel what you can use, so maybe 3x Champions Strengths, Violet and Fortitude.
    What do you mean about Belhifet's Dispel Magic? Will I not be able to avoid it normally?

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,198
    edited April 14
    @semiticgod You can. I just meant dispel as end of free buff rounds, because you can't melee Belhifet before the dispel hit Caelar, and after it's go time.

    Harpagornissemiticgod
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,381
    The run has ended in failure, against my expectations and my hopes. We chose the wrong dialog option and caused Thrix to leave before posing the riddle we needed to get a +3 longsword with 1d4 acid damage, forcing us to use a +3 shortsword instead and use the Root of the Problem in the off hand. In the elevator, we buffed with everything and some of our Champion's Strength scrolls, but we let the last Abishai live long enough for us to use our remaining Champion's Strength scrolls. Only then did we kill it, drink the Violet Potion, and then drink a Potion of Fortitude before Belhifet.

    We spammed summoning items to distract the demons while we used the Void-Tipped Arrows to save Durlag's Goblet charges for later. Caelar died early (there's just way too much damage going around to keep her alive, even with Greater Restoration scrolls) and we switched to tanking in a corner. Belhifet was at 166 HP when our Champion's Strength scrolls wore off, leaving us with terrible THAC0. We needed high rolls to hit Belhifet, and we didn't get them.

    Then our Potions of Heroism started to wear off, and as our HP grew thinner, we had to drink from Durlag's Goblet more often, until it started taking time away from our APR. We really did need more Potions of Heroism to survive.

    I'll post a Youtube video of the fight for you guys today (the latter portion of the video will be black; that's an error), but I don't plan on keeping it on my account indefinitely; I'll remove it later on.

    HarpagornishistamiiniMr_Salty
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,381
    edited April 15
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,381
    Also, some math has found that the Staff of Striking is an excellent alternative to other weapons. It won't be enough to kill Belhifet entirely, but its 25 charges will cut through the majority of his HP, and Aule's Staff is easily available as a backup weapon for those who take pips in staffs. Pity that you have to go deeper into Durlag's Tower to get it.

    histamiiniMr_Salty
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,381
    I did a test run and it seems the best solution is to let Caelar die, drink a Potion of Invisibility, lead Belhifet into a corner, and start tanking right off the bat. Even then, though, the issue looks dicey unless the timing of your Champion's Strength scrolls is really excellent. My scrolls wore off when Belhifet was at low HP, and since I needed high rolls to land hits, it's entirely possible for bad luck to change victory to defeat.

    I tried again with better timing, using the scrolls right at the end, and encountered a new problem: my Archer was getting hit so many times that it was preventing us from attacking. I used auto-pause on round end to count things out and found that my Archer never got their full 3 APR; they only got 2 attacks per round, and in the majority of cases, they got no attacks per round.

    When I hit the other demons with CTRL-Y, I got slightly more than 1 attack per round (I should have 3 APR, but maybe Haste shortens the round counter to 3 seconds and therefore 1.5 APR?), with very few missed rounds. I think what's happening is that the hitstun is interrupting our attack animations so often that we can't actually make attack rolls.

    I can't seem to get Belhifet below about 240 HP. Even if I use a Potion of Invisibility to gradually escape getting boxed in so I can re-use some Champion's Strength scrolls I created via console, I still don't seem to make much progress. In fact, in my last test, my Potions of Invulnerability ran out and I failed a save against Hold Person. The thing is, drinking another Potion of Invulnerability isn't quite gonna cut it, because the Potions of Heroism were going to expire soon after.

    So my Archer is dealing about half the projected damage, which means the window for killing Belhifet is extended from maybe 20 rounds to maybe 40 rounds, well outside the duration of Champion's Strength scrolls and also intruding on the durations of other critical buffs--including, notably, Potions of Power.

    @histamiini: Was your Archer run on the latest update with the -11 AC bonus? How exactly did you function in this fight? Because my Archer appears to be stuck at 1 APR when I'm supposed to have 3 APR, and even when I use Champion's Strength scrolls mere seconds before the final elevator fight ends, they run out well before Belhifet is dead.

    StummvonBordwehrHarpagornishistamiiniMr_Salty
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,381
    All right, I finally got it to work. As an Archer, you need 10 Champion's Strength scrolls, and you need to use 5 of them right before you kill the last enemy on the elevator. You'll also need a +3 weapon you're proficient with, and over 400 HP fully buffed, ideally 500. You start tanking Belhifet as soon as possible (Caelar is irrelevant), spam Durlag's Goblet, and when you notice your THAC0 starts dropping off, down a Potion of Invisibility when you can. Use the downtime to:

    1. Drink a Potion of Invulnerability
    2. Drink a Potion of Clarity
    3. Drink an Oil of Speed
    4. Use 5 Champion's Strength scrolls
    5. Drink a Potion of Storm Giant Strength

    With Belhifet and maybe some Erinyes attacking you, you can probably use two items before you're forced to use Durlag's Goblet again, and if you escape the box of demons, you can do more. Once everything is back in place, start tanking again and you should just barely be able to kill him.

    Since Potions of Power only last 40 rounds and it takes a whole new round to drink a new one, I don't think Potions of Power are going to be helpful except as add-ons during rounds when you don't have anything better to do with your aura. So, you should have enough Potions of Heroism to get your HP to 500, and personally, I think it's better to drink those potions at the top of the elevator right before Belhifet. Potions of Heroism are great for tanking the elevator enemies, but you'll want the 500 HP potions saved for last.

    The hitstun from enemies will blunt the damage you can do, but if you do two tanking sessions, you can just barely overcome that handicap.

    Single-classed fighters will need a lot more Potions of Heroism if they want to survive, because they're not going to hit -20 THAC0 without Champion's Strength scrolls. Rangers and paladins can handle it. While paladins won't have the racial enemy bonus unless they're Cavaliers, they'll be able to reach specialization in a melee weapon, which means they get another +2 damage and +1 APR over Archers. Barring a new exploit, single-classed thieves are doomed. Monks might be doomed; there aren't enough Champion's Strength scrolls to compensate for their terrible APR and THAC0 (they can dual-wield, but they can't take any pips in dual-wielding).

    StummvonBordwehrHarpagornishistamiini
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,198
    edited April 15
    @semiticgod Sad to see your guy fall. Don't know if added fps affects that, but I've also suspected that if you don't have enough AC, your own attacks will get cancelled somewhat. That's probably why my runs have always lasted longer than projected average. My Archer run is with the -11 AC bonus and latest LoB, I used Sling +3 with Bullet of Darkness, and had ** with Slings, so 3 apr with +4 Shield off Hand. Don't know if ranged differs from melee in possibility of interrupted attacks. Maybe you could have saved some Arrows of Detonation to the end, they saved my ass. I see you spent them some in Dragonspear Castle attacks and Avernus. In SoD you only have to kill or make surrender:

    Korlasz (surrender)
    Ziatar
    Akanna
    Bridgefort Mage (interrupt)
    Crusader Attacks
    Ashatiel
    Lift Demons
    Belhifet
    Hephernaan

    Everything else is voluntary I think. In Avernus you can run straight to Trixx, and he should ask the riddle pretty quickly after the introduction dialogue ends. And the door should open, but almost always it's still unusable, you need to exit level be back again to make the door work. Exit level also makes Trixx ask his riddle question if he doesn't ask it straight away.

    The corner tactic is nice addition, never thought about it in this fight.

    StummvonBordwehrMr_SaltyHarpagornissemiticgod
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 187
    edited April 15
    @semiticgod how u get that advanced AI script in the list ? i dont have that at all xd

    Edit: why u fight the beginning monsters on your video? isnt it just better to run all the way to strix talk to him > run away invis come back and talk for the weapon ? no fighting involved ....

    Edit 2: that fear potion came in just a bit late! im enjoying your video so far mate^^

    Edit 3: how is your Caelar Dying ? mine always starts out with 10 hp and just sticks at 1hp while under attack hmm

    Edit 4: finished watching, u almost made it man! was it a no reload ? if not just keep at it im sure u can do it!!! :wink: good video!

    Post edited by Mr_Salty on
    Harpagornis
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 187
    semiticgod wrote: »
    Also, some math has found that the Staff of Striking is an excellent alternative to other weapons. It won't be enough to kill Belhifet entirely, but its 25 charges will cut through the majority of his HP, and Aule's Staff is easily available as a backup weapon for those who take pips in staffs. Pity that you have to go deeper into Durlag's Tower to get it.

    Durlag's tower is not realy hard though well worth it!

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,198
    Serafina Throne of Bhaal

    Doing the first pit in ToB, now I know why the Balors attacked Irenicus in Hell. They are somewhat broken in my current installation. They attack everyone they see, which I first thought would make the pit easier to handle. However they also Gate enemies in time and again, so it's actually never ending loop. Had to use Farsight to time my attack so that there wasn't much enemies around. After that I mobbed the 5 Gambions with 5 apr sling, which was a wonderfully efficient method against these Thac0 thieves.

    2smcelut15j9.png
    3gar55um4um1.png
    73cx61yj18i9.png
    x50f1m9obeo5.png
    5um6vlbu2c1c.png

    Second and third pits were mostly the same, nothing too hard, additionally petrified one Marilith.

    2mw3lamfo2si.png
    y249we0upi9w.png
    f7qh53ygiahl.png

    Serafina vs. Melissan

    My plan was to use Sarevok as a tank for my Called Shots against Melissan. First lured Sarevok top most pit and charmed him with Control Circlet. Then hit Abazigal with PfM and lured him and Gromnir under invisibility to the bottom right pit, and left them there. Started hitting Illasera, but she escaped downwards, and I had to find her, which activated Abazigal. No worry as I managed to hack her pretty quickly.

    hgnq1c3as3vn.png
    drywqec9w3zj.png
    0rmtqtcd1g1y.png

    Before Mellissan spawned I hit Focus against Time Stop, then Energy Blades. Soon Melissan started hitting Sarevok, and I used this to dispel her Absolute Immunity with the Rift Device. When I started hitting her with first round Called Shot, she spawned couple Fallen Solars, which was bad because they could force dispel you.

    kt31qrijrokc.png
    6yjfu43kwx3j.png
    2p7ggtlunpid.png

    Managed to hit double Called Shot, but then this happened.

    kd6f942jtj67.png

    Omg was that close one, Melissan dead and I was doing my victory dance. Except it wasn't the end, as the final script never happened. I was completely frozen as I thought she could be killed before Big 6 from a stat drain? And without doing any buffs, soon this happened.

    jfsf2u5v1l5m.png

    Boom, dead, the end. And now I'm sad.

    @semiticgod Is this how it should work? With your experience with Called Shot, did you kill all the Big 6 before Melissan was dead?

    StummvonBordwehrHarpagornisMr_Saltysemiticgod
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    edited April 15
    That was... unexpected @histamiini as i already started writing down the "Hall of Fame" entry for Serafina... :(

    However the Archer/Cleric combo looks like a real powerhouse regarding 2.5 being on one level with Archer/Mage - no?

    In the meanwhile i played the most interesting game in BG: Rolling ability scores. I just had forgotten how hard it is to roll a decent number for Human Mages. After nearly half an hour i hit the 90 ten times but that seemed to be the end. Damn it. Only after try number 1349 suddenly a 93 appeared on the screen - hah! :D

    Fey the Human Enchanter will dual class to Fighter at level 3 to challenge one of the most promising combos of the past with 2.5 - this should get interesting. Lets hope time is with us in the next days (weeks). ;)

    P.S. Using the Print button only produces black screens now - whats that? ^^

    histamiiniStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,198
    edited April 15
    @Harpagornis Yeah, I had my mouth open and aimlessly just ran away from enemies, until the charm hit. But it's my inexperience with this method, never truly testing it out. It just felt so easy and straightforward, that something was bound to happen. Melissan usually surprises you when you think you've figured her out.

    As of 21Archer->Cleric, I would atm say it's the most powerful character I've played. It has the keys to every fight really, and two of the best killers, Called Shot Energy Blades, and Critical Strike Harm. Nevermind the best survival buffs, and army of summons.

    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehrMr_Salty
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,381
    @histamiini: I am genuinely confused about this charm effect. To my knowledge, the only charm spells in this fight would be from a Succubus, and I don't see any on your screen (I thought they were only present in the pool fights). Plus, if you character is female, there is no -10 save penalty for those charm effects, so if you had a save vs. spell of 1 or perhaps -1, Serafina should have resisted it... though that's not really a given for a human character. I suppose another enemy might have done it, but I don't know who.

    The thing with my Archer/Mage was that I had the Better Stat Drain mod installed, which essentially replaces stat drain kills with unblockable magic damage so immortal characters get reduced to 1 HP and can deliver their dialogs. Melissan's death was distinct from yours in this case; it did not involve real stat drain. And my non-LoB Archer run killed her with pure damage. In a separate run, I killed Melissan with unmodded stat drain using a mod-introduced sword that drained CHA, but I only did so after the Five were dead.

    So I haven't seen STR drain work in exactly the same circumstances as in your run. But you did kill Melissan, and I'm fairly certain the Solar would have arrived soon after (though I think you need to go over and talk to the Solar manually; the dialog doesn't start on its own if Melissan dies to stat drain). I'm pretty sure stat drain can indeed kill Melissan even if the Five are intact, so the only reason you didn't get the ending scene was because of that charm at the very end.

    But how far apart in time were those last two screenshots? Because I don't think the Solar takes very long to appear on the screen after Melissan dies, and if there was a long time gap, there's a chance the Solar might not have appeared at all--in which case unmodded stat drain on Melissan would produce a game-breaking bug if the Five were not dead.

    I feel bad for suggesting using STR drain on Melissan, because it's possible this fight would have gone differently if the Five were dead. I'm sorry if I've given you any inaccurate information about the game; I really am.

    Regardless, this run is definitely worth an entry on @Harpagornis' first post, and more than worthy of an Honorable Mention in the "Maybe this time" thread. Give me an entry and I'll add it to the Honorable Mentions section in the main no-reload thread.

    StummvonBordwehrhistamiini
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    I added Serafina to the Hall of Fames despite being killed on the first try under mysterious circumstances @histamiini as i am sure you will take her down soon for real - no? ;)

    Fey in the meanwhile used her Fairy Dragon and a charmed Wolf to kill Shoal before starting the usual XP loop. With max level and invisibility next targets will be Dushai, pushing Reputation and getting some Wands. There is a lot of fun waiting for us... :D

    StummvonBordwehrhistamiini
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